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PRODUCTION SUPPORT FOR THIS EPISODE OF "InFOCUS" IS
EPISODE OF "InFOCUS" IS PROVIDED BY...
PROVIDED BY... HOOSIER ENERGY PROVIDING
HOOSIER ENERGY PROVIDING ELECTRICITY TO CENTRAL AND
ELECTRICITY TO CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN INDIANA ELECTRIC
SOUTHERN INDIANA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES AND THEIR MEMBER
COOPERATIVES AND THEIR MEMBER CUSTOMERS.
CUSTOMERS. INFORMATION AT HEPN.COM.
INFORMATION AT HEPN.COM. AND BY WTIU MEMBERS.
AND BY WTIU MEMBERS. THANK YOU.
>> THE NUMBER OF WOMEN IN INDIANA PRISONS HAS RISEN
INDIANA PRISONS HAS RISEN SUBSTANTIALLY OVER THE
SUBSTANTIALLY OVER THE PAST DECADE.
PAST DECADE. AND MANY OF THOSE
AND MANY OF THOSE WOMEN ARE ALSO MOTHERS.
WOMEN ARE ALSO MOTHERS. THAT PRESENTS SOME UNIQUE
THAT PRESENTS SOME UNIQUE SITUATIONS MEN'S FACILITIES DO
SITUATIONS MEN'S FACILITIES DO NOT FACE.
NOT FACE. WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THAT
WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THAT MEANS FOR THE PRISONS THAT
MEANS FOR THE PRISONS THAT HOUSE THE WOMEN AND HOW IT
HOUSE THE WOMEN AND HOW IT AFFECTS THEIR LIVES AS THEY TRY
AFFECTS THEIR LIVES AS THEY TRY TO REINTEGRATE INTO SOCIETY.
TO REINTEGRATE INTO SOCIETY. ON THIS EPISODE, WE PUT WOMEN IN
ON THIS EPISODE, WE PUT WOMEN IN PRISON InFocus.
>> THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF InFocus.
THIS EDITION OF InFocus. I'M STAN JASTRZEBSKI.
I'M STAN JASTRZEBSKI. THE NUMBER OF WOMEN IN INDIANA
THE NUMBER OF WOMEN IN INDIANA PRISONS HAS INCREASED 50% IN
PRISONS HAS INCREASED 50% IN THE PAST DECADE, LARGELY BECAUSE
THE PAST DECADE, LARGELY BECAUSE OF DRUG-RELATED CHARGES.
OF DRUG-RELATED CHARGES. AS WTIU'S GRETCHEN FRAZEE
AS WTIU'S GRETCHEN FRAZEE REPORTS, THAT RISE MEANS PRISON
REPORTS, THAT RISE MEANS PRISON AND REHABILITATION FACILITIES
AND REHABILITATION FACILITIES ARE BEING FORCED TO ADAPT TO
ARE BEING FORCED TO ADAPT TO THE HIGHER NUMBER OF FEMALE
THE HIGHER NUMBER OF FEMALE INMATES.
>> MORE THAN 500 WOMEN OF ALL AGES ARE IN KAWRS RAID AT THE
AGES ARE IN KAWRS RAID AT THE INDIANA WOMEN'S PRISON IN
INDIANA WOMEN'S PRISON IN INDIANAPOLIS, BUT THEY AREN'T
INDIANAPOLIS, BUT THEY AREN'T JUST SITTING AROUND WAITING TO
JUST SITTING AROUND WAITING TO GET OUT.
GET OUT. THEY TAKE CLASSES, TRAIN ANIMALS
THEY TAKE CLASSES, TRAIN ANIMALS AND SEW ITEMS DONATED TO
AND SEW ITEMS DONATED TO NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS TP AT
NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS TP AT THE PRISON THERE IS EVEN A
THE PRISON THERE IS EVEN A NURSERY FOR WOMEN WHO HAVE
NURSERY FOR WOMEN WHO HAVE CHILDREN LESS THAN 18 MONTHS
CHILDREN LESS THAN 18 MONTHS OLD.
OLD. THAT'S PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT
THAT'S PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
BECAUSE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE STATISTICS SUGGEST MORE
JUSTICE STATISTICS SUGGEST MORE THAN TWO-THIRDS OF WOMEN IN U.S.
THAN TWO-THIRDS OF WOMEN IN U.S. PRISONS ARE ALSO MOTHERS.
PRISONS ARE ALSO MOTHERS. BUT ALL THIS IS NOT ABOUT MAKING
BUT ALL THIS IS NOT ABOUT MAKING THE WOMEN FEEL COMFORTABLE.
THE WOMEN FEEL COMFORTABLE. INDIANA WOMEN'S PRISON COMMUNE
INDIANA WOMEN'S PRISON COMMUNE INVOLVEMENT COORDINATOR TAMMY AT
INVOLVEMENT COORDINATOR TAMMY AT WOOD SAYS IT'S ABOUT MAINTAINING
WOOD SAYS IT'S ABOUT MAINTAINING ORDER AND HELPING WOMEN TOWARD
ORDER AND HELPING WOMEN TOWARD REHABILITATION.
REHABILITATION. >> YOUR VIOLENCE IS PRETTY MUCH
>> YOUR VIOLENCE IS PRETTY MUCH ZERO TO NONEXISTENT.
ZERO TO NONEXISTENT. YOU MIGHT HAVE A CAT FIGHT HERE
YOU MIGHT HAVE A CAT FIGHT HERE AND THERE BUT WITH ALL THE
AND THERE BUT WITH ALL THE PROGRAMS WE OFFER I THINK IT'S A
PROGRAMS WE OFFER I THINK IT'S A BIG INCENTIVE NOT TO DO
BIG INCENTIVE NOT TO DO VIOLENCE, NOT TO DO THE THINGS
VIOLENCE, NOT TO DO THE THINGS THAT YOU DID TO GET YOU HERE.
THAT YOU DID TO GET YOU HERE. >> SHE SAYS THE PROGRAMS ALSO
>> SHE SAYS THE PROGRAMS ALSO PROVIDE SKILL SETS WOMEN CAN USE
PROVIDE SKILL SETS WOMEN CAN USE WHEN THEY'RE RELEASED.
WHEN THEY'RE RELEASED. >> I DID GET A CALL FROM ONE OF
>> I DID GET A CALL FROM ONE OF THE GIRLS WHO LEFT AND SAID
THE GIRLS WHO LEFT AND SAID BECAUSE I WORK IN COMMUNITY
BECAUSE I WORK IN COMMUNITY OUTREACH I'M HOOKED UP WITH
OUTREACH I'M HOOKED UP WITH VETERANS ON THE OUTSIDE, I'M
VETERANS ON THE OUTSIDE, I'M HELPING WITH THE LADIES
HELPING WITH THE LADIES AUXILIARY, SHOWING THEM HOW WE
AUXILIARY, SHOWING THEM HOW WE MADE THINGS AT THE PRISON AND
MADE THINGS AT THE PRISON AND SHE WAS IN TEARS AND SHE WAS
SHE WAS IN TEARS AND SHE WAS VERY THANKFUL SHE HAD THE
VERY THANKFUL SHE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.
OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT. >> ALTERNATIVE SENTENCING
>> ALTERNATIVE SENTENCING FACILITIES HAVE ALSO SEEN A RISE
FACILITIES HAVE ALSO SEEN A RISE IN DEMAND IN RECENT YEARS.
IN DEMAND IN RECENT YEARS. CRANE HOUSE IN INDIANAPOLIS
CRANE HOUSE IN INDIANAPOLIS ALLOWS WOMEN FROM NEARBY
ALLOWS WOMEN FROM NEARBY COUNTIES TO FINISH THEIR
COUNTIES TO FINISH THEIR SENTENCES IN A HOME WITH THEIR
SENTENCES IN A HOME WITH THEIR PRESCHOOL AGE CHILDREN.
PRESCHOOL AGE CHILDREN. IN FACT IT'S MOVING TO A NEW
IN FACT IT'S MOVING TO A NEW LARGER LOCATION BECAUSE MORE
LARGER LOCATION BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE ARE REQUESTING ITS
PEOPLE ARE REQUESTING ITS SERVICES.
SERVICES. PATRICE IS ONE OF THE WOMEN
PATRICE IS ONE OF THE WOMEN LIVING IN THE HOUSE.
LIVING IN THE HOUSE. WTIU AGREED NOT TO SHOW HER FACE
WTIU AGREED NOT TO SHOW HER FACE OR GIVE HER LAST NAME.
OR GIVE HER LAST NAME. >> I HAD AN 8-MONTH-OLD I LEFT
>> I HAD AN 8-MONTH-OLD I LEFT WHEN I GOT SENTENCED AND I WENT
WHEN I GOT SENTENCED AND I WENT TO PRISON.
TO PRISON. HE WAS 8 MONTHS OLD.
HE WAS 8 MONTHS OLD. HE IS 3 1/2 NOW.
HE IS 3 1/2 NOW. >> PATRICE SAYS SHE'S ABLE TO
>> PATRICE SAYS SHE'S ABLE TO SEE HER SON MORE OFTEN NOW AND
SEE HER SON MORE OFTEN NOW AND THAT'S GIVEN HER MOTIVATION TO
THAT'S GIVEN HER MOTIVATION TO FIND WORK AND GET HER LIFE BACK
FIND WORK AND GET HER LIFE BACK IN ORDER.
