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>> IN NORTH DAKOTA, A TRAIN CARRYING CRUDE OIL DERAILED
AND EXPLODES. IN CANADA, A CRUDE OIL TRAIN
CRASHES INTO A TOWN KILLING 47 PEOPLE.
ANOTHER DERAILING BLOWS UP IN ALABAMA.
THESE ARE ACCIDENTS THAT MANY PEOPLE IN LAMY ARE INVOKING IN
THEIR OPPOSITION TO A PLANNED CRUDE OIL TRANSFER STATION
RECENTLY ANNOUNCED BY PACER TRUCKING OF OKLAHOMA.
GIVEN THAT THE FATE OF AMTRAK'S ROUTE THROUGH LAMY
APPEARS FUZZY AS WELL, SOME ARE LOOKING AT THIS AS AN
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY. OTHERS ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE
IMPACT ON WATER AND THE QUALITY OF LIE, BUT WHETHER
THEY HAVE ANY RECOURSE TO PROTEST IS VERY UNCLEAR.
SO, JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THIS AND OTHER NEWS OF THE
WEEK, WE HAVE LAURA SANCHEZ. SHE IS COE OF NEW MEXICO GREEN
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. RETURNING TO THE LINE TABLE IS
FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE DEDE FELDMAN, STATE SENATOR,
DEDE FELDMAN. I AM SORRY.
DAN IS UP THERE, READY FOR HIS FIST PUMP.
>> PREMATURE EXCITEMENT. >> FORMER REPUBLICAN WHIP,
THAT IS THAT MAN RIGHT THERE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, AND
REGULAR ROB NIKOLEWSKI JOINS US ONES AGAIN AS WELL.
LET ME START WITH YOU, FUN AND GAMES ASIDE, THIS IS A VERY
SERIOUS ISSUE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
WE'RE RIGHT HERE IN THE CROSSHAIRS OF IT.
HERE IN NEW MEXICO YOU DEAL WITH THE ENVIRONMENT A LOT,
LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS RECOURSE ISSUE.
THIS IS A DIFFICULTY. HUGE TOWN MEETING, 275 PEOPLE
IN LAMY, OBVIOUS CONCERN, A WELL 110 FEET AWAY FROM THE
RAILROAD SPUR. WHAT CAN FOLKS DO AT THIS
POINT GIVEN NO ONE CAN REALLY DO ANYTHING?
CAN YOU PULL A LEVER LITERALLY TO MAKE THIS STOP?
>> I THINK THEY ARE DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN.
I HAVE TO COMMEND THEM FOR ORGANIZING AS A TOWN THE WAY
THEY HAVE VERY QUICKLY ON SHORT NOTICE ABOUT THIS.
I THINK ONE OF THE FRUSTRATING THINGS FOR RESIDENTS OF LAMY
AND THE SURROUNDING AREA IS THAT THEY FEEL LIKE THEY
HAVEN'T BEEN HEARD AT ALL, NOBODY HAS GIVEN ANY PUBLIC
NOTICE OR OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT PRIOR TO MAKING THESE
KIND OF DECISIONS. >> IT IS AMAZING TO THINK THAT
A COMPANY IS NOT OBLIGATED TO DO SUCH A THING.
WITH A TOWN, HOW CAN THAT POSSIBLY BE?
>> WELL, IT IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE THIS DOESN'T FALL
UNDER ANY KIND -- WHEN YOU'RE DOING A CROSS STATE INTERSTATE
PROJECT, YOU HAVE FEDERAL LAWS THAT APPLY.
WHEN YOU DO A NEW BUILDING SOMETIMES THERE IS STATE
REGULATIONS OR COUNTY ORDINANCES THAT APPLY.
WE'RE IN A SITUATION HERE WHERE THERE IS EXISTING TRACK
ALREADY AND IT WAS A PRIVATE DEAL WHERE THESE ARRANGEMENTS
WERE MADE AND PRIVATE DEALS AREN'T SUBJECT TO PUBLIC
INPUT. SO YOU HAVE A VERY INTERESTING
SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE A CORPORATION DEALINGS THAT ARE
AFFECTING POTENTIALLY THE PUBLIC.
AND I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF OUTCRY ABOUT THAT.
THE ONLY OTHER THING TO LOOK AT IS PUBLIC NUISANCE TYPE OF
ARGUMENT. >> DEDE GOOD TO SEE YOU,
SENATOR. GLAD TO HAVE YOU BACK.
