Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
>> Good morning, everybody.
Thanks very much.
Welcome to our first public policy forum for 2011.
My name is John Filimore, for those who don't know me.
I'm the executive director
of the John Curtin Institute of Public Policy.
Please turn off your mobile phones, I haven't got
that problem this morning, since it konked out,
so therefore I have no problem with it, but you people have
to turn yours off or put them on silent, thanks very much.
Of course I'd like to begin
by acknowledging the traditional owners
of the swan [Inaudible] people and pay respects
to their elders past and present.
The JCIPP is very pleased and proud
to bring you nationally renowned
and nationally influential public speakers addressing
public policy issues of national importance,
and of course today is no exception
with Senator Chris Evans as our first presenter
for the year at one of our forums.
We have an excellent lineup of speakers this year,
both for our city-based breakfast and lunches,
as well as our regular free seminars
at the [Inaudible] campus, so please keep a look out,
and I'll give you some more details about up coming events
at the conclusion of this morning's breakfast.
To my knowledge Senator Evans is our first repeat speaker,
certainly during my lifetime at the JCIPP.
He addressed one of our breakfasts back in mid 2008
when he was [Inaudible] immigration and citizenship.
So it's great to have repeat business from the minister.
Now interestingly, his topic
that day was sustaining the boom,
the role of skewed migration in the WA economy.
So clearly the demand for labor and skill were issues
that would not go away in western Australia anyway.
And of course that last presentation was given just a
few months before the GFC really hit.
Now three years on it will be very interesting for us
to hear how the commonwealth government and Senator Evans
in particular views these issues now
from a different related portfolio and with a benefit
of hind sight from the first resources boom.
So to formally introduce our speaker I'd
like to invite [Inaudible] Curtin university professor
Janet Haggart to the microphone.
Janet.
[Applause]
>> Well good morning, Ladies and Gentlemen,
and happy Saint Patrick's Day.
We are delighted to have our first forum to 2011
and it's great to have you here.
I'd first like to welcome three members of the state parliament,
we've got Jeanine Freeman member for Nollamara, Peter Tinly,
member for Willowy, and I think Margaret Quirk might have just
stepped in, member for Girrawheen.
We also welcome the managing directors
of the various training colleges who were here this morning,
and especially I welcome those that have come
from Western Australia, it's great to have you here.
And it's such a great relationship
that the universities want to build with those colleges,
so we look forward to even stronger relations.
Curtain's always understood the importance
of vocational training and we have a long history
of collaboration with those training colleges,
and of course we work particularly
on articulation pathways into our courses.
The topic that our speaker Senator Chris Evans has chosen
this morning is a very important one for Australia,
and for Western Australia in particular, and that is skills
for Australia, an industry and government partnership.
I'm aware that most of the discussion in the media
and in policy circles about schools normally relates
to what government is doing to meet the pressing needs
of industry, and that is reflected in the title
of the minister's speech this morning.
But I would suggest
that universities are also important partners
in providing skills for Australia's future.
As Western Australia's largest university,
Curtin has a major role
in developing the state's future work force.
We have now more than 10,000 graduates per year,
so we have graduate completion of more than 10,000 per year,
and this is a major contribution
to the skills base in the nation.
We are widely recognised for the practical and applied nature
of our courses which equip graduates with essential skills
through exposure to industry and business.
And this is also true of our research which focuses
on solving real-world problems for industry.
Employers world wide recognise that adaptability to change
and having a commitment
to life-long learning are key attributes
for a productive work force.
Curtin University recognises this in its graduate attributes.
Curtin empowers its graduates to connect with employers and also
to respond to community and government agendas.
Our commitment to developing career-ready students is not an
accident, it's part of our commitment to our students,
industry, government, and the broader community.
To help achieve these outcomes,
Curtin has established a nationally recognised career
centre which has been rated by the Australian association
of graduate employers as one
of the top five university career centres in Australia
for the delivery of career services to employers,
recruiters, and graduates.
The Curtin career centre works collaboratively with faculty
within the university to deliver employability skills
into all courses.
In particular ensuring work-integrated learning
opportunities are available
in all courses is an on-going priority.
We also provide extensive extra-curricular support
for students' career development, and I see love
to give you some of the examples.
We have an experience works program,
and it places 700 students in not
for credit work experience positions to assist them
to gain relevant industry experience.
We have the next -- next step mentoring program,
which provides over 400 final year students
with the opportunity to be mentored by a Curtin alumnus
which completed the same or similar degree
and assists the student into transition for employment.
We have an internship program for international students
which assists this group to be productive employees either
in Australia or the international work force.
And then of course there are the careers fairs,
Curtin careers fairs.
The Bentley career fair is the largest in Western Australia
with over 120 employer organisations attending.
Career fairs promote engagement with employers
and advertise graduate employment
and provide vocation program information
and part-time work for students.
The next one of these is at our Bentley campus on Wednesday,
so if anybody's available you should come
and have a look, it's a great event.
It's now my pleasure to introduce our speaker today.
Prior to entering federal parliament,
Chris Evans was the state secretary
of the labor party's W A branch, and before that was secretary
of the Fire Fighters Union in Western Australia.
He was elected to federal parliament in 1993
and has served in many parliamentary committees.
Before becoming a minister, he held several shadow ministries
which have given him a broad knowledge of public policy.
In October of 2004, Senator Evans was also elected
as the federal labor leader in the Senate, becoming the leader
of the government in the Senate in 2007 when labor was elected
to government, and at that time he also became minister
for immigration and citizenship.
In the Gillard government, she's the minister
for territory education, skills, jobs , and work place relations.
And so obviously as an incorporate amount
of contact the universities have with him in his portfolio.
I must say it's great to have such a knowledgeable
and approachable west Australian looking after these portfolios,
and it's such an area of crucial concern to the universities,
so we're delighted to have a west Australian minister.
