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now we've been talking throughout the show by the pivot points we've reached
as a result of been lyons' death
one of the biggest questions as whether torture did or did not work in this
situation know what that means going forward
theoretic senator dianne feinstein chairwoman of the senate intelligence
committee says officers got the necessarily supply-and-demand
without resorting to torture
to the best of our knowledge
based on a look
notification
as a result of harsh interrogation practices
non-event
and donald rumsfeld of all people
also says that waterboarding
then lead to the capture of dialogue
have
there is not knowing the person in the world would be more motivated to saint
helens is came from
enhanced interrogation is but even he says it didn't
got to be clear enough right
nope well of course not still despite all this right wingers are claiming
bushes policies are waterboarding did play a role
serve those who say that we're going to work
the senate restocking the museum we had vital information with directly where as
to where i was running tally interrogation of college economics
through our morning but as usual
rolling again as usual peter cheng when is the ever get it right
of course the g_o_p_ is image of being a party that is indifferent to fax
you make any irony alike as long as you have the bag up with any evidence
just was in the water boarding to himself
and that's what i've seen the newspaper at this point but it wouldn't be
surprising in time
pet program
results for the whole family contributed to
the success of this venture
of course again
completely not true
for the rest of us thus abundantly clear it was not waterboarding or torture
genesis information
so is it possible that there is a good time to reconsider the whole concept of
torture
and whether america should stooped to such despicable tactics
we certainly think it is was very end dollar lethargy senior editor it's late
and uh... she actually one article that there is a lot of clothes once i will
die
and a call off washing their nation methods of terror suspects dali great to
have you here
thank you for having me
alright elk let's talk about what you think of the right moves right now
and why you think is a good time to make those moves waving the president should
be
casting and presentation due when he campaigned to view all along which is
close guantanamo
do away with the great try
do away with military commissions in lieu of article three trials in other
words or restore us to the state of the rule of law
pre nine eleven so if
you agree that nine eleven was not in fact
and egg this tential threat that meant that we can all our legal system the way
and created new ones now is a good time to
in-state at the legal regimes we get away
and say okay this is symbolic and
to ten year period of temporary legal insanity
and let's go back to the way things were and pretend it never happened at all
well that would be going back to how we had america which is
america norquist constitutional we didn't have tore through a relied on to
the world's and we were proud of and that was part of what made us great now
unfortunately the country's change so much since then but the president could
even close one time i think he seems fell into their impervious to fax use
intelligence says no we didn't get it from waterboarding khalid sheik mohammed
apparently gilday entering gave up information
under normal
standard prior practices but you just can't get it through the knuckle heads
in congress when the president to try to close one time and they did a lot of so
how do we proceed going forward
well i think you know be everything we need to be very very careful about who
the sources of this new torture hysteria it's not an accident
at the calls too
re claim the beauty of waterboarding into fall in love yet again with the
idea of torture are coming from the people whose names were on those torture
memos
who were in the room
room when they were debating this with the exception of donald rumsfeld so it's
not an accident but it's time you coming forward and saying hello torture really
working on a map
action if we moran
and i think that not an accident at its peak cheney thing
you know maybe some of the vital information they come from m so i think
we really want to cabin those people and say look
they have a dog in this fight may need to print
that what they did save the country but let's call that a kind of a lunatic
fringe
and move on and i think with the exception of a handful of torture
apologist
who do have a dog in this bike
who do have some stake in the idea in america is a country that abandoned
pigeon eight o'clock conventions and tortures at random
most
right thinking americans to the extent that they think about it all think that
that was an error so i think we really want to just
isolate the folks who are turning this into a referendum on torture
and say
it's not a referendum on torture we know as a factual matter
the torture didn't lead to this information as you pointed out
but completely normative matter we also know we shouldn't torture it doesn't
work it leads to bad information
it leads us to chase falsely itself
racket that handful of people who have a stake in trying to prove otherwise
the rest of the need to move on
and by the way what to say about us when we say yeah we'd like to be like saudi
arabia in syria and all these other countries
that they're due torture lesson when america school st so there's a great
opportunity love and the president all world of credit
on getting deadline i want to do it again a little later in the show but as
far as pivoting here you really think he's going to take the opportunity to do
that pivoting give us a change that he promised during the campaign
well i think we want to be really careful on the issue of torture it's
true
if you fail to live up to his promise on guantanamo his fail to keep its promise
about trying khalid sheik mohammed and the other architect of nine eleven in
new york in a in a
trial in a domestic trap he has it failed us on torture it's really
important to be clear
has gone back to the guidelines in the army field manual we don't torture he
says we don't have black sites so let's do that given credit for the things that
he has done right and i agree with you this is a moment to say push harder push
harder on the things he hasn't been able to fulfill one of them is one time o one
of them is secret trial
one of them is military up commissions in lieu of real child those of the
places we have to push hard and i agree with you this is a moment to pay that
this is a moment to say as a symbolic matter the war on terror and in this
weekend let's go back to america
the way america was let's go back to the america but the rest of the world look
to you as a beacon of the rule of law in galway you're absolutely right given
credit on stopping portraits are but add to your list indefinite detention is
more loose wire tapping
we've got to turn all that around it's it's a big
slate of to do list
but this is the perfect time to do them so dollar live with this late thank you
for joining us i really appreciate it
thank you very much for having me