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it's site is a gentleman
that still welcome to the program
ecru or
sorry we're not having uh... some uh... hurricane post hurricane related
difficulties but thank you for your uh... patients
so at
uh... yes i understand well
uh... you know you know the the world of
of nuclear radio and the market
there's no standing
go ahead sorry
all right so you bring this piece in salon the progress of cases of against
owb bomb up for those people who haven't had an opportunity to see it
laid out uh... what your piece uh... is about
it it
there's two basic argument
one is that barack obama
obama
and this is not necessarily causal
although i think it is
an abrupt obama economic inequality howard
increased
uh... two levels
at a higher mendoza under george bush
and economy that he shapes
uh... more x it is essentially a one that it's about resource extraction
though america it's turning into a patron st
because of key policy
that barack obama
absolute
uh... and this
this publicly work involved
well had to compile this one was to replay
assets held by the wealthy
and the second was to not weekly assets held by the middle class
uh... which is
mocha correctly so the booklet eclipse
and um... so that's the first argument
adept at these
that he's batting captain america
and it was because the proper public policy
the second part of the argument
one should not support for up obama
because one should recognize that the key moments of policy leverage
which is really what we you-know-what
but we should care about at citizens of how our government governs
are not actually always about elections
are increasingly about how to respond two crises
so we should focus
on building networks out people who are intellectually and politically reliable
l actually quickly concert
and crises happen which we just saw one mechanics
uh... to have these networks
jumped out activity and demand action around the policy ideas at the box
so for instance after nine eleven george bush said
so shopping
and there was no response liberals
but neoconservative label to use that moment to change the constitutional
order watchable towards a character
and after the financial crisis
liberals didn't do anything and had a response
and soda bob reuben h
were able to restructure the economy that's great
pollack optical fashion
so we need to recognized that the dynamic
uh... is one of crises
and
that supporting politicians who implement policies that are against our
interests is
a works against that strategy of having reliable political intellectual networks
okay and uh... you know that's amendments
i do want to spend too much time on the first part of the argument because
i mean i think
uh...
clearly
we have uh... continued inequality and in fact coming out of the uh... the
recession to the extent that we have and with that i think is even an arguable
proposition
but to the extent that we have come out of the the recession
uh... it is clear that there were
earth and
they were opportunities for a president obama putting aside the fact that make
knowledge in on some level that he was
obstructed in uh... certain areas they worked clearly certain areas where you
were it was an obstructed
uh... at the very least there was money in tarp uh... which could have gone to
homeowners which could have
maybe not that i mean i don't think it's quite possible to have
made people all hole in terms of
an aggregate equity because we had a a real estate bubble but he's certainly
could have without but mean the money was there he certainly could have
uh... had his administration
direct that more relief directly to homeowners rather than
continually uh... feeling that the banks essentially and in hoping that in you
know i i don't what it's hard to know what exactly what the intent was but we
know at the very least that it was to farm the runways for the banks and i
guess the thinking goes
uh... and hopefully they will
then spread largess uh... too
the uh... the common folk as it were that didn't quite work out that way and
it seems
slightly ridiculous to assume that uh... banks would've operated in that fashion
but um...
so so leaving aside for a moment and there
do you prove my analysis that i mean you'd like to say it's arguable as to
whether or not president obama
his policies have led to a continuation of these income disparities
uh... but i think it's
it's an arguable that there were two other things he could have done which
could have at least lessened
uh... yet so calendar of george bush department every dollar winter huh
top one percent in terms of the income growth of the comedy
undertook under brock obama
that dollar increase in ninety three cents of every dollar
so um... of the in the economic recovery
nearly all the games went to the top one percent
not true under bush lupus maestro under clinton so though going back and but bob
what you have to understand it that
it's with the quality choice
it's not good
he didn't deliver he conceded fighting
and network discretionary choices that he made in his people me
that were important
in terms of cracking but decided it would happen included
not prosecuting any one of wall street
within the crat sleeper car
forcing a fifty-state cattlemen on the foreclosure crisis
explicitly not addressing foreclosure crisis and lying to the public about
foreclosure mitigation program
appointing ben bernanke he
and so what you he and did that
anybody dot to try it out so far
fluently essentially by obama had dot bush started it but obama solidified is
that he has been trying to
acute care nurses
where
if you are a bit certainly economic strata
you have a
facially
obviously per charged political
and property package
and if you are middle class
you have property rights to the extent of powerful want to get them to you
that's why the brother assigning scandal where billions of documents
worst falsified and there were no need to take the front of the court no one
was ever prosecuted
what happened is that bronco bothered transformed our society
into one
wed middle-class doesn't actually have a right except to the extent that the
powerful wanna get dot that's a pretty profound transformation i think we have
to recognize that
uh... transformation
and add an expert at one and that something that brought the bombing
tended to do
uh... and and
and fail cake now that he did this
what is our responsibility for their that kind of
uh... well you could have done more about it
it one of the sky how policy agenda and be enacted
and what now we go
addicted to shape the country club
okay and so and and and we also i think it's also fair to men to do that
the context in which coming out of recession it is not necessarily in there
definitely there were uh... policy choices
it is
uh...