Chris is a very keen rugby union supporter,
and he also says he's a stubbornly loyal Dockers
supporter, so good luck in 2011 to the Dockers, Senator.
Ladies and Gentlemen, please join me
in welcoming Senator Chris Evans.
[Applause]
>> Thanks very much, I've got to take
that dockers stuff off my web site.
I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners
on whose land we meet on and pay my respects to their elders past
and present, to special guests, Ladies and Gentlemen.
Thank you, Janet for the introduction,
and thanks for John Filimore's comments.
I might point out, though, he's wrong,
he might be a Rhodes Scholar
but this is my third time at this venue.
I must say, the first time was in opposition,
it was a great credit to John Curtin
that they actually allowed a forum
for opposition spokes people,
and even know I think that's a good policy to continue.
I gave a speech about indigenous policy
which I call the end of ideology.
Unfortunately, it was widely reported
and got favourable reviews in the Australian,
so about half my colleagues didn't speak
to me for about a year.
But -- but it is a great, great pleasure to be with you today.
I hope this speech is broadly consistent
with what I said last time.
Look, I think what I want to talk
about today is very much the challenge we face and how we
as a nation manage our future growth and economic success
so that all Australians benefit.
That's the sort of phrase
that runs off the tongue pretty easily,
but it isn't that simple.
It's not simply about the challenge and redistribution
of taxation revenue, although
that in itself can be controversial.
It's not also just about articulating, you know,
the benefits, the trickle down theory of economic growth.
It's about ensuring that all Australians get expanded
opportunities to maximise their potential.
They get to benefit directly from economic success
by being better able to participate in our society.
That sort of opportunity is at the core
of what is the Australian social contract.
So the challenge was obvious, I think in the weeks --
the events of this week in Perth, the statement estimate
for training was in the news campaign to have tens
of thousands more migrants in all occupations settled in WA.
Meanwhile on the streets
of Perth we saw 5,000 west Australians march
into Parliament House to deliver a clear message
to Premiere Barnett,
that message was we're missing out on the boom.
So that's the contrast, there's a debate on the one level
about the need for migration and bringing in more skills,
and there's people
in the community saying we are benefitting from this boom,
we're not getting business, we're not getting jobs,
and we've got to work -- work our way through --
through that challenge.
People are rightly concerned
when they're told the economy is booming, on the back record
of investments and resources and construction industries.
But I don't see that translated into opportunities for them.
Many western Australians will tell you that for those workers
who are not in jobs directing to mining
and construction the last boom just made higher rents
and increased cost of living, not new opportunities
to increase their skills and take higher paying jobs.
People in the public service, people looking
for private industry and not benefitting from the boom.
And many small and medium businesses will tell you
that they carry the investment of training skilled workers only
to have them stolen by big companies offering high salaries
which they simply could not match.
An examination of the training commitment of some
of those committees is not pretty.
So this is what -- what I think has led to frustration
and resentment in our community, and as I say it was represented
in what we saw this week.
I also think it was brought down the [Inaudible] government.
And I think it's the reason why the premier can't bring himself
to utter the word boom,
he understands the politics of that.
There's no denying that our economy is growing
and there's an increasing demand for school workers.
And this one will only get stronger.
The government is very much aware of that.
But on a daily basis I'm told that the only answer
to the skills crisis is to import more and more workers
from overseas to meet that demand.
Rarely does anyone can to me
and say can you help us train more Australian workers.
The focus is always on bringing in overseas workers.
I did a press conference earlier in the week about training
and education initiatives.
90% of the questions were about immigration.
So it's not limited to business,
it's part of the whole media debate as well.
Now as a former immigration minister, as I said,
I'm very aware -- aware
of the important role skill migration plays
in supplementing our local work force.
I'm a big defender of both permanent
and temporary skill migration.
Indeed, I introduced a series of measures
which fundamentally reshaped
and reformed the skill migration program
to ensure it's responsive to changing economic circumstances
and short term demands in our labor market.
And I think it's worth noting
that those changes see a much greater proportion
of skills migrants coming to this country, settling in WA,
coming in with skills that the expanding economy needs.
That skilled migration should only be a tool used
to meet demand for skills not available in the economy.
And the Australian community will only support those
migration programs if they think
that Australians are actually getting priority access
to the opportunities available in the economy.
They want to know
that Australians are getting the chance to benefit
and to get -- to get priority.
Now the -- one of the advantages of the breadth of my portfolio
of responsibility is I've got a pretty unique perspective
on the task we face in ensuring the benefits
of growth are genuinely spread across the community.
I'm sure that some of you might recall those little flurry
of commentary when my new portfolio was announced
and we left out territory education from the title.
We fixed that to recognise the importance of the sector,
but the prime minister and I were both adamant
that the portfolio areas of skills and jobs be retained.
This is because we shared a determination
to see labor's record investment in education
and training resulting in a more highly skilled work force able
to access the job opportunities arising
from this transient economy.
As Minister of the tertiary Education Skills, Jobs,
and Work Place Relations --
I write it down so I can remember it,
it's a bit of a mouth full --
I do get a clear view of the stressors
which are being current brought to bear on the industry
as the demand for skilled workers increases on the back
of the booming mining and oil and gas sectors.
I also get a very clear view, though,
of the persistent disadvantages in our community
which we must address.
Areas of high unemployment, very large youth unemployment
in many areas, groups of people who face social
and educational barriers
which stop them gaining the skills they need
to enter the work force and share in their success,
huge problems of literacy and [Inaudible] in the community
that are barriers to people's full participation,
workers' whose lack of formal qualifications prevent them
from taking higher skilled work, and people who struggle
to access universities and unlock their true potential.
Just like the manufacturing businesses in WA
who feel they have not benefitted from the boom,
those [Inaudible] how they all benefit from economic growth,
and ask whether they're getting a fair share
of the communities available.
