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>> Keith is here as a co-chair of the committee.
I am here as co-chair of the committee.
Austin is with the Associate Students
and there's one vacant position...
>> Yes.
>> ...right now.
[Inaudible] Association is John and David --
David LeClaire [phonetic] is not here today I guess.
>> He's taking over for Kent.
>> Yes. So he's taking over for Kent.
>> And he knew as much as I did so I --
I haven't seen him for a while.
>> Dan is here for Danny Hammond [phonetic] representing
him today.
Julie is here -- don't know about Panela [phonetic].
Eduardo's here as a guest or are you representing somebody?
>> I was told to show up but I don't know if I'm here
for Dustin or as [inaudible] Academic Center.
>> Okay.
>> I do not know.
>> The Academic Center has 3 appointments.
And according to our list right now, it's Danny,
it's Panela and it's Julie.
>> Okay.
>> But that's fine.
Okay. And then Classified is Denise: Classified Senate.
Rudy representing CTA -- no, CSEA.
It should be CSEA.
And then Melva [phonetic] is representing issue CFT.
>> Correct.
>> And then Joe is here as a Resource Associate.
Marie is not going to be with us today.
She's busy in training.
I think Anthony is in the same thing and Dr. Bell is
in a meeting, I believe.
Okay, so that's kind of who we are.
So we've got an agenda for today's meeting.
Let's just go around the table real quick
and do some introductions.
Again Bob Miller, Dan?
>> Dan Haley [phonetic] from the library.
>> Denise Albright [phonetic], [inaudible] secretary.
>> Austin Cane [phonetic], Vice President
of Business [inaudible].
>> Hello.
>> Julie [inaudible], faculty.
>> Joe Simonesky [phonetic], Business Services.
>> Keith Eberlander [phonetic], Math Faculty.
>> John Wood, Learning Assistance Center representing
the Management Association.
>> And we'll just see our guests [inaudible].
>> [ Inaudible comment ]
>> Anthony Certa [phonetic].
>> [ Inaudible comment ]
>> President.
[ Inaudible introductions ]
>> Welcome.
>> Okay, thank you.
So the first item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes
from the Regular Meeting Number 22, March 28, 2013.
You have in your packet.
>> I have 23.
I don't have 22.
>> I'm sorry.
>> I have Regular Meeting Number 23 -- that's today's.
>> Oh I'm sorry.
Maybe the agenda doesn't sync up so let's just say
that it is Regular Meeting Number 23.
Or we will verify which one it is and make that correction.
Do I have a motion?
I'm sorry, I need a motion.
>> Today's agenda says there's a Meeting Number 22.
>> Right, so...
>> And the old one is [inaudible].
>> Right, so we'll figure it out.
And we'll sort it out and we'll make that correction.
Thank you Austin.
Do I have a motion to approve?
>> Motion to approve minutes.
>> Second?
>> Second.
>> [Inaudible] discussion.
>> Okay.
>> Oh no, you can't [inaudible].
That's right.
I need a second from a voting member of the committee.
>> I'll second.
>> Thank you Denise.
>> You're welcome.
>> Okay, now discussion.
Anybody has anything that they would
like to ask or say in this?
Hearing none, those in favor declare by saying I.
>> I.
>> I.
>> Opposed?
Abstain?
>> Abstain.
>> Stan abstains.
Julie abstains.
[Inaudible] I am not [inaudible].
Okay, so the minutes are approved
with that one we'll verify that it was --
whether it was meeting 22 or 23.
Thank you.
Okay, public comment.
Is there anybody here from the public
who would like to comment?
>> I'd like to make a comment that I don't know
if there's a right time to mention it
but I just heard today that the school's going to be withholding
or asking students that took [inaudible] claim,
to repay the money.
Is this true?
>> Repay the money?
>> The money they received for [inaudible].
>> Financial aid.
>> Financial aid.
>> The answer to that is an equivocal no.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> All students will be held harmless in whatever
as we work our way through that.
>> Thank you.
>> Unequivocal no I guess I should say --
alright, unequivocal no [inaudible].
>> Bob, let me follow up.
Does that mean the school is going to pay for the money?
>> We are in the process of reviewing what may need
to be paid back to the federal government
from a financial aid point of view.
>> Okay.
>> And we don't know yet, A, if we have to pay back, B,
what that amount would be.
But presumably if there was something that needed
to be paid back, it's the college would --
would have to pay those fines as opposed to the students.
>> Okay.
>> Okay? But we're in the process of sorting all
of that out right now.
Okay, anything else from anybody?
>> I'd just like to make a comment in memory
of Dave Krause [phonetic] who was a member of this committee,
who gave a lot to this school, he cared a great deal
and contributed -- I remember to this committee
and I see him in the minutes here.
And may this be a reminder to all of us
to really enjoy our efforts and profession here at [inaudible].
>> Yes, thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Here, here.
>> Okay so I just -- the minutes indicate just officially --
the agenda indicates the appointment of these new members
and this was just something to verify today
but I'll just quickly mention for the sake of the minutes,
Dave LeClaire was appointed
as a [inaudible] Association Representative replacing Kent
Yamaguchi [phonetic].
>> Yes.
>> And then we have 1 vacancy that Austin will go back
to his board and talk about filling.
>> Can I ask...
>> Yes.
>> ...what Dave's position is?
>> Dave is the Assistance Financial Aid Manager
or Director - I'm not sure what his exact title is -
but he's a manager [inaudible]...
>> I just haven't met him so I was just curious.
>> ...financial aid.
Yes.
>> Thank you.
>> I can give him a call if you'd like.
He might be over [inaudible].
Do you want me to step out in the hall?
>> If you want to.
And then Julie is our new appointment
for the Academic Senate -- from the Academic Senate.
Rudy is the appointment that is replacing Dave Krause.
It also should be noted for the record
that the district has come to an agreement
with Issue CFT [inaudible] that basically states that --
Issue CFT has an appointment
and that CSEA will have an appointment.
>> That's correct.
>> In other words, no longer will Issue CFT be required
to use one of its appointments as a union representative.
Its appointments can be primarily be whatever --
I think it's 2 that you have
that they can be just 2 [inaudible] and representatives
and that the union appointment will be...
>> Its own separate identity [inaudible].
>> ...its own separate entity.
>> Thank you.
>> And it will be - in this case - it's CSEA.
>> Correct.
>> Did I make that clear enough?
>> In other word, the classified union issue has their own seat.
It's not a classified position.
It's just a union position that was given to us.
>> And how did you get that?
>> Julio worked very *** that one, thank you very much.
>> At the table -- at the bargaining table?
>> No, no, no.
>> Basically that was -- what would you call it?
>> Can we say it was a - I don't want to be stepping
out of bounds - can we say
that it was a negotiated item per our...
>> Well it was a grievance.
It was agreed.
>> It was agreement...
>> It was agreed through the process.
It went through the mediation process.
And in mediation it was agreed
that the district would agree to this.
You guys might recall that at one time the district had taken
the position that these were shared governance bodies:
AD1725 bodies.
And as a result of that,
the Academic Senate represented the faculty.
And the Classified Senate represented the
Classified Employees.
Issue before it was Issue CFT, took issue with that and said
that even though it was agreed upon by the group
of people they represented from the Associated --
from the Academic Center that they represented
from the Classified Senate, they represented
from the Management Association, they represented
from the Associated Students and are represented
from the quote-unquote administration
that the representation for all of the 9 standing subcommittees
within the college council would be represented
by the shared governance body known as the Academic Senate
for Faculty and the shared governance body known
as the Classified Senate.
For classified issue decided that they did not want
to quote-unquote give up their --
one of their appointments to a union representative
because what was decided during the time
that this group put the ground rules together
and College Council discussed those ground rules and voted
on those ground rules and accepted those ground rules,
is that whenever there was a need for union representation
such as on BRAC, issue would have to provide one of its seats
to a union representative.
So issue took issue with that.
They grieved it.
It went through a mediation process.
At the table during mediation, it was agreed that for BRAC
that if the union got its own representative on BRAC, that,
that would satisfy their needs and desires
and that's what they signed on the dotted line for
and we signed on the dotted line for
and that's where we are today.
And all of this took place probably 5-6 weeks ago.
And it was -- the 5-6 week ago --
in other words the settlement took place
after a process had started probably 12-14-15 months ago.
>> So has the district changed its position?
So if the faculty union would like a seat on BRAC,
how would they go about it
because you know what the next sentence is going to be?
>> Yes, I think that you would basically make that presentation
or make that proposal to the administration
and we'll go from there.
I can't speak for how the administration feels on that.
>> Okay.
>> But certainly if you put it forward,
then it would have to be considered.
>> Okay, thank you.
I appreciate your response.
>> Okay, so that's -- so that will just make sure everybody's
poll on that in the minutes will somehow reflect what I said
in 3 sentences.
Okay [inaudible].
>> [ Inaudible comment ]
>> Yes, we'll figure it out.
Okay so Rudy and then Melva is the appointment --
this says Melva Alvarez.
So we've got to clarify the E and the F on this.
And we will.
So we'll figure that out.
So make a note of that Cindy.
Okay, so now we get to the some
of the [inaudible] we're going to talk about today.
So Item 5 is 12-13 in Budget Report
and in your packets you have Business and College Services,
[inaudible] team Physical Report, and I just want
to quickly go over this.
>> [ Inaudible comment ]
>> Oh you have it up there?
Oh great.
>> It would be hard to move it.
>> Oh I see.
You guys don't have [inaudible].