not and like you saved is not necessarily a a causal connection here
because we are coming out of
he may eight massive financial crisis
and i think uh... certainly the the income growth stuff could have been
uh... in some way mitigated however
however uh... it's not necessarily cause a but i think there's a definitely a
good argument there so no i don't i don't that i think or started
authorizing allocation
somebody argument
they know it's not causal
in fact
the way that you
colorado burst over a recession
highly determinative of the shape of the trumpet the country ever comes out of a
recession
that's right apology better implemented and so what happened in two thousand
acres proper bomber
you know it started
especially took office during the transition or slightly before in terms
of his legislative priorities
and the country's banking system economy was filed everybody looked at him and
said ha
how are we gonna come out of this what did the shape
of our economy
rock above its head we are going to fill out the auto industry we're going to go
up the banks we're going to do a whole series i think some of which were
good like that bailouts of the auto industry i think those were smart
but there were important politics which is that were made
it dictated the shape of the recovery and franklin delano roosevelt faced with
a similar situation make different choices
and so the shape of the of the recovery was far more egalitarian
it took out how you deal with
acceptable melted yet really doesn't matter and brock obama chose to deal
with it in certain ways
and f_d_r_ chose to deal with it in different ways
anti-gay bigot absolutely a hundred percent carpal
and so it is proper bomber which is why he bragging about the auto parts
right now i mean i'm just going by what you had said at the beginning in this
interview which was that it's not necessarily consul but but
but be that as it may ending
uh... if you wanna met argued that it's that if there's a one dollar campaign
networking argument from people
the response to peace
has been
old isn't necessarily cause all that i was trying to lay out
that i'm trying to lay out the argument clearly and some of the
some of the points that the indisputable back to the inequality has increased
my argument about cop-out
that's alright with enough and uh... and and so its d the second part uh... the
argument is that
we need to formally
or a progressive
uh... or a better ag s progressive response
in uh... in anticipation
of the next crisis because those are obviously the the window the those
represent the greatest
windows for opportunity for uh... genuine
change that uh... wid
egalitarian
progressive change that we seek
uh...
and in here in in into a large extent
i'd very much uh... agree with that i'm not sure i have any uh... issue with
that
the the real question is
is to what extent
uh...
voting for a third party and let's just
focus this conversation in the context of swing states because
uh... i think uh...
it's it's pretty clear
and this is actually say this is a conversation that we've had on this
program for
months and months and months
uh... it is
really clear uh... that uh...
i think that if your indicates a fleet blue state
um... there's much more at latitude in the implications of your boat they're
are
are frankly uh... not as as relevant so let's now it is to in in a swing state
what what is to be gained by voting for a third party
uh... in
in the context of the of this wednesday
well making
i think the argument
from by perspective is that
you're taking a big bris with either a bomber robbed
and under obama they think that the best rate that's black agenda report
you've got the lesser of two evils he's just more effective
in very good at
act at princeton cutting social security
uh... which is why he would be able to
at the payroll tax
you fund on social security
uh... and without and uh... opposition from democrats
and i don't think that
the uh... a republican could have done that
equity argument forearm
herb permit startling to get their army is pretty obvious
if you would be a very
bad conservative president that he could attack iran that he could do some very
terrible things
even if you have the relatively moderate track record and that's a cute kids
uh... and he but he turned back to break
scary people
you know it's impossible to know
what pick out it would actually do in office
uh... i'll look at him and i think he's a republican establishment guy hato
you know who knows
the argument with rock obama
uh... that he had already indicated what he is going to do
and he had said many times if you want to drill for more although
and that he wants that
some cut entitlement stoppard ilka jumping their to cut entitlement
you want to go after what is ever what it left opinion kills
and the court the reason that one should should feel uncomfortable about that
because brock obama as
shown
use a very effective excluding
democrats
and uh... wearing the public actually
the president the president
but you know we've had as much credence uh... of of action
do as much damage jokingly funny and i think that the public will be more
aroused
against that ronnie then they will let's talk about now whether that will produce
better quality of the whole i don't know
armor i'm not sure yet
their bermuda brock obama would be aware spread
but i do think that it's important and this is why one should not support for
iraq obama i do think it's important for us to carry at the public we did not
accept the policy-making of either
party at this point and out either frankly
bachelorette party but of rock obama
or mit romney we think that both of them are malevolent it is important say that
department said it would be jewel it was important for that
as a at the fed of
people who who belong to institution membership organization though
that'd be only thing that will constraining cottage doing terrible
things go
now right now i want to work backwards here because
um... hai
i don't view voting
uh...
