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>> WEL
COME TO "JOY IN OUR TOWN."
I'M YOUR HOST PAUL MITCHELL AND
OUR TOPIC TODAY IS CRIME.
WE ARE ALSO GOING TO BE DEALING
WITH SPECIFICALLY HUMAN
TRAFFICKING IN NEW YORK CITY,
VERY INTERESTING AND OBSCURE
SUBJECT.
WE ARE JOINED TODAY BY THE
FOUNDER OF WALK BY
FAITH,
MICHAEL MATTHEW GROCE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING ON
THE SHOW.
SO, WHAT IS HUMAN TRAFFICKING?
WE WERE TALKING A LITTLE BIT
EARLIER AND I SAID I DIDN'T KNOW
HUMAN TRAFFICKING WAS SO
PREVALENT HERE IN NEW YORK CITY.
WHY DON'T YOU FIRST START O
UT BY
TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS HUMAN
TRAFFICKING?
>> HUMAN TRAFFICKING IS ONE OF
THE MOST ILLEGAL -- GOING ON IN
THE WORLD TODAY AND IT'S DEALING
WITH YOUNG TEACH -- TEENAGERS.
THEY ARE
TRICKED BECAUSE THEY
ARE OFFERED JOBS AND OFFER TO
TRAVEL SO BASICALLY WHAT GOES ON
WITH HUMAN TRAFFICKING IS THEY
ARE BEING OFFERED FOR ***
ACTS AND SOME OF THEM DON'T HAVE
THE POWER TO SAY NO.
THEY GET INTO DEEP
AND SOMETIMES
AT THEIR FAMILY SO SOMETIMES
WHEN THEY GET IN THEY DON'T KNOW
HOW TO GET OUT.
HUMAN TRAFFICKING IS JUST A
PROFITABLE BUSINESS THAT HAS
BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME.
>> WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF HUMAN
TRAFFICKING ON THE VICTIMS?
WHAT IS THE EFFECT ON THEM?
>> THERE ARE MANY EFFECTS.
FOR EXAMPLE DEPRESSION.
SOME OF THEM WHEN THEY ARE IN SO
LONG AS WHEN THEY GET OUT THEIR
MINDSET IS SO DIFFERENT AND THEY
HAVE A QUESTION OF DEALING WITH
TRUST ISSUES NIDA WANT TO FEEL
OPEN ANY MORE.
THEY GAVE THEIR TRUSTED THIS
PERSON AND THEY VIOLATED THEM IN
THE WR
ONG WAY.
IS POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS
SYNDROME FOR EXAMPLE SO THERE
ARE MANY EFFECTS THAT COME FROMâ–
THIS ONE ACT OF HUMAN
TRAFFICKING.
>> AND MANY OF THE WOMEN THAT
YOU HAVE COME IN CONTACT WITH
AND DID RESEARCH ON, ARE THESE
WOMEN TRYING TO ESC
APE AFTER
BEING INVOLVED WITH THIS MARKET
OR DO THEY JUST STAY IN THE
BUSINESS?
>> MOST OF THEM TRY TO ESCAPE
BUT IT'S SO DANGEROUS THAT WHEN
THEY TRIED TO ESCAPE, WHEN THEY
TRY TO ESCAPE IT
SO DANGEROUS
THEY THREATEN TO CUT OFF THEIR
ARM.
MOST OF THEM STAY IN IT BUT IN
THEIR HEART THEY WANT TO BE ABLE
TO COME OUT OF IT.
>> TELL ME THIS.
HOW WAS IT IN NEW YORK CITY?
WHAT IS THE IMPACT?
HOW IS IT PREVALENT IN NEW YORK
CITY?
>> THE IMPACT IS GREAT IN NEW
YORK CITY BUT I DON'T THINK THAT
IT'S OPEN TO EVERYBODY BECAUSE I
DON'T THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW
MUCH ABOUT HUMAN TRAFFICKING.
THERE WAS A FAMILY IN QUEENS WHO
WAS DOING HUMAN TRAFFICK
ING AND
NOBODY REALLY KNEW.
THEY POSTED FLYERS BUT IT WAS
ONLY WHEN THE GOT CAUGHT THE
PEOPLE KNEW.
I HAVE TO SAY HUMAN TRAFFICKING
DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A HEARTBEAT
IN NEW YORK CITY.
WE FOCUS ON CANCER AND WE FOCUS
ON EIGHTH BUT THIS I
S AS
INSIDIOUS AS AIDS AND CANCER AND
ANY OTHER DISEASE.