IN ORDER. >> I'M JUST SO GRATEFUL FOR
>> I'M JUST SO GRATEFUL FOR OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE HIM AROUND
OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE HIM AROUND AND TO BE ABLE TO BE HERE WITH
AND TO BE ABLE TO BE HERE WITH ME AND SPEND NIGHTS WITH ME THAT
ME AND SPEND NIGHTS WITH ME THAT I HADN'T HE CAN SPEAR WHENCED IN
I HADN'T HE CAN SPEAR WHENCED IN YEARS.
YEARS. >> WOMEN WHO GO THROUGH CRANE
>> WOMEN WHO GO THROUGH CRANE HOUSE'S PROGRAM HAVE A 20%
HOUSE'S PROGRAM HAVE A 20% RECIDIVISM RATE, ONE-THIRD THE
RECIDIVISM RATE, ONE-THIRD THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.
NATIONAL AVERAGE. CRANE HOUSE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
CRANE HOUSE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SAYS THE PROGRAM'S BENEFITS
SAYS THE PROGRAM'S BENEFITS R5E67 BEYOND THE WOMEN HOUSE
R5E67 BEYOND THE WOMEN HOUSE THERE HAD.
THERE HAD. >> SO MANY TIMES CHILDREN OF IN
>> SO MANY TIMES CHILDREN OF IN CAR RACE RATED PARENTS SEND
CAR RACE RATED PARENTS SEND TO -- INCARCERATED PARENTS TEND
TO -- INCARCERATED PARENTS TEND TO END UP IN THE SYSTEM.
TO END UP IN THE SYSTEM. IF WE CAN KEEP THAT FAMILY UNIT
IF WE CAN KEEP THAT FAMILY UNIT TOGETHER AT LEAST WITH THE
TOGETHER AT LEAST WITH THE MOTHER WE HAVE SEEN THAT TENDS
MOTHER WE HAVE SEEN THAT TENDS TO BREAK THAT CYCLE.
TO BREAK THAT CYCLE. CHILDREN DON'T COME BACK INTO
CHILDREN DON'T COME BACK INTO THE SYSTEM.
THE SYSTEM. >> EVEN WITH TANGIBLE RESULTS
>> EVEN WITH TANGIBLE RESULTS PROGRAMS LIKE THESE ARE RARE.
PROGRAMS LIKE THESE ARE RARE. CRANE HOUSE IS THE ONLY PROGRAM
CRANE HOUSE IS THE ONLY PROGRAM OF ITS KIND IN THE MIDWEST AND
OF ITS KIND IN THE MIDWEST AND WITH MORE WOMEN BEING SENTENCED
WITH MORE WOMEN BEING SENTENCED TO INDIANA'S PRISONS EACH DAY,
TO INDIANA'S PRISONS EACH DAY, DEMAND IS UNLIKELY TO EASE.
DEMAND IS UNLIKELY TO EASE. >> WE'RE JOINED IN STUDIO
>> WE'RE JOINED IN STUDIO TONIGHT BY SHANNON SCHUMACHER
TONIGHT BY SHANNON SCHUMACHER THE DIRECTOR OF CLINICAL
THE DIRECTOR OF CLINICAL SERVICES AT VOLUNTEERS OF
SERVICES AT VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA,
AMERICA, ALLISON GREENE, A COUNSELOR AT
ALLISON GREENE, A COUNSELOR AT THE INDIANA WOMEN'S PRISON,
THE INDIANA WOMEN'S PRISON, AND MELISSA BENNINGFIELD,
AND MELISSA BENNINGFIELD, WHO TEACHES IN INDIANA STATE
WHO TEACHES IN INDIANA STATE UNIVERSITY'S DEPARTMENT OF
UNIVERSITY'S DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINOLOGY AND CRIMINAL
CRIMINOLOGY AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
JUSTICE. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR BEING
THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR BEING HERE.
HERE. I WANT TO START AND GET A
I WANT TO START AND GET A BASELINE TO GET GOING.
BASELINE TO GET GOING. WE'LL START WITH SHANNON AND GO
WE'LL START WITH SHANNON AND GO DOWN THE LINE.
DOWN THE LINE. GIVE ME A TOPIC OR TWO THAT YOU
GIVE ME A TOPIC OR TWO THAT YOU THINK MAKES INCARCERATION FOR
THINK MAKES INCARCERATION FOR WOMEN IN INDIANA DIFFERENT THAN
WOMEN IN INDIANA DIFFERENT THAN INCARCERATION FOR MEN, JUST SO
INCARCERATION FOR MEN, JUST SO PEOPLE KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING
PEOPLE KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
ABOUT. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. I ALWAYS LIKE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE
I ALWAYS LIKE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT THE PROFILE OF A WOMAN WHO
ABOUT THE PROFILE OF A WOMAN WHO IS INCARCERATED.
IS INCARCERATED. WHO IS SHE?
WHO IS SHE? WHAT IS SHE LIKE?
WHAT IS SHE LIKE? WHY IS SHE THERE?
WHY IS SHE THERE? AND I THINK JUST GENERALLY
AND I THINK JUST GENERALLY KNOWING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
KNOWING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PROFILE OF THE AVERAGE MAN
THE PROFILE OF THE AVERAGE MAN WHO IS IN PRISON AND THE PROFILE
WHO IS IN PRISON AND THE PROFILE OF THE AVERAGE WOMAN THAT'S IN
OF THE AVERAGE WOMAN THAT'S IN PRISON ARE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT.
PRISON ARE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT. WE KNOW THAT THE CRIMINAL
WE KNOW THAT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND PRISON SYSTEM, THE
JUSTICE AND PRISON SYSTEM, THE PRISON SYSTEM IS A MALE MODEL,
PRISON SYSTEM IS A MALE MODEL, IT'S A MILITARY MAILT MODEL
IT'S A MILITARY MAILT MODEL BASED ON TRYING TO PROTECT THE
BASED ON TRYING TO PROTECT THE COMMUNITY AND PROTECT THE
COMMUNITY AND PROTECT THE COMMUNITY FROM FOLKS WHO MIGHT
COMMUNITY FROM FOLKS WHO MIGHT BE DETRIMENTAL TO THEM.
BE DETRIMENTAL TO THEM. SO I THINK WE ARE REALLY
SO I THINK WE ARE REALLY ADJUSTING OURSELVES, FOLKS THAT
ADJUSTING OURSELVES, FOLKS THAT WORK IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
WORK IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ARENA, TO THIS LARGE POPULATION
ARENA, TO THIS LARGE POPULATION OF WOMEN, BECAUSE THE -- JUST
OF WOMEN, BECAUSE THE -- JUST THE ISSUES ARE SO VERY
THE ISSUES ARE SO VERY DIFFERENT.
DIFFERENT. WE'RE CATCHING UP.
WE'RE CATCHING UP. >> ALLISON, WHAT ARE SOME OF
>> ALLISON, WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT YOU SEE FROM
THOSE THINGS THAT YOU SEE FROM KIND OF INSIDE THE SYSTEM?
KIND OF INSIDE THE SYSTEM? >> WELL, TWO THINGS THAT I SEE
>> WELL, TWO THINGS THAT I SEE IS NORMALLY BEFORE WOMEN ARE
IS NORMALLY BEFORE WOMEN ARE INCARCERATED, THEY ARE THE
INCARCERATED, THEY ARE THE PRIMARY CAREGIVER OF THEIR
PRIMARY CAREGIVER OF THEIR CHILDREN.
CHILDREN. MUCH MORE SO THAN MEN ARE.
MUCH MORE SO THAN MEN ARE. SO THERE'S DEFINITELY A BOND
SO THERE'S DEFINITELY A BOND BREAKING WHEN A WOMAN IS
BREAKING WHEN A WOMAN IS INCARCERATED BECAUSE SHE'S
INCARCERATED BECAUSE SHE'S THERE, SHE'S TAKING CARE OF HER
THERE, SHE'S TAKING CARE OF HER CHILDREN, SHE'S TAKING THEM TO
CHILDREN, SHE'S TAKING THEM TO SCHOOL, PUTTING THEM TO BED AT
SCHOOL, PUTTING THEM TO BED AT NIGHT, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN
NIGHT, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN SHE IS NOT THERE.
SHE IS NOT THERE. SO THAT ROLE IS BEING TAKEN ON
SO THAT ROLE IS BEING TAKEN ON BY SOMEBODY ELSE, USUALLY IN HER
BY SOMEBODY ELSE, USUALLY IN HER FAMILY.
FAMILY. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE TRIED TO DO WITH -- WE
WE'VE TRIED TO DO WITH -- WE HAVE A PROGRAM CALLED A FAMILY
HAVE A PROGRAM CALLED A FAMILY PRESERVATION PROGRAM WHERE WOMEN
PRESERVATION PROGRAM WHERE WOMEN GET TO SPEND SOME EXTRA TIME
GET TO SPEND SOME EXTRA TIME VISITING JUST WITH THEIR
VISITING JUST WITH THEIR CHILDREN, AND IT'S KIND OF A
CHILDREN, AND IT'S KIND OF A HOMEY ENVIRONMENT.
HOMEY ENVIRONMENT. WE HAVE A COUCH.
WE HAVE A COUCH. THEY CAN WATCH MOVIES, PLAY
THEY CAN WATCH MOVIES, PLAY GAMES TOGETHER, EAT TOGETHER.
GAMES TOGETHER, EAT TOGETHER. JUST TO KIND OF GIVE THAT SENSE
JUST TO KIND OF GIVE THAT SENSE OF HOME.
OF HOME. THEY CAN JUST TALK ABOUT THEIR
THEY CAN JUST TALK ABOUT THEIR DAY OR THEIR WEEK OR THEIR
DAY OR THEIR WEEK OR THEIR MONTH.
