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UYGUR: Joining me now is Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy. He`s the chairman of the Appropriations
Subcommittee on the Department of State for Operations and Related Programs which oversees
American aid to Egypt which is being credibly relevant right now.
Senator Leahy, thank you for joining us. We really appreciate it.
SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY (D), APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: Thank you. It`s good to be with
you.
UYGUR: All right. Now, you called on Hosni Mubarak to step down immediately whereas the
president has called on him to begin the process of stepping down basically. Do you think the
president needs to be clearer on that issue?
LEAHY: No, I think President Obama has been pretty clear. He`s had long conversations
with President Mubarak. Whether you call it immediate or begin the process, either way
we know if he`s going to step down, it`s going to be a very, very short time. Time has run
out. The options that might have been available to President Mubarak three or four years ago
are not there now. It`s unrealistic to think he can wait until elections in September.
It also does not help his position to have people, actually thugs, in the street who
appear to be government-sponsored throwing Molotov cocktails and things like that. That
does not help his position. It actually makes his position worse.
UYGUR: Well, President Obama last night did say that Mubarak does need to begin to step
down, however you interpret that. Apparently, President Mubarak doesn`t agree. And so, is
him sending out here people to -- the pro-Mubarak forces on camels and horses, et cetera, to
beat down the protestors, is that his answer to President Obama saying, basically, no,
I`m not listening?
LEAHY: Oh, I don`t think it`s his answer to President Obama. I think it`s him saying,
I don`t want to leave. And I think it`s an act of desperation.
I know President Mubarak. I think he has a real sense of Egypt as a wonderful, great
country. But nobody should be president for 30 years, and I think he thinks if he tries
some of the things that might have worked in the past, he can stay there.
It`s not going to work this time. It`s just not going to work. The momentum has grown
up too much. And I think the more things like the people on the horseback, the Molotov cocktails
and all, the harder it is for him to be able to leave with any semblance of dignity and
authority. The time has come. Now, whether that time is today, next week, or the week
after, it`s inevitable.
UYGUR: So, Senator, you called for him to step down. So has Senator John Kerry. And
now, Senator John McCain has also joined that call, though he calls it regrettable. Well,
where do we go from here? If Mubarak does not step down, then do you begin to withdraw
aid from Egypt?
LEAHY: We have a lot of aid in the pipeline now. That pipeline would be turned off. There
is nobody, Republican or Democratic in the Senate or and I suspect in the House, that`s
going to vote for an aid package for Egypt under these circumstances.
We have a long tradition after the Camp David accords of maintaining aid to Egypt and to
Israel. That`s not going to continue under these circumstances. We have enough financial
problems in our own country. Aid will not go to Egypt. Aid will continue to Egypt if
you have somebody who`s come in with credibility, who is trying to help the people, trying to
help those who are unemployed, those who are not being fed and somebody who wants to try
to bring a semblance of order so one of their largest cash projects in Egypt -- tourism
-- can come back.
UYGUR: So, Senator Leahy, I want to get a little bit more specific. When would that
pipeline of aid be cut off?
LEAHY: The money that`s in the pipeline right now is controlled by the administration. Congress
will be facing in a matter of weeks or months a new foreign aid bill. But there is no way,
unless credibility has been restored in Egypt, and it will not be credibility with President
Mubarak. There`s no way further aid will go. So you`re really talking about a relatively
short time.
UYGUR: All right, thank you, Senator Pat Leahy of Vermont. We appreciate, of course, his
time.