WE NEED TO GET THE WORD OUT TO
LET PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT IT.
>> HOW DIFFERENT IS HUMAN
TRAFFICKING FROM PROSTITUTION
AND HOW DOES THAT CORRELATE?
>> I HAVE TO SAY THE KIND OF
CORRELATION IS BEING USED
AGAINST THEIR WILL.
SOME PEOPLE FEEL, MAYBE THEIR
MOTHER WAS AN PROSTITUTION SO
THE CHILD FEELS LIKE IF MY
MOTHER DID IT, I WILL DO
IT.
THEY LOOK AT THE AT THE HOUR PAT
WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE INWARD
PART.
THE FACT THAT THERE IS MONEY
INVOLVED, THAT IS WHY I THINK
THE CORRELATION WITH MOST OF
THEM AS.
>> SO ARE THERE ANY LAWS IN NEW
YORK CITY
ABOUT HUMAN
TRAFFICKING?
>> ONE OF THE LAWS IS THE NEW
YORK ANTITRAFFICKING LAW WHICH
WENT INTO EFFECT IN NOVEMBER OF
2007.
IT SAYS IT IS A CLASS D. FEL
ONY
AND YOU GET UP TO 25 YEARS IN
PRISON.
YOU ALSO HAVE TO PAY $5000 TO
THE DEFENDANT OR DOUBLE WHAT
THEY MADE.
IT GETS KIND OF LENIENT IN A WAY
BECAUSE
TRAFFICKING IS -- WHERE
LABOR TRAFFICKING IS SEVEN YEARS
IN PRISON BUT IT STILL HAS THE
SAME OUTCOME.
YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY BACK YOUR
DEFENDANT.
THERE ARE LAWS FOR THIS BUT
THERE NEED TO BE MORE TOUGHER
LAWS FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WERE
DOING IT.
MOST OF THEM A
RE NOT AFRAID.
>> IF CONVICTED OF HUMAN
TRAFFICKING THE MAXIMUM
PUNISHMENT IS 25 YEARS?
>> YES, 25 YEARS.
>> WOW.
WATERWAYS TO PREVENT HUMAN
TRAFFICKING?
I KNOW THAT YOU ARE ACTIVELY OUT
THERE WORKING ON THAT AND WE
WILL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT IN THE
SECOND OF WHAT ARE SOME OF THE
WAYS WE CAN PREVENT HUMAN
TRAFFICKING?
>> I THINK BY SPEAKING OUT.
A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS FOR
EXAMPLE, THEY CAN CALL 311 AND
THEY HAVE DIFFERENT HOTLINES.
YOU CAN TRY TO STOP IT OR
PREVENT IT THAT THESE RESOURCES
ARE NOT REALLY AVAILABLE AS THEY
SHOULD BE SO MOST PEOPLE DON'T
KNOW ABOUT IT.
IT'S UP TO US TO TRY TO GET THE
WOR
D OUT SO PEOPLE KNOW.
EVEN IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO WHO
IS IN THAT IT DOESN'T HURT TO
TRY TO HELP THEM.
THEY WANT TO COME OUT BUT THEY
DON'T KNOW HOW TO.
>> HUMAN TRAFFICKING IS A LITTLE
BIT DIFFERENT THAN PROSTITUTION
IN THE
FACT THAT IT'S
INTERSTATE, RIGHT?
THEY ARE BRINGING PEOPLE INTO
NEW YORK CITY FROM OTHER AREAS
AND THAT IS WHY THESE WOMEN ARE
NOT FAMILIAR WITH NEW YORK AND
THEY ARE UNDER THE CONTROL OF
WHOEVER IS BRINGING THEM AND.
TELL
US ABOUT WALK BY FAITH AND
WHAT THAT HAS.
>> WALK BY FAITH IS LIKE OUR ONE
YEAR ANNIVERSARY AND THE FOCUS
OF THAT, WHEN WE STARTED, WAS TO
RAISE AWARENESS AND RAISE
FUNDS.
LAST YEAR WE FOCUSED ON AUTISM.
AUTISM IS A NEURODEVELOPMENTAL
PROBLEM.
WE RAISE FUNDS FOR NONPROFIT
ORGANIZATIONS AND WE ARE STILL
WORKING CLOSELY WITH THEM BUT
THE FOCUS HAS CHANGED BECAUSE WE
DID THE DISABILITY PART BUT NOW
THEY WANT TO DO THE SOCIAL
INJUSTICE.