[ Inaudible background discussion ]
>> Okay, so we go to the first slide here.
Oh wow.
>> Yes. [Inaudible]
>> Okay. I'm going to make a note about this projector.
Let's just the -- the first line -- what you're looking at there,
this is as of May 31st, 2013.
And what you have is the actuals for May.
So we have beginning cash of 7 point 4 million dollars.
And then you see the cash in amounts that are coming
in from the various sources.
So we have our apportionment, we have the tuition.
RDA stands for redevelopment agency.
And property tax revenue.
Lottery and other income that is also of a local nature.
Inner fund borrowing, if we had any and we did not during
that period where we borrow from ourselves
out of our various funds,
we have 2 funds that we borrow from.
One if Fund 64 which is our Gatsby post-employment
benefit program.
And then we have an insurance refund.
And what that means is that we were able to - we've amassed
over a period of years --
some of money tied to our anthem blue cross insurance.
That because of a positive or I should say
because of lower usage of the insurance,
we actually accrued some refund on previous premiums.
So in this case that accrued and we actually drew down on
that to the point of [inaudible] dollars
to help this with our budget.
It was a budgeted -- it was a plan in our budget plan
and we drew down on it in May and booked it.
Actually booked it early in the year
but it's reflected here in May.
Then we had cash in from deferred portion.
We've talked about deferrals over the --
you know the last many months.
So we actually had payment from the state for some
of the monies that are owed us.
And then we had the TRANs -- the capitals letters but it's Tax
and Revenue Anticipation Note: TRAN.
Tax and Revenue Anticipation Note: TRAN.
And that was an amount of 10 million dollars and again
that was an amount that was agreed to borrow
from the LA County Office of Education in a fund
that they developed for that purpose.
So then we had cash out and through May we've expended --
and this is all tied to our unrestricted General Fund I
as you can see and over the 11 months we had cash
out of almost a 102 million dollars.
And it shows the inner fund borrowing that we did
and we ended up with a balance
of 6 point 9 million dollars for the month of May.
As we project into the end of June, this is a very, very --
well I'll get into it at the next slide a little bit more.
But you'll basically see here, this is what we're projecting
and you're showing that --
or we're showing at the bottom a balance
of 17 point 4 million dollars is what we're projecting.
Now if you go to the next slide which really looks bad
up there folks and I apologize for that...
>> It might be maybe a lamp.
>> It's -- you know, we need to make a note
about getting a new lamp put in here.
Do we not -- we can go make some quick copies
and make these bigger folks if you want
since you're all dealing with the small pages.
Seriously, I can do that if you want.
[ Inaudible background discussion ]
>> Just remember for the future that we're graying.
>> Yes. Ask Joe.
I literally have a magnifying glass
that when he brings stuff to me that I use.
But anyway, we're trying to save trees here
and we're ruining eyes while saving trees.
Okay, so anyway on the next slide - 12-13 Budget
and Projected Actual - and again I have
to emphasize the word projected
because anybody who's been here awhile knows it takes usually
through the end of July
to actually finally close the books.
But on a kind of a general perspective right now,
we give you the column of 11-12 Actual as a comparison.
The revenue is broken down into federal, state,
local and other financing sources.
There was an extraordinary thing that happened in 11-12
which is basically we used part of dental fund
to balance our books that year.
Otherwise it's more normally in these smaller amounts
that you see in 12-13.
So you see the projected, that's the kind
of the important line of federal funding.
You see that.
Our state funding - 72 million down a million dollars -
the first asterisk says, "Recalculation -
a portion will decrease by 1 million."
So the state did a recalc on us and decided
that we were due a million dollars less
than we thought we were due in the first place.
Local funding, 41 557 or 41 million.
Shortfall in non-resident tuition.
Other words, the number of international students
and the number of out-of-state students was less
than anticipated.
Therefore, there was a shortfall caused by that.
A shortfall in the redevelopment agents
and the redevelopment agency funds.
Now we expect that we will be made whole
for the redevelopment agency funds at some point and time,
but there -- we're still waiting to hear exactly how much
and when that will be.
Then as far as expenditures, you see our academic salaries
and that includes the estimate for the adjuncts' salary
through the Summer I Session.
Okay, Summer I prior known as Extended Spring, now Summer I.
So we added I want to say we had roughly 400 plus sections
that we added so we had to provide funding
for those sections: primarily academic salaries.
So we budgeted for that.
You can see the rest of it.
Employee benefits and the academic --
or the supplies and materials and what have you.
Long story short, we are anticipating --
we had 3 million less revenue.
We had you know whatever amount that was -
5 million of so - less expenses.
We are expecting to have a revenue over our estimate
or [inaudible] over expenditures of a little
over a million dollars.
Now in truth, that number will likely be higher, okay?
How much higher we don't know yet.
Okay? But the number will likely be higher as it is every year.
However, I have to say that there are other things -
other adjustments - that will be made that will draw
down on the higher number, but that's kind
of where we are right now.
You see our reserve.
You see what our annual operating contingencies are
and you'll see that the projected fund balance
at the end is at the moment almost 22 million dollars.
>> Can I ask where the Prop 30 money would be
in the revenue section?
>> The Prop 30 money is tied into the state funding line.
You'll see some of that there in that state funding line.
>> Shouldn't that be 15 million higher than budgeted
since we didn't budget for Prop 30 to pass?
>> What you see here -- this is an accrual budget
as opposed to a cash budget.
And that Prop 30 money basically is there to fund the deferrals,
the monies that are owed us.
When we get in and we talk briefly about the memo
which I think we provide here and I provided the Board
of Trustees, I'll explain that a little bit more.
>> Since we're talking about Prop 30 money,
I've got to get [inaudible].
When we realized we had the money and we decided
to start distributing out, how was that tied to planning?
>> Okay, ask you question?
>> Alright one of the things we kept getting dinged on,
on [inaudible] is that we don't tie [inaudible] expenditures
to planning.
And we've got all this money that we weren't expecting
and we started distributing it.
Can you tell me how or if it said, "Okay,
let's look at our plan.
This is -- the money should be distributed this way.
>> Well there was about 6 point 7 million we anticipated
and most of that -- well most -- 3 and a half million of that,
maybe 4 million went to additional classes and teachers.
Okay. If you look at the balance of the rest of the funding
that was spent and you look at the educational master plan,
you'll see that all that money was tied very specifically
to the goals in the educational master plan.
So basically we took that amount of money
and we allocated it per the educational master plan
and that's what we did.
>> Okay.
>> And that was distributed throughout here.
But as we get into it a little bit later in the meeting here,
we're going to actually talk
about more specifically how we're going to do a better job
at [inaudible], planning and budgeting together.
And we're actually going to start a little bit
on a little exercise today that actually does that, okay?
>> One more question.
On the TRAN, it shows that we borrowed the money.
Now I was at the board meetings when they talked about the TRAN.
Have we used that money yet or is it sitting
in an account gaining interest
to pay off the interest [inaudible].
>> No, that money was used.
>> It was used.
>> Because if you remember the May cash flow projections,
and you'll see how we started with beginning cash balance
of June with [inaudible] 8 thousand, 947 dollars.
>> [Inaudible], I'm sorry.
[Inaudible] on this one?
>> Yes. The state owed us 26 million maybe?
Okay between the -- enrollment protection account
and the deferral buybacks, the district is owed a total
of 37 million dollars.
>> Alright.
>> Ok, we were to receive
and did receive 16 point 1 million dollars on June 24th.
Okay? We were then to receive and we'll see
if we do receive another 10 million dollars
on July 5th of 2013.
>> Okay.
>> Okay? We are still owed another 11 million dollars.
We don't have any idea yet when we're going to get that money.
Okay? It's -- that's an IOU from the state.
So the reason why I mentioned that in this context is
because the TRAN money was basically cashed right
around the latter part of April - mid-April to late April -
in order to cover the cash needs of the district.
They've got time.
It continues to take somewhere between 8
and 10 million dollars a month to fund district operations.
And the budgeting process and the budget
of course is an estimate but the budgeting process is an accrual
process whereas cash is what operates things
on a daily basis.
Okay? So even though for example it shows that we have --
that we think we might end the year with 21 million dollars,
that's not 21 million dollars cash in the back.
>> Okay.
>> That's what's owed us in one form or another.
>> Okay. If I hear you correctly,
it sounds like we're still owed
about 10 million -- over 10 million.
>> Eleven.
>> But as soon as we get it, we're going to have to pay
that back to the TRAN.
>> That's a good point, Dan.
Exactly right.
What happens is that what we've done is we've used the Tax
and Revenue Anticipation Note money
and we've used inter-fund borrowing.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. To -- from a cash point of view to keep us going.
>> Okay.
>> Okay? So that deferral money should not be looked
on as new money.
It's just money that we're going to use --
that we'll use to pay ourselves back from the things
that we've done.'' Thanks, a good clarification.
Okay so that's the -- so where we are for 12-13,
that's pretty much where we are.
Now next month when we meet,
we'll have a much clearer picture.
We'll have more numbers and move clarification.
We'll be getting closer to closing the books.
Those of you who -- some of you may actually get impacted
by this but the auditors are here.
This is auditing season.
We have a new auditing firm: Vicenti, Lloyd & Stutzman.
They've been here all week doing their field work
and so there are deeply into looking at all these things
and asking all kinds of good questions and I was talking
with the auditor right before I came in here
and she says we're looking pretty good so far.
So that's a good thing.
>> And EOP&S came out with flying colors.
>> Good. There you go [inaudible].
We want here.