it pretty chilly in the context of
on a letter it in those elections in a swing state
um... as a as a mood of expression
um... i think that it has real world implications is very in my mind it's a
very pragmatic act
so uh...
the the applications
i mean you you stated in the piece that you don't think any of these third party
uh... candidates have a chance to win agree with that assessment
uh... so
affectively
when you're saying vote for a third party
uh... and we're
you're talking to progressives right
uh... you're basically saying
for those of you are contemplating voting for obama
actual impact
in terms of the election is
you should
basically give us half vote to ron i mean is that a affair do you think
that's just a fair assessment of
of that called the implications of that call
no i don't i think that but nobody uh... contrato
and um... i don't think that if you you know there's a lot of people who might
choose not to vote
it did he kill turned up a third party might not be budget not letting you know
how to bring people don't put every
alampi presidential election cycle
but closer to think that that email voting is a relatively unimportant in
terms of um...
social change
if you want to start with real social change
then you know why isn't there a massive protest right now
to do something about climate change all over the country
weak and ineffective set of environmental institutions
certainly be energy in fair although it may be difficult to do it in the
northeast in terms of the two sticks but the energy is their but the
institutional leadership
at this point we are putting pressure party
is not here have third-party win because
that isn't going to happen this time
it's more are self identification
and practice
for standing up against the establishment
because these guys
when that
when the pressure is on my current harp around eleven or or any other
a moment yes guys just
if you don't do what we tell you to do the sky will follow and and and every
single co
thirty into terrible places and that is exactly what they are staying with this
election
expect leave the message that loving well that's a little drop obama and
ability to banks will take the state for michael everywhere couscous she might
have a popular
on the political blogs
that so but
but the fact is of little lets us know
ye the title yet because they're progressive case against obama you're
speaking to people
if you're not speaking to people who have no plans to vote
is making people up plans to vote for obama i mean why else write this piece
uh... and mean the year the to the extent that you're making an argument
we can get a sense of who you were audiences your audiences
those people who are planning to vote for obama if they don't vote
or they vote for uh... third-party candidate who
we greed has no chance to win
they are increasing the likelihood the one thing that we can reassure a i mean
this is a mathematical equation
the one thing they're increasing the likelihood is
that we'll have mit romney is present and i mean i don't think i'm making a
controversial argument here i'm simply i'm following the lines of what you're
saying
and i mean that is the application did i mean
yong that part of it
but karla
where i am not also self identification and the value of that afterwards
but i mean let's let's just get let's just agree with with that what we know
are the real world applications
maybe romney
and we can have this argument to as to whether or not romney will be worse than
no bomb a and for hope
let's at least agree on the implications of what you're suggesting here
and i'm not saying that these are you know this uh... this is wild i i think
it's a
i think it's certainly within the bounds of the
of uh... of a uh... a rational argument but it will
contribute to
mitt romney's ability to become president
what your session with her
what's my obsession with
you know why are you trying to carry
gang-banging that you taken action
and if we are i'd just one of the of the most forward in this conversation of
that's why i got a little bit on my way that you and your parents
tremendous risks
q both mitt romney a drop a bomb explosion
uh... i think that those risks need to be acknowledged
and i don't think people are quoting progressed of another term of rockwell i
can assure you you guys intended to convey that once battle i don't uh...
