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I am Debashis and I am working with the government. I am a secretary in the Urban Development
Department in the state of West Bengal. And in the urban sustainability, yeah, I am working
in the area of new townships and new green urban spaces.
Well, the situation is slightly different in various countries and if I can make a broad
classification between the developing countries and the developed countries there is a slight
difference in perception. In the developed countries sustainability is a great issue
because you have already reached where you have to and it’s a question of survival
tomorrow. But perhaps in many of the poorer countries getting across today might be a
problem. So it is going to be important, but we have to make the policymakers understand
that only today’s problem are not the end of the world. You have to think beyond today.
So in my opinion, while it’s automatically coming to the north, to the south also it
will gradually come but it will need a bit of incentivisation.
In my view about the indicators, too much dependence on the indicators, one loses sight
of the goal. Very often it is a ticking off, you know, indicator A achieved, not achieved,
and who is making that tick mark is also important. So, one, you must have good institutions to
see whether these indicators are being compiled and monitored properly. And the other is that
perhaps too many indicator wise monitoring may not be a good idea. In my opinion I would
feel that policy level macro objectives and achievements could be the benchmark and microplanning,
micromanaging may be left best to the city council, the municipalities, the urban local
bodies. Because things are so different that in a way standardised micro indicators will
not be relevant even in the same country across cities.
Yes, very much, high level common ground followed by very good management and follow up of whatever
has been agreed in the high level ground. Cities, even within the same country, within
the same culture are so different from one another. Let’s talk about, let’s talk
about Milan or Rome since we are in Italy at the moment. I mean how can you say that
the realities of this tiny place and realities of some other big place will be the same?
It won’t. So therefore you have to tailor made to individual nuances. You must have
a nuanced kind of approach, coverall, umbrella type thing is certainly not going to help
cities evolve. But basic human issues, basic human issues will always remain the same no
matter where you are. So the focus should be on basic human values and issues so that
intergenerational issues etc. are relevant.
Every city is different, every country is different, but I have also made a point that
the human values are the same. Now how to marry these two extremely divergent areas?
Well, that is where international bodies and international thinking can come in. And they
must agree to some very broad, basic, eight, nine, ten I’m thinking also of the UN Millennium
development goals, something like that. So basic thing that cuts across regions, people
and countries and that needs to evolve. If we think that millennium development goals
are important we may also think that sustainability factors will be relevant in the urban field
and there should be a broad based platform.
Well, it’s been a great thing I think. Pure learning I think is one of what I would count
as my biggest achievement, especially what is happening in China, what is happening in
Germany and what is the World Bank thinking. These have been personally of great use to
me. More likely you see what I have been thinking is that while we have this building certification
programme and the building rules, what about cities and towns? And especially since I’m
involved in making a new township. Now, you know what is an ideal building to make with
all these green factors put in. But how do you make a green township? And that is why
I was instrumental in leading a study with creating green urban spaces. Suppose I gave
you a piece of land and you – I said, “Make a green building,” you can with the existing.
But suppose I gave you let us say 100 acres of land, or 1,000 aces of land and say, “Make
a green township.” How do you do? So this is a very crucial gap that is existing in
the world knowledge and with these indicators I am getting a direction as to what way to
look like. Again, my fundamental question is if I have a flat piece of land and I want
to make an ideal green township, how should I go about? I mean this conference has given
me a lot of thoughts, all these 147 indicators, all of which may not be relevant but in large
do. And I know what that new green township is going to be.
To internationalise this you need to have some kind of a linkage with, for example,
UN bodies or some otherwise to fully internationalise it would be a bit of a problem. Who says it’s
a question that will always come? But it’s a great beginning, it’s a great effort and
I’m so glad to be part of it.