Thank you.
>> A little stressful, but we're lucky.
Bob, can I ask a question to you about the lottery money?
Is the lottery money only used for academic divisions?
I mean, is it only distributed to academic divisions?
>> It used for instructional purposes.
>> For supplies [inaudible]?
>> Yes, for example, the library gets a good chunk
of lottery money.
>> Right, right.
>> So I believe that it's used [inaudible] I think it's
by law it states you have
to meet certain instructional purposes, I believe.
Okay? Okay so...
>> Rob?
>> Yes?
>> I have 2 questions.
One, I understand that over the weekend there was a Nike
commercial and the school got paid for it.
Where does that money fit into the various sections there?
And two are we doing -- is the school doing enough to try
to have more commercials or [inaudible]
to acquire more cash for the school?
>> Yes. The answer is --
we actually received 15 thousand dollars
from the production company who produced the NIKE spot.
And we rented the stadium too then.
And that money goes into - and we're going to do a presentation
in a few minutes - but it goes into the local revenue pot.
I have it here.
And it -- we call it civic center permit money.
And we rent out things on a regular basis.
Yes. So it's in what we call local funding.
So if you earned a local funding,
that's where that money gets deposited.
And we'll get even more specific.
The answer to your question is we are trying to expand
that kind of operation.
>> [ Inaudible response ]
>> We do have challenges with production companies and things
with our neighbors across the street on the Delmar.
With one of the calls that I got and Joe got on Sunday
at home regarding that Nike filming
and there was a discussion
about whether those stadium lights will be
on after 10 o'clock at night or not.
And the neighbors are not happy and I agree
that they were not on.
But yes, so the answer is you do more of that.
>> Thanks.
>> Okay, so let's keep on moving on here.
In the Item Number 6, Community College [inaudible],
California State budget agreement document.
The -- this is a good summary of where things are now.
You are all probably aware that the governor has not
yet signed the budget but it's every likelihood that he will.
There's some debate about trailer bills
but also the Public Records Act, the disclosure thing,
who pays that, and that's literally what's slowing things
up right now.
But it's anticipated that he will sign.
From a community college point of view,
basically this is what community college has got.
We got something called Enrollment Restoration.
And I'll talk more about that later but basically
to restore workload that had been taken away from us,
plus to fund growth is 1 point 6 3 percent of additional money
that we will get to do that,
assuming we hit our growth numbers.
Then there is a cost of living adjustment
or what is commonly known as a COLA
and there's 1 point 5 7 percent COLA.
So those are the 2 primary [inaudible] sources of funds.
In addition to that, those of you who've been working here
at the community colleges
for a long time remember something called
matriculation dollars.
Those matriculation dollars are now called Student
Success Dollars.
And one point, those dollars were as much
as 100 million dollars and then from 2007-8
when the bottom fell out, all of that was reduced down to as low
as 50 million dollars.
So in the negotiations this year, they were able
to get another 49, kind of bringing us back
to where we were, back in 2006-7 or something
like that back in those days.
So we - PCC - will get some additional portion
of the 49 million dollars.
So it's 50 plus 49.
And 49 is the new money and so we'll get some of that.
Prop 39 Energy Efficiency Dollars: that was a proposition
that was approved by the voters at the last go around.
The dust settled.
Community colleges are going to get 48 million of that.
We have already applied
for about 888 thousand dollars' worth of funding that would go
into energy efficiency projects.
Everything from solar - you know - solar operations
and more efficient boilers and things like that.
Yes sir?
>> I actually had a question because I remember...
>> And by the way, this is John Frazier for those
of you who do not know.
John is our new [inaudible].
>> Thank you.
>> Welcome.
>> About -- I think it was about a year ago,
there were discussions of getting a fuel cell
on campus if I'm not mistaken?
And I am curious because that would be revenue generation
and I feel like it would fall under the Prop 39.
>> It's a good question to ask
of the Facilities Standing Committee and Ruben Smith
who is our Executive Director.
There was discussion for several years about a fuel cell project.
That discussion as far as I've heard has sort of gone
into the back burner - no pun intended -
in favor of some other projects
that they're talking about right now.
But Ruben would be a good guy to talk to about that.
I don't have the exact answer for you right now.
>> Thank you.
>> Anyway, so we've got an application in for 888 thousand
and we actually might do better than that
because as it turns out, not every college is in a position
to propose something right now.
So it's very likely that they'll be a little bit more led
to the pie for those who are submitting to Sharon.
So we're hopeful we'll get more than that.
Deferred maintenance: the state has not funded scheduled and/or
deferred maintenance for many years.
Probably 6-7-8 or more years.
So they have put -- they're putting
into the budget 30 million dollars and again,
we will be able to apply for some of those monies.
It's a matching - you know - dollar for dollar thing.
Now that does not impact the general fund.
It will impact our Fund 41 - our Capital Outlay - and/or fund --
I think it's Fund 42, our Scheduled Maintenance Fund.
But that's more money coming into us to deal
with our deferred maintenance which is good.
Online Education Coordination Access:
there is a 16 point 9 million dollar amount
of money available.
The long story there is that, that money is likely going
to be towards being invested in perhaps trying
to get volume discounts tied to learning management systems.
Perhaps trying to come up with some type
of master online courses in certain disciplines.
The whole idea is to -- and this is Governor Brown,
it's one of the things that he wants to do is try
to help the community colleges - and I believe
that CSU got some sort of money as well - to create more
of a consortia arrangement towards online education
for -- yes?
>> How much approximately are we paying
for [inaudible] right now?
>> Good question.
I'm near the blackboard now.
Thirty-eight thousand?
>> Really?
>> No, no, I'm sorry.
It's closer...
>> Seventy-five?
>> ...to a hundred thousand.
It's close to a hundred thousand dollars.
>> Okay.
>> Thirty-eight thousand is the Blackboard Connect.
>> Okay.
>> It's closer to a hundred thousand.
>> Alright.
>> Annually.
>> Alright, thank you.
>> Yes, that's right.
Okay, and then EOPS and DSPS,
both of those programs had great strong lobbyists this year.
And they both resulted in getting allocations
of additional 15 million dollars per program.
So again, we will share in some amounts of those monies.
And then CalWORKs as an entity which is basically a program
that helps employee -- students while they go
to school [inaudible].
>> Single parents.
>> Single -- is there [inaudible] type --
single parents.
>> Single parents with children, yes.
>> Okay. They had an upgrade -- an increase of 8 million dollars
and the statewide academic set got an increase
of 150 thousand dollars.
So that's pretty much where we are
on the state level as far as the budget.
And now part of our challenge is to dissect all of this
and figure out what amounts of this is going to end up coming
to our community college.
For those of you who are not aware,
there's 112 California community colleges in 72 districts
and everybody's involved in the same exercise right now.
Okay so, that's that.
>> Okay, wait, wait.
Before we do that one.
This is all very good news but I've got
to ask you about one thing.
When we're talking about restoration and cost
of living adjustments you mentioned that that assumes
that we meet our [inaudible] numbers.
Did we meet our FTE requirement for 2012-2013?
>> Yes. And I'm going to roll into that right now.
>> Okay.
>> Okay? But let me answer your question specifically.
We had - including growth - we had a target
of 19 thousand 630 credit FTES and probably another 38 hundred
to 4 thousand noncredit if I remember correctly.
We are collecting on every bit of that FTES that now known
as Summer I is what brought us to that place and then
which we do in any given year.
If we don't quite make it we can borrow - you know -
a little bit from the incoming.
And that's normal.
That's the way that we normally --
every community college district does business --
to make sure that they hit those targets.
Now in past years as everybody knows,
PCC and many community colleges exceeded their funded FTES.
And we were doing that for many years as many others were.
This year that didn't happen.
This year we came right in and we hit it.
Okay?
>> Okay. Now, I'm going to ask you
about the Extended Spring that's now Summer I.
In the email sent out by Dr. Bell,
it looked like the school had a choice between making it spring
and letting the students get the credit
or pushing it off to summer.
Is that what happened?
We had to make a choice between the two?
>> I'm not sure I understand your question, yes.
>> Okay. The email went out and basically the impact was
that the students who thought they were going to get credit
for Extended Spring were not going
to get credit for Extended Spring.
And if you read the email it said, "Blah, blah, blah, blah.
We had [inaudible] with the chancellor's office directive
in order to qualify for 2013 summer apportionment
to the college."
In other words...
>> Well okay this is --
I'm going to answer it but I don't want to get
into a long story [inaudible].
The long and the short of it is, is that there was discussion
with the chancellor's office.
The chancellor's office said, "Yes, you can do this."
>> Alright.
>> In subsequent discussion with the chancellor's office,
they changed their mind and said,
"Well maybe you can't do this."
>> Okay.
>> So in order to do two things, A,
make sure that no students were harmed in the process.
>> Right.
>> And B, to make sure that we didn't put what would
essentially have been -- it turned out it was going to be
about 5 and a half million or 6 million.
But the number originally was
about 7 point 2 million of FTS at risk.
We decided to say, "Okay,
Extended Spring is now Summer I," and that will allow us
with no questions asked to claim it as 12-13 apportionment.
That was one thing.
And then as everyone knows now, there was some number
of students - last count was 133 - who had reported some level
of concern but only really 41 had actual provisional
admissions that were caught up in this.
Now as Dr. Bell's email indicated a couple of days ago
and I'm very excited to say,
these stripe teams have been very, very successful
in contacting the universities.
And most thus far are being very supportive.