>> HOW DID YOU GET INVOLVED?
YOU SEEM LIKE A VERY YOUNG
FELLOW.
MOST OF THE TIME PEOPLE DO NOT
LAUNCH INITIATIVES UNLESS THEY
HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
WHAT WAS YOURS?
>> I HAD FRIENDS WHO DID PAPERS
ON HUMAN
TRAFFICKING.
I WASN'T INTERESTED BEFORE BUT
NOW I FEEL SOME PEOPLE ARE
MURDERED AND KILLED SO IT'S JUST
SOMETHING THAT I BECAME VERY
PASSIONATE ABOUT IT WANTED TO
GET THE WORD OUT.
>> WHAT IS YOUR NEXT BIG
INITIATIVE, YOUR NEXT BIG PUSH
TO RAISE AWARENESS ON HUMAN
TRAFFICKING AND INTERVENTIONS?
WHAT YOU HAVE ON THE DOCKET?
>> THE NEXT THING, I'M WORKING
ON A PLAY IN THE NAME OF THE
PLAY IS I PRAY THE LORD MY SOUL
TO TAKE.
WE WANT TO DO THAT PROBABLY IN
MARCH OR APRIL OF NEXT YEAR.
IT'S ABOUT A GIRL WHO LIVED WITH
A GOOD FAMILY AND THEY OFFERED
HER A JOB, TRAVELING SO SHE WENT
INTO IT AND SHE DIDN'T KNOW
EXACTLY WHAT WAS BEHIND IT
.
SHE GOT INTO HUMAN TRAFFICKING.
>> THEY OFFERED HER A JOB OF
TRAVELING.
HOW DOES THAT FLY A?
IF SOMEONE SAID HEY I'M GOING TO
GIVE YOU A JOB TRAVELING I'VE BE
LIKE WHAT?
OUT OF A PACKAGE THAT?
>> THEY PACKAGE IT BY SAYING I
COULD SHOW YOU THE WHOLE WORLD.
I COULD TAKE YOU TO NEW YORK FOR
EXAMPLE AND TAKE YOU ALL AROUND
THE WORLD AND I CAN GIVE YOU
MONEY.
I CAN GIVE YOU STUFF THAT YOUR
FAMILY PROBABLY CANNOT PROVIDE
FOR USE SO PEOPLE LISTEN TO THAT
AND THEY GET ENTICED BY IT.
SOME PEOPLE REALLY WA
NT WHAT
THEY ARE PROVIDING WITH OUT
KNOWING WHAT'S REALLY BEHIND IT.
>> WHEN THEY OFFERED THESE
THINGS DO THEY TELL THEM THERE
WILL BE IN EXCHANGE FOR ***
FAVORS?
>> NO THEY DON'T TELL THEM THAT.
ONLY UNTIL THEY GET IN IT DO
FIND OUT.
>> A LOT OF THE HUMAN
TRAFFICKING, ONCE THEY GET THE
PERSON OR PERSONS, THEY BEEN GET
THEM HOOKED ON SOME DRUG TO
CREATE
CHEMICAL PROBLEMS.
>> MOST OF THEM, OPM, THEIR
DRUGS THEY PUT INSIDE THEIR
SYSTEM SO THEY DON'T REALLY KNOW
WHAT'S GOING ON.
THEY DEPRIVE THEM OF SLEEP AND
THEY HAVE BEING DISORDERS.
THERE ARE MANY HEALTH RISKS TIED
UP WITH TRAFFICKING.
>> WOW, SO YOU FIND THAT MANY OF
THESE YOUNG PEOPLE YOU ARE
COMING INTO CONTACT WITH HAVE
DRUG DEPENDENCIES AS WELL?
>> YEAH.
>> THAT IS ONE WAY THAT THEY
KEEP THEM ENGAGED IN
TRAFFICKING.
NOW WHAT WOULD YOU TELL
THE
AUDIENCE, UP TO A FEW MILLION
PEOPLE NOW, WHAT WOULD YOU TELL
THE AUDIENCE TO DO IF THEY
BECAME AWARE OF A HUMAN
TRAFFICKING SITUATION IN YOUR
NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY ARE BUILDING
OR THEIR BLOCK, WHAT SHOULD THEY
DO?
>> HOW DO THEY
EVEN RECOGNIZE
IT?
>> THEY CAN CONTACT 911 OR 311.
THERE ARE MANY ORGANIZATIONS
THAT ARE OUT THERE.
>> THE EASIEST THING TO DO IS
WALK?