Our nation's challenge is
to make sure our people get those opportunities.
And of course the best driver of opportunity
in our country is education and skills training.
But this won't be done
by governments alone, we've learned that.
They're challenges for the whole community, they're challenges
for our society, and they're challenges for industry,
for educators, for trade unions, for all of us.
We're going to need flexible and innovative partnerships
to overcome those barriers to full participation
and the tremendous opportunities available.
That is important for our economy, but it's also important
for our social inclusion.
Now while people -- I just want to make the point --
while people talk about the skills crisis we've got to talk
about things in terms of crisis, not challenges, but I just point
out what a great crisis to have.
My counter part in America is looking at 9% unemployment,
huge unemployment queues, social deprivation, poverty,
and social chaos caused by the collapse of their economy.
So when we talk about our crisis,
let's keep it in perspective.
It's a great problem to have.
It's a problem about managing growth, and we ought to,
I think, always remember that.
So I want to talk -- spend some time today talking
about the partners we're forging within industries and the way
in which these act as a model of what we can do better.
This week as I say, I released the government's response
to the national resources centre employment task force,
which was a very important bit of work done by Gary Gray,
my ministry colleague, about how to meet the skills needs of more
than 75 major resource projects scheduled to commence
in Australia within the next five years.
As I said, the reporting focused on immigration.
But we announced that the government accepted all 31
recommendations of the report,
and that that would form the foundation for the first stage
of a national resources sector work force strategy.
We've got a good response from industry and trade unions
about that report, but also the two initiatives we announced
on that day.
The first of these is a ground-breaking adult
apprenticeship project.
For the first time it's targeted
at recruiting experienced workers,
recognising the existing skills they have, and training them
to complete all the competencies required
to obtain a full trade qualification within 18 months.
It's about saying to existing workers you've got skills,
you've got experiences that should allow you to progress
to tradesman level and take those opportunities [Inaudible]
in the economy in a much quicker time,
provided you've got the key competencies.
It's not about lowering standards,
it's about giving people in the work force opportunities.
Many of those people might have missed out the first time,
some of them would have failed to complete apprentices,
others have been working as trades assistants or other jobs
in the industry, they've got skills, and this project is
about making sure that those employees and works
across Australia are recruited into the resources sector
and construction sector jobs.
It's a $4 million project.
The reason I signed up, putting $2 million of department money
into it is because the industry were putting $2 million of money
into it, and they were guaranteeing jobs
for those who came out program.
So a real commitment from industry,
partnering to address some of their real --
their real challenges, and I think --
I'm hopeful it will be successful.
Part of the partnership is polytechnic west here,
I'm just not mentioning it because we're
in [Inaudible] sitting on the table,
but part of their role will be to provide the training support
to make sure that these people get that opportunity
and we get the -- we get the tradespeople we need.
As I say, it's a
ground-breaking initiative, and I think it offers a great deal
of hope for the future.
I think I just make the note, of course,
that it's not replacing any other training we're doing,
the current systems are not impacted by this,
this is [Inaudible] over the top, and it builds
on what is a record number of Australian people
in apprenticeship and training ships, we actually came out of
that last boom in pretty good condition.
Normally, there's a huge drop off in apprenticeships
and training, but because of programs like kickstart
which we ran, and I think a more mature attitude from employers
about holding on to people during the downturn,
and I think -- I congratulate employers for that,
we actually now in a position where we got record numbers
of people in apprenticeships and training within a year or two
of the global financial crisis.
That's not true of other countries,
and I think we did a good job in government,
of supporting programs that assisted that,
and I think we're now very well placed.
But nevertheless, there are I think still going
to be skills shortages, obviously,
and we're going to have to do more.
And part of what we announced the other day is
to make sure we're continually looking for ways of adding
to the skills in our -- in our economy.
There's also recently been a --
a report on the apprenticeship system,
we've got a very strong apprenticeship system,
it is well-regarded internationally, and I get a lot
of approaches from other countries
about how they might access our apprenticeship and vet systems.
But it's also the case that I think can be inflexible,
it can be slow in responding to industry needs,
and some of the concepts are a bit old-fashioned.
Some of them are designed on a model
that suited an earlier age.
So we've got to, in my view, keep the best aspects
and continue to reform the system.
We're going to consider a range of options
to reform the system including targeted incentive payments,
work-based training initiatives,
and competency-based progressions in a bid
to improve completion rates.
Our completion rates for apprenticeships are appalling,
apprenticeships and training ships,
and we need to address the causes of that, and do better.
Otherwise, we're waisting the invest
but we're also wasting the potential of those people
who should have been completing --
completing their apprenticeship or training ship.
The other key initiative we announced the other day was the
national resource sector -- sorry --
the critical skills investment fund which is a key part
of the government's productivity and participation agendas,
and under the scheme the Australian government is
providing competitive grant funding
of $200 million over four years.
I made sure a piece is spent, a good west Australia
with a background in resources is chairing that,
he's also the chair of the [Inaudible] training board
so we've got someone heading it who's I do not tell a real
understanding of the needs of industry
and a real understanding of the needs of Western Australia.
Now it targets resources, construction, infrastructure,
and renewable energy sectors,
and the fund will encourage small, medium,
and large enterprises to work in partnership
with training organisations, recruitment services,
and local business organisations to meet local work force needs.
It's a new approach which seeks to train Australians
to meet the increasing demands for skilled labor.
The fund will up skill existing workers as well as new workers
to try and make sure those opportunities exist
in the economy can be taken advantage of.
And Keith already tells me he's had very serious engagement
from industry, very serious engagement
from regional industry, and enthusiasm
about how they will be able to partner
with the government funding on these projects to put people
into real skilled jobs where we need them.
And I think it's quite exciting, and should have been hopeful
that it will deliver strong results forward.