You know USC, UCLA, UCI, [Inaudible], Long Beach,
Cal Poly -- and these are just off the top of my head
but they're all coming back saying, "Yes, it's okay."
>> I'll add to that [inaudible] shortly
that will say that [inaudible].
>> Yes. So it's -- so it's very good news and a lot
of people have worked very, very hard.
Cynthia Levoe [phonetic] has led the charge
but it's really exciting to note, the counselors
and classified staff and you know all kinds
of people have jumped in you know
for the good of our students.
And it seems to be working.
So we've resolved the fiscal concern.
We've resolved students' concerns we believe.
And now we're just working our way
through the financial aid piece of this and then we'll be
over it -- or past it.
>> By the way, I've got to ask, we've been running into a lot
of problems since our decision
to eliminate winter intersession.
It's affecting student academicals
and their academic plans and it's affecting our budget.
Are we going to reconsider reinstating winter intersession?
>> It's a negotiation matter and I'm not going to touch
that with a 50 foot pole [inaudible].
>> Okay.
>> It's -- you know -- okay.
And it's a board decision is what it boils down to
and they you know -- I know it will be discussed
at the July 7th board meeting so there you go.
[Inaudible] 17th board meeting.
John and then Austin and then [inaudible].
>> Okay so what I'm hearing is that we wouldn't have lost
out on full time equivalency students -- my --
I guess I have really 2 questions.
The first being so if we added the sections that were counted
in Extended Spring to any different session
or let's say the summer that was Summer II I guess,
if we added the sections to Summer II,
would those be counted towards the summer I guess FTES count
for [inaudible]?
>> No, you can do whatever you want with summer enrollment: I,
II -- summer you can do anything you want.
And again, in normal operations and I really don't want
to turn this meeting into a discussion of this folks
so I'm going to try to wrap this up really quick.
But in normal operations,
any district can do whatever they deem in the best interest
of that district relative to just a claiming the portion
for the trailing year or for the coming year.
It depends on how you're managing your assessment
and your income and so on and so forth.
>> Okay and...
>> So this incident had nothing to do
with that type of situation.
>> Oh okay, then in that case would the college be willing
to I guess share the email
from the chancellor's office basically giving us an ultimatum
on whether or not we are going to accept these
as spring or summer courses?
>> I have no idea what you're talking about John
and that's another question I wouldn't touch
with a 40 foot pole, okay?
That's not appropriate for this meeting and this discussion.
Sorry. Okay.
Yes Austin?
>> I just wanted [inaudible].
So you said that the summer-spring classes were
marked as summer [inaudible] full time [inaudible] the
2012-2013 year?
>> Yes, in other words, courses that are offered in any summer
of any given year can be claimed as trailing apportionment
to the year that they are trailing - in this case 12-13 -
or they can be claimed in the year
in which they are being generated.
Because of the state's accounting,
often those decisions are not made
until several months later...
>> Yes.
>> ...as all the numbers sort of bubble
to the surface and people decide.
In this case, we know because we didn't go over FTES.
We know that we want to because we --
and when I get to this memo, I'll explain why.
We know we want to make absolutely certain
that we are maximizing out what we would get for 12-13
because of this workload reduction requirement that I'm
about to talk to you guys about.
>> Oh okay.
So we want it to count for 2012-13.
I'm just confused.
Can we just keep it as Extended Spring?
Wouldn't that count for 2012-2013?
Because of the calendar decisions and the decision
that they chancellor's office is making,
we decided to do what we think is the proven thing
and not make an issue of it at the moment
and at least move forward.
>> Okay.
>> Okay?
>> Okay [inaudible].
>> Okay. Alright, Victor?
>> Yes, speaking of inappropriate questions,
just wondering how come there -- just 1 single email was sent
out to students notifying them of this issue with transfer.
Why isn't it on the front page of the website [inaudible] see?
>> Inappropriate question.
Thank you for asking.
Okay, moving on.
But I appreciate that.
I understand everybody's need to say what they need to say
but we want to kind of keep the forum
to what the forum needs to [inaudible] today.
Thank you though.
Okay, so the other thing is, so on May 29th,
or whenever the May board meeting was.
I prepared an update regarding the budget for the board.
And what I want to do is turn your attention primarily
to Page 2 and this is where I quickly went
over for the board what the impact of the budget was
as far as the May revise.
And essentially what the May revise was,
the conference committee made some adjustments
but essentially it's pretty much the same -- the same thing.
I already mentioned about on Item Number 1
that in Total row 37 million and how that money is
at some point going to come to us,
at least as time [inaudible].
Nothing has changed there.
I wanted to point out to you that deferrals
as a concept are not over.
That in fact the state is planning in its budget
to defer something like 4 billion dollars to all
of the public agencies that it supports as it continues
to work its way out of its financial hole that it's been
in for the last 6, 7, 8 years.
So that deferral will somehow filter
down into the community colleges and will have to be dealt with.
Okay, and then we --
please remember that the deferral buyback funding is not
new dollars.
We talked about that a little bit earlier thanks to Dan.
These are funds due to the district that were not received
in a timely manner that required borrowing
and explains what we did to work our way through that.
Now the district is also owed something called RDA funds
or Redevelopment Agency monies.
Some of you might recall very briefly that Governor Brown
and the legislature some a little over a year
and a half ago now I guess it is - maybe 2 years ago -
decided that they were going to shut down redevelopment agencies
and they were going to ask all of those redevelopment agencies
to return monies to the state that were not --
that not deemed supportive of redevelopment.
In order to do that, they created a bunch of what's known
as successor agencies.
I happened to sit on 5 of those successor agencies
that are representing our college.
It's Pasadena, South Pasadena, Sierra Madre, Rosemead
and San -- where's the other one?
[Inaudible] No, South Pass, Pasadena,
Rosemead, Sierra Madre...
>> Arcadia.
>> ...and Arcadia.
Thank you.
And so each one of those communities have
redevelopment agencies.
Each one of those communities are in the process
of winding those redevelopment agencies down.
Each one of those agencies [inaudible] successor agencies
and these boards have to decide what goes back
to the state and what stays.
It's an arm wrestle.
It's a battle.
Obviously the cities don't want to give up the money.
The developers who are caught in the middle
of it don't want to give up the money.
So it's a bunch of legal fighting back and forth.
The bottom line is, is
that whereas the community colleges used
to regularly get redevelopment money,
they're not getting that now.
At one point, Governor Brown thought that [inaudible] able
to collect last year on the order of 3 billion
or 3 point 8 billion, one of those 2 numbers.
In reality, he only collected something on the order
of 800 million dollars leaving this gaping hole of money.
Thanks to one of our legislators - I don't remember who -
there was a trailer bill that was put in place
that said the state would make the --
hold the community colleges harmless and make them whole
in terms of that RDA money.
The problem is no one sorted out when we would be made whole
and how we would get our money.
So what the chancellor's office has been telling us,
"You're going to get your money.
Don't know when.
We know you're owed this, but we're not sure
when you're going to get it."
So we are owed 12-13 redevelopment agency funds
but again, we don't know exactly how much
because of the crazy accounting that's taking place right now
and we don't know when we're going to get it.
But we know it's going to come to us at some point.
Okay? And so that was that.
Then basically the 1 point 5 7 percent of COLA -
that's 87 point 5 million to the system - PCC usually gets
about 1 point 8 percent, give or take of that.
So in our case, we should bring
in about 1 point 5 million dollars --
1 point 6 million dollars.
The May revise also includes what's known as restoration
or growth funding: 1 point 6 3 percent.
The number's about 89 million dollars.
Our share of that is in the neighborhood
of 1 point 6 assuming we hit the FTES targets that they set forth
for us through 12 -- or for 13-14.
Ophelia [inaudible] and her staff assisted by Matt
and others are working on the numbers for 13-14.
They'll be very, very, very aggressive targets.
Credit will be 21 thousand plus FTES.
Noncredit -- and I don't have the exact number in front of me
so don't quote me but they're going
to be very aggressive targets.
We're going to be doing a lot of instruction
at this campus in 13-14.
A lot. But -- and then we talk about the extra --
what we think is our percentage
of the Extra Matriculation Dollars
or Student Success and Support Dollars.
I hesitated because I put a number of 900 thousand in there.
It's not going to be quite that much
because of the [inaudible] numbers are a little bit less
but it will be -- it will be several hundred --
it will be probably close to that amount of money.
And what's going to be good about that is
when the matriculation dollars went
from a hundred million dollars down to 50 million dollars,
many colleges were forced to let go some of their 03 funded,
unrestricted funded people.
We opted to keep those people and we shifted the payroll
from restricted 03 dollars to unrestricted: i.e.,
we shifted it to the district.
Now we'll be able to shift some of that payroll back,
therefore have those extra dollars available
to fund other things on campus.
So in essence, that's additional revenue that we will get
and be able to use elsewhere.
So that's a good thing.
Okay, and then there's a bunch of [inaudible] dollars.
I kind of talked about that.
Okay, then we won't talk about [inaudible]
because that actually didn't happen.
We wanted it to happen but it didn't happen except
for the 30 million that went to deferred maintenance.
The online we talked about and then the adult education,
what actually that turned out to be was 25 million dollars
that has been set aside for planning grants and -
over the next 2 years -
where local community college districts
and local either high school districts
or K12 districts will get together
and develop regional consortia for the provision
of adult education courses.
So in our case, we will likely work with Pasadena Unified
and Amani [phonetic] Union High School District:
those are the 2 districts
that presently have adult education programs.
And we will likely enter into a relationship with them
to be part of this -- the funding entity.