>> CALL 911 AND THEY HAVE
DIFFERENT HOTLINES FOR EXAMPLE
YOU CAN CALL.
THEY WILL TELL YOU HOW TO BRING
THE PERSON OUT OF IT.
>> WE HAVE 30 SECONDS LEFT.
I WANT YOU TO LOOK INTO THAT
CAMERA R
IGHT THERE AND I WANT
YOU TO TALK TO PEOPLE IN OUR
AUDIENCE THAT POSSIBLY HAVE LOST
A CHILD TO HUMAN TRAFFICKING.
WHAT SHOULD THEY DO?
>> IF
YOU ARE A VICTIM OF HUMAN
TRAFFICKING, YOU YOU WERE NOT BY
YOURSELF.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT
THERE WHO ARE PUSHING FOR YOU
AND WE HAVE RESOURCES.
WE WANT ME TO COME OUT AND WE
WANT EVERYONE TO LIVE A POSITIVE
LIFE.
CHILDREN OF GOD AND PEOPLE
LIVING IN THE
STATE.
IT'S UP TO US TO BRING THEM OUT.
YOU ARE NOT BY YOURSELF AND
THERE IS ALWAYS HOPE AROUND AND
WE WILL HELP YOU IN ANYWAY ANY
WAY BE CAN.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, MICHAEL
MATTHEW GROCE, WALK BY FAITH.
IT'S A PLEASURE INTERVIEWING
YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> YOU ARE WATCHING "JOY IN OUR
TOWN."
>> I WANT
TO BE IN THE MILITARY
SINCE I WAS A KID.
>> I SERVED IN THE UNITED UNITED
STATES AIR FORCE.
>> I SERVED A TOTAL OF 15 YEARS.
>> I WAS THERE 13 TIMES.
'S BEEF FOR BONDS HIT MY VEHICLE
AND AT 19 YEARS
OLD --
>> COMING BACK I WAS RAGING.
>> I STARTED HAVING HORRIBLE
NIGHTMARES.
>> I WOKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF
THE NIGHT WITH.
>> I STARTED DRINKING.
>> I GUESS I NEVER RECOGNIZED IT
IN MYSELF.
>> ONE DAY I WALKED INTO THE VA
HOSPITAL AND SAID I WOULD LIKE
TO SEE SOMEBODY.
>> DON'T SUFFER ALONE.
YOU HAVE TO FIND THAT LINK WITH
SOMEBODY.
>> THERE'S A WHOLE COMMUNITY OF
VETERANS THAT JUST WANT TO HELP
YOU OUT.
>> FOR THE GUYS WHO COULDN'T
COME BACK THAT YOU OWE TO THEM
TO LIVE WELL.
>> SO MANY KIDS ACTIVITIES TODAY
SEEM TO LEAVE OUT THE ACTIVITY
PART.
NEW RESEARCH
TELLS US CHILDREN
WALKING AN EXTRA 35 MINUTES A
DAY STRENGTHENS BONES LATER IN
LIFE.
ENCOURAGE YOUR KIDS TO GET UP,
GET OUT AND GET MOVING.
>> HEY GRANDMA HOW ABOUT
ANOTHER --
>> PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE ON
BUILDING STRONG BONES FOR KIDS
FROM THE FOURTH OF -- ORTHOPEDIC
ACADEMY AND ORTHOPEDIC SURGEONS.
>> WELL COMBAT WELCOME BACK TO
"JOY IN OUR TOWN."
I'M YOUR
HOST, PAUL MITCHELL AND
OUR TOPIC TODAY IS SUBSTANCE
ABUSE.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT MAKES
AN ADDICT.
WE ARE JOINED TODAY BY THE
AUTHOR OF "THE PROBLEM WAS ME,"
THOMAS GAGLIANO.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING
WITH
US ON "JOY IN OUR TOWN."
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> THIS IS A FASCINATING
SUBJECT, NOT ONLY FASCINATING TO
US BUT IT HAS THAT IMPACTED SO
MANY PEOPLE IN OUR FAMILIES AND
IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
WHAT ARE THE FACTORS I
N
CHILDHOOD?
I'M TRYING TO GET TO THE GENESIS
THAT CONTRIBUTES TO ADDICTIVE
THINKING.
>> THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IS
WHETHER OR NOT THE CHILD GROWS
UP IN A --
HOUSEHOLD.