One of the points Keith made at the presentation
which I think is a really strong one is
that training can provide short term solutions
to our skills needs.
There's a bit of a sense
that immigration is a short-term solution and education
and skills training is a long-term solution,
and that's not right, we can do more and much better
on short-term skills training responses
to meet the emerging needs.
And I think it's a bit of a cop -out by many to go
for the easy option rather than focusing on those initiatives.
One of the other things that I wanted to mention is --
maybe many of you around here know this,
but there's a great misconception
in the Australian community that the growth
in mining is somehow driven by an increase in low skill jobs.
But the reality is both the mining industry
and its support industries are skilled and highly specialised
with lots of workers like engineers, geologists,
human resource managers, IT specialists, finance officers,
it's a highly skilled industry.
It's not -- it's not about blokes on shovels.
In fact, if you go to a mining operation now it's pretty hard
to fine someone willing to drive all these trains, which I'm not
so sure -- I kind like the security
of having someone at the wheel.
But it's a high-tech, high-skilled business,
and the service industries that support it are high skilled
and high-tech, and it means a lot of the jobs of the future,
they are in -- jobs which will require university graduates.
If you look at the projections from skills Australia and others
about the sort of work that will be emerging
in the next twenty -- well, next five to thirty years,
they're high skilled, they're requiring high levels
of training and education.
I think we've got to keep reenforcing that message,
there's a short-term focus on trade skills which is important,
but long-term and short-term, it's a high-skills job market
that we're going to have to meet,
and that's why Janet was very correct in talking
about the role the university sector is going to play.
One of the reforms this government made
which is not broadly understood, and when I read editorials
that we've done nothing about structural economic reform,
gets my blood boiling.
But we've actually uncapped university
in places from each year.
It's a huge reform, universities will be able
to enrol any student who meets their criteria
to study at their university.
We traditional had this command economy still
where the university is told how many places they're allowed
to have each year as a result of government decisions.
We're freeing up that market which will allow broader access
to university to meet the needs of students,
which in turn will meet the needs of industry.
Because students will pursue course that's lead them to jobs.
So it does mean that I think that our universities can grow
with confidence and the next generation of students,
there will be many people who will be the first
in their family to embrace the life-changing opportunities
that a university education can offer.
Unis are experiencing record growth
of funding despite what the vice chancellors say ,
and between 2008 and '09
and 2011-12 we will be investing a staggering $37 billion
to increase the number of Australians
who hold bachelor degrees of the we committed 4.15 billion
to major infrastructure projects
in higher education including the new engineering pavilion
at Curtin university.
But also into research and into vet, to make sure
that we're transforming the learning environment.
Now I think these opportunities have been embraced
by the sectors, and it's very pleasing to see that.
But they're also taking up the challenges more broadly
of the needs of industry.
And the mining education Australia joint venture
which is responsible for producing 85%
of the nation's mining engineers as a result of a collaboration
of a number of universities has seen the number
of graduates almost doubled in three years.
We basically up until now have been importing all
of our mining engineers.
But in 2007, there were just 113 mining engineers graduating,
last year 192 were graduated as a result of this initiative.
So we're starting to lift our game in terms
of training our own mining engineers, and we're going
to get a lot more of them
because it's very much an ageing work force.
Another innovative partnership between the Australian Chamber
of Commerce and industry and the innovative research industries
will enable university students
to have real-world job placements as part
of their studies, linking them directly in with work experience
and the needs of employers.
And last week
I announced the first inaugural ground
on the government's $400 million structural adjustment fund ,
and went out to the [Inaudible] campus with Edith Karin,
Edith Karin was the first successful applicant
under that fund, and they've been awarded $6.9 million
to re-shape its curriculum
to support a more innovative student learning experience
which will focus on delivering job-ready graduates.
So there's a lot of initiative starting
to happen, which is great.
A lot of partnerships with industry.
I'm pleased to say many of the west Australian institutions are
at the forefront of that, better linking
with the needs of industry.
So look, I just want to say
that I think there is great opportunities for us,
but we've I do not tell to make sure that we spread the benefits
of the growth, that we understand the social tensions
that underpin some of the stressors of growth,
and that we build partnerships across the education sector
and industry to provide strong opportunities
for all Australians.
We are on the cusp of a period of enormous economic growth,
the patch work nature
of our economy will not see the benefits
of that growth automatically fairly distributed
across community sectors or regions.
The challenge for us is to provide opportunity
for all Australians to benefit from that growth.
And the great driver of opportunity in this country
and the chance to participate in that growth will be driven
by education and skills training.
And only by partnering that training
with industry will we be able to make sure that we take advantage
of those opportunities.
Really once in a lifetime opportunity
to give many Australians the chance to participate
that otherwise might not happen.
If you can't take along some of the disadvantage
in our community at the time of the boom, when can you?
And I remind people that opportunities for young people
in communities like Kwinana, you know,
very close to where we are now, are not great.
Unemployment is at 10.6%, youth unemployment is much higher,
and those rates are double the national unemployment rates.
I know many of the young unemployed people
in Kwinana are not current equipped
to fill highly specialised, highly skilled jobs
in the resource and construction industry,
but they deserve the opportunity to access entry level jobs
and build a skill set which will allow them to share
in our economic success.
If we are serious about sharing the benefits
of the next boom we must be serious
about removing the barriers which stopped those young people
in Kwinana getting a start.
And industry has to understand their social obligation
to make sure that happens.
Industry has to make its contribution to ensure
that we take everyone along and that everyone gets opportunities
from -- from the growth that's occurring.
It's not good enough to say I need a specialised oil rig
worker, and that's the end of my social obligation.
If the only ones to benefit
from that are the specialist oil rig worker.
So we've I do not tell to make sure
that the Australian compact is honoured
in the way we manage the boom and the --
and that means a huge contribution
from the development of education and skills training,
and it means an absolute necessity for stronger links
between industry and that education and training sector.
