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you may remember the earlier this month that I highlighted a man who's been under
siege by the u_s_ government for blowing the whistle on torture
I'm referring to a former CIA analyst and senior investigator for the senate
foreign relations committee
John Kiriakou
and while he isn't the only whistleblower charge with this administration but
his stories particularly unique
see he actually left his position at the CIA in two thousand
three years later when waterboarding was
becoming a point of a contention
he was referred to the media circus as a commentor
mentioned disclose the name of the culvert CIA officer
to freelance reporter simply wanting to help the journalists find a good source
but little did he know
that's the information would cost him his career
just last week
he was sentence to two and a half years in prison
as part of a plea deal
and he now stands is the first CIA officer to be convicted under the
espionage act
extremely archaic piece of world war one legislation
now because of the legal proceedings Kiriakou has been silenced unable to
speak to the media
Not any more
in fact he's here right now to talk to me that his personal case, torture
and the crusade against whistle-blowers in this country, John thank you so much
for coming in, Thanks so much for having me
so, John you're the CIA official to go to jail,
and not for torturing people
simply for exposing torture i mean how does it feel for your life to be sacrificed
to make an example of the same government that you dedicated your life to.
i've come to realize that this case is so much
bigger than than I am
for myself I feel
bad that i'm going to prison it makes me sad i'm gonna miss my family it's gonna
be tough on them
it's so much more important
for issues of free speech and uh... freedom of association
it's so much more important for freedom of
of the press
and more important
of the press
uh... and i just hope that
there's enough outrage out there
but once I go to prison
that uh... that'd help someone in the future to uh... stand up to the justice
they help someone in the future
to uh... stand up to the justice department did stand up to these
infringements on ur civil liberties
I do too
John ah... I know you divulge the name I mean
at i can help but think, you have been in the media supporting
waterboarding
would this happening to you. I've always thought that if i had actually tortured someone
i would be free today
unbelievable I mean you do think that the the real people who oversaw
codified tortured john you Alberto gonzalez's, donald rumsfeld shouldn't
they be the one sitting in prison John, they should be the ones in there there
are others even
put aside the the people who actually did day-to-day torture
what about the people who conceived of the policy who implemented the policy
where the attorneys that papered over it with
with crazed legal analysis
or the man who uh... uh...
who destroyed evidence of the torture in the tapes
uh... he's enjoying a book tour right now and he's going around washington
giving speeches on how great torture is. None of them
are in prison and none of them whatever be prosecuted for the crimes that
they've committed
uh... it's
a truly astounding i mean you're representing a two-tier justice system
on the wrong side out and really showing the lawlessness,that the other impunity that
the lawlessness the energy to get the regal
tortures war criminals have retired element on the world selling books
talking about their their careers on
something that's particularly disturbing is that the prosecution along with
multiple other people have said
that your punishments not harsh enough
right i mean
it's not surprising in it
crash they say that you deserve more jail time
yes in
in october two thousand twelve when i accepted
depleted violating the intelligence identities protection act
the judge called thirty months fair and appropriate uh... just a couple of
months later on friday
she said that uh... it was dot quote we two lights unquote
and that if she had not had her hands tied by this plea deal that she would
have given me ten years uh... i don't know what changed between october in
january other than the fact that
the courtroom in january was full of reporters and she may have wanted to
appear top confirms reporters
in national security cancers
v prosecutors are allowed to happen ex parte a communication
with the judge that's a communication to which the defense and the defense
attorneys are not pretty
they had such a communication just before i was formally sentenced
the prosecutors also gave the judge the so-called victim impact statements
i have no idea what was in that impact statement because i wasn't permitted to
see it
but whatever it was
and whatever uh... the prosecutors told the judge
uh... they somehow convinced to go on the record as saying that uh... i
deserve to ten years in prison so you had no mazlin tent i mean i don't
understand
i had no knowledge that
not only
did the on there at the intelligence activities protection act
volunteered to serve as an expert witness for my defense
previous judicial rulings
indicating that intent was the crux of the law
but the government had to prove that i had the intent to harm the national
security the judge dismissed those precedents
and should have known better
let's go back to the beginning
i've john and i don't know if you can speak on this if you cancel cable what
was the trigger for you to even speak out in the first is did you see
something that kind of
moved you
it all started for me in two thousand two and had been the chief of
counter-terrorism operations for the c_i_a_ in pakistan
i returned to headquarters early in the summer of two thousand two