IF THE CHILD
LEARNS THAT
ADDICTION IS A WAY TO COPE WITH
PROBLEMS AND CELEBRATE
VICTORIES, IF HIS PARENTS ARE
ADDICTS THE CHILD WILL HAVE THIS
LEARNED BEHAVIOR THAT THE
ADDICTION BECOMES THE SOLUTION
TO LIFE.
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO
UNDERSTAND HUMAN
DEVELOPMENT
FIRST OF ALL.
CHILDREN ARE EGOCENTRIC AND THE
WORLD REVOLVES AROUND THEM.
IF A PARENT DOESN'T GIVE A CHILD
PROPER NURTURING OUR ATTENTION
THE CHILD DOESN'T HAVE THE
ABILITY TO SAY OH COMPANY MY
FATHER OR MOTHER OR AUNT OR
UNCLE ARE BUSY.
INSTEAD THEY SAY WH
AT'S WRONG
WITH ME?
I'M DEFECTIVE AND I'M NOT WORTH
THE.
IF YOU THROW ON TOP OF THAT
PHYSICAL, MENTAL OR ***
ABUSES, WELL THERE'S GOING TO BE
REAL DAMAGE THEIR AND THAT
DAMAGE NEEDS TO BE FIXED AT SOME
POINT OR THERE WILL BE
DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR THAT
FOLLOWS.
I CAN TELL YOU FROM ME, LITTLE
BIT ABOUT MYSELF AND A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT MY EXPERIENCE HELPING
MANY THOUSANDS OF ADDICTS.
ADDICTS, SOMEWHERE IN THEIR
CHILDHOOD, SOMETHING SOME THINGS
HAPPENED TO THEM.
THEY BECOME LEGITIMATE
VICTIMS.
THEY DEVELOP THIS VICTIM
MENTALITY I CALL IT OR THIS
VICTIM ROLE WHERE THEY WANT THE
WORLD TO PAY THE BILLS FOR THEM
AND WHEN THE WORLD DOESN'T
COOPERATE, THEY BECOME VERY
ANGRY.
PEOPLE ARE NOT REALLY EVER GOING
TO GET CLOSE TO THEM.
FROM THEIR ENTITLEMENT OCCURS
WHERE THEY GIVE THEMSELVES
PERMISSIONS TO ACT IN WAYS WHERE
THEY HURT THEMSELVES AND OTHERS.
THE BLUE SYMPATHY FOR THEMSELVES
AND EMPATHY FOR OTHERS.
WHEN THESE THINGS HAPPEN
EVENTUALLY THEY ARE GOING TO GO
INTO ISOLATION AND LEAD A VERY
SECLUDED LIFE.
I CAN TELL YOU FROM ME, IN
CHILDHOOD, MY FATHER WAS AN
ALCOHOLIC AND IF HE CAME HOME AT
A CERTAIN
TIME IT MEANT THAT HE
WOULD COME HOME DRUNK AND IF HE
WAS DRUNK HE WOULD HURT SOMEONE.
THE THING I LEARNED WAS CONTROL
CHARACTERISTICS.
EYED TO MAKE SURE WHEN HE CAME
HOME MY MOTHER WAS IN A SAFE
PLACE AND MY BROTHERS WERE IN A
SAFE PLACE AND I WAS IN A SAFE
PLACE.
CONTROL TO ME AS A KID WAS
LINKED TO SURVIVAL.
IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT AND AS I
GREW UP THE CONTROL WAS A
DEFECT.
PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO BE
CONTROLLED SO WHAT STARTS IN A
CHILDHOOD AS A SELF SURVIVAL
TECHNIQUE LATER BECOMES A
CHARACTER DEFECT.
MANY ADD
ICTS ARE SELFISH PEOPLE,
SELF-CENTERED NOT BECAUSE THEY
WANT TO BE, BECAUSE IN CHILDHOOD
THEY DEVELOPED THE
CHARACTERISTIC THAT I NEED TO
TAKE CARE OF MYSELF AND NOBODY
ELSE WILL.
SO THEY BECOME SELF-CENTERED.
ITS SURVIVAL.
IT'S NOT TO HURT OTHERS.
AS THEY GRO
W OLDER THAT
SELFISHNESS BECOMES THE
CHARACTER DEFECT.
YOU SEE HOW IT STARTS OUT FROM A
SAFETY PLACE BUT THEN BECOMES A
CHARACTER DEFECT.
IF THEY DON'T WORK ON THAT, WHAT
HAPPENS IS THEY ARE JUST GOING
TO GO FROM ONE ADDICTION
TO
ANOTHER, FROM ALCOHOL TO DRUGS
TO GAMBLING AND NOT UNDERSTAND
WHY IT HAPPENED.