So at the end of 2 years when these planning grants are in
and submitted, then they're looking at --
for some reason the number 500 million dollars sticks in --
you know it's right there.
Five hundred million dollars in new funding
for adult education will be provided according
to the governor to use from now that will go
to these regional consortia
for the Providian of adult education.
Adult education are typically ESL classes,
high school diploma program classes, GED,
some skills training on very specific areas
of that type of thing.
Presently that is done
by our community education center on [inaudible].
Now -- and then we -- I talked a little bit about Prop 39.
Now the next one - the workload restoration -
this is kind of important.
In 2009 and 10 and in 2011-12, as the state was struggling
with its funding issues, it reduced the --
what they call workload reductions.
So of the 7 -- they went to all 72
of those community college districts that have 112 colleges
and then they said, "Okay,
whereas in the past you received X amount of credited FTES
and X amount of non-credited FTES,
you now are going to be reduced."
So in 9-10 they did that and then in 11-12 they did that.
In 9-10, they reduced our FTES by 816 --
a total of 816 credit and non-credited FTES.
That represented 3 point 6 million dollars
in less revenue that the college got.
In 11-12, they took 17 hundred credit and non-credit FTES
and that resulted in about 7 point 6 5 million less money
that we got.
So when you add that together, that's about 11-2,
11-3 in less revenue, okay?
They are now saying that districts must make that FTES
up in 13-14 and some portion of 14-15 if they want it back.
Now that's what they're saying now.
That could change but that's what they're saying now.
So we then, if we want to get our base restored
to effectively what it was at 2007-8 as I recall,
we've got between this academic year
and next academic year to get that done.
And if we're successful at getting that done,
then our base is permanently - he says with quotes -
but it's permanently brought back in 2007-8 level
and we effectively gain back 11 million dollars in revenue
that we're not getting now.
Yes Julie?
>> So are we talking about the 21 thousand students we were
talking about at Number 3-4
or are we talking 21 thousand plus almost 2
thousand [inaudible]?
>> What were the [inaudible]?
What we're talking about, we've got to restore
over the next 2 years about 25 hundred more FTES.
That's the goal.
Over -- and that 21 thousand includes some of that.
I'm not sure.
I don't remember how that all calculates out right now
because I haven't really studied it yet, but it's part
of the plan going forward as far as I know, right?
I'm not saying yes.
So we're planning for that.
>> But we're trying to hit 23?
>> Well no, I think what Matt's - if I'm right -
Matt do you want to speak?
>> No. I don't want to speak.
>> So we'll get clarification on that.
I'm not sure if we're trying to hit -- all I know is...
>> Yes I didn't understand how we're --
I mean that's a lot of...
>> I understand your question.
>> Yes.
>> It's a lot of classes.
It's a lot of everything.
>> Okay.
>> And I'm going to talk more about how we're going to try
to deal with that and believe me,
this is actually leading towards a budget discussion.
This is all -- I mean it's all --
I think it's important background [inaudible].
>> It really is.
>> Okay. Okay so anyway...
>> [Inaudible] can I just ask the question?
If we exceed the FTES, and other colleges do not?
>> That's a good question.
Because you're right and I wanted to say this
so thank you for that.
There's 2 things that will happen.
For those colleges who are not successful in restoring
to the base that they once had, the colleges that are successful
and go beyond that will have their bases raised even more.
In other words, the excess money that's left over will go
to those colleges who are able to go to the next level,
whatever that level was.
Those colleges who don't make it,
will be again permanently set at the lower base.
Okay? Okay?
So they're basically saying, "We're going
to give you all a year and a half
to make back what we took away from you."
Now, most of the college districts are not happy
about that so most will be speaking to a variety of folks
to try and probably stretch that time out longer.
But since this is the game that we know about,
this is the game that we have to play.
This is the game that we will play to try and make that back.
>> Well if you -- if we do exceed that
and then they change their mind, are we -- a gamble.
Is that right?
That we did it as a gamble?
>> Well I think what I was actually referring
to was the length of time.
The length of time seems unreasonable to me.
Basically they force you to take something
down for a long period of time...
>> Yes.
>> ...you know, and now they're forcing you to try to make it
up very -- at a very competitive time because just
as we are offering a zillion courses, right, so is Glendale,
so is Citrus, so is Mount Sack, so is [inaudible],
so is Rio Hondo, everybody's
in the same workload restoration mode right now.
So students have lots of options which is good for the students
but they suffered a long time waiting
for those options to come to them.
So you know, it's a strange world we live in,
in that regard.
Denise?
>> I have just one question
and for Mike [inaudible] for Matthew.
Are you listening to me [inaudible]?
>> Yes.
>> She can be very tough.
>> Very tough.
>> I'm going to talk to your kids one of these days.
>> No, they'll say I'm a great mom.
Do you -- will this [inaudible] 18 month period,
it's going to roll into accreditation correct?
Is this going to look good incoming to accreditation
that RFTES is up higher than [inaudible]?
>> I don't think from an accreditation point
of view this has a lot to do with [inaudible].
Ophelia, you just walked in at the right time.
>> I can only be here for a short time.
Oh thank you.
>> I think from accreditation point of view
and Matt might be able to speak to this, they're not going to --
they're going to want to know that the systems are working.
They [inaudible] -- they don't really care about this.
>> Oh no. Oh I'm so sorry.
>> That was just my [inaudible].
>> What they'll care about is
that collegiately how did we work, how did we become about,
how did we try to resolve it, how did we work together?
They'll care about that.
But whether we hit it or don't hit it, they won't care.
>> That's not going [inaudible].
>> No, [inaudible].
>> Okay, that's fine then.
>> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Okay, so we were just chatting a little bit Ophelia
about the workload restoration and our challenge to try to get
that 25 hundred back and all that kind of stuff
and I was verbalizing some general numbers
about credit FTES about goals for 13-14.
I didn't quite remember what they were.
And the question that Julie asked was whether or not
that number included some of the goal of trying
to get this 25 hundred back or not or is that just
to aggressively hit the 13-14 number from the state?
>> Okay, are you talking about the work that we're doing
to look at our FTES allocation to meet funding -
baseline funding - for 13-14?
>> Yes and on top of that we've got that 25 hundred we need
to try to make up, the 9-10 and the 11-12 reduction.
>> Right.
>> So Julie's...
>> I didn't bring my information...
>> But Julie's basic question was is --
did we exceed the 13-14 number but --
and try to make some of that 25 hundred back,
which that 25 hundred's still on top of that.
We've got to try to make back.
>> Okay, what I'm looking at in terms of our FTES targets
for 13-14 is to look at when there was workload reduction
from 2009-10.
>> Right.
>> So that's the baseline because that's
when the state asked of every college to cut FTES
and that's directly related to courses,
both in credit and non-credit.
Okay. So in looking at that baseline, we are then looking
at our projections for 13-14 to restore the FTES
at that baseline amount...
>> Yes.
>> ...which is, don't quote me...
>> Right.
>> ...22,674 FTES...
>> Give or take.
>> ...give or take.
About 21 thousand is classes and credit.
>> Great.
>> And about 13 hundred is in noncredit.
>> Great, okay.
>> Okay.
>> So the answer is yes, you are trying to recover some
of that FTES, at least the 9-10 FTES, and then we'll kind of see
where we are after that.
>> Right. And I'm still working on getting the numbers
because the -- we're looking at still having some
of Summer II count towards our 13-14 baseline.
>> Yes.
>> It's about 400 FTES or about a hundred sections.
I sleep and dream FTES.
I sleep and dream FTES.
>> She does.
She does. Trust me.
>> And so we are then targeting fall and spring,
however since we still have to include some Summer 14 FTES
into the 13-14 baseline,
those are the numbers I'm still working on.
And I will have those updated to Mr. Miller soon.
But that then translates into needing
to add quite a few more sections and that's what I'm trying
to figure out right now for fall, for spring and then
if we -- because we still have some of that [inaudible]
that goes to the 13-14 baseline.
So I will have those numbers hopefully tomorrow in terms
of fine tuning the FTES, the sections etcetera.
But we're talking quite a bit from 12-13 in terms
of the number of sections we're going to have to add.
I prefer to look at FTES because the section is not equal.
So we are aiming towards that FTES target.
But it means adding quite a few more sections.
>> Right.
>> Hundreds and hundreds of more sections to fall and spring.
>> Right. And again and Ophelia hit upon it --
and actually Ophelia has done a great segue
into the budget development part of this discussion today.
So you can grab one of those packets if you want.
>> Oh [inaudible].
Thank you.
>> Okay, alright so.
This is going to be a very high level discussion of getting us
to the point by the next meeting
of actually putting some hard numbers in front of you.
We actually have a set of hard numbers that when we looked
at them carefully yesterday,
we realized they weren't hard enough.
That they were still a little too squishy
and it wouldn't be good to put that stuff
out there [inaudible].
It's a high level fiscal term.
A little too whatever to present so we decided not to.
So let's just go to the first slide there and then in very,
very simplest terms, we have income
that comes to the district.
We subtract from that income all of our fixed expenses -
you know, salaries and health and welfare and utilities
and all that kind of stuff - and we then end
up whatever balance is left.
The remaining balance funds what we call discretionary spending
that would be in support of what might be additional
critical needs.
Okay? So just kind of bear that in mind as we go
into the next slide here.
So in looking at that, I mentioned earlier,
we're going to have a 12-13 ending balance.
At the moment, it's a million 17 thousand dollars.
Okay? Could be lower.