INTERESTINGLY, WHAT STRUCK ME IN THE STORY, I HAVEN'T BEEN
TO LAMY IN A BIT. I APPRECIATE THE MANNER OF
U.S. 285 IN THAT THIS MAY NOT BE THE RIGHT KIND OF ROAD TO
DEAL WITH ALL THESE TRUCKS RUMBLING IN AND OUT OF LAMY.
WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? >> IT IS A LONG AND WINDY
ROAD, BUT HERE IS A CASE WHERE REGULATION HAS NOT, AT EITHER
THE FEDERAL OR STATE OR COUNTY LEVEL HAS NOT CAUGHT UP WITH
THE TREMENDOUS OIL BOOM THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING IN THE
NORTHERN PLAINS, ESPECIALLY, BUT ALSO IN NEW MEXICO.
SO, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE HERE IS -- IT IS A
REALLY ACTIVE COMMUNITY. THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL IN
GETTING A BAN ON DRILLING IN THAT AREA A COUPLE OF YEARS
AGO. AND, THE RESULT WAS, A LAND
USE ORDINANCE REGARDING OIL AND GAS THAT WAS CONSIDERED TO
BE A MODEL THROUGHOUT THE NATION.
SO, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MORE PUBLIC OFFICIALS
INVOLVED INCLUDING, REPRESENTATIVE LUJAN AND
SENATOR UDALL. SENATOR PETER WORTH IS ALREADY
INVOLVED, THEY ARE LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVES, BECAUSE AS YOU
SAY IT IS A PRIVATE DEAL, BUT THERE IS A HUGE PUBLIC RISK TO
THE WATER SUPPLY AS WELL AS TO THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE ALONG
285. >> SURE.
DAN, GOOD TO SEE YOU. RESIDENTS, I WOULD THINK, IF
YOU'RE AWARE OF THE READING, JUST WHAT IS GOING ON ACROSS
THE COUNTRY AND NORTH AMERICA, THERE IS CAUSE FOR CONCERN.
WE HAVE HAD A HUGE UPTICK IN SPILLS AND DERAILMENT.
A LOT OF RAIL IS NOT ABLE TO HANDLE THIS KIND OF WEIGHT.
DO WE HAVE TO HAVE A DISASTER TO HAVE MOVEMENT OR IS
REGULATION THE ANSWER? >> YOU KNOW, I MEAN, GENE, YOU
TOSSED THE SOFTBALL OUT TO ME, DO I THINK REGULATION IS THE
ANSWER. YOU KNOW MY ANSWER IS NO.
I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT THAT REGULATION IS THE ANSWER.
I THINK THAT THE DERAILMENT -- >> WHEN IS REGULATION
APPROPRIATE; WHEN THERE IS LIVES AT STAKE?
>> WELL, IT IS A GOOD QUESTION.
I THINK THAT FIRST OF ALL WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE AMOUNT
OF TRAIN ACCIDENTS, DERAILMENTS, THINGS THAT ARE
HAPPENING, IT IS NOT THIS HUGE SPIKE THAT PEOPLE ARE MAKING
IT OUT TO BE. THIS STUFF HAS HAPPENED FOR
YEARS. IT IS PART OF WHAT HAPPENS
WHEN YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, THIS TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY.
AIRPLANES, PLANES CRASH, TRAINS CRASH, THAT HAPPENS.
THAT IS WHY THEY ARE CALLED ACCIDENTS.
YOU KNOW, I THINK LAURA MADE A GREAT POINT, YOU KNOW, TO YOUR
POINT ABOUT WHAT IS REGULATION REQUIRED, WHEN THERE IS TWO
PRIVATE PEOPLE MAKING A DEAL, THE GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE
INVOLVED. THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T HAVE A
RIGHT TO BE INVOLVED. >> ISN'T IT THEIR ROLE, THEY
ARE BROKER IN THE MIDDLE, SOMEBODY HAS TO LOOK OUT FOR
PUBLIC SAFETY. >> THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT
HONEST. THAT IS WHERE YOU AND I
DISAGREE. YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS
THIS THIRD PERSON OUT THERE THAT IS AN HONEST BROKER.
THE GOVERNMENT IS LOOKING OUT FOR SPECIAL INTERESTS AND
WHOEVER IS PAYING THEM THE MOST TO LOOK OUT FOR IT.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU HAVE PRIVATE SECTOR FOLKS
LOOKING FOR SOMETHING, THEY HAVE MADE A DEAL.