WHEN ONE ADDICTION BECOME SO
UNMANAGEABLE THAT YOU CAN'T DO
IT ANYMORE, IF YOU DON'T FIX THE
DAMAGE INSIDE YOU POP TO ANOTHER
ONE AND THAT IS WHAT A LOT OF
PEOPLE DO.
WE KNOW THESE ADDICTS, ACTORS
AND ACTRESS, BRAIN SURGEONS AND
PEOPLE THAT LIVE ON THE STREET.
THE INSIDE IS ALL THE SAME WITH
THE DAMAGE.
>> ARE THERE CERTAIN INSTANCES
WHEN ADDICTION --
[INAUDIBLE]
>> ONE OF THE PERIODS IS DURING
ADOLESCENCE.
A CHILD, WHEN THEY BECOME AN
ADOLESCENT, THE HANDCUFFS COME
OFF.
THEY ARE ABLE
TO GET TO CERTAIN
THINGS THEY COULDN'T GET TO IN
CHILDHOOD AND THAT IS WHEN THE
FREEDOM GETS THEM INTO MORE
TROUBLE.
THE TIME THAT INTENSIFIES AS
DURING RELATIONSHIPS.
INTIMACY MEANS CLOSENESS, LOVE
AND
WARMTH.
IT'S A POSITIVE DEFINITION BUT
NOT FOR CHILDREN WHO GREW UP IN
TOUGH CHILDHOODS.
INTO ME SEE TO THEM AS FEARFUL
AND SCARY AND SOMETHING THEY
WANT TO AVOID BECAUSE THEY HAVE
SEEN THAT CREATE HURT AND PAIN.
SO IF
THAT PERSON GETS TO BECOME
A TEENAGER OR EARLY 20s AND
BECOMES INTIMATE WITH PEOPLE
WHAT ALSO OCCURS IS ANXIETY
BUILDS UP WHICH INTENSIFIES THE
NEED TO GO TO SUBSTANCE TO EASE
THAT PAIN.
SO AGAIN IT'S THE BURST OF
INTIMACY THAT CHILD GETS, VERY
DIFFERENT FROM THE INTIMACY WE
KNOW OF.
AND THE FINAL TIME I BELIEVE
THAT INTENSIFIES AS DURING THE
HOLIDAYS.
THE HOLIDAYS ARE WONDERFUL TIME
OF YEAR FOR MANY OF US BUT FOR
SOME OF US THE HOLIDAYS BRING
UP
UNCOMFORTABLE FEELINGS AS WE GO
BACK TO HER FAMILY OF ORIGIN AND
THE ROLE THAT WAS SET UP TO PLAY
BY THAT FAMILY
YOU DISCUSS THE ROLES THEY ARE
SET UP TO PLAY BY OUR CHILDHOOD
MESSAGES.
TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
ARE ONE OF THESE ROLES THE ROLES
OF AN ACTIVE?
>> I THINK ADDICTS PLAY THE
VICTIM ROLE AND THEY WANT TO
BLAME OTHERS.
IT GIVES THEM TH
E PERMISSION
THAN TO SAY LOOK WHAT THIS WORLD
IS DOING TO ME.
I CAN DO THESE THINGS.
I CAN DRINK MORE AND DO DRUGS
AND DO THESE THINGS.
HOW MANY VIEWERS TODAY ARE
PLAYING THE ROLE OF THE
CARETAKER?
THEY TAKE THE WORLD ON THEIR
BACK IN THE CARETAKER DOESN'T
KNOW HOW TO ASK FOR HELP.
WHEN THEY FEEL -- ASKED FOR HELP
THEY FEEL GUILTY.
THERE ARE PEOPLE PLEASERS.
IS TOO PAINFUL TO SAY NO.
WITH THE VOICE INSIDE OF THEM IS
TELLING THEM IS SAYING NO THEY
ARE A BAD
PERSON.
YOU HAVE A DEFINING ROLE WHERE
PEOPLE ALWAYS WANT TO BE
DIFFERENT AND WANT TO BE RIGHT.
THEY ARE THE REBELS OF THE
WORLD.
THEY WANT TO BE RIGHT EVEN IF IT
MEANS THEY PUSH OTHERS AWAY AND
IT'S THE INVISIBLE WORLD WHERE
PEOPLE LOSE THEMSELVES AND THEIR
RELATIONSHIP.