Because industry rightly demand people
with the skills they need.
So we've got to make sure the education sector is turning
those people out.
But we've also got to make sure
that Australians get the opportunity
to develop those skills, get access to the training,
and get those opportunities to participate in the boom.
That's absolutely central to Australia's economic success,
but also to our social -- social cohesion, and I think those
of us who saw some of the debates of the last election,
about population and migration, would understand
that if we don't do that the debate and the attitudes
in Australia can be quite negative.
So we've got to really work at this.
And as I say, the education
and training sector I think is the key in partnering
with industry to make sure we're giving everyone an opportunity
to take advantage of the economic growth
and take advantage of the opportunity
to develop their skills
and access the opportunities that come with it.
So thank you very much for the opportunity, and I'm happy
to take some questions.
Thank you very much.
[ Applause ]
>> Thanks, Minister.
I know we've got people here from industry
and from industry associations and from [Inaudible]
and from university, so there should be a wide range
of questions coming at you with a bit of luck and --
>> As long as the first one is not about migration.
>> Okay. [Laughter] so we've got any questions?
Got one down here and then one up there.
>> We also have microphones.
So just --
>> Good morning, Senator Evans, I'm [Inaudible] I'm head
of the Curtin career centre.
With the amendments to the fair work place act there were
implications for students participating in work experience
or work experience programs when seeker,
the Career Industry Council
of Australia contacted the department
and your office we were told there would be some guidelines,
and these are the students who need to gain the skills
and the opportunities you've just been talking about,
so I suppose I'm being a bit sneaky in taking the opportunity
to ask when those guidelines and clarification will be available?
>> Thank you for the question.
I'll be Frank, the answer to that is no,
but I'll be happy to find out for you.
I've heard all sorts of claims made
about the fair work act restrictions, I don't know
that some of those claims are right,
but certainly we're very committed
to providing more work opportunities and experiences
for people as they go through their courses.
But I'm happy to -- we'll get you details on how to get back
to your -- I don't know the answer
but I'll be happy to get it for you.
>> Good morning, minister.
My name is Ian Feeney, and the badge I'm wearing says
[Inaudible] association, you'll be aware
that you'd know the name.
Your Senate colleague Chris [Inaudible] has been engaging
you in some conversations and I know
from reading the [Inaudible] that you are aware,
as people in your department are, that there's a shortfall
of about 60,000 university graduates
in agro business in Australia.
It's an area that if it was
in the mining industry we'd be having headlines
and marches and so on.
But there's something about agriculture that people seem
to think if you ignore it, it will go away.
But we've got an issue, of course, food security
and all sorts of other things coming
up that make this sufficiently important that in Cambria,
on the 11th of May, it's the agro business's latest
convocation which you will be invited to.
It's budget week, but it will be on Thursday afternoon,
and we hope you'll be able to be there.
My particular issue that I think you're aware of is
that in Western Australia, Curtin has decided
to move its interest
in agriculture [Inaudible] into the city.
The campus it's leaving behind is now going
to be teaching courses,
the [Inaudible] the managing director sitting next to me.
I know he's particularly anxious to get those going,
but of course his institute doesn't qualify for the funding
for teaching tertiary level courses,
[Inaudible] that's available to universities.
I guess we would be interested to know in the initiatives
that you're rolling out whether there will be an opportunity
for institutes such as [Inaudible] around the country
to start providing university-level associate
degrees in the first place
that can access the commonwealth funding that would happen
if it went to universities.
My point I'd make to my colleagues
in the room is most people would have been left with a view
from the media that there just aren't kids interested
in Ag education any more.
Fortunately in this state we've got five agricultural high
school campuses, and one Catholic campus.
They are full up with waiting lists at the year 11 and 12.
So -- they're all in the rural areas, so there is demand
at that level that's not translating
to the tertiary level.
If we can get funding and support to other institutes
that would be a big step forward.
Thank you.
>> Look, thanks Ian, you sound almost as passionate
as Chris Beck the Senator is, and yes, he has bent my ear
at length about this, and we have --
we have had a bit of a discussion at [Inaudible]
about it, and I understand the concerns.
It is -- I think you're right to point out issues
of food security, going to be enormous
in the next -- next little while.
I don't think there's a broad understanding
of how important those issues are, and these issues relating
to water and the future of our agricultural industries is going
to be vital, as always.
I am pleased to see there's that strong interest
in agro business , and we do need
to try and meet that demand.
In terms of your specific request about funding I'm happy
to look at the detail of the [Inaudible] and its plans,
but I say a couple of things about that.
First of all, we're in the process
of taking the cap off university places,
which is actually seeing many universities be more aggressive
in recruiting students from rural and regional areas
in order to meet, one, they're lower [Inaudible] targets
and two, to access students they haven't traditionally accessed.
So there is a lot of activity going on in looking more broadly
at -- at students from rural or regional backgrounds.
I might also say at a time
when we've taken the cap off universities I do want
to be very careful to monitor that growth and to maintain --
ensure it's sustainable.
And I'm a bit risk-averse to taking the cap off
for [Inaudible] and other providers at the same time.
I think we've got to manage this growth
and make sure it's sustainable.
And we learned from what happened
in international education in this country
that not necessarily that people adopt sustainable
business models.
So I'm not jumping at the opportunity
to provide more places for --
for other providers to move into the university
or the tertiary sector because we're in this position
where there's an enormous amount of change occurring and a lot
of growth about to occur.
But I have spoken to Janet about their regional campuses
and their commitment to that, and one of the things she
and other bystanders put to me, of course, is you've got
to follow student choice.
And a lot of people argue with me about let's have more courses
in rural and regional areas,
find that they then don't have the students there
because they'd rather go to another university
or to the city to study.
