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We are in Nieuwpoort for our visit to Hubert De Ceuninck
regarding the total auction of his breeding pigeons.
Today Günter Prange is here as well
because Hubert and Günter have known each other for over 25 years.
They sit together for a video relating to the auction
to talk about how they met, to tell stories of the past
and to talk about how they were successful with each other's pigeons.
I'll let them do the talking.
It was back in ... 1987.
In 1987. Yes, when we were both in Emsdetten.
I was invited for a forum, just like you. You were my neighbour at that forum.
I had to keep the conversation going; You did not say anything.
No, it was the other way round.
I talked a lot, you did not. That's true.
I introduced myself. I said: “Bert De Ceuninck”
You replied with your characteristic voice: “Günter Prange”
Those were your first words.
Well, that is my name after all.
Yes of course.
You had a pigeon with you that was to be auctioned there.
I bought that pigeon from you. Correct.
That is how it all started.
We both took a look around.
I showed you one of my pigeons, that was the ‘Alte Fahle’.
The Fahle line. Yes, the old Fahle line.
The daughter of one of the pigeons I offered there
was coupled with Ringlose, and they bred Fahlen, the '802'.
The first National... The first National Ace Pigeon.
He belongs to that line. Yes, this is still the old line.
In 1993 we took ten of your pigeons with us to Meppen.
Some of them were real super pigeons, for instance 1st German Ace Pigeon '95.
The ‘402’? Exactly.
His origins are in today's breed? Yes, they still have these origins.
That hen from 1997, ‘Super Tochter 402’,
from the ‘402’, the 1st Nat. Ace Pigeon, was coupled with ‘Sister Branco’,
which was also the dam of the 2nd National Ace Pigeon 2009. Correct?
That is correct.
And the dam of ‘36’?
Yes. I've been looking for that pigeon. I needed more than just the Delbar birds.
I needed some extra reinforcements.
That is why I purchased three pigeons of Gerard Koopman at his auction.
I was successful with each of the three. They were all top class pigeons.
The 'Sister Branco' was particularly special.
As well as the 959, a son of Beatrix ***.
And grandfather of Ringlose?
No, father... Father of Ringlose!
Which was then coupled to the old Delbar line.
This combination gave the Ringlose.
I don't know why but the lines of Janssen and Delbar
If you take a look at their descendants... I don't know why
they pair with other lines so well. I can't explain.
However, I do know that many fanciers have been successful with them, including me!
Me too. In 2006 I purchased two pigeons of Ringlose and '36'
When I coupled the two birds they were closely inbred.
You said that they might breed crippled youngsters.
Amazingly enough there were no crippled pigeons at all.
They bred super class pigeons in 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation.
Their descendants won a lot of prizes. This was unprecedented.
So many first prize winners.
I remember you thinking that pigeon fancying in Germany
was different and a bit easier.
I said: if a Belgian fancier would come over to Germany to play here
he might have to change his mind, and the other way round.
There are good fanciers everywhere.
Then some of my pigeons came to here.
You noticed that the German pigeons are great pigeons too.
I was hesitant. I've seen many visitors from Germany here.
Ringlose, they talked about nothing else. "Do you have Ringlose pigeons?"
What is the Ringlose?
“It's the best breeder in the world!"
I said: “Never heard of it."
I asked them about the Ringlose birds.
"Well, they are good, very good."
That is when I asked Günter if I could buy some Ringlose birds.
I remember you saying: “I thought you'd never ask."
I had a son of Ringlose and a son of '36' in my loft in 2006.
This combination gave me an immediate boost.
You were not convinced at once?
No I wasn't.
So you did not want them right away.
Indeed. I had already bought several pigeons from other
famous German fanciers who had bred great pigeons.
However, it never worked out here. So I hesitated...
You need some luck as well. It's always like that.
Of course. These pigeons have bred great birds, for instance the '402'.
The ‘402’ was also paired with '577' of Koopman, 'Sister Branco'.
You have bred a youngster from that couple, which turned into a stock dam.
Yes. She is now 15 years old and she is as fit and strong as a youngster.
She no longer lays eggs but she is still strong and healthy.
I also have one of 1999, 13 years old and she still lays eggs.
Not all of the eggs are fertilized but she can still lay them.
I had not expected them to fly that far either.
I thought they would be good for the middle distance, 400 to 500 km.
Then I noticed they could cover 600, 700 and even 800 km.
Take for instance 'Bea', the dam of the 1st National 'Mister Allround',
he is an inbred Beatrix daughter.