THEY LOSE THEIR VOICE
IN THEIR
IDENTITY AND THEY DISAPPEAR.
THESE ARE SOME OF THE ROLES THAT
ARE SET UP FROM SOME OF THE
MESSAGES WE GET.
>> WE WERE TALKING EARLIER AND
YOU SAID THAT YOUR WIFE LOVED
THE TITLE OF THE BOOK, "THE
PROBLEM WAS ME."
>> WELL IT
TOOK TIME TO COME UP
WITH A NAME FOR MY BOOK.
THERE IS A DOCTOR WHO IS ALSO
WITH ME ON THE BOOK AND I
COULDN'T COME UP WITH A NAME.
EVERY TIME I WOULD WALK IN AND
GIVE HER NAME, SHE WOULD
KIND OF
GIVE THIS POSTURE IF YOU WILL.
FINALLY ONE NIGHT I SAID I'VE
GOT IT, "THE PROBLEM WAS ME" AND
I WALKED IN THE BEDROOM AND I
SAID SUE, THE PROBLEM WAS ME.
SHE SAID YOU GOT THAT RIGHT AND
THAT IS HOW I NAMED THE BOOK,
"THE PROBLEM WAS ME."
>> WHAT WAS YOUR AH-HA MOMENT IN
LIFE?
OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE A TESTIMONY
THAT YOU CAN SHARE WITH THE
VIEWERS WATCHING TODAY.
WHAT WAS YOUR AH-HA MOMENT?
>> I BELIEVE IT HAPPENED WHEN MY
FATHER WAS IN THE HOSPITAL.
I DIDN'T HAVE A GREAT
RELATIONSHIP WITH MY FATHER BUT
HE BECAME
A DIFFERENT PERSON.
HE WENT INTO RECOVERY AND WENT
INTO RETREAT AND BECAME A GOOD
PERSON AND A GREAT-GRANDFATHER
TO MY CHILDREN, LOVING
GRANDFATHER BUT I HAD A LOT OF
PROBLEMS WITH THEM.
I WENT TO VISIT HIM ONE NIGHT IN
THE HOSPITAL AND HE HAD STOMACH
CANCER AND WAS VERY ILL.
THE
CANCER HAD SPREAD ALL OVER.
HE WAS ALL HOOKED UP AND I WENT
TO SEE HIM ONE NIGHT.
AS WE SPOKE I GOT UP TO LEAVE
AND HE SAID TOMMY SIT DOWN I
WANT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING.
MY FATHER WAS DYING OF LUNG
CANCER 20 YEARS AGO.
I NEVER TOLD
MY FATHER THAT I
LOVED HIM AND WAS NEVER ABLE TO
TELL MY FATHER THAT I CARED AND
I DON'T WANT YOU TO LIVE WITH
THAT PAIN.
MY FATHER WAS ABLE TO SEE MY
PAIN AND THE PAIN HE WAS GOING
THROUGH THE TIME.
WHEN I GOT UP TO THE HOSPITAL, I
WENT TO TOUCH HIS
HAND TO SAY
GOODBYE AND HE GRABBED ME AND
PULLED ME CLOSE AND HE STARTED
TO CRY.
I HAD NEVER SEEN MY FATHER CRY.
I SHOULDN'T SAY THAT, THE ONLY
TIME I SAW MY FATHER CRY WAS
WHEN HE WAS DRUNK AND HE WOULD
HURT US AND HE WOULD ASK FOR
FORGIVENESS.
THESE WERE
TEARS AND I REMEMBER
LEAVING THE HOSPITAL ROOM.
I STARTED TO COMMUNICATE WITH
HIM MORE.
HE DIED TWO WEEKS LATER AND MY
MOTHER HAD WRITTEN A BOOK WITH
THESE JOURNALS IN IT.
I WAS READING THE JOURNALS AFTER
HE PASSED AWAY AND I STARTED TO
SEE THAT MY FATHER WAS NOT A
10-FOOT MONSTER.
HE WAS A GUY LIKE ITSELF, FULL
OF FEARS, FULL OF DESTRUCTIVE
INNER MESSAGES FROM HIS
CHILDHOOD.
HE WAS ME AND I WAS HIM REALLY
AND I THINK THAT REALLY FREED ME
FROM SO MUCH OF THE SELF-HATE I
HA
D FOR MYSELF THAT I THREW ONTO
HIM.
WHEN IT FREED ME I WENT TO
HELPING OTHER PEOPLE.