sorry but don't wait gin shay don't reduce the keys to make
electrodes election
and then i'm not building that i and not doing that and you don't have all of the
you don't have to get out who
read the people in there
political choices and and need to go out
and i think that it's really
in a problematic seems to reduce their denial and now i just wondered why me
because i don't think that the other mcdonough clean that
i'm just trying to make
i did your asking people yours your arguing for people to do
action and
and all i'm talking about so that we can move forward not caremark bernard i'm
arguing
for people to do i walk was arguing back and let me know what to do you have the
lindy but if you want to stockpile and if you want to say this is
action d that's fine
in the context of the election you're asking people and okay we don't have
data on who read the piece whom i don't know if you look at your direction i
think people should i think they should go to both iraq obama barney expiry
what are you gonna do about the obvious climate catastrophe that are heading our
way we can get one of them have been emperor
that you think make sense and i don't mean benign climate change and i don't
mean dodging it back saying that you're going to go for well accordingly
idea really answer
spoke for that person
warnaco to to demonstrate say there's a strike at wal-mart
probably the most fundamental uh... economic organization in art in our
country or maybe even in the world
what do you think about that
and nxp giving answer and vote for that you like them vote for that person the
i'm arguing for people to do protest i'm arguing for people to duke direct action
i'm are going pretty good to have the political intellectual integrity will
block power
social chapter
and that's that's my fundamental argument i don't have i don't
particularly care who wins in this election it doesn't matter
and and so if you're kroger
but i think a lot of people feel the way that idea
and i'm not sure that those people are gonna vote anyway
yet mike april cigarette case was being read by people who were not
in acute care
uh... developer notes
well right now i think we don't know who who read your piece i don't have this
that's you don't have this that's they don't exist we can't possibly know
and maybe it was uh... i don't know why you have to
entitle it a progressive case against obama
why did it why not a conservative case again so bomb why not amin the point is
it's if if we're not going to acknowledge
yeah i guess the piece is meaningless
enough
people were already going to vote for a third party
or if they work in a vote at all the pieces meaningless i'm trying to say
all i'm trying to say and i want to get to these other aspects of it all i'm
trying to say is is that uh... what let's then it let's do it this way let's
make it a hypothetical and i am brian brian putting out the the uh... the
caveat here this i thought that it will
for someone
who was planning to read uh... to vote for president obama
and they read your piece
and they decide and they live in ohio let's say or wherever swing states like
this when states you mentioned
and they vote for a third party or they don't vote it all
will you at least acknowledging that hypothetical situation
maybe there's no one like that who would read your piece
uh... but in that hypothetical situation it does increase the chances
of mit romney win it
this simply norrath i mean i just want to do you know this is something that
uh... you know i will uh... in the context of me
i'm not obsessed with this uh... i'm only obsessive because you'd only
appears that way because bias in the serbian incidents a relatively quick
response if you don't
it's a different answer if you think there's no difference between the two
it doesn't matter
uh... there's no this questions not loaded in any way
you sense that i think that they will lectures special road
uh... on that matter the i think this is indisputable
uh... and military pero every period that you laid out
but say that there is an undecided voter who is the
banco
hehehe i have
been thinking about voting for obama
and the reader people repair argued about third-party indicated with affect
the election ok farms so issued alternately we could be around the
corner
and they could get back to the third party
that all took effect helps right now i don't know why they are merely listening
to the progress of case against obama
and decide to vote for a third party in the uneven outlined there
their third-party uh...
third-party yeaa
because i believe that my arguments are persuasive and i think that group
persuasion to people who were on the right now persuasion lamotte this
alright names to be direct that that's fine
appt that's fine
so no let's let's just take this one by one
in terms of the difference between obama and romney
to the extent that we can know what either one of them is going to do
you seem in the piece to be sure
or you seem to think that ronnie doesn't care about choice as an issue
uh... about abortion rights as an issue that may or may not be the case but
that's not relevant the real question is
what would have no of romney administration do
now it seems to me
that
there is a difference and i think you and i actually had a twitter exchange
about this probably a year ago
uh... at this point affirm a whole lot of it comes down to the supreme court
you seem to think that there's not going to be a difference in terms of
uh... of
the puppet the possible appointments to the supreme court
lundy here your perspective on that
is is that a fair characters are what i i don't know i don't think i i i i don't
them i think that um...
it's more likely that obama will appoint justices which had some modicum of
social justice in there
you know in there
in the way that they think about
i think that that's
you know that that i don't think about snuff
right ok i mean so i mean i think we can agree that
um...
randy is
far more likely to appoint justices who would be willing to
curtail uh... a woman's right
to choose when it comes to that far more likely
to appoint justices
who uh... might find that uh...