and a senior officer approached me to ask if i was interested in being trained
in so-called enhanced interrogation techniques
torture techniques ike told him that i had a moral problem with them
i didn't want to be associated with the program and i moved on to a different
job
so in two thousand seven
or by two thousand seven human rights watch an amnesty international on the
red cross had reported that
but they were credible uh... reports that the c_i_a_ was
was torturing prisoners
and president bush at the time said
we don't torture we're not engaging torture and if anyone is being tortured
it's because of rogue c_i_a_ officers
well that just was simply not true
marceau
i want on a_b_c_ news
to talk about the capture of opposite data
the uh... the reporter asked me if opposite data have been torture i said
he had
and i said
that it was torture
and that it was official u_s_ government policy
the very next day
the c_i_a_ filed what's called a crimes reported against me
uh... the justice department began investigating the and never stopped
investigating me since december two thousand seven
in addition that
i've even been honored by the i_r_s_
every single year since i gave that interview
so just yeah i mean just the chilling effect kind of punishing you in any
sense of the way it's a program of of
uh... harassed absolutely a stop some of the n_ f_ course you know passing about
the status of your grocery offices just like i have a parrot gripe
where they're just like a institutionalize i mean we know that it
was from the top down
you know yeah i just can't help but thinking
of of the portrayal of obama got elected he said he condemns torture
really when you look at the evidence of dr gordon guantanamo bay the continued
practice of rendition exporting portrait a different country solitary confinement
for indefinite detention i mean
didn't want to really in with obama
you know i think it didn't and i'll tell you why it all depends on your
definition of torture
the enhanced interrogation techniques included everything from
from an officer grabbing the prisoners lapels and giving him a shake
up to waterboarding and sleep deprivation and cold cell with ice water
being thrown on you were
putting you into a in a dog cajun keeping their for days at a time
it depends on what the on what the definition of torturous
my guests is that
coercive techniques
uh... have not done that
because the president
formally band torture
there's a and
efforts at least in efforts
to at key to the u_s_ army field manual
but uh... i don't think we know that foreign backed down
absolutely uh...
i can't help but think about yesterday being the forty th anniversary of
watergate com
near the supreme court ruled nixon was not above the law it were hailing
whistleblowers is really bringing down the present united states yes for
resolver lawlessness
we've straight so far johnnie how did we get from
where we are prosecuting the criminal janelle prosecuting the messenger
business at
how we've had this incremental loss in our civil liberties
uh... all these years accelerated of course after nine eleven
and there's been no public outrage
ten years ago
i think americans would have been flabbergasted to know that
an essay that was intercepting their telephone calls in their emails without
a warrant
and now
nobody seems to really care
i think people would have been objects
ten years ago
if we were
vapor rising
teenage american citizens
with predator drones
american citizens who have never been accused of a crime who have never had a
day in court who have never uh... i had the benefit to have uh...
of uh...
judicial the judicial process
firing drilling missiles at the men and uh... again killing him instantly
and there's no regent street
i'd just don't understand how americans have accepted this loss of civil
liberties
without a fight very disappointing i don't either john and i ask that
everyday with why don't people carried of course even that the extra dutiful
fascination
wit and classify and why
who were targeting while you work hard you know i mean all that classified as
that is classic one every things that matter of national security i mean
and we just signed shut down the office i was working to close on time and i did
write yet days after about its elected the first he does that symbolic gesture
worry cited a closed-end days after he gets reelected
closes the office and i what is this a outlet something is in the site to it's
actually crime in the united states
to over classify
and no one has ever ever been charged with committing that crime
and we have about a minute left by irene you hear about so many acts committed
facials exit which was going on but worth talking about over their
experiences i mean what chilling the fact is this really sending
to people like u
from speaking out i think the messages
if you want to write a book saying how great the c_i_a_ is that how great
government policy is
they're going to help you get that book out
the publications review board at the c_i_a_ is the clear quickly
and you're welcome to go in your book tour
but if you could starts
if u
blow the whistle
if you point out
incidents of waste fraud abuse any illegality
report be prepared for a tough road
you can expect
the loss of your friends the loss of your job stability in my case the loss
of my pension
the loss of my head
your life is gonna change dramatically and we all really should be speaking up
john on your the latest on a along morgan's whistleblowers and if we don't
stop this now
where were going to go with the thank you so much for taking time out your
heritage apreciate on crack a former c_i_a_ in the sand whistleblower thank
you
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family room
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going on
let me know