MONTH. JUST DEPENDING ON HOW LONG IT'S
JUST DEPENDING ON HOW LONG IT'S BEEN SINCE THEY HAVE SEEN THEIR
BEEN SINCE THEY HAVE SEEN THEIR CHILD.
CHILD. AND THE OTHER THING IS THAT WE
AND THE OTHER THING IS THAT WE ARE INCARCERATING A LOT OF WOMEN
ARE INCARCERATING A LOT OF WOMEN OF CHILDBEARING AGE.
OF CHILDBEARING AGE. SO WE ARE DEALING WITH WOMEN.
SO WE ARE DEALING WITH WOMEN. PREGNANCY DOESN'T STOP WHEN
PREGNANCY DOESN'T STOP WHEN SOMEONE IS INCARCERATED.
SOMEONE IS INCARCERATED. WE HAVE A LOT OF WOMEN COMING
WE HAVE A LOT OF WOMEN COMING INTO THE SYSTEM THAT ARE
INTO THE SYSTEM THAT ARE PREGNANT AND HAVING BABIES.
PREGNANT AND HAVING BABIES. SO THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE YOU
SO THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE YOU DON'T DEAL WITH THE MALE SIDE.
DON'T DEAL WITH THE MALE SIDE. >> MELISSA, WHAT ABOUT FROM AN
>> MELISSA, WHAT ABOUT FROM AN ACADEMIC SIDE OF THINGS, WHAT
ACADEMIC SIDE OF THINGS, WHAT ARE YOU SEEDIN SEEING IN TRENDSN
ARE YOU SEEDIN SEEING IN TRENDSN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MEN AND
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN INCARCERATED.
WOMEN INCARCERATED. >> MOST DEFINITELY ACROSS THE
>> MOST DEFINITELY ACROSS THE UNITED STATES AND INDIANA AS
UNITED STATES AND INDIANA AS WELL, WOMEN'S INCARCERATION RATE
WELL, WOMEN'S INCARCERATION RATE HAS INCREASED MUCH QUICKER THAN
HAS INCREASED MUCH QUICKER THAN THE MEN'S INCARCERATION RATE.
THE MEN'S INCARCERATION RATE. SO THAT PUTS A BURDEN ON THE
SO THAT PUTS A BURDEN ON THE STATES THAT ARE NEEDING TO
STATES THAT ARE NEEDING TO INCARCERATE THESE PEOPLE.
INCARCERATE THESE PEOPLE. WHAT DO WE DO WITH ALL THESE
WHAT DO WE DO WITH ALL THESE WOMEN.
WOMEN. AND THEN WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH
AND THEN WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH ALL THE PROGRAMMING AND ALL OF
ALL THE PROGRAMMING AND ALL OF THAT FOR THEM, AND, REALLY, TO
THAT FOR THEM, AND, REALLY, TO PREPARE THEM FOR RELEASE BEFORE
PREPARE THEM FOR RELEASE BEFORE THEY EVEN -- BEFORE THEY EVEN
THEY EVEN -- BEFORE THEY EVEN ARE RELEASED.
ARE RELEASED. SO AS SOON AS THEY ARRIVE AT THE
SO AS SOON AS THEY ARRIVE AT THE INSTITUTION.
INSTITUTION. THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.
THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. AND AS BOTH ALLISON AND THE
AND AS BOTH ALLISON AND THE OTHER GUEST SAID, MOST OF THE
OTHER GUEST SAID, MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO COME INTO THE WOMEN'S
PEOPLE WHO COME INTO THE WOMEN'S PRISONS ARE GOING TO HAVE AT
PRISONS ARE GOING TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE MINOR CHILD.
LEAST ONE MINOR CHILD. SO THAT IS A PARTICULAR DEMAND
SO THAT IS A PARTICULAR DEMAND UNLIKE FOR MEN.
UNLIKE FOR MEN. >> LET ME ASK YOU AND WE'LL COME
>> LET ME ASK YOU AND WE'LL COME BACK DOWN THE PANEL, THAT BEGS
BACK DOWN THE PANEL, THAT BEGS THE QUESTION, IS THE STATE DOING
THE QUESTION, IS THE STATE DOING ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE THE
ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE THE WOMEN'S PRISONERS THAT IT IN
WOMEN'S PRISONERS THAT IT IN KAWRS RATES?
KAWRS RATES? >> I -- LOOKING AND REVIEWING
>> I -- LOOKING AND REVIEWING THE INSTITUTIONS IN INDIANA AND
THE INSTITUTIONS IN INDIANA AND ALL OF THE SERVICES AND PROGRAMS
ALL OF THE SERVICES AND PROGRAMS THAT THEY DO DELIVER TO THE
THAT THEY DO DELIVER TO THE OFFENDERS, FEMALE OFFENDERS,
OFFENDERS, FEMALE OFFENDERS, THEY DO HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT
THEY DO HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF PROGRAMMING THAT THEY DO.
OF PROGRAMMING THAT THEY DO. THEY ATTEMPT TO HIT A LOT OF
THEY ATTEMPT TO HIT A LOT OF DIFFERENT AREAS FOR THE WOMEN,
DIFFERENT AREAS FOR THE WOMEN, WHETHER THEY ARE OF CHILDBEARING
WHETHER THEY ARE OF CHILDBEARING AGE OR IF THEY ARE OLDER, HAVING
AGE OR IF THEY ARE OLDER, HAVING TO DO WITH NOT ONLY PARENTING
TO DO WITH NOT ONLY PARENTING AND CHILDREN, BUT ALSO HAVING TO
AND CHILDREN, BUT ALSO HAVING TO DO WITH THEIR OWN SELF -- WITH
DO WITH THEIR OWN SELF -- WITH THEIR OWN SELF-INTERESTS AND
THEIR OWN SELF-INTERESTS AND MAKING THEMSELVES STRONGER,
MAKING THEMSELVES STRONGER, EDUCATING THEM, TEACHING THEM
EDUCATING THEM, TEACHING THEM SOME TYPE OF SKILL.
SOME TYPE OF SKILL. THERE ARE MANY, MANY PROGRAMS
THERE ARE MANY, MANY PROGRAMS THAT THESE INSTITUTIONS DO
THAT THESE INSTITUTIONS DO PROVIDE.
PROVIDE. >> ALLISON, YOU, OF COURSE, ARE
>> ALLISON, YOU, OF COURSE, ARE INVOLVED WITH SOME OF THESE
INVOLVED WITH SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS.
PROGRAMS. IS THERE ENOUGH?
IS THERE ENOUGH? DOES THERE NEED TO BE MORE?
DOES THERE NEED TO BE MORE? >> I THINK WE ARE GETTING TO
>> I THINK WE ARE GETTING TO THAT POINT.
THAT POINT. I MEAN, EVERY YEAR THERE ARE
I MEAN, EVERY YEAR THERE ARE MORE PROGRAMS EVERY TIME WE
MORE PROGRAMS EVERY TIME WE AREN'T BATTERY RELATED, AREN'T
AREN'T BATTERY RELATED, AREN'T VIOLENCE RELATED.
VIOLENCE RELATED. THEY OFTENTIMES HAVE TO DO WITH
THEY OFTENTIMES HAVE TO DO WITH PROPERTY CRIMES AND CRIMES THAT
PROPERTY CRIMES AND CRIMES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THEIR ADDICTIONS
HAVE TO DO WITH THEIR ADDICTIONS AND CRIMES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH
AND CRIMES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH POVERTY AND SELF-SUSTAINING, AND
POVERTY AND SELF-SUSTAINING, AND SO MALES HAVE A VERY
SO MALES HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT -- A DIFFERENT PATHWAY
DIFFERENT -- A DIFFERENT PATHWAY TO CRIME, SO THERE'S ISN'T
TO CRIME, SO THERE'S ISN'T ALWAYS THE LOWER LEVEL CRIMES.
ALWAYS THE LOWER LEVEL CRIMES. THEY'RE USUALLY HIGHER -- WHAT
THEY'RE USUALLY HIGHER -- WHAT THEY HAVE ARE DIFFERENT KIND OF
THEY HAVE ARE DIFFERENT KIND OF FELONIES AND A AND B ARE THE
FELONIES AND A AND B ARE THE MOST SERIOUS, AND THOSE ARE
MOST SERIOUS, AND THOSE ARE REALLY THE FOCUS OF A LOT OF THE
REALLY THE FOCUS OF A LOT OF THE MALES.
MALES. WITH WOMEN IT'S THE LOWER LEVEL
WITH WOMEN IT'S THE LOWER LEVEL CRIMES.
CRIMES. SO FOR US, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT,
SO FOR US, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT, WHEN YOU INCARCERATE A WOMAN, WE
WHEN YOU INCARCERATE A WOMAN, WE TALK ABOUT THIS, ANOTHER VICTIM
TALK ABOUT THIS, ANOTHER VICTIM OF HER CRIME IS THE CHILDREN.
OF HER CRIME IS THE CHILDREN. THE CHILDREN THAT SHE HAS
THE CHILDREN THAT SHE HAS BEEN -- HAD CUSTODY OF.
BEEN -- HAD CUSTODY OF. AND WE KNOW WITH A MALE
AND WE KNOW WITH A MALE OFTENTIMES HE HAS QUITE A FEW
OFTENTIMES HE HAS QUITE A FEW CHILDREN BUT HE MAY OR MAY NOT
CHILDREN BUT HE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN ACTIVE IN THAT CHILD'S
HAVE BEEN ACTIVE IN THAT CHILD'S LIFE.