I'LL END BY SAYING, IT IS INTERESTING, IT IS ALWAYS IN
SANTA FE AREA AND I AM SURE YOU'LL GET LOTS OF CALLS ABOUT
THIS, AS THEY ARE DRIVING AROUND IN THEIR RANGE ROVERS
AND LAND ROVERS THEY WANT CHEAP GAS THEY JUST DON'T WANT
IT IN THEIR BACKWARD. >> AT WHAT COST?
IS WORRY ENOUGH? IS NOT WORRY ENOUGH TO
REGULATE SOMETHING? I WOULD BE HIGHLY CONCERNED IF
I WAS LIVING IN LAMY. >> I WOULD BE TOO.
I MEAN, I LIVE IN ELDORADO, JUST AROUND THE CORNER FROM
LAMY SO I HAVE BEEN THERE A NUMBER OF TIMES AND IT IS VERY
CLOSE, WHERE THIS TRANSFER STATION WOULD BE, WOULD BE
VERY CLOSE TO -- -- THERE IS BAR THERE.
>> LOTS OF DRUNK DRIVERS. >> YEAH, RIGHT.
BUT IT SEEMS TO ME, MAYBE A SOLUTION TO THIS WOULD BE
MAYBE A PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP.
BECAUSE, I THINK THAT IT IS MORE THAN JUST NOT MY BACK
YARD ISSUE ALTHOUGH THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF THAT.
THAT AREA, THAT RAIL STRIP GOES THROUGH LAMY, GOES PAST
LAMY, GOES BEYOND LAMY, MAYBE THAT IS WHERE YOU COULD HAVE
THIS. AND, MAYBE THAT WOULD BE A
SOLUTION THAT -- I MEAN, I KNOW THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE
A FACTION THERE THAT IS NOT GOING TO WANT THIS UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES, EVEN IF IT IS MILES AWAY.
MAYBE YOU CAN GET THE COMPANIES TOGETHER WITH THE
STATE. >> THAT IS MY QUESTION.
YOU KNOW, WHY CAN'T THE COMPANY -- IF GOOD TIMES ARE
SO GOOD, YOU BUILD DOWN THE SPUR A LITTLE BIT FURTHER
SOUTH OR NORTH, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, GET AWAY FROM
POPULATION, BUILD WHAT YOU WANT, BUT MAKE SURE THAT
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO MESS UP -- BECAUSE THERE IS GOING TO BE
ACCIDENTS. AND WE HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR
THAT. THERE ARE GOING TO BE
ACCIDENTS SO, IS THAT REASONABLE?
>> WELL, I THINK IT DEPENDS WHO YOU ASK.
TO ME IT IS REASONABLE BUT I WILL SAY THAT I HAVE SPENT A
LOT OF TIME IN THE PAST FEW YEARS WORKING IN THIS AREA,
GENERALLY NOT WITH OIL AND GAS BUT SPECIFICALLY LOOKING AT
ENVIRONMENTAL RISK AS AN ADDITIONAL FACTOR IN TERMS OF
YOUR OVERALL DEVELOPMENT MODEL.
WE HAVE EXAMPLES IN NEW MEXICO OF DEVELOPERS WHO HAVE BEEN
ABLE TO CAPTURE THAT KIND OF ENVIRONMENTAL RISK PROACTIVELY
AND DONE A LOT MORE STAKEHOLDER INVOLVEMENT AND
DISCUSSIONS WHICH REALLY HAVE HELPED THEM AVOID SOME OF THE
LARGER OUTCRY AND POTENTIAL LITIGATION DOWN THE ROAD.
WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF SUPPORTING AND BEING A PARTNER
EVEN IN TERMS OF OUR GENERAL FUND WITH OIL AND GAS.
AND I THINK OIL AND GAS HAS TO REMEMBER THAT THINGS CHANGE
AND YOU HAVE TO TRY TO BE MORE PROACTIVE.
YOU CAN'T ASSUME THAT A SMALL COMMUNITY LIKE THIS IS GOING
TO JUST RUBBER STAMP SOMETHING.
>> IN A MOMENT WE'RE BACK WITH OUR REPORT FROM THE ROUNDHOUSE
ON THE DEBATE OVER TAPPING THE LAND GRANT PERMANENT FUND TO
PAY FOR MORE EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION PROGRAMS HERE IN NEW
MEXICO.