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David Pakman: Fred Karger's with us. He's the first openly gay Republican presidential
candidate. He has not held elected or public office, but he's worked on nine presidential
campaigns. He's served as a senior consultant for President Ronald Reagan's campaign, George
Bush number one, and Gerald Ford. A pleasure to speak with you, Fred.
Fred Karger: Hey, David, nice to be on your show.
David: You know, on one hand, even being described as the first openly gay Republican candidate
points to I think one of the main issues and main questions I have about an openly gay
Republican candidate, which is that it is the party that inevitably has been known as
the party that opposes marriage equality and gay rights. How and why did you even become
part of the Republican Party, first of all, and how do you feel about the fact that it
is the party associated with being against gay rights?
Karger: Well, you know, that's one of the principle reasons I'm running, because I do
want to try and bring the Republican Party back to its roots. It was the party of Theodore
Roosevelt, who, you know, may be the first progressive Republican president. And, you
know, don't forget, we've gotten some good Republican votes, eight in the U.S. Senate
to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell, 15 in the Congress. So there's hope within the Republican
And I'm not just the first openly gay Republican candidate, I'm the first openly gay candidate
of a major political party in history. And my record on equality is better than President
Obama's.
David: So when you see that one of your... one of your opponents, for example, is a partner
in an anti-gay therapy clinic, something that's been widely debunked as completely bogus,
of course Michele and Marcus Bachmann, and that there's many people in the Republican
Party who support that, they believe anti-gay therapy is legitimate, how could you even
be in the picture? In other words, how could a voter that considers that legitimate say
maybe I'll vote for Fred Karger instead? How could that even happen?
Karger: See, that's why I'm doing this. It's very important that the Republican Party not
be completely lost to the far right, that those of us in the center continue to fight
for our basic beliefs like keeping government out of our lives.
You know, I challenged Marcus Bachmann, Michele's husband, we call him Ladybird Bachmann, to
a debate. You know, I want to talk about his reverse gay therapy. I challenged him on that,
as did Professor... a professor at Iowa State two weeks ago when I was at the Iowa State
Fair, you know, we need to hold these people's feet to the fire, because they should not
and demonize gay people, and they should not try and use reverse therapy on Christian youth.
It's highly dangerous, it's very suspect, you have 27 psychologists in his clinic, and
I've called him out on it, and I will continue to.
David: No, of course, we know that, but I'm just trying to see... you're for... you're
for the government not being overly intrusive in people's lives, but where else are... where
else do you agree with the Republican platform? In other words, what other areas of... where
else do you come together with the standard issues that Republicans would get behind?
Karger: Well, you know, I believe in less government, government out of our lives. I
believe in entrepreneurship, empowerment of people, personal responsibility, tough law
and order. You know, we've coddled criminals, we need to... we need to lock criminals up.
I believe in a strong national defense.
But then, you know, I'm also caring. Government needs to have a role in caring for people
that can't take care of themselves. But we can't have people relying on government, and,
you know, that's why I'm still in the Republican Party.
And again, I want to bring it back to its roots, the party I grew up with, Dwight Eisenhower,
even Richard Nixon, you know, they were not these, you know, social conservatives who
are driving people out of the party. Members have shifted to the Independent rolls. In
New Hampshire, 42% of all voters are Independent, because they've lost the Republican Party.
I want to bring them back. I want to bring younger people into the party and the political
process.
David: Yeah, I'm just, I'm looking through some of your policy stances, and you want
to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, you'd like to legalize and tax marijuana, however,
on the issues where you are conservative, you match Republicans, so I don't understand
in what way you stand out to a potential Republican voter. Independents, yes, I could see how
some independents could get behind you. I find it difficult to believe they'd prefer
you being a Republican than a Democrat or an Independent. I just think that the pro-gay
rights, anti-war, pro-marijuana wing of the Republican Party is pretty darn small.
Karger: You're absolutely right. And I can't argue with that, which is why I'm calling
Fred Karger an independent Republican. Go to my website, www.FredKarger.com, follow
me on Twitter, @FredKarger, you'll see I'm a different kind of Republican. I'm like the
Republican I grew up with, the Republican Party I grew up with, Nelson Rockefeller,
you know, people who were not so hung up on social issues and dividing our country.
I was a maxed-out donor to Hillary Clinton four years ago, which normally would've not
enabled me to run for president this time. But the public is looking for someone who
can get along with Democrats, who can get things done. As you mentioned, I worked for
Ronald Reagan. He had that ability to do just that. When he was sworn in as president, one
of the first things he did was invite Tip O'Neill, the liberal Democratic Speaker of
the House from Massachusetts, to the White House. They forged a friendship, they got
things done, they got along, and that's what I want to return this country to.
David: Yeah, but if the issue of equality and gay rights is as important to you as you've
clearly demonstrated it is, by looking at your career, couldn't you make a bigger impact
by moving to the Democratic Party or by running as an actual independent and pointing out
that there is an entire party, the Republican Party, that is simply not the place for gay
rights and equality? Wouldn't you make a bigger impact that way than by struggling to, you
know, in some cases, not even get into some of the Republican debates, as you're having
so much trouble doing?
Karger: Well, you know, change often comes from within. Certainly a lot of the national
and state and local LGBT organizations are led by Democrats, you know, the members of
the House who are openly gay are all Democrats. You know, we are pretty well-covered on that
base. Where we have our problems are within the Republican Party.
So I want to be that elephant in the room. I want to be... I'm now registering in the
polls, the most recent Harris Interactive poll, I was at 2%. I was tied with Governors
Pawlenty and Huntsman. You know, I'm creeping up.
A lot of progressives like me, they like my stands, you know, in getting out of both wars.
I'm often more progressive than President Obama. I certainly have more enthusiasm and
optimism and hope in this country than he does.
So you know, I think I'm a different kind of candidate. And you can look at the party
platforms, and they do not define the Republican or Democratic Party. The candidates do, the
leaders do, and I want to be this new kind of Republican. I'm bringing it back to the
roots.
David: Well, let me ask you this: let's assume for a second that you are not the Republican
nominee for president. I know it's hard to imagine, we're still a long time to go, but
say that doesn't happen. Would you vote against your own interests? In other words, would
you vote... you're really the only Republican right now who has your particular view on
gay rights. If you are not the Republican nominee, will you vote for... right now, none
of the other Republican nominees support marriage equality and gay rights the way you do, or
would you vote for a Democrat instead?
Karger: Same thing goes for Obama. You know, there's a new equality chart that came out,
I'm at 100%. I'm the only full-equality candidate running, and the first openly gay candidate
of a major party in history. Where's President Obama? He supported gay marriage in 1996,
he's the first person I've ever heard of in America who's gone from supporting gay marriage
to opposing it. You know, he's been very political...
David: But would you vote... but the question... let me restate the key part of that question:
if you were not the Republican nominee, will you definitely vote for one of your fellow
Republican contenders?
Karger: As you prefaced the question, David, I plan on being that Republican nominee. I've
spent 19 months on this. I'm campaigning. If I get in a debate, that's my whole strategy,
and I can catch on, then I can be that nominee.
David: All right. I would ask again, but I can tell I'm not going to get an answer. So
Fred Karger, Republican presidential candidate, thanks so much for joining us.
Karger: Hey, thanks, I'm enjoying it. Happy Labor Day, everyone.
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