So we've also got to be mindful of what the student choices are.
But in terms of your point about demand for agro business,
I know that's right and we do need to try to meet
that demand better, and we do need
to make sure we're providing the courses an the locations
that work for people, and it's not just
about saying let's build a campus here
because it suits the local region.
I know the huge economic benefits, and I'm not saying,
you know, I'm not certainly not opposed to rural
and regional campuses, they're very important to us.
But we've also got to realise that students are consumers
who look to consume services and make individual decisions,
we've got to be responsive to that.
But I'm happy to talk to you at some stage about the --
about the particular [Inaudible] Connor propositions
and I already had a conversation with the state minister,
the constable about those issues an the future of the School
of Mines, and I've also made it very clear
to the vice chancellor that I have a keen interest
in the success of the [Inaudible] School of Mines,
and that's a bi-partisan position,
and she's very familiar to it as well.
>> Thank you.
James Travellion, University of Western Australia.
Minister, I'd like to start by drawing your attention
to an appallingly high failure rate
in major Australian engineering projects.
According to recent reports,
10 to 20 % of major capital plant expansion projects are
complete write-offs, and you only have to look
at the [Inaudible] raven sort nickel to see to large examples
which just represent the tip of the iceberg.
About 50% of our major engineering projects require
major modifications in order to work at all.
70% fail to meet their design requirements.
Now we have a record in Australia for having high costs,
higher costs than all of our competitors, even compared
to Norway, the cost of operations in the oil
and gas sector are 15 to 20% higher.
We have a worse record for safety
and we have the worst record in the industrialised world
for completing projects on time.
At the same time, we've seasonal student-staff ratios
in engineering schools almost double
over the last twenty years,
even over the last few years they've gone from somewhere
around 17 staff members per student
to around about thirty today.
What we're seeing is not only an engineering skill shortage
in terms of numbers of graduates or numbers of engineers,
I should say, but also a severe problem with quality.
Now the work that we've done at UWA has clearly shown
that even during the last so-called skills shortage,
there wasn't a shortage of engineering graduates
in Australia, there were plenty
of graduates available to meet the demand.
The problem is in the industrial training of those graduates
which requires three to four years.
And because of this long training period it's have I,
very difficult tomorrow companies to take on graduates
which represent a substantial investment at a time
when the Mick conditions are obviously heading south.
So I just want to draw this problem to your attention
and ask whether you're aware of it and what plans you have
to do something about it.
>> Well, look, it's a series of issues, you realise.
I'm not sure I want to test a couple of the propositions
that you put, I'm not sure that we were over training
in engineers and having excessive graduates in many
of the fields that -- that they're required in,
certainly not the evidence given to me and it's not reflected
in terms of migration applications, et cetera.
But it is the case that I think there's been a tendency for --
for vacancies in some of these areas
as companies let people go during down turns.
I think there has to be a much more mature attitude among our
employers to try and hold on to their skills.
I had a brother-in-law who is a geo physicist,
and the moment the economies turn down a bit the last time,
you know, he got laid off and got running a very small --
small business, wasting those skills.
And of course within a year
or so industries are screaming they're short of labor.
I think we do have to take a longer term view,
I think major companies need to take a longer term view of the
but some of the things you raise I wasn't aware of.
But certainly we do need to make sure we've got quality graduates
and I share your concern about teaching ratios.
I think we have seen a major problem emerge
across disciplines about teaching ratios,
and I share your concerns about that, it's something
that I'm looking to talk to universities about.
We are keen to support universities expanding,
we're keen to give more people access,
I'm not at all interested in lowering quality, and we've got
to make sure we don't lower quality while we do it,
and we have to make sure that the graduates we're turning
out have the skills that industry needs.
>> Thank you.
[Inaudible] Rob Slater, I'm the chair
of the Australian Trades College.
And I'm warned by what I hear from you today
about the importance of focusing on skills training rather
than importing more and more migrants.
I'm have a migrant family myself,
and I'm very pleased my parents brought me here as a school boy,
but I do recognise the importance that we train
from within as our first choice.
And I note that you commented on the attrition rate for people
that go into skills training.
And I think it's around about 48%,
unless I'm miss taken, in the first year.
And I think the reason for that, or one of the reasons
for that is they go from a 100% educational-based environment
to 100% work-based environment, and they're not well equipped
for that transition and they find it too hard,
and it's easier to give up than continue.
With respect to what we do in the Australian Trades College is
that we take students in year 11 and 12 high school,
and we take them for work hours, not school hours,
and we expose them to the final two years of high school
at the same time during the first year
of their trade apprenticeship,
in a school -based apprenticeship.
A seamless transition of the work place,
and we [Inaudible] say that 98% of our student
that complete year 12 go into full time employment
in their chosen trade with success.
The problem is we are just a dot in the ocean, a very big ocean.
We'd like to be a bigger dot in that ocean and we'd
like to work collaboratively with your department
to enable us to roll out the model that we have,
that we can prove the success to you --
to a wider section of the community and to look forward
to the opportunity to work with you
and your department in that direction.
Thank you, sir.
>> Thanks.
[Inaudible] we had a brief chat at the launch
of the Polytechnic West Auto Apprenticeship Centre a couple
of weeks ago.
Look, you make an important point about the transitions
which I think we've got to get right,
and as you know we're investing an awful lot in trade centres
at schools, training centres and into training cadetships
to equip students better for that transition.
But as the apprenticeship report that Adele brought down a couple
of weeks ago showed there's a complex range
of reasons why we have high attrition rates.
The confusion between apprenticeships
and training ships that occurred
over the last ten years has clouded that picture
when you get figures
that include short-term retail training ships
with four-year trade apprenticeships,
and it all gets rolled into one.
I think disaggregating some of that is important.
But the issues that they've identified about --
about drop out rates go to things like wages,
the incentives from employers,
whether or not there's enough mentoring
in the work place, et cetera.