LIFE. GENERALLY PROBABLY WASN'T THE
GENERALLY PROBABLY WASN'T THE PRIMARY CAREGIVER.
PRIMARY CAREGIVER. SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THOSE
SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THOSE 2500 WOMEN WHO ARE INCARCERATED
2500 WOMEN WHO ARE INCARCERATED FOR THESE LOW-LEVEL CRIMES,
FOR THESE LOW-LEVEL CRIMES, COULD THERE BE ANOTHER AVENUE?
COULD THERE BE ANOTHER AVENUE? COULD THERE BE A COMMUNITY
COULD THERE BE A COMMUNITY CORRECTIONS AVENUE?
CORRECTIONS AVENUE? COULD WE KEEP THEM IN THE
COULD WE KEEP THEM IN THE COMMUNITY WITH THEIR FAMILY OR
COMMUNITY WITH THEIR FAMILY OR AT LEAST HAVE MORE ACCESS TO
AT LEAST HAVE MORE ACCESS TO THEIR FAMILY.
THEIR FAMILY. WE AT VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA WE
WE AT VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA WE HAVE THEODOREA HOUSE.
HAVE THEODOREA HOUSE. IT'S A HALFWAY HOUSE.
IT'S A HALFWAY HOUSE. I LIKE TO SAY THEY HAVE ONE FOOT
I LIKE TO SAY THEY HAVE ONE FOOT IN AND ONE FOOT OUT.
IN AND ONE FOOT OUT. SO THEY ARE STILL UNDER
SO THEY ARE STILL UNDER JURISDICTION OF THEIR -- THE
JURISDICTION OF THEIR -- THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, BUT
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, BUT THEY ALSO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY.
THEY ALSO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY. SO THEY'RE ALLOWED TO SEE THEIR
SO THEY'RE ALLOWED TO SEE THEIR CHILDREN.
CHILDREN. WE HAVE VISITATION SITES ON SITE
WE HAVE VISITATION SITES ON SITE AND SO THEY CAN VISIT WITH THEIR
AND SO THEY CAN VISIT WITH THEIR CHILDREN A LOT LIKE WE TALKED
CHILDREN A LOT LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT WITH CRANE HOUSE WHERE
ABOUT WITH CRANE HOUSE WHERE THEY CAN VISIT, AND THAT BOND OF
THEY CAN VISIT, AND THAT BOND OF PARENTING IS SO VERY IMPORTANT,
PARENTING IS SO VERY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE CHILDREN OF
BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE CHILDREN OF THESE WOMEN ARE VERY MUCH MORE
THESE WOMEN ARE VERY MUCH MORE AFFECTED WHEN IT'S A PRIMARY
AFFECTED WHEN IT'S A PRIMARY CAREGIVER, THAT PARENT THAT'S
CAREGIVER, THAT PARENT THAT'S PULLED OUT.
PULLED OUT. >> A COUPLE OF YOU HAVE
>> A COUPLE OF YOU HAVE MENTIONED SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND
MENTIONED SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND THE EFFECT ON CHILDREN.
THE EFFECT ON CHILDREN. WE HAVE A PIECE OF TAPE WE
WE HAVE A PIECE OF TAPE WE GATHERED FROM ANOTHER YOUNG
GATHERED FROM ANOTHER YOUNG WOMAN WHO WE AGREED NOT TO
WOMAN WHO WE AGREED NOT TO IDENTIFY BEYOND HER FIRST NAME
IDENTIFY BEYOND HER FIRST NAME THAT I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY AND
THAT I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY AND THEN WE'LL GET BACK TO MORE OF
THEN WE'LL GET BACK TO MORE OF THAT IN A SECOND.
THAT IN A SECOND. >> I GUESS BOTH MY PARENTS WERE
>> I GUESS BOTH MY PARENTS WERE ADDICTS AND I GUESS WHEN YOUR
ADDICTS AND I GUESS WHEN YOUR PARENTS ARE ADDICTS, YOU HAVE
PARENTS ARE ADDICTS, YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES.
TWO CHOICES. YOU CAN EITHER DECIDE NOT TO GO
YOU CAN EITHER DECIDE NOT TO GO DOWN THE ROUTE THEY WENT, OR IN
DOWN THE ROUTE THEY WENT, OR IN MY CASE, I SAID, IF THEY CAN DO
MY CASE, I SAID, IF THEY CAN DO IT, I CAN DO IT.
IT, I CAN DO IT. I FOLLOWED IN THEIR FOOTSTEPS.
I FOLLOWED IN THEIR FOOTSTEPS. I'VE MET A LOT OF WOMEN THAT
I'VE MET A LOT OF WOMEN THAT RESORT TO DRUG USE BECAUSE OF
RESORT TO DRUG USE BECAUSE OF LOW SELF-ESTEEM OR PAST HURT
LOW SELF-ESTEEM OR PAST HURT THAT'S GONE ON IN THEIR LIVES,
THAT'S GONE ON IN THEIR LIVES, AND I KNOW THAT BOTH OF THOSE
AND I KNOW THAT BOTH OF THOSE THINGS KIND OF PLAYED INTO MY
THINGS KIND OF PLAYED INTO MY DRUG USE.
DRUG USE. BEING LOCKED UP AND COMING HERE
BEING LOCKED UP AND COMING HERE HAS MADE ME REALIZE THERE'S SO
HAS MADE ME REALIZE THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TO LIFE.
MUCH MORE TO LIFE. I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO FIND
I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING GREATER THAN THAT
SOMETHING GREATER THAN THAT HIGH.
HIGH. AND I KNOW I DEFINITELY HAVE.
AND I KNOW I DEFINITELY HAVE. I WOULD RATHER HAVE MY KIDS
I WOULD RATHER HAVE MY KIDS EVERY DAY THAN TO EVER
EVERY DAY THAN TO EVER EXPERIENCE A HIGH AGAIN.
EXPERIENCE A HIGH AGAIN. >> ALLISON, I WANT TO START WITH
>> ALLISON, I WANT TO START WITH YOU.
YOU. THIS SOUNDS LIKE A SORT OF
THIS SOUNDS LIKE A SORT OF TYPICAL CASE IN POINT OF HOW
TYPICAL CASE IN POINT OF HOW THIS THING HAPPENS, A CHILD OF
THIS THING HAPPENS, A CHILD OF DRUG USERS, GETS INTO DRUGS
DRUG USERS, GETS INTO DRUGS HERSELF, AND IT'S THIS DOWNWARD
HERSELF, AND IT'S THIS DOWNWARD SPIRAL OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT
SPIRAL OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT FACTORS THAT EVENTUALLY WINDS UP
FACTORS THAT EVENTUALLY WINDS UP WITH INCARCERATION.
WITH INCARCERATION. >> YES.
>> YES. AND WE WANT TO STOP THE CYCLE.
AND WE WANT TO STOP THE CYCLE. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PROGRAMS THAT
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PROGRAMS THAT TRY TO GET THE CHILDREN TO BOND
TRY TO GET THE CHILDREN TO BOND WITH THEIR -- TO GET THE MOTHERS
WITH THEIR -- TO GET THE MOTHERS TO BOND WITH THEIR CHILDREN SO
TO BOND WITH THEIR CHILDREN SO THAT THEY CAN BE PRESENT IN
THAT THEY CAN BE PRESENT IN THEIR LIVES AND THEIR CHILDREN
THEIR LIVES AND THEIR CHILDREN CAN SEE THEM WITHOUT USING, YOU
CAN SEE THEM WITHOUT USING, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY'RE INCARCERATED,
KNOW, WHEN THEY'RE INCARCERATED, THEY'RE NOT USING.
THEY'RE NOT USING. THEY'RE FOCUSED, AND FOCUS ON
THEY'RE FOCUSED, AND FOCUS ON GETTING OUT TO BE WITH THEIR
GETTING OUT TO BE WITH THEIR CHILDREN.
CHILDREN. SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE KIDS
SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE KIDS TO SEE THAT AND TO SEE THAT
TO SEE THAT AND TO SEE THAT THAT'S THE MOM THEY WANT.
THAT'S THE MOM THEY WANT. THAT'S THE MOM THEY WANT TO COME
THAT'S THE MOM THEY WANT TO COME HOME.
HOME. AND A LOT OF OUR CRIMES LIKE
AND A LOT OF OUR CRIMES LIKE SHANNON SAID, IT'S RELATED TO
SHANNON SAID, IT'S RELATED TO ADDICTION.
ADDICTION. IT'S RELATED TO DRUG USE, EVEN
IT'S RELATED TO DRUG USE, EVEN IF IT'S NOT A CRIME OF
IF IT'S NOT A CRIME OF POSSESSION OR DEALING CHARGE, IT
POSSESSION OR DEALING CHARGE, IT COULD BE THEFT IN ORDER TO
COULD BE THEFT IN ORDER TO OBTAIN DRUGS OR THEFT IN ORDER
OBTAIN DRUGS OR THEFT IN ORDER TO OBTAIN NECESSITIES AS SHE
TO OBTAIN NECESSITIES AS SHE SAID, AS WELL.
SAID, AS WELL. BUT VERY OFTEN PRESCRIPTION
BUT VERY OFTEN PRESCRIPTION FRAUD, THINGS LIKE THAT, TO
FRAUD, THINGS LIKE THAT, TO OBTAIN DRUGS.
OBTAIN DRUGS. >> THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
>> THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE STATISTICS SUGGEST THAT THEFT IS
STATISTICS SUGGEST THAT THEFT IS THE MOST COMMON FELONY IN
THE MOST COMMON FELONY IN INDIANA.