It was on a very warm day, over 800 km. He won the 1st national with a big lead.
Yes, they are capable of doing that.
They can do a lot. Much more than I thought.
This one was born in Germany in 1997. His sire comes from your loft.
The 402 was ace *** in Germany. His dam was an original Gerard Koopman.
I guess it was from 'Sister Branco'? Indeed, 'Sister Branco'.
So I gave you a top class pigeon. Thanks a lot! - My pleasure.
This pigeon has bred some outstanding youngsters. Amazing!
She can be found in many of my birds.
‘Super Daughter 402’.
She got that name later on because she was such a good breeder.
Super Daughter: the name says it all.
It is still a top class bird today. Yes, she still looks great.
16 years old and still a fine bird.
When you take it in your hands it feels as if she is 6 or 7 years old.
Still full of energy, despite its age. Every pigeon I have bred out if was good.
She is old now. She still wants to but she can no longer do it.
That is true.
Günter, you are very famous in Germany and abroad.
People who visit me always ask me if I have seen Günter.
Then I tell them you were here.
“He was here? For how long?" "Two days", I said.
Two days? That is impossible!
True. Well you're really famous in Germany. It's amazing.
I remember we were in Kassel or Dortmund once and everybody visited my stand.
“Have you seen Günter yet? Is he coming?" "I don't know, it's possible."
Els said: "Look there he is!" You were the star for all fanciers.
Well, I do not like that. That is why I do not often go to exhibitions anymore.
You have achieved a lot. Well I also want some privacy in my life.
I regret that you have not won more German National Championships.
However, you do not want that? No, not at all.
You get setbacks, people talk behind your back, etc.
I don't bother with that anymore, I do not want to experience that.
Well, I am really glad that you still offer me your pigeons.
I remember the pigeon theft in 1987. You were very disappointed.
In 1997?
Right, it was 1997.
I remember you saying: if our sport goes on like that
I will quit pigeon racing. Well, I wanted to stop.
I was determined then. I stopped breeding pigeons at once.
Then I talked to the mother of Gerard Koopman. She told me
that I should not quit. "You cannot do that!"
We had a long conversation and on my way home I thought: she is right.
I thought I had convinced you to stay. We often talked on the telephone.
That is true but it was the mother of Koopman who has been decisive.
If you know Koopman's mother... She is a great person.
Great.
She told me not to quit. I had to go on...
“You have to go on.” She kept on saying that to me.
When I was driving home from New Amsterdam I thought to myself:
Maybe she is right.
I gave it some thought and eventually...
Well, what do you think?
If is this is the dam of the first national
she is undoubtedly a great hen. There is not much to be added.
I think she feels very good.
Not only is she the dam of the first national Montauban,
she has bred several other top class pigeons as well.
For instance 'Raket' and '22'. They are great descendants as well.
She has some of the same lines as Ringlose, hasn't she?
An inbred Beatrix *** of Koopman.
She has a nice wing. A great overall appearance.
It proves that a hen should look like a hen. That's what I think.
It should not be too stout.
Exactly. She is perfect.
I prefer hens that are a bit smaller.
Sometimes I get visitors who think that my pigeons are too small.
Some fanciers did purchase pigeons
but eventually they found them to be too small and they got rid of them.
They were idiots, take it from me.
That is nonsense.
I also think that pigeon racing is evolving towards
smaller pigeons rather than bigger pigeons.
Yes, pigeons used to be bigger.
I hit the jackpot with these two birds. This one is from 2006, a son of '36'.
And that one is a son of Ringlose.
A youngster of this pigeon coupled with a youngster of that pigeon:
Highly inbred strains.
But they have bred a whole lot of excellent pigeons.
Up to second, third and fourth generation.
A lot of 1st prize winners and ace pigeons.
This one is still very fit.
This Ringlose is heavily inbred.
Yes, a Ringlose coupled to his own daughter.
The ‘Daughter 802’, a first National Ace Pigeon.
Yes, it has the same eye. This is a good one.
Top class!
This one stems from 'Son 36'. '36' is also a son Ringlose x Sister Branco.
He was coupled with a daughter Gandor of Koopman.
The 05-30. That's right, the 05-30.
Yes, they have bred great birds.
Heavily inbred and yet, such good breeders...
The dam has a lot of Delbar origins.
Very heavily inbred.
Indeed but in fact it is only inbred on paper.
We have experienced a lot in all those years.
We have had great pigeons and we have lost great pigeons...
but friendship is what matters the most.