So it's a really good report that tries to unpack some
of the complexities of those things and has a bit
of an evidence base, and I was much more interested
in evidence-based commentary
than people just asserting things.
I think this report will be really helpful.
But we do need to drive reform,
we do need to increase retention, and you know,
one of the things that --
that shows up is that of the total number of people
in apprenticeships and training ships now.
40% are over 25.
Now that's not how we think of that training, generally.
Now that's more represented in the training ship
than the apprenticeship vain, but still the age
of people doing the courses are different, their needs,
their circumstances are different and I think we've got
to address all those issues.
But when you've got -- when you've got a completion rate
of 50%, clearly it's not working.
Clearly, we've got to do it better than we're doing it.
And we're wasting that potential, we're wasting
that investment, and we wouldn't accept that sort of success rate
in any other business, but we've been accepting it
in the apprenticeship and training ship business.
And we've just got to fix that.
>> Yeah. Good morning, Minister.
My name is Steve Hall.
I'm the director of the Western Australian School of Mines
within Curtin University and also the chairman of the Board
of Mining and Education al Australia.
>> I didn't know you were here
when I made that earlier comment.
>> So I thought I should
at least acknowledge the comments you made
in regards to both of those.
My sort of request or question is really
around international student visas and the turn-around times
and the flexibility within them,
because we are seeing increased demands
for what I call smaller bites of the skills
and miner expertise here in WA, and again, if we can get,
as I say, flexibility and fast turn-around we can really build
on what is the centre of excellence here in WA
and really compete internationally
with other jurisdictions, of course, that are trying
to get those students in their mining schools,
or those mining schools that remain.
Thank you.
>> Look, thanks for that, and as you know there's a --
there's a review of the student visa system being conducted
by Michael Knight at the request of myself
and the immigration minister Chris Bowen,
and that should help in clarifying some of those issues.
I must say, though, that I don't automatically accept the
complaints about visa processing times,
and I don't necessarily accept that they ought
to be absolutely fast.
We have security issues, we have integrity issues,
and we should not compromise on those.
And yes, immigration has to deliver visas as quickly
as possible, but not at the expense of integrity.
And if you saw the fraud rates out of India
in the student populations
when you had fraud rates in one area of 99%.
If you had fraud rates in the poll of something over 80%,
I'm not going to support giving you faster visas
if we're just increasing the speed of fraud.
So yes, we have to deliver a good product
and quick turn around.
Yes, we have to be internationally competitive,
but we also have to maintain integrity, and the moment
after we cleaned up our visa system of processing
in India Britain got a flood of applications.
People went to their door.
Two months later Britain closed off taking student visas.
We have to maintain a high quality education sector,
we have to maintain a system with visa integrity,
and we've got to get the balances right
but we can't compromise on integrity in terms
of the standard of student or the visa processing.
And so yes, the [Inaudible] inquiry should help address some
of those issues, but I just warn people that there are costs
if one doesn't make sure the integrity measures are there,
including institutions who get students who are not capable
of delivering because they don't have the standards claimed
or the qualifications claims.
So just make a note that many of --
many of the complaints would be louder if --
if integrity concerns weren't addressed.
>> One of the issues we've been doing some work
on is the interstate migration.
Basically, no one seems to come to Western Australia.
Most of Western Australia's growth in population
in the work force is through immigration
or through natural increase in the population.
Very few come across the [Inaudible]
so [Inaudible] west Australian, there's a migration internal --
assistance trying to get workers to move where the jobs are,
and that's only had a slow up take.
Is there anything intrinsic in why people aren't coming here
or anything the government can do?
>> Well, we're obviously a well kept secret,
except the [Inaudible] and south Africans.
And as a Welsh migrant myself,
the second most important Welsh person in the government,
and I've got a Welsh staffer who describes himself
as the third most important Welsh person in the government.
But look, it's been a problem
for many years, and I don't know why.
And to be fair, successive governments
of both persuasions have run campaigns and programs,
and they've largely been pretty unsuccessful.
You know, I wouldn't choose to live anywhere else,
but I think certainly we just filed [Inaudible] while I do the
-- I think I'm doing the trip twice this week,
back and forth five hours, there's some --
I do have some sympathy for people complaining
about us being a long way away.
But it is the reality.
It's a good question, but we haven't found the answer,
obviously part of that is changing with fly in and fly
out of places like Melbourne, et cetera.
But that's only part of the solution,
not necessarily the best solution.
But as I say, the way the migration program has been
changed to put higher emphasis on high skills
and employer sponsorship, we are seeing a greater intake
of overseas migration of the [Inaudible] coming
to Western Australia and unlike South Australia we don't lose
them, South Australia gets them and then they move,
we actually hold on to them.
But it's been a problem for years,
and I don't know what the answer is, and [Inaudible].
>> Good morning Senator.
I am the managing director of Great Southern Institute
in the Great Southern, which is near the new and emerging minds
in brains and quantum.
And with our discussions with them what we found is
that the Critical Skills Investment Fund, which is great
for Western Australia,
is not actually meeting the needs of emerging minds.
So the skill sets that are required
and the training package requirements don't quite come
into the emerging minds.
So I was wondering if the scope to have discussions on that
and perhaps give you some information
that will allow a broader skill base
to be developed in your minds?
>> Well, that surprises me,
because we certainly made the guidelines for the fund
which we released publicly now very broad, and it is designed
to meet those emerging skills needs.
So I'd be disappointed if they don't meet the needs
of new minds.
But I think the best thing I'll organise for you to have a chat
to Keith Spence about that, because that's his job,
to make sure we get the projects that meets those needs.
So if there's a problem we'll be happy to address it, but I --
I'll dob Keith in, because he's chairing the board
and they're approving the applications
and they're open now and they're open for the next three
or four weeks, and we'll be looking to get projects staffed.