domas constitutional
uh... issues like that write them more religion in the classroom x at a rec
center
we can agree on many aren't vat
that uh... the supreme court writing install i think it's five before now
and um... see u you know
running could make it sixty-three
or send it to
but i think that that
you know a liberal captors
sort of begin i think about strategy to get around to kick work at this point
i'd estimate we also have to about five blocks were in their mid-seventies
now it's possible sculley could live forever who knocks but um...
but six to three is also probably a generator i mean i i i just are just
don't get into what the court had gone over the last
twenty years
we need new strategies uni that'd be good if there's not time for traditional
reformist
well let's wait twenty years and maybe we can you'll get a five-to-four
majority of or we did not have time for that
so i would have really matters that we're not talking to you guys are aimed
at least insignificant
went to that but i mean let's also not forget
that you know
that barack obama
entrench the hyde amendment
in his uh... you know in obama care
and so if you talk about a woman's right to choose
it certainly more likely that the republicans will use that issue
because that's what their base walked
but brocco mama believes in the right to choose
only for people who can afford it
and and that to me is it tomorrow
and i think that we should recognize that and i i i don't i i don't see eye
to i think we should be about reached about the hyde amendment as we are about
you know the possibility of overturning roe v_ wade when i'm having an abortion
access to abortion
it up on the bell right
but that means access to abortion the fundamental right you can't just say oh
well you know
young women shouldn't have plenty
because i'm a product and i at of two girls so i know what that means
rock about upset that
and so you can't
prepared like this guy is some great time-warner for people that are telling
about pro-choice because he's not i'm not i'm not
i'm not making a case for president obama in a vacuum here
i'm making a case uh... for voting for president obama in the context of
one of two guys are gonna be president
one or two guys are going to shape the future now it's not twenty years and we
talked the supreme court there's no way i don't know yet if there is no wait
he said what if you guys are going to be president
that's true what if you guys are going to shape the future that's not true okay
this is because boorda because where people can come if we are good
it you protest
you get out there and organize any thinking the way from the elite that
they want
they will respond
barackobama mit romney do not have to shape our future and that is
fundamentally what i'd say hi o'leary with that in candidates who have the
same economic
strategy
essentially
but some minor differences that one of the street to people going to get a
dictator of this country that just might adopt well you know get outta alamat
began or ended social change now i wasn't agree with that we're talking in
the context of
uh... i do think that there's going to be a big difference frankly between
uh... of bombers spree in court and arron the supreme court i do think six
three makes a huge difference both
let me finish with a couple of interesting under entirely wrong here is
if you were moving to cleaners oracle brahma i think that been in gilmer how
the battle robot right now that i think
implies that he went over the last word now democrats are simply underweight
back the whole brock obama parable
understand holding accountable but the but this
and listened i
was hoping to spend the bulk of this interview to talk about uh... the the
social movements in the protest
but we need to go through this part of it because it's the it's the bulk of of
u_p_s_ this was talked about
i think
that it's very unlikely
that a guy like scalia in kennedy
are going to be serving until there well into their nineties
i think they're going to go out now could be fifteen years but that's gonna
make a big difference
if ruth baird ginsburg or briar uh... is replaced by someone who is fifty years
old it's gonna make
uh... it's gonna be a different swing fifteen years
and probably thirty five years
now with that said
i think that
there is a but there's a clear difference when it comes to issues
of of uh... of a woman's uh... right to choose of these social issues
also think
while the difference is not as stark we still have just mister malone i think it
was knox d_s_ asi i you which severely hurt uh... of the ability for labor
unions
uh... to organize
now yes i know we may be one pass the time where labor unions are important
force in this country
but nevertheless that was a five-four decision
uh... there was a uh... eighty mt case out in california
about uh... access to the courts
uh... centrally for
or tort remedies that was a five-four decision there are other five those
subpoenaed obviously um...
uh... citizens united
their there is a difference with the supreme court and i think that to a
certain extent
if nothing else um...
we are we're on the precipice of of
of a timeline of the potential to uh...