INDIANA. I WAS LOOKING AT THEM EARLIER
I WAS LOOKING AT THEM EARLIER TODAY.
TODAY. FOR BOTH MEN AND WOMEN.
FOR BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. MELISSA, LET ME ASK YOU FROM A
MELISSA, LET ME ASK YOU FROM A CRIMINOLOGY STANDPOINT, WHEN YOU
CRIMINOLOGY STANDPOINT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT LEADS TO CRIME, IF
LOOK AT WHAT LEADS TO CRIME, IF YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU
YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE CHILDREN OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
HAVE CHILDREN OF PEOPLE WHO ARE THEN PUT IN PRISON, HOW DO YOU
THEN PUT IN PRISON, HOW DO YOU SEPARATE THE ACTION AS THE CHILD
SEPARATE THE ACTION AS THE CHILD SEES IT THAT GOT THEIR PARENT
SEES IT THAT GOT THEIR PARENT INTO PRISON FROM, HEY, YOU
INTO PRISON FROM, HEY, YOU SHOULDN'T DO THIS YOURSELF GOING
SHOULDN'T DO THIS YOURSELF GOING FORWARD?
FORWARD? HOW DO YOU ESTABLISH THAT BREAK,
HOW DO YOU ESTABLISH THAT BREAK, FIRST OF ALL, BETWEEN THE TWO,
FIRST OF ALL, BETWEEN THE TWO, SO THAT THERE'S NOT THIS NATURE
SO THAT THERE'S NOT THIS NATURE VERSUS NURTURE OF, WELL, MAYBE I
VERSUS NURTURE OF, WELL, MAYBE I SHOULD DO THIS?
SHOULD DO THIS? >> I THINK ONE OF THE BEST WAYS
>> I THINK ONE OF THE BEST WAYS THAT THAT COULD BE DONE WOULD BE
THAT THAT COULD BE DONE WOULD BE THROUGH EXAMPLE.
THROUGH EXAMPLE. AS YOU SAID, THERE AT THE
AS YOU SAID, THERE AT THE INSTITUTION ITSELF, ENCOURAGING
INSTITUTION ITSELF, ENCOURAGING THAT STRONG BOND BETWEEN THE
THAT STRONG BOND BETWEEN THE CHILDREN AND THE CHILD OR
CHILDREN AND THE CHILD OR CHILDREN BEING ABLE TO SEE THE
CHILDREN BEING ABLE TO SEE THE PARENT NOT USING AND NOT DOING
PARENT NOT USING AND NOT DOING ANYTHING DESTRUCTIVE.
ANYTHING DESTRUCTIVE. SELF-DESTRUCTIVE.
SELF-DESTRUCTIVE. SO THAT'S SO TERRIBLY IMPORTANT,
SO THAT'S SO TERRIBLY IMPORTANT, AS AN EXAMPLE THAT THE MOTHER IS
AS AN EXAMPLE THAT THE MOTHER IS ABLE TO DO THAT FOR THE CHILD.
ABLE TO DO THAT FOR THE CHILD. >> THIS SORT OF THE SITUATION
>> THIS SORT OF THE SITUATION WOULD SEEM TO SPEAK TO THE FACT,
WOULD SEEM TO SPEAK TO THE FACT, THOUGH, THAT THESE WOMEN NEED TO
THOUGH, THAT THESE WOMEN NEED TO DO SOME LEARNING OF THEIR OWN
DO SOME LEARNING OF THEIR OWN ABOUT PARENTING.
ABOUT PARENTING. HOW DO YOU GET THEM UP TO SPEED
HOW DO YOU GET THEM UP TO SPEED SO THAT THEY CAN BE GOOD ENOUGH
SO THAT THEY CAN BE GOOD ENOUGH PARENTS TO DO EVERYTHING THAT
PARENTS TO DO EVERYTHING THAT THEY PROBABLY WANT TO DO FOR
THEY PROBABLY WANT TO DO FOR THEIR KIDS BUT JUST MAY NOT HAVE
THEIR KIDS BUT JUST MAY NOT HAVE LEARNED HOW TO DO YET?
LEARNED HOW TO DO YET? HOW DO YOU ACCOMPLISH THAT?
HOW DO YOU ACCOMPLISH THAT? >> WELL, AT IWP WE DO HAVE
>> WELL, AT IWP WE DO HAVE PROGRAMMING FOR THAT.
PROGRAMMING FOR THAT. FOR THE WOMEN ON THE NURSERY
FOR THE WOMEN ON THE NURSERY UNIT, THEY HAVE SEVERAL CLASSES.
UNIT, THEY HAVE SEVERAL CLASSES. THERE IS A CHILD DEVELOPMENT
THERE IS A CHILD DEVELOPMENT PSYCHOLOGIST THAT COMES IN AND
PSYCHOLOGIST THAT COMES IN AND DOES A CHILD DEVELOPMENT CLASS
DOES A CHILD DEVELOPMENT CLASS ON A WEEKLY BASIS WITH THE
ON A WEEKLY BASIS WITH THE MOTHERS TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT
MOTHERS TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT HOW THE BABIES ARE DEVELOPING.
HOW THE BABIES ARE DEVELOPING. THEY ALSO ATTEND PRENATAL
THEY ALSO ATTEND PRENATAL CLASSES BEFORE THEY HAVE THE
CLASSES BEFORE THEY HAVE THE BABY.
BABY. THEY DO A LOT OF PARENTING
THEY DO A LOT OF PARENTING CHILDREN FROM 0 TO 5 AND
CHILDREN FROM 0 TO 5 AND INFLUENCE INSIDE OF THE
INFLUENCE INSIDE OF THE CURRICULUM.
CURRICULUM. THEY ALSO HAVE A SOCIAL WORKER
THEY ALSO HAVE A SOCIAL WORKER FOR HEALTH SERVICES THAT COMES
FOR HEALTH SERVICES THAT COMES AND IT'S CALLED HEALTHY STARTS
AND IT'S CALLED HEALTHY STARTS AND SHE DOES A PROGRAM WITH THE
AND SHE DOES A PROGRAM WITH THE HE WOULWEE ONES, MOTHERS AND PRS
HE WOULWEE ONES, MOTHERS AND PRS AS WELL, AND WE ALSO HAVE A
AS WELL, AND WE ALSO HAVE A PSYCHOLOGY GROUP THAT COMES ON
PSYCHOLOGY GROUP THAT COMES ON ONE DAY OF THE WEEK THAT THEY DO
ONE DAY OF THE WEEK THAT THEY DO A FAMILY THERAPY GROUP SO THEY
A FAMILY THERAPY GROUP SO THEY LEARN TO TALK ABOUT ISSUES.
LEARN TO TALK ABOUT ISSUES. AND COMMUNICATION IS A BIG PART
AND COMMUNICATION IS A BIG PART OF LEARNING AND GROWING AND
OF LEARNING AND GROWING AND LEARNING FROM THE OTHER WOMEN
LEARNING FROM THE OTHER WOMEN AND FROM THE PEOPLE THAT ARE
AND FROM THE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING INTO TEACH.
COMING INTO TEACH. SO WE ARE ADDRESSING IT.
SO WE ARE ADDRESSING IT. AND WOMEN IN GENERAL POPULATION
AND WOMEN IN GENERAL POPULATION ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO PARENTING
ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO PARENTING CLASSES AS WELL AND THEY DO TAKE
CLASSES AS WELL AND THEY DO TAKE A PARENTING CLASS BEFORE THEY'RE
A PARENTING CLASS BEFORE THEY'RE ABLE TO USE THAT FAMILY
ABLE TO USE THAT FAMILY PRESERVATION PROGRAM.
PRESERVATION PROGRAM. THEY COMPLETE A CLASS.
THEY COMPLETE A CLASS. >> SHANNON, YOU TALKED AT THE
>> SHANNON, YOU TALKED AT THE BEGINNING ABOUT THIS BEING A
BEGINNING ABOUT THIS BEING A VERY MILITARISTIC STYLE OF
VERY MILITARISTIC STYLE OF PRISON SYSTEM BASED AROUND
PRISON SYSTEM BASED AROUND HOUSING MOSTLY MEN BUT OBVIOUSLY
HOUSING MOSTLY MEN BUT OBVIOUSLY THE FEMALE POPULATION HAS GROWN
THE FEMALE POPULATION HAS GROWN AND GROWN OVER TIME.
AND GROWN OVER TIME. I WONDER IF THE CONVERSE OF THAT
I WONDER IF THE CONVERSE OF THAT COULD BE TRUE WHERE AS THE STATE
COULD BE TRUE WHERE AS THE STATE SEES IT IS HOUSING MORE WOMEN
SEES IT IS HOUSING MORE WOMEN AND IT NEEDS TO PROVIDE SERVICES
AND IT NEEDS TO PROVIDE SERVICES FOR MORE AND MORE FEMALE
FOR MORE AND MORE FEMALE INMATES, COULD THAT HAVE AN
INMATES, COULD THAT HAVE AN EFFECT BACK ON THE REST OF THE
EFFECT BACK ON THE REST OF THE SYSTEM ITSELF TO SAY, MAYBE,
SYSTEM ITSELF TO SAY, MAYBE, WE'VE NOT BEEN TREATING EVERYONE
WE'VE NOT BEEN TREATING EVERYONE THE WAY WE SHOULD BE GOING
THE WAY WE SHOULD BE GOING FORWARD?