We wouldn't want to have you excluded,
so I think if you have a conversation
with him we might be able
to address the problem if there is one.
>> Senator, I want to raise another issue of concern
with engineering education.
One of the results from our research is
that foreign students in engineering
from many regions including south Asia, China,
north east Asia, are relatively unsuccessful
in the engineering job market,
although we've only gotten a very limited amount
of evidence it seems that people
from these regions very often get their first jobs
through family connection and introductions,
and very often don't have
that family support system in place here.
And they're certainly not receiving any training
in job-seeking techniques.
I think Bob [Inaudible] has also drawn attention
to this general issue, that training in engineering --
Australian qualifications very often don't equip people
with the same level of skills
as for example foreign qualifications,
whereby people -- people come in with foreign qualifications
from overseas of course do have job experience.
They have to have that to get skilled migration.
But in general, our own graduates are not as successful
as people with foreign qualifications
in the job market.
I wonder if you can comment on these issues?
>> I think it's fair to say I have some fundamental
disagreements with Bob [Inaudible] on occasions,
so I don't necessarily start from the same point he starts
from because I think, you know, some of the sentiments seem
to support anti immigration views.
And so -- sometimes -- careful how I say this,
sometimes the evidence used is perhaps not as false-some
as it might be in my view.
But
what I would say is that all the feedback we've had
from employers on these issues has largely focused
on English skills and socialisation issues.
And I think one of the great failings during the growth
in international education, and I apologise to those in the room
that I'm going to give a whack to now, has been the lack
of attention to the standard
of English training given to those people.
And that has one, hindered their emersion in Australian society
and taking advantage of the opportunities of living here;
two, I think it's impacted on their education; and three,
has impacted on their employability.
And for instance, we have more accounting graduates
than any other discipline in this country
from overseas students, and very few of them get jobs
with the major account firms.
But when you talk to the managers
of account firms they generally say they're good accountants,
but they can't do the client interaction,
the level of English skills is wanting,
and it just doesn't work for us.
And they'd like to employ them,
but they find the English skills --
which is why the accounting associations have recently
lifted their requirements on the English language testing.
But I think we fundamentally have to make sure --
one of the key reasons students buy an education in Australia is
for the quality of the education, but also the capacity
to improve their English
and make themselves marketable internationally.
And we fail them if we don't give them good English language
skills as part of that.
I don't think our record on that has been
as good as it should be.
I'm not sure about engineering, but certainly now accounts,
and a range of other areas, we haven't done well enough
at equipping them with good enough English.
And I think we have an obligation to do that,
because that's part of what they're buying,
and I think it's the feedback loop is starting
to hurt international education in Australia as people,
you know, get that message.
So it's important we lift the game.
>> Good morning, Minister.
My name is John Scott, I'm the managing director
of [Inaudible] CY Connor Institute,
and I guess I should declare the interest of our institute
in developing as a jewel sector institution.
There are a growing number of type of institutes
around Australia who are offering higher education
programs and to my research I understand that two
of them are already in receipt of commonwealth supported places
where they have been able to demonstrate
that their programs are addressing critical skill
shortage areas.
Not with standing your caution about managing the access
to commonwealth supported places for non-university providers
of higher education would you consider
that a reasonable proposition where a type
of institute can demonstrate a program is addressing a national
skill shortage, that they may be considered, Albeit perhaps
as a special case basis in the example that Ian cited,
we're clearly focusing on an area such as agro business.
Would you not consider it a reasonable proposition
that institutes in that circumstances be considered
for [Inaudible] --
>> I think I sort of made it fairly clear
that you've got a bit of a hurdle to get over on me,
I've been brutally frank with you, I do want to make sure
that growth is sustainable, that standards are maintained,
and that we don't get undesirable developments
like we got in international education, and we've got
to maintain the integrity of our systems.
Having said that, I'm a big supporter of jewel provision,
I'm a big supporter of trying to articulate people
with [Inaudible] and higher education,
and I'm very interested in partnerships
that directly lead people to meeting skills needs.
And you know, I think one of the --
one of my concerns I suppose is when people come to me
from [Inaudible] saying are we running a diploma course,
because industry is telling us that the graduates are no good
to business and they want us to give them some real training
so that they're employable.
Now some innovative [Inaudible] people are into that market,
and good luck to them.
But raises the question with me, well, hang on,
why aren't the university graduates employable
and work ready, which is the sort
of program we're talking about,
making sure the partnerships are there,
that remember delivering graduates for business.
So I probably upset everyone in the room by that remark,
the [Inaudible] directors who want to train them
and the universities are criticised by those --
that critique from business.
But -- but it is -- it is the feedback you get,
as I say I'm very supportive of any, you know,
collaborative arrangements, but I will be very conservative
about extending -- extending those arrangements in terms
of [Inaudible] and higher degrees
to [Inaudible] I know we've done it on a couple of occasions,
and want to make sure we have a proper assessment
of how that's going.
It's fine for people to be entrepreneurial,
but it's also got to be on sustainable business models,
you know, we've led a lot of levers go
in the last little while, and we're letting them go next year,
it will keep the tertiary education minister awake
at nights worrying to make sure that it is sustainable.
So the free market is opened, hopefully, you know,
people take advantage of the opportunities.
But we've also got to remember that most
of the institutions are operating with public money
and they have an obligation to make sure
that public money is utilised appropriately
with appropriate risk management.
So bottom line is you've got work to do on me, but I'm happy
to talk about how we meet those needs of industry.
>> Well, I'm happy to have everybody here,
I think we've given the minister a pretty good grilling,
he's a -- don't make too many enemies anyway,
I think people here are both appreciative and also very --
admire the candour with which you answered the questions.
So on behalf of everybody here can we please thank Senator
Chris Evans.
[Applause]