I'm willing to bet a hundred dollars because I'm cheap
that it's going to be higher, okay?
But for now there will be a carry forward ending balance
of some dollar amount, okay?
The reserve -- the reserve is defined as 2 categories: 1,
the 12 million dollars that the board
of trustees has traditionally said for a district of our size,
at minimum we want to put 12 million dollars as a reserve.
Then we have what I would call a contingency operating reserve.
You know God forbid an earthquake happens,
the [inaudible] pools start leaking all over the place,
things happen and we need money to deal
with something else, okay?
So you've got the 12 million that's there
and then you've got another you know 6 or 7 million dollars.
So we call that just for the sake of discussion a reserve
of 19 million dollars.
Now it's important to also state, that's not cash.
I wish it was cash.
It's basically from an accrual point of view 19 million dollars
that if everybody paid us what we were owed,
whether it's student enrollment fees, whether it is the State
of California and everything in between,
we'd have 19 million dollars.
The president of the college, I, others would love to get
to the point where we could literally put 12 million dollars
at least in a lock box of cash, in a fund earning interest
that actually is real, real money.
But that's just not the reality right now.
And the truth of the matter is I think --
well I shouldn't say it because I don't know, but I don't know
if there's that many districts
who actually have cash-cash in the bank.
But anyway, 19 million.
Now, on top of that ending fund balance and on top
of that reserve, we will have some amount of income.
Income defined as federal income,
state income and local income.
And we'll talk about that.
And then against that -- the ending balance, the reserve
and the income will be some kind of a fixed expense
that we will subtract from that.
And we're going to talk a little bit about that in a second.
Then you're going to have what I would call a balanced budget.
In other words, the income and the expenses matched
and whatever's left becomes
that which will fund quote-unquote critical needs.
Now we're going to talk a little bit today
about what those critical needs are.
There's some that are suggested to you.
We're going to open it up for discussion
and say what other critical needs do you think we have?
And we're going to write those down.
And then in a month from now or so when we get together,
we'll have a better idea of the budget,
we're going to see how much actual money we have
for critical needs.
And then based upon BRAC's discussions,
we might collectively decide where that money's going to go,
hence a linkage between planning and budgeting:
at least an initial linkage.
The beginnings of such that we can begin
to show as a process, okay?
And I know that you know Matt and Stephanie
and others are working on planning [inaudible].
Now there's one important thing and I just want
to point your attention to the asterisk
by this word "critical needs."
We want to drive FTES, we want to drive the addition
or the creation of full time [inaudible] student income,
which by the way we collect roughly 4,560 dollars
or whatever it is per FTES.
>> [Inaudible] 500 and what?
>> For credit [inaudible].
>> That's credit.
>> Yes, 4,560 dollars - give or take - per credit FTES,
about 32 hundred for noncredit enhanced,
and about 26 hundred give or take for just regular noncredit.
Enhanced is defined as ESL, some ABE...
>> Adult high school.
>> Adult high school diploma.
>> Vocational certificate.
>> Vocational certificate.
It means for some -- somebody decided [inaudible] --
anyway, it doesn't matter what you decide.
So you've got 3 levels of funding, okay?
Now if we drive FTES higher on a reduced
and more efficient expense based.
So what does that mean?
That means the less money we have to spend to generate
that FTES, the better off we are because the greater the delta
between income in and expense out
and that delta becomes what we can spend
on critical needs: additional things.
So, in plainer English because I probably just didn't speak
English but in plainer English,
basically if we did more LGI classes, if we were able
to offer courses that we know are the other courses
that all students needs -- not all, but that many students need
and therefore enroll in a very efficient way, if we're able
to offer online classes that may therefore result
in having more availability of classrooms to put more classes
in because we don't have students here all the time,
if we are able to generate revenue
from international students and out-of-state students
and what have you, in other words, more efficient ways
to generate the FTES that we collect right now will result
in additional funding that we can use for critical needs.
That's just in general.
So again, the enrollment management team is looking
at ways working with faculty and deans to try to do more of that.
>> And you also have income from the fee based courses.
>> And then income from our fee based courses,
contract education, the extension classes,
all of these things that generate income at less expense.
It's a goal.
It's a topic.
It's a target and if will provide more money
to do other things.
Okay? So now, let's turn over --
turn over my page and try to read that.
We'll get the projector fixes folks.
I apologize for that.
So what exactly are income and fixed expense categories?
Here's some pretty simple or [inaudible] some examples.
We talked about the fund balance.
Federal grants are just that.
Title V grants, various sources of income that come
in that are federal funded.
State: we have what we call Fund 01.
The word "unrestricted" is there
because it basically says you get the money by way of FTES,
by way of these things, apportionment.
We put the deferral dollars there
because we know there's money coming
through as base fund deferrals.
We talked about the growth of the restoration dollars,
the [inaudible] money and then the education protection account
monies which basically prop up and guarantee Prop 98
with the guarantee that the funding is there
for at least the next 7 years.
That's unrestricted.
We can spend that any way that we want to.
Then you have what's known as Fund 03 restricted dollars.
And examples of that disabled student DSPS dollars,
EOPS dollars, the so-called student success funds
and miscellaneous discretionary funds
such as the online money we talked about,
Prop 39 deferred maintenance CalWORKs.
In other words, all these monies come with strings.
All these monies come to us saying, "You can only spend them
on very prescriptive things."
So A, it's great because we get the money
to provide the services, but B, sometimes we can use that money
to relieve some of the pressure on 01 dollars.
And therefore, you know be able to use some
of those 01 dollars to do other things.
So that's another source of funding.
And then finally local funding,
student fees, 44 dollars per unit.
That money is collected however, we do not keep that money.
That money goes right back to the state
in what they call a Triple Dip or a Triple something or other
where this is what Maria was talking about yesterday.
Where you collect the money
and let's say you collect 10 million dollars, they just take
that 10 million off the top
of your apportionment payment till you bring it in.
So it's local funding but you really can't spend it.
You've got to -- you can spend it but the point is,
is that they reduce your apportionment as a result of it.
And then tuition fees, tuition fees of international
and out-of-state students.
Property taxes and then miscellaneous such as
that civic center revenue that we talked about earlier.
Okay, so what exactly is a fixed expense?
Well there's many of them but these 7 we know are going
to increase this year.
We know we're going to be funding [inaudible] increases
for our faculty and our staff.
We know we're going to have health, welfare
and benefit increases in what's going to average
about 8 percent increase.
We know our property
and liability insurance is going to go up.
Yes [inaudible]?
>> That 8 percent, how many years do we get something
like 2 million dollars?
>> Oh not very often.
>> It does not happen?
>> No.
>> I think that was a one-time thing, wasn't it?
>> Yes, what it is, that accumulated
over about 3 to 5 years.
And it has to do with experience rates.
If we have low experience rates in a given year, let's say our
on [inaudible] Blue Cross, then a portion of our premium is held
for us in reserve --
in a reserve fund but we get the control.
But if we have a high experience rate,
then we don't get anything back that year.
I don't think though that they charge us more.
We just don't get anything back.
But the higher the experience rate,
the greater the premium increase the following year.
>> Right.
>> When we started
with [inaudible] Blue Cross this year, they started out - Joe,
help me - 15 point 9 percent increase.
They ended at 9 point 9?
>> Yes.
>> At 9 point 9.
>> And they were projecting even higher than the 15 point 9.
>> That's right.
At one point they were I think almost 21 percent I heard
[inaudible] say.
Kaiser went up 9 percent this year.
And the [inaudible] HMO went up 6 point 9?
>> Went up to 9 percent.
Did not go up 9 percent.
>> Oh went up to 9 percent from...?
>> Seven point 9 [inaudible].
>> Okay, so it went up a couple points.
>> Is Obamacare [inaudible] any of this?
>> Yes and no.
We're trying to figure it out.
The Healthcare Recovery Act is something --
the Accountability Care Act
of America I guess is what it was called.
The long and the short of that is we don't know yet,
but we are going to be gearing up this year.
Our benefits committee is going to come together:
our shared government benefits committee.
We're having Keenan [phonetic] and Associates come
in a do first a complete and thorough education session
for everybody before we even start talking about services
and numbers and programs or what have you.
We're all going to get educated.
And then collectively, we'll go through this.
There is a thing called Cadillac Taxes.
You may have heard that expression.
Those of us that are in public employment typically have very
good coverage and the Affordability Care Act
of America basically penalizes entities for that coverage
and they tax as a result of it.
There are requirements for those who work 30 hour weeks
to start getting benefits.
I mean there's all kinds of things in here that are going
to impact us as early as 2014.
>> But depending on when our benefit year starts.
And [inaudible], I understand the district's benefit year
starts in October.
So it's not January 2014 for us.
January of 2014 was when it goes into effect.
But depending on the employer's benefit plan,
it starts at that moment.
>> Yes.
>> So we'll be doing a study to look at all those things.
The thirty hours...
>> Yes we're going to be digging very deep into that.
And that will be very much a shared [inaudible] thing
because at the end of the day, it's going to impact every one
of us in some form or fashion.
Okay, so on average though, when you add all that stuff up,
it goes up about 8 percent.
Property and liability insurance,
worker's compensation, we were trying to sort
that our yesterday a little bit but we've had a lot
of worker's comp claims of late.
So we're going to have to add probably
at least 300 thousand dollars more to that fund this year.
It's a self-insurance thing and we'll talk about that.
We agreed and are funding 10 new faculty positions in 13-14.
So that becomes added to our fixed expense.