FORWARD? >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE
I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE -- I KNOW THE
THINGS THAT WE -- I KNOW THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTION DOES
DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTION DOES REALLY WELL IS ALSO FATHERHOOD
REALLY WELL IS ALSO FATHERHOOD INITIATIVES.
INITIATIVES. SO THAT ISSUE WITH REALLY
SO THAT ISSUE WITH REALLY HELPING THE WHOLE FAMILY IN
HELPING THE WHOLE FAMILY IN PARENTING I THINK IS A VERY
PARENTING I THINK IS A VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF IT.
IMPORTANT PIECE OF IT. AND I THINK -- THE WHOLE THING
AND I THINK -- THE WHOLE THING IS YOU CAN'T RIP OUT THE URINALS
IS YOU CAN'T RIP OUT THE URINALS AND PAINT THE WALLS PINK AND
AND PAINT THE WALLS PINK AND THERE'S YOUR WOMEN'S FACILITY.
THERE'S YOUR WOMEN'S FACILITY. THERE'S A LOT MORE WITH
THERE'S A LOT MORE WITH PROGRAMMING AND REALLY FOCUSING
PROGRAMMING AND REALLY FOCUSING ON WHAT IS GOING -- BECAUSE,
ON WHAT IS GOING -- BECAUSE, REALLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
REALLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS REDUCING RECIDIVISM WHERE
IS REDUCING RECIDIVISM WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT KEEPING
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT KEEPING FOLKS FROM GETTING INCARCERATED,
FOLKS FROM GETTING INCARCERATED, FROM GETTING REINCARCERATED,
FROM GETTING REINCARCERATED, FROM GOING BACK IN THE SYSTEM.
FROM GOING BACK IN THE SYSTEM. WE KNOW NATIONALLY ACROSS THE
WE KNOW NATIONALLY ACROSS THE NATION IT COSTS $30,000 TO HAVE
NATION IT COSTS $30,000 TO HAVE SOMEONE INCARCERATED FOR A YEAR
SOMEONE INCARCERATED FOR A YEAR IN A PRISON.
IN A PRISON. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TUITION IS
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TUITION IS AT IU ANYMORE, BUT I DON'T THINK
AT IU ANYMORE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S QUITE THAT HIGH.
IT'S QUITE THAT HIGH. IF YOU THINK BIT IF YOU'RE NOT
IF YOU THINK BIT IF YOU'RE NOT EVEN FOCUSED ON THE HUMANITARIAN
EVEN FOCUSED ON THE HUMANITARIAN PIECE, IT'S WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT
PIECE, IT'S WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THIS GIANT PROBLEM WE HAVE, THEN
THIS GIANT PROBLEM WE HAVE, THEN JUST THE SHEER NUMBER, JUST THE
JUST THE SHEER NUMBER, JUST THE COST TO OUR SOCIETY, OUR
COST TO OUR SOCIETY, OUR TAXPAYERS, I MEAN, IS A BIG
TAXPAYERS, I MEAN, IS A BIG PIECE OF IT.
PIECE OF IT. SO JUST LOOKING IN GENERAL AT
SO JUST LOOKING IN GENERAL AT WHAT ARE WE DOING IN THE
WHAT ARE WE DOING IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND WHAT'S WORKING AND WHAT ISN'T.
WHAT'S WORKING AND WHAT ISN'T. THERE'S SOME GOOD RESEARCH OUT
THERE'S SOME GOOD RESEARCH OUT THERE.
THERE. WE REALLY DO KNOW WHAT WORKS A
WE REALLY DO KNOW WHAT WORKS A LOT OF TIMES, BUT I THINK
LOT OF TIMES, BUT I THINK THERE'S STILL IN OUR SOCIETY A
THERE'S STILL IN OUR SOCIETY A REAL, I THINK, PUSH, AND
REAL, I THINK, PUSH, AND SOMEWHAT OF A NEED, TO HAVE
SOMEWHAT OF A NEED, TO HAVE PUNISHMENT RHETT RETRIBUTION FOR
PUNISHMENT RHETT RETRIBUTION FOR CRIMES THAT PEOPLE COMMIT.
CRIMES THAT PEOPLE COMMIT. I THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF
I THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
SENSE. BUT THESE FOLKS GET OUT.
BUT THESE FOLKS GET OUT. THEY DON'T STAY THERE.
THEY DON'T STAY THERE. THEY'RE COMING BACK TO THE
THEY'RE COMING BACK TO THE COMMUNITY.
COMMUNITY. THEY ARE MOVING BACK IN INTO
THEY ARE MOVING BACK IN INTO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT KEEPING THEM
SO LET'S TALK ABOUT KEEPING THEM FROM THIS LIFE OF CRIME.
FROM THIS LIFE OF CRIME. >> LET'S TALK A LITTLE MORE
>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE MORE ABOUT RECIDIVISM BECAUSE WE SAW
ABOUT RECIDIVISM BECAUSE WE SAW IN THE OPEN THAT, FOR INSTANCE,
IN THE OPEN THAT, FOR INSTANCE, AT CRANE HOUSE IT'S ABOUT 20% --
AT CRANE HOUSE IT'S ABOUT 20% -- IT LOOKS LIKE THE STATE AVERAGE
IT LOOKS LIKE THE STATE AVERAGE FROM LAST YEAR WAS ABOUT 30%
FROM LAST YEAR WAS ABOUT 30% ACCORDING TO STATISTICS I FOUND
ACCORDING TO STATISTICS I FOUND ON THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS
ON THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS WEB SITE, AND THEN IN OUR OPEN
WEB SITE, AND THEN IN OUR OPEN WE SAID, LOOK, THE NATIONAL
WE SAID, LOOK, THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS ABOUT 60%.
AVERAGE IS ABOUT 60%. THAT WOULD SEEM TO SAY THAT
THAT WOULD SEEM TO SAY THAT INDIANA IS DOING FAIRLY WELL IN
INDIANA IS DOING FAIRLY WELL IN TERMS OF NOT HAVING PEOPLE FALL
TERMS OF NOT HAVING PEOPLE FALL BACK INTO THIS CYCLE, RIGHT?
BACK INTO THIS CYCLE, RIGHT? I MEAN, DO THOSE NUMBERS BEAR
I MEAN, DO THOSE NUMBERS BEAR THAT OUT?
THAT OUT? >> I KNOW THAT IN THE STATE OF
>> I KNOW THAT IN THE STATE OF EU7BD THE -- IN THE STATE OF
EU7BD THE -- IN THE STATE OF INDIANA THE MALE POPULATION IS
INDIANA THE MALE POPULATION IS 40%, THEY LOOK AT THREE YEARS
40%, THEY LOOK AT THREE YEARS OUT AND IT'S ABOUT 40%
OUT AND IT'S ABOUT 40% RECIDIVISM RATE.
RECIDIVISM RATE. SO WOMEN IS 30.
SO WOMEN IS 30. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT 60%.
I'M NOT SURE ABOUT 60%. ALSO YOU ALSO NEED TO LOOK AT
ALSO YOU ALSO NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT IS THE TIME FRAME, HOW FAR
WHAT IS THE TIME FRAME, HOW FAR OUT.
OUT. SO I'M NOT REALLY SURE.
SO I'M NOT REALLY SURE. I KNOW NATIONALLY 30% FOR WOMEN
I KNOW NATIONALLY 30% FOR WOMEN AFTER THREE YEARS OF RELEASE IS
AFTER THREE YEARS OF RELEASE IS PRETTY COMMON.
PRETTY COMMON. I DON'T KNOW THAT INDIANA IS
I DON'T KNOW THAT INDIANA IS DOING BETTER.
DOING BETTER. I MEAN, MAYBE --
I MEAN, MAYBE -- >> DO YOU HAVE STATISTICS ON
>> DO YOU HAVE STATISTICS ON THAT AT ALL, MELISSA?
THAT AT ALL, MELISSA? >> NO, I DON'T.
>> NO, I DON'T. BUT ONE THING THAT DOES COME TO
BUT ONE THING THAT DOES COME TO MIND IS THAT RECIDIVISM FOR
MIND IS THAT RECIDIVISM FOR ANYBODY, AND ESPECIALLY FOR
ANYBODY, AND ESPECIALLY FOR WOMEN, IF THEY ARE GOING TO GO
WOMEN, IF THEY ARE GOING TO GO BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY, INTO
BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY, INTO THE HOME THAT THEY CAME FROM,
THE HOME THAT THEY CAME FROM, AND THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY
AND THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY TYPE OF TREATMENT AT ALL,
TYPE OF TREATMENT AT ALL, THENEER' GOING TO BE BACK.
THENEER' GOING TO BE BACK. THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT.
THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT. THE MAJORITY OF WOMEN WHO GET
THE MAJORITY OF WOMEN WHO GET INCARCERATED HAVE SOME LINK TO
INCARCERATED HAVE SOME LINK TO SUBSTANCE USE OR ABUSE, A MUCH
SUBSTANCE USE OR ABUSE, A MUCH HIGHER RATE THAN DO MEN WHO ARE
HIGHER RATE THAN DO MEN WHO ARE INCARCERATED.
INCARCERATED. MANY TIMES WHEN THEY DO GET INTO
MANY TIMES WHEN THEY DO GET INTO LEGAL TROUBLE, THEY ARE
LEGAL TROUBLE, THEY ARE CONNECTED WITH A MAN WHO IS ALSO
CONNECTED WITH A MAN WHO IS ALSO GETTING INTO TROUBLE AT THE SAME
GETTING INTO TROUBLE AT THE SAME TIME AND THEY'RE WORKING
TIME AND THEY'RE WORKING TOGETHER AND THEY BOTH GET IN
TOGETHER AND THEY BOTH GET IN TROUBLE.