FIRST I WORKED ON MY DAMAGE AND
I HAD TO FIND OUT WHAT WAS
BROKEN INSIDE OF ME TO KNOW WHAT
NEEDED TO BE FIXED AND THEN
I
STARTED TO WORK ON MY DAMAGE BUT
I THINK THAT MOMENT FREED ME
FROM A LOT OF SELF-HATE.
>> DID YOU HAVE A SUBSTANCE
ABUSE CHALLENGE YOURSELF?
>> I WAS A WOMANIZER, COMPULSIVE
GAMBLER AND COMPULSIVE WORKER.
MY FATHER AND MY BROTHERS HAVE
SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROBLEMS.
THE REASON WHY I BELIEVE I NEVER
DATED WAS BECAUSE I HATED
ALCOHOL SO MUCH.
I LOOKED ALCOHOL FOR SUCH HATRED
THAT I WOULD NEVER DRINK SO
UNFORTUNATELY I FOUND SOMETHING,
SOME OF THE WAY TO ACT OUT MY
FEELINGS.
>> WOULD YOU SAY THAT BASED ON
THE OTHER QUESTION I ASKED YOU
ABOUT ADDICTION, WOULD YOU SAY
THAT BECAUSE ADDICTION WAS
PREVALENT IN YOUR FAMILY
CONSTRUCT THAT YOU ARE TRENDING
TOWARDS SOME FORM OF ADDICTION
AND IS THAT COMMON?
>> IT'S VERY COMMON EXIT LEARNED
BEHAVIOR.
WHEN MOM AND DAD USE AND
ADDICTION AS A WAY TO COPE WITH
LIFE'S
PROBLEMS, THE CHILD IS
GOING TO LEARN THAT BEHAVIOR AND
GO IN THAT DIRECTION.
IT'S MUCH EASIER IF IT WASN'T
THERE.
>> SO HOW DO YOU HELP OTHERS?
>> WHEN I STARTED TO FIX THE
DAMAGE I STARTED TO RUN GROUPS
AND CHURCHES FREE OF CHARGE AND
WHEN
I DID IT I STARTED WITH
MESSAGES.
WHAT WERE THE MESSAGES IN YOUR
LIFE THAT LET YOU TO ACT OUT IN
DESTRUCTIVE WAYS?
LET'S GET RID OF THEM AND EXPOSE
THEM.
SO I DID THIS IN GROUPS AND I
CALLED THIS INNER CRITIC, THE
LITTLE V
OICE INSIDE OF US THAT
IS CONSTANTLY KNOCKING US DOWN
AND TELLING US THAT WE CAN'T
ALLOW PEOPLE CLOSE TO US TO
SABOTAGE OUR RELATIONSHIPS.
WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO STUMBLE IN
LIFE.
THIS NUANCE OF ADDICTION.
>> FIRST OF ALL BECOME AWARE OF
YOUR SHORTCOMINGS.
IS HARD TO HELP CHILDREN ARE
OTHERS OUT IF WE ARE NOT WORKING
ON OUR CHARACTER
DEFECTS AND
WHEN YOU GO TO CHAINS ACTIONS IN
YOUR LIFE, BECOMES A WEE PROCESS
NOT IN THE PROCESS TO ENLIST THE
HELP OF OTHERS, THOSE THAT ARE
LOVING PEOPLE.
DON'T SOLICIT THE HELP OF THOSE
WHO WILL MAKE YOU FEEL WORSE BUT
GO TO PEOPLE WHO YOU ARE SAFE
WITH AND THE LAST TIP IS,
MAINTAIN THOSE DIFFERENT
ACTIONS.
AS I SAY IN MY BOOK A FEW
DOUBTS, THEY WILL COME BACK
UNTIL YOU WHAT TO DO SO ALLOW
OTHERS TO HELP YOU.
THOSE LOVING AND TRUSTING PEOPLE
IN YOUR LIFE THAT YOU NO.
>> TOM THANK YOU SO MUCH.
MANY PEOPLE WILL BE HELPED BY
THIS INTERVIEW SO THANK YOU FOR
BEING A GREAT CONTRIBUTOR TO
"JOY IN OUR TOWN."
APPRECIATE IT.
>> WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT TIME ON
ON "JOY IN OUR TOWN."
>> OR TELETHO.
YOUR CONTINUAL SUPPORT CAN KEEP
EVERY.N OUR TOWN" COMING TO YO
WRITE TO "JOY IN OUR TOWN" P.O.
BOX A SANTA ANA CALIFORNIA
92711.