That guy over there is very expensive
and he needs more money for accreditation.
So we are...
>> [ Inaudible comment ]
>> So actually Stephanie too.
Between the two of them, they're very expensive.
So we have to add money into that account to fund that.
And then school safety.
One of the things that will happen by the time fall starts -
August 26 semester starts - they'll be interior locks
on every door: every classroom door.
And that's just part of what we're going to be doing
to kick off -- I don't like the term
but it's the term the Active Shooter Plan for that
and some other things.
So we're having to have to invest some money into that.
So those are just examples.
If you flip the page, now we get into some things
that might be called critical needs.
Okay? So over the years through freezes and well --
through non-replacement of positions and other things,
the district has probably taken a hit on the classified side
of at least 50 positions or more?
And so we are down a lot
of support positions plus we need some new
and different types of positions such as a risk manager
and some other things.
So right now, Dr. Bell and I are engaged in working with all
of the managers in our areas and identifying what we would hope
to be positions that might be considered.
And if there is money to fund these positions,
we would be ready to present -- we are ready to present those.
>> Can I...
>> Yes ma'am.
>> ...make an addition to that for additional personnel?
If we're talking about 10 percent more students
and we have approximately 300 and something full time faculty,
it seems like we should be having
about 10 percent more faculty.
>> Yes and we -- you know so there's a what's known
as a full-time faculty obligation number.
Ours is about -- is 372.
Okay? We funded -- by adding these 10,
we're going to land somewhere around 380 to 384.
So we are above the so called full time faculty
obligation number.
That doesn't mean we can't add more full time faculty.
It doesn't mean we won't.
It means that that's something
that would be considered in the mix.
And we're assuming - and this is on Dr. Bell's side of the house
so I can't really speak to it - but if the deans
of the areas have needs, they are identifying those needs
through Ophelia's office and Dr. Bell's office
and they'll come to the table.
>> Is that our obligation in 19,600 students
or [inaudible] 23 thousand students?
>> It's an obligation based upon a history and a formula.
So what happens is every year,
it's not based upon what you might hit.
It's based upon the actual data that you did hit.
>> Okay.
>> So it would [inaudible].
>> It trails a little bit.
>> It will trail [inaudible].
>> Everything in this business seems to trail 12
to 18 months at least usually.
Okay. So that's additional personnel.
So now the Alemany Union High School District adult school
lease: that's an interesting one.
Alemany came to us probably 3 months or so ago and said,
"We can no longer afford
to operate the Rosemead Adult School," which is
on Rosemead Boulevard in Rosemead.
And it's a building that was built in 1998.
It has I think it's 15 very nice classrooms, nice atrium area,
it has kind of an outbuilding with 3 more classrooms,
it's got parking, it has all those kinds of things.
And they wanted to know if we wanted to take it
on as a satellite center.
We looked at it.
We talked about it.
We said probably not for 13-14 because we've got too many irons
in the fire but 14-15 would be something
that we might have interest in.
A lot happened in the last 90 days with the budget
and the this and the that and Ophelia woke up at 3 o'clock
in the morning and said, "Rosemead Adult School."
Something like that.
>> FTES.
>> Yes, exactly.
FTES. And the long and the short of it is,
is that if everybody agrees
or at least I think the recommendation's going to be
and assuming the board agrees, we very well might enter
into a 3 year lease to lease that building.
And there's 2 advantages to that: 1,
not only more classroom space to offer [inaudible] advantages.
The more classroom space to offer more classes.
Two, we have not really well served that part of our district
that I might call the southeast part
of our district for decades, right?
In fact, any number of students will tell you
that it could take anywhere from an hour to 2 hours by bus to get
from Rosemead to this campus with all
of the different [inaudible].
And it could take as long as a half hour or longer just
to you know in a car to get here for one reason or another.
As a result of that, Rio Hondo has been eating our lunch
for decades.
In fact, they established a satellite campus there
in El Monte not too long ago.
So we really believe that there's a number of students
who would really prefer to go to Pasadena City College
if we can get closer to them.
So in terms of general education courses, basic skills courses,
a place for online and you know hybrid type courses
and so on and so forth.
So that's something we are looking seriously in to help
with the space needs that we have.
So that's -- that could be considered a critical need.
Instructional equipment, marking dollars.
I mentioned to you that all of these other colleges
around us are all fighting for the same students right now.
So some of you may have seen some busses driving around town
that have the PCC [inaudible] on them.
>> Yes.
>> If you ride the Metro, there's things
in the metro right now.
>> What about the commercial?
I heard a commercial.
>> That's right.
We've got radio ads going on the KISS FM and other stations.
We also have a lot of social media stuff.
>> Facebook.
>> Facebook, Google Ads is going on right now.
So we're investing to try to attract students.
Now we haven't had to do that for some years
and now we're in that business.
So there's additional costs associated with that.
>> Is there a number we're expecting to get as a result
of spending X amount of dollars?
So by spending this amount,
we expect to get these additional students.
>> You know, I wish I could say yes.
A, I'm not sure if there is or there isn't but...
>> Let me speak to that a little.
>> Thanks Dan.
>> [Inaudible] you've got.
All of the advertisements direct students
to a particular web address to register.
>> Yes.
>> And so [inaudible] office can track the number of students
that are going through and registering.
So in terms of a certain dollar amount,
you know [inaudible] goes into do they register for courses,
does it generate FTES?
But he is able to assess the effectiveness
of the [inaudible].
>> Okay but before -- when they came
up with the idea, "Hey let's do this."
[Inaudible] idea, if we do this, if we spend X amount of dollars,
we probably might get X amount of students?
[Inaudible]
>> Well I don't know if -- I don't want to be unfair.
I don't know [inaudible] or not.
I think it was the general sense that you have to advertise
and market and you have to get yourselves [inaudible].
>> At least we capture with this by tracking we can
at least know what we got.
>> We hope so and if we didn't, if it's not working then we --
but again, you don't know
if that bus impression plugs something in here
and it resulted in something down the road.
All advertising is kind of that way.
You just -- you know it's hard
to know sometimes unless you do focus groups and things.
>> And it's my understanding
that we have not been actively marketing and we haven't
for many, many years because of you know people just love
to come to ***.
And now because of now workload reduction restoration
and we've established our baseline to get
that required funding, we have to really focus on marketing.
>> And if we market -- you know if we [inaudible] courses
that students need and we market it --
I think I saw something again,
we are ranked among the Top 10 community colleges in California
in something that came out yesterday.
We continue to have you know a great reputation
as a transfer institution, as a degree institution,
as a you know -- and 60 plus percent --
63 plus percent of our institutions come from --
of our students come from outside of the district anyway.
So that's why the radio advertising kind
of made some sense because people come to us if they can.
>> How much was that?
>> Sixty-three percent.
>> Wow.
>> I'll just add one thing [inaudible]
to say that's [inaudible] compares to Santa Monica
with annual marketing budget of a million dollars.
>> And we don't.
>> Yes.
>> We don't.
>> I've seen their ads for Santa Monica College.
They're [inaudible].
>> Yes, well it always tweaks me when a bus drives
by with a Santa Monica ad [inaudible] front door.
But anyway, okay.
Then HR professional development.
There's 2 types of human --
of professional development activity going on right now.
The faculty have used and are beginning to use even more
of our student access and success initiative funding
to create what they call the Academy
for Professional Learning: APL or Apple for short.
So you're -- much of the faculty and the --
much of the [inaudible] training,
particularly faculty training is being done
by APL this summer for example.
If you look at our educational master plan,
a big chunk of that actually speaks to professional learning,
professional development.
So the Academy of Professional Learning is really going to be
about a body that basically delivers on that promise.
However, HR does a lot of --
or should be doing more professional development
in the areas of compliance, whether it's OSHA compliance,
whether it's *** harassment training compliance,
whether it's other...
>> Diversity?
>> Diversity.
And diversity and all that kind of stuff.
>> Mandated training.
>> Mandated training.
So we need to consider providing them a little more resources
to be able to do that.
And then finally, the Student Access and Success Initiative
which has been -- which the self-study will be very grateful
that we did because much of the educational master plan goals
that we talked about are being helped along by many
of the Student Access and Success Initiative projects
which also funded things you know like a lot of our labs
on campus, a lot of our activities and things like that.
So we'll have to consider that.
So this is a list of 6 critical needs assuming we have monies
that we can spend after we're done with our fixed expenses.
Okay? So right now we will hit a budget
that is balanced using available dollars
to cover all fixed expenses.
Beyond that, we hope to have a pot of money
that we can spend on other things.
Those other things are some of the things
that we'll talk about at this table.
There are things that will be talked
about at the collective bargaining tables.
Okay? We're not -- you know
because there are negotiations going
on in collective bargaining circles that may draw
down on funds but those funds would then be part
of the fixed expenses.
So whatever's left, we can talk about.
And hour and a half later, he finally shuts up.
>> A lot to say.
>> Yes. So at this point, we can take some time to think
about additional critical needs or we can set a date
for the next meeting and at the next meeting,
with all this stuff behind us, we can talk real numbers,
the numbers that we have,
we can talk about what available dollars we might have
as a result of that and we can develop our critical needs list.
So we can spend a few minutes now
or we can do whatever the body wants to do at this point.
>> I think it might be nice
to have a little time to think about it.
I'm sure we could share [inaudible].
>> I'd like to say something though.
>> Oh sure.
>> Thanks [inaudible].
>> The fact finding report showed some comparative salary
data with our 8 colleges.