TROUBLE. SO, IF THEY DON'T FIX THAT PART
SO, IF THEY DON'T FIX THAT PART OF IT FOR WOMEN, THEN THEY ARE
OF IT FOR WOMEN, THEN THEY ARE GOING TO BE BACK.
GOING TO BE BACK. SO I'M GLAD TO HERE THAT THOSE
SO I'M GLAD TO HERE THAT THOSE RATES -- HEAR THAT THOSE RATES
RATES -- HEAR THAT THOSE RATES AREN'T AS HIGH AS WHAT YOU
AREN'T AS HIGH AS WHAT YOU THOUGHT THE NATIONAL AVERAGE
THOUGHT THE NATIONAL AVERAGE WAS.
WAS. >> IF INDIANA'S RATE IS CLOSER
>> IF INDIANA'S RATE IS CLOSER TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, IT
TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, IT WOULD SEEM THERE NEEDS TO BE
WOULD SEEM THERE NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING DONE OR SOME SORT OF
SOMETHING DONE OR SOME SORT OF INNOVATIVE PROCESS PUT IN PLACE
INNOVATIVE PROCESS PUT IN PLACE TO TRY TO BRING THAT DOWN IF
TO TRY TO BRING THAT DOWN IF INDIANA WANTS TO BE SEEN AS A
INDIANA WANTS TO BE SEEN AS A LEADER IN HOW IT'S TREATING ITS
LEADER IN HOW IT'S TREATING ITS FEMALE POPULATION.
FEMALE POPULATION. ARE THERE ANY MODELS THAT THE
ARE THERE ANY MODELS THAT THE STATE COULD FOLLOW THAT WOULD
STATE COULD FOLLOW THAT WOULD TRY TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL?
TRY TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL? >> I MEAN, I DO KNOW THAT A LOT
>> I MEAN, I DO KNOW THAT A LOT OF STATES ARE TRYING TO DO MORE
OF STATES ARE TRYING TO DO MORE COMMUNITY CORRECTIONS.
COMMUNITY CORRECTIONS. SO GETTING FOLKS ON A GPS UNIT,
SO GETTING FOLKS ON A GPS UNIT, AN ANKLE UNIT, SO THAT THEY CAN
AN ANKLE UNIT, SO THAT THEY CAN STAY IN THEIR HOMES, AND REALLY
STAY IN THEIR HOMES, AND REALLY LOOKING AT THOSE LOW-LEVEL,
LOOKING AT THOSE LOW-LEVEL, LOW-RISK AND CLASSIFYING AND
LOW-RISK AND CLASSIFYING AND KNOWING HOW TO CLASSIFY FOLKS.
KNOWING HOW TO CLASSIFY FOLKS. SO IF WE KNOW SHE'S LOW RISK AND
SO IF WE KNOW SHE'S LOW RISK AND NONVIOLENT CRIME, AND KEEP HER
NONVIOLENT CRIME, AND KEEP HER IN HER HOME WITH SOME GPS UNITS.
IN HER HOME WITH SOME GPS UNITS. I KNOW THAT COMMUNITY
I KNOW THAT COMMUNITY CORRECTIONS PIECE IS A REAL PUSH
CORRECTIONS PIECE IS A REAL PUSH IN A LOT OF OTHER STATES.
IN A LOT OF OTHER STATES. I THINK INDIANA IS -- I THINK
I THINK INDIANA IS -- I THINK IT'S NOT THAT THEY ARE NOT
IT'S NOT THAT THEY ARE NOT TRYING.
TRYING. I THINK THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY
I THINK THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY ONES.
ONES. THE WEE ONES IS A WONDERFUL
THE WEE ONES IS A WONDERFUL PROGRAM.
PROGRAM. I KNOW THAT THEY ARE REALLY
I KNOW THAT THEY ARE REALLY FOCUSING ON REENTRY AS ANOTHER
FOCUSING ON REENTRY AS ANOTHER PIECE OF IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE
PIECE OF IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD.
THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD. I THINK WE'RE MOVING IN THAT
I THINK WE'RE MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION.
DIRECTION. DEFINITELY.
DEFINITELY. BUT I THINK THIS IS A REALLY
BUT I THINK THIS IS A REALLY KIND OF A NEW POPULATION FOR THE
KIND OF A NEW POPULATION FOR THE COUNTRY IN GENERAL.
COUNTRY IN GENERAL. THIS MASS INCARCERATION OF
THIS MASS INCARCERATION OF WOMEN.
WOMEN. WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE WE KNOW A
WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE WE KNOW A LOT OF WOMEN, LOT OF MENTALLY
LOT OF WOMEN, LOT OF MENTALLY ILL WOMEN, WERE IN STATE
ILL WOMEN, WERE IN STATE HOSPITALS.
HOSPITALS. THEY WERE UNDER A DIFFERENT KIND
THEY WERE UNDER A DIFFERENT KIND OF INSTITUTION AS IT WERE.
OF INSTITUTION AS IT WERE. SO I THINK WE'RE GETTING IT, I
SO I THINK WE'RE GETTING IT, I DO, AND I THINK IT'S A WONDERFUL
DO, AND I THINK IT'S A WONDERFUL THING TO SEE.
THING TO SEE. I JUST -- JUST KEEP MOVING ALONG
I JUST -- JUST KEEP MOVING ALONG THIS CONTINUUM.
THIS CONTINUUM. I THINK THAT WE'RE SEEING
I THINK THAT WE'RE SEEING PROGRESS.
PROGRESS. >> WE'VE TOUCHED IN KIND OF
>> WE'VE TOUCHED IN KIND OF GENERAL WAYS ABOUT THE DRUG
GENERAL WAYS ABOUT THE DRUG PROBLEM IN INDIANA, AND THIS
PROBLEM IN INDIANA, AND THIS AFFECTS A LOT OF PEOPLE, BOTH
AFFECTS A LOT OF PEOPLE, BOTH GENDERS.
GENDERS. AS FAR AS WOMEN GO, THOUGH, ONE
AS FAR AS WOMEN GO, THOUGH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STATE
OF THE THINGS THAT STATE LAWMAKERS ARE TALKING ABOUT IS
LAWMAKERS ARE TALKING ABOUT IS DECRIMINALIZING OR LOWERING THE
DECRIMINALIZING OR LOWERING THE SENTENCES FOR SOME DRUG
SENTENCES FOR SOME DRUG POSSESSION, DRUG USE CHARGES.
POSSESSION, DRUG USE CHARGES. ALLISON, LET ME ASK YOU, HOW IF,
ALLISON, LET ME ASK YOU, HOW IF, FOR INSTANCE, THEY DID WHAT
FOR INSTANCE, THEY DID WHAT BRENT STEELE, THE BEDFORD
BRENT STEELE, THE BEDFORD SENATOR WANTS TO DO AND YOU
SENATOR WANTS TO DO AND YOU DECRIMINALIZE SOME FORMS OF
DECRIMINALIZE SOME FORMS OF MARIJUANA POSSESSION, HOW WOULD
MARIJUANA POSSESSION, HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT THE CLIENTELE YOU
THAT AFFECT THE CLIENTELE YOU SEE?
SEE? >> WELL, IT WOULD LOWER THE
>> WELL, IT WOULD LOWER THE NUMBER OF WOMEN THAT WE HAVE ON
NUMBER OF WOMEN THAT WE HAVE ON THOSE LOWER-LEVEL POSSESSION
THOSE LOWER-LEVEL POSSESSION CHARGES.
CHARGES. AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S
AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S SOMEONE ELSE'S ISSUE AS TO
SOMEONE ELSE'S ISSUE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY DO, BUT IT
WHETHER OR NOT THEY DO, BUT IT WILL LOWER THE NUMBERS OF WOMEN
WILL LOWER THE NUMBERS OF WOMEN THAT COME IN, ESPECIALLY SOME OF
THAT COME IN, ESPECIALLY SOME OF THE WOMEN THAT I SEE A LOT OF ON
THE WOMEN THAT I SEE A LOT OF ON THE WOMEN'S NURSERY UNIT,
THE WOMEN'S NURSERY UNIT, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TIME FRAMES,
BECAUSE THEY HAVE TIME FRAMES, THEY CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH TIME TO
THEY CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH TIME TO BE IN THAT PROGRAM BECAUSE WE'RE
BE IN THAT PROGRAM BECAUSE WE'RE NOT EQUIPPED TO GO OVER A
NOT EQUIPPED TO GO OVER A CERTAIN AGE WITH THE CHILDREN.
CERTAIN AGE WITH THE CHILDREN. SO IT MAY LOWER THE NUMBERS THAT
SO IT MAY LOWER THE NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE OF THE -- AS SHANNON
WE HAVE OF THE -- AS SHANNON SAID, THE LOWER LEVEL FELONIES.
SAID, THE LOWER LEVEL FELONIES. IT MAY LOWER THE NUMBER OF LOWER
IT MAY LOWER THE NUMBER OF LOWER LEVEL NUMBER OF FELONY WOMEN WE
LEVEL NUMBER OF FELONY WOMEN WE HAVE IN HERE.
HAVE IN HERE. SO THAT WOULD, I GUESS, STEM THE
SO THAT WOULD, I GUESS, STEM THE GROWTH OF THE NUMBER OF WOMEN
GROWTH OF THE NUMBER OF WOMEN THAT ARE INCARCERATED.