And even given everything
that the college was estimating putting on the table,
the faculty at PCC were among 8 colleges.
So we started a given expected increase
as we were still Number 8.
And I am guessing that we are not alone on this campus
in having borne the brunt of the fiscal crisis.
So I believe that before we
as a college community write a new budget,
we need some honest salary comparison data
with fiscally comparable districts
in fiscally comparable areas to put the faculty
and the staff right before we continue to have fantasy things.
I think it's a critical need because I want to tell you,
the hiring pools were dismal this time.
And I don't believe that we are going
to continue getting the type of faculty we need in order
to continue with PCC [inaudible].
>> Well I'm sorry.
I'll wait till this discussion's over but I have another topic.
>> Okay, I'm not comfortable in responding to that other
than accepting and hearing your message because again,
this is a shared governance consultative [inaudible].
You know what you're referencing is a negotiation item...
>> No, I'm not.
I'm talking about fact finding.
The districts documents at fact finding.
So it's a fact document provided by the district.
>> Right so -- but again what happens with that,
where that all goes is still in process in other places.
I don't think there's anything that this body is going to do
to impact that one way or the other.
There -- I mean I think as an individual, as an FA,
as a group, anybody around this table can write whatever they
want and say what they need to say and communicate it
to the board and to others, but I don't think
that we would take this up as a topic per se.
>> I don't want to discuss the budget
and the needs for the budget.
>> Yes but as I tried to state a couple of minutes ago,
in the fixed expense category will be whatever the salaries
and benefit expenses are.
So they'll be plugged in above the line
so to speak in fixed expense.
So in terms of what you just referenced...
>> That would go there.
>> ...presumably that would be a part
of that conversation and debated there.
That's not part of the "what's left over" for us to talk about.
>> In other words, if I can add to it, as part of the budget,
whatever that outcome was, it automatically gets factored
into that fixed line on the budget.
>> Right, before we get to the --
to what we would be allocated.
>> Yes, so it's a bargaining conversation rather
than a budget conversation.
>> The same topic John [inaudible].
>> It's a different topic but it's
under the critical needs category.
>> Okay, do you want to defer to John or do you want to go first?
>> You go first.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. Well thank you.
So there was talk when the Prop 30 revenue started coming
in of I guess putting money toward [inaudible] fuel center
simply because there'd been so many different requests.
There was a Woman's Resource Center request.
There's been now a Dream Center request.
I'm wondering if that would be considered
under the critical needs category?
>> We will add it as one of those items to consider, sure.
Cross Cultural Center.
And I do recall those conversations.
>> Thank you.
>> Bob at this point, because we're talking
about critical needs and driving FTE growth,
I think it is appropriate to bring
up winter intercession again.
If we added winter intercession, that would give us that more --
that window to squeeze in more FTE
and will give 1 more registration period for students
to sign up for classes.
If you recall, you were here I think when we did go
to a compressed calendar and one
of the strong points was we were competing with the
for profit schools who told students,
"You can sign up anytime.
There's no registration period."
We wanted to have 4 different registration periods
that allow students to say, "Okay,
whatever your schedule is, one more chance to get in here."
So if we are trying to drive out that FTE, I think we really want
to reconsider winter intercession.
>> Okay, again because that whole topic -- I hear you.
I understood what you said,
but again because that whole topic is you know is being
discussed in other forums, we need to leave it at that.
But I heard what you said.
>> Okay.
>> John? Thank you.
>> You have been mentioning that credit FTES has been lifted
so we want to increase our credit FTES.
Is that true with non-credit FTES as well?
>> You know it's -- Ophelia's left
but I think the answer's generally no
because the whole non-credit thing is being looked
at statewide right now.
So I can't say definitively no but I'm pretty sure not really.
Yes. And also there are not
that many community college districts actually have
non-credit programs because actually of the 72 districts,
I don't think there's more than 10 or 12 that have [inaudible].
Because usually the K12 districts have carried
that mantle most of the time.
The big ones are San Francisco, San Diego,
I think it's North Orange County, PCC is one of them.
>> Santa Monica?
>> No, they don't do non-credit.
What's the district -- is it the one -- Peralta.
Peralta is the other one.
>> And we are almost always over [inaudible].
>> Yes. But the -- it's not a big cap to begin with.
>> Okay.
>> We probably could generate more if we [inaudible].
That's why we're interested
in this regional consortia idea frankly.
We -- there's probably more we can do there.
>> Are non-credit and fee based the same thing
or are those 2 different [inaudible]?
>> Different.
Non-credit is that 26 hundred
and 32 hundred per FTES we talked about.
The enhanced is 32 hundred.
The non-enhanced is 26.
These are round numbers.
Fee is the PCC extension program
that Elaine Chapman [phonetic] runs.
And this is like any kind of a --
like UCLA extension kind of program.
And that generates a certain amount of revenue.
And every year we're trying to grow that.
>> And that pays for itself.
>> In terms of profit.
Okay? Some years the profit is higher than other years.
It's been tough for them to pass 3 years because of the economy.
But hopefully now [inaudible].
The other thing that we're trying to get off the ground
under [inaudible] leadership
and Elaine's leadership is contract education.
The whole idea of growing and you're working with a company
and doing a very specified type
of you know -- we build the widget.
We don't need to know all the reasons why --
you know how you got to building the widget.
We just wanted to teach these guys how to teach this widget.
And so there's contract education programs
and we're trying to build that out as well.
And then we're still trying to grow international.
In fact we will be growing international.
That's a big goal.
Yes sir?
>> We're all interested in international.
We've talked once about purchasing property for dorms.
Is there anything being done on that,
like the Davis property or the [inaudible]?
>> In a nutshell, there actually are developers
that have bought the [inaudible] property and we are
in conversations with them about getting them
to fund the construction of some international student housings.
And we're basically trying to convince them.
And I think they're beginning to hear us that when you look
at CalTech, when you look at PCC, when you look
at [inaudible], when you look at Pacific Oaks, when you look
at Culinary Arts Design, you look for the art center,
there's all these programs lure international students
and they all have the same problem.
Where to house these students?
So by having an international housing complex that you know 2
or more of these institutions could you know could share,
we could pretty much guarantee residency: long term residency.
The [inaudible] developer's trying to put a hotel
up over here and on the [inaudible] parking north,
they want to put up this 5 or 6 story high end hotel over here.
And it's other stuff going on.
So we're trying is what --
but we really cannot afford to build it ourselves.
We just can't.
Yes?
>> Yes. I just wanted to add
since that was a very interesting topic,
for student dorms, I believe the association seems
to be very interested in working together to try
to get both international and regular student dorms together.
It just builds a sense of like collegiality
between the different students and community.
>> Right.
>> Because then they feel
like PCC is basically their second home.
>> Absolutely.
Yes. It's definitely [inaudible].
Yes?
>> Yes, I want to put forth
for your consideration another critical need?
>> I'm sorry.
>> Which is that over the last 2 years faculty
and staff have been working really diligently
in doing a comprehensive reviews of the programs [inaudible].
And as a result of this [inaudible] they identified days
that critical needs were improving their programs.
But the divisions existing operation budgets don't --
often times don't have funds to implement the improvements
that they're identifying they need
to improve the student experience.
And so I would purport to critical need of some sort
of program improvement budget.
>> We call it a program improvement fund.
>> Yes something like that so that [inaudible] release time
for curriculum [inaudible] all of these things
that a program's [inaudible] could be implemented.
>> Okay, very good.
Okay. It's 4:15.
So we've had a few of these critical needs.
We'll come together again.
We need a date in July.
>> I was trying to get July 25th.
I just wanted to [inaudible]
if everybody's calendars were okay with that?
>> [ Inaudible response ]
>> That's fine.
We can do it [inaudible] because no one's here in July...
>> Right.
>> ...or on a Thursday in July.
Because that would leave us with the 25th or the 18th of July?
>> Check your calendar.
>> Eighteen?
>> When was the next report for --
from the state come out where we would have better numbers?
>> Well...
>> Okay, we'll try for the 18th.
>> We don't know.
We don't really have that answer.
I think that it would be more efficient for us to meet
in the latter part of July than earlier in July.
>> We're closing the books [inaudible].
>> Because of our closing the books primarily.
>> Okay.
>> So other than John and I know John you hate
to miss a meeting...
>> No, I can send a rep.
>> We'll make it the 25th, yes.
>> So 2:30 on the 25th.
Will that work [inaudible]?
>> Yes.
>> Is it possible that it be earlier than 2:30?
>> Want to try 1:30?
How much earlier?
I mean I know people teach and other things.
[ Inaudible discussion ]
>> So you guys want to try 12:30?
>> I'm good with 12:30.
>> Is that -- 12:30?
>> I'm just asking a question.
When's the first week of summer school start?
>> [Inaudible] started this week.
>> It started the 24th.
>> But there's no second summer right?
>> Correct.
>> I'm just as confused as every other student here.
>> Don't get us started.
>> Sorry.
>> Don't get us started.
>> It's an inappropriate question.
>> Sorry. No, I'm not going to apologize
for an inappropriate question.
>> Okay so, I think I heard 12:30 will work for folks?
>> Yes.
>> So 12:30 on the 25th.
>> Okay is there a college council meeting
that day [inaudible]?
>> I don't have it on here.
Do I have it here?
I don't have it [inaudible].
No I do have a college council meeting.
You're right.
There is one at 10 o'clock.
From 10 to 11:30 that day.
>> Oh my God.
>> Okay, I want to thank everybody for your patience
and I hope it was somewhat informative
and we'll [inaudible].