THAT ARE INCARCERATED. >> I THINK YOU BRING UP A GOOD
>> I THINK YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT ABOUT THE LOWER LEVEL --
POINT ABOUT THE LOWER LEVEL -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT C AND D
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT C AND D FELONIES VERSUS A AND B
FELONIES VERSUS A AND B FELONIES.
FELONIES. MELISSA, LET'S TALK NUMBERS
MELISSA, LET'S TALK NUMBERS AGAIN FOR A SECOND IN THE LAST
AGAIN FOR A SECOND IN THE LAST COUPLE MINUTES OF THE PROGRAM.
COUPLE MINUTES OF THE PROGRAM. IF YOU'RE DOING THINGS LIKE
IF YOU'RE DOING THINGS LIKE DECRIMINALIZING OR LOWERING THE
DECRIMINALIZING OR LOWERING THE SENTENCES FOR THESE LOWER LEVEL
SENTENCES FOR THESE LOWER LEVEL FELONIES, HOW DOES THAT CHANGE
FELONIES, HOW DOES THAT CHANGE THE POPULATION IN A PRISON AT
THE POPULATION IN A PRISON AT LARGE, OR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
LARGE, OR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PUSHED THROUGH A CRIMINAL
PUSHED THROUGH A CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM?
JUSTICE SYSTEM? >> WELL, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS
>> WELL, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS GOING -- IS ACTUALLY -- IS A
GOING -- IS ACTUALLY -- IS A PROBLEM IS THAT THESE
PROBLEM IS THAT THESE INSTITUTIONS ARE BUILT AND ARE
INSTITUTIONS ARE BUILT AND ARE ABLE TO HOLD A CERTAIN NUMBER OF
ABLE TO HOLD A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PEOPLE, AND UNFORTUNATELY IN
PEOPLE, AND UNFORTUNATELY IN PRISONS IF THERE'S A BED THEY'RE
PRISONS IF THERE'S A BED THEY'RE GOING TO FIND SOMEBODY TO FILL
GOING TO FIND SOMEBODY TO FILL IT.
IT. HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HEAR OF
HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HEAR OF PRISONS ACTUALLY CLOSING?
PRISONS ACTUALLY CLOSING? I KNOW THERE'S A PRISON IN
I KNOW THERE'S A PRISON IN ILLINOIS RIGHT NOW THEY'RE
ILLINOIS RIGHT NOW THEY'RE TRYING TO CLOSE AND THEY'RE
TRYING TO CLOSE AND THEY'RE HAVING A LOT OF BACKLASH ON
HAVING A LOT OF BACKLASH ON THAT.
THAT. SO IF THEY DO, AND STATISTICS
SO IF THEY DO, AND STATISTICS SHOW BY LOOKING AT THE DOC WEB
SHOW BY LOOKING AT THE DOC WEB SITE THAT THE MAJORITY OF WOMEN
SITE THAT THE MAJORITY OF WOMEN WHO ARE INCARCERATED IN INDIANA
WHO ARE INCARCERATED IN INDIANA ARE CLASS D FELONS.
ARE CLASS D FELONS. THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT.
THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT. I MEAN, THE MAJORITY OF THEM.
I MEAN, THE MAJORITY OF THEM. AND WHAT IF THEY ARE EVEN --
AND WHAT IF THEY ARE EVEN -- EVEN JUST HALF OF THOSE ARE
EVEN JUST HALF OF THOSE ARE CONVICTED OF SOME CRIME THAT
CONVICTED OF SOME CRIME THAT ENDS UP BEING NOT NECESSARILY
ENDS UP BEING NOT NECESSARILY DECRIMINALIZED, BUT LOWERED IN
DECRIMINALIZED, BUT LOWERED IN SEVERITY AND PUNISHMENT, THEN
SEVERITY AND PUNISHMENT, THEN DOES THAT MEAN THEY'RE NOT GOING
DOES THAT MEAN THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT BIG CHUNK OF PEOPLE
TO HAVE THAT BIG CHUNK OF PEOPLE ANYMORE?
ANYMORE? WE DON'T WANT THE INCARCERATION
WE DON'T WANT THE INCARCERATION RATES TO GO UP EITHER, BUT
RATES TO GO UP EITHER, BUT THERE'S ANOTHER SIDE OF IT THAT
THERE'S ANOTHER SIDE OF IT THAT SAYS THAT WE KIND OF DON'T WANT
SAYS THAT WE KIND OF DON'T WANT IT TO GO DOWN EITHER BECAUSE
IT TO GO DOWN EITHER BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START LOSING
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START LOSING THEIR JOBS AND THAT'S A WHOLE
THEIR JOBS AND THAT'S A WHOLE ANOTHER SEGMENT, I BELIEVE.
ANOTHER SEGMENT, I BELIEVE. >> SHANNON, LET ME ASK YOU, WE
>> SHANNON, LET ME ASK YOU, WE HAVE ABOUT 90 SECONDS, LET ME
HAVE ABOUT 90 SECONDS, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT IDEA OF
ASK YOU ABOUT THAT IDEA OF TALKING TO LAWMAKERS ABOUT, HEY,
TALKING TO LAWMAKERS ABOUT, HEY, WE NEED TO CHANGE WHAT SOME OF
WE NEED TO CHANGE WHAT SOME OF THESE SENTENCING GUIDELINES ARE
THESE SENTENCING GUIDELINES ARE BUT AT THE SAME TIME AS YOU
BUT AT THE SAME TIME AS YOU POINTED OUT EARLIER THERE STILL
POINTED OUT EARLIER THERE STILL NEEDS TO BE A PENALTY IN PLACE,
NEEDS TO BE A PENALTY IN PLACE, PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW YOU CAN DO
PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW YOU CAN DO WRONG AND BE PUNISHED.
WRONG AND BE PUNISHED. HOW DO YOU WEIGH GOING TO THE
HOW DO YOU WEIGH GOING TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE IN JANUARY
STATE LEGISLATURE IN JANUARY WHEN THE SESSION BEGINS AND
WHEN THE SESSION BEGINS AND SAYING WE NEED TO MAKE CHANGES
SAYING WE NEED TO MAKE CHANGES VERSUS THEM TELLING YOU WE HAVE
VERSUS THEM TELLING YOU WE HAVE TO LOCK UP THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
TO LOCK UP THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BAD?
BAD? >> I THINK -- I MEAN, REALLY,
>> I THINK -- I MEAN, REALLY, IT'S ABOUT EDUCATION.
IT'S ABOUT EDUCATION. AGAIN, IT'S WHAT IS THAT PROFILE
AGAIN, IT'S WHAT IS THAT PROFILE OF THAT WOMAN WHO IS
OF THAT WOMAN WHO IS INCARCERATED.
INCARCERATED. A BIG PIECE OF THIS, IF YOU ARE
A BIG PIECE OF THIS, IF YOU ARE GOING TO LOWER THE RATES OF
GOING TO LOWER THE RATES OF WHATEVER THE SENTENCES --
WHATEVER THE SENTENCES -- SENTENCINGS ARE FOR WOMEN, YOU
SENTENCINGS ARE FOR WOMEN, YOU ALSO NEED TO HAVE SERVICES TO
ALSO NEED TO HAVE SERVICES TO BACK THAT UP BECAUSE YOU CAN'T
BACK THAT UP BECAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, OKAY, WE'RE NOT GOING
JUST SAY, OKAY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEND HER TO PRISON, WE'RE
TO SEND HER TO PRISON, WE'RE GOING TO PUT HER BACK IN THE
GOING TO PUT HER BACK IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT YOU NEED TO PUT
COMMUNITY, BUT YOU NEED TO PUT HER BACK IN THE COMMUNITY WITH
HER BACK IN THE COMMUNITY WITH SERVICES, SUBSTANCE ABUSE
SERVICES, SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT THAT'S AFFORDABLE,
TREATMENT THAT'S AFFORDABLE, ACCESSIBLE, TRAUMA RECOVERY
ACCESSIBLE, TRAUMA RECOVERY SERVICES ACCESSIBLE, VOCATIONAL
SERVICES ACCESSIBLE, VOCATIONAL PROGRAMS WHERE THEY CAN MAKE A
PROGRAMS WHERE THEY CAN MAKE A LIVING WAGE.
LIVING WAGE. THERE HAS TO BE THAT.
THERE HAS TO BE THAT. YOU CAN'T JUST CHANGE IT AND,
YOU CAN'T JUST CHANGE IT AND, OKAY, PUSH THEM OUT.
OKAY, PUSH THEM OUT. YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE ISSUE OF
YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE ISSUE OF HOW DO I DO DIFFERENT AND THEY
HOW DO I DO DIFFERENT AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE THAT PIECE OF
HAVE TO HAVE THAT PIECE OF SERVICES INVOLVED.
SERVICES INVOLVED. >> MY THANK YOU TO ALL THREE OF
>> MY THANK YOU TO ALL THREE OF YOU FOR BEING HERE.
YOU FOR BEING HERE. YOU'VE BEEN A BIG HELP.
YOU'VE BEEN A BIG HELP. IT'S A WIDE ISSUE BUT YOU'VE
IT'S A WIDE ISSUE BUT YOU'VE DONE A GOOD JOB ENCAPSULATING
DONE A GOOD JOB ENCAPSULATING SOME OF IT.
SOME OF IT. THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR TONIGHT.
THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR TONIGHT. SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS
SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS FOR NEXT MONTH AT
FOR NEXT MONTH AT infocus@indiana.edu.
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IndianaPublicMedia.org/InFocus. HAVE A NICE NIGHT.