to flip back to a five four
more progressive not
progressive per se but more so more towards that end of the spectrum
and
it seems to be here we don't have a carpenter okay
you've redouble people bag hurricane katrina
you are to sublease just got flooded we don't have time but it's kind of
reformist incremental at no charge
we need it
a real resistance movement we need of actual challenges to our institution we
can't play little games which take all nine people on roads
and q you know to candidates occurred covenant our entire future adjusting to
peace just
simply reject that way of thinking about it up and i rejected for a very simple
speaking
i don't want to die in america and quite a catastrophe if you don't want to die
domestic when the capacity then you should start thinking about what that
means will be listening in on the
help us
in terms of that urgency i mean you say you don't know but i could buy dot com
arm we're not saying that he had no real past me going into parking open-minded
under brought the bobbitt weekly under towards bush hot uh... aren't sure if i
understand
but i'm not i'm not talking about george bush
i'm not talking about whether or not we should have social movements
i'm just talking about when people go to cast their vote
if it makes no difference whatsoever
uh... mister i don't say i didn't see it makes no difference at imparted
basically it's impossible to know
who will be a better price
white but i wanted to make the booking we do know that were up a bottle of its
unproductive growl
if romney and all bomber
will be equally back
in terms of the drinks a day deeply about i said
it's impossible to know
who would be better if there are good reasons to vote for barack obama there
are also good reasons to book a mit romney within reason the buyer from
around by happened come back on the third parties outside because
in anything improper barman departments
platformer track record it's a character that they would give president i would
want about what is but i think he's got out of at least responsive to the snack
what is the value of learning for someone you know can't wait
the value of the vote any personal
most folks don't matter we know that so what is the point of voting is really
what you're we're asking not only the well you're not asking that i'm asking
for what is the value of voting for someone you know can't win
if voting doesn't matter
then people should just vote for barack obama if they want to uh... they should
just vote and then it doesn't then this whole conversation is moot why write
this peace now
why not write it after the election
well because i wanted people to keep her so i just don't again i think that
voting
hero is
it's a relatively unimportant
civic act between expenditure going to do and i think you should use it
to dedicate yourself q a principled
on had a transform society and that can then the lead
no i do think that do you make a difference
iraq's actions of social change
armed so and that i have attached a vet actually had it in his government right
at that point get to this thing about dedicating yourself to social action so
in other words
if below
for president obama
somehow i am not
dedicating myself to
hesitating against policies of his that i don't like somehow i'm not uh...
dedicating myself to uh...
uh... fighting
uh... for
the diminishment of of of fossil fuels
and what what
what if i just say that i think that i got thing i think part of our team
but if u prick
in the piece as it were naked if you're willing to say barack obama has imposed
a far more authoritarian structure
on our culture
and he's got all sorts of things including the murdered people throwing
strikes and yahoo eager to get all the parts but i think he is a better choice
the mit romney
go ahead and do that but i really object to and i and i could take a good thing
to do that we're going to acknowledge
the reality of a constraint on
i think you can go forward and say we need to generally pressure on him to
change that's exactly right about that for her
early political elites
my problem is
most people who vote for barack obama dot i actually think that
most people say uh-oh ghetto he'd lesser of two evils
sister makes better et cetera and those aren't necessarily untrue while we're
there also are you willing to actually god's gift at the passage of division
implement and that really that was that was like alot i want people to
understand that this guy had a policy agenda he implemented it
and that we didn't read it that copycat adventure
i think that's one thing i mean i i i agree with that assessment for me it is
a it is a uh... a decision of uh... lesser of two evils let you know i
called her a primary done so far are crowded without colonel
well on their side up
and i would put protocol today
your neighbor gergen carrot he wanted a volunteer republicans
artwork on prime rate at the democratic party
or along contents you know
and hear arguments are always trotted out
you're not just for why we should elect democrats over republicans
or why we should elect conservative democrats over liberal democrats fibers
so i don't play dough
except those arguments ben and i don't accept and out fundamentally i keep
social change comes from the people
and that's what this piece is about we have to really go watch that and
understand what it means
and if you both third party in means you do understand what it means
you need to have dedicated yourself to this
with his son that's the part that i have a problem with that looked high also
called for a primary challenge against obama
it just
it was the apparently no one wanted to step up and i think there was a lot of
reasons for that
um...
and
agree with you that uh... any calls you know i'd
hi i'd look a there's a lot of reasons why uh... i think people didn't
uh... there was no one there essentially to uh... primary opa monopolies div
which because he had such uh... strong global support and i am on some level
also very sympathetic to glen for its uh... argument we had a mom this program
a couple months ago to
to talk about that piece
uh... but
while so
while high agree
social movements are of paramount importance
i think that
we make a mistake and it is
very fussy hill
to say that there's no implicated difference
fino implications as to who will be the president
in january now i think the argument getting better
also that a little bit the risk
abroad biographies etiquette
and that the risk of mit romney is also sick
and yahoo dot c_n_n_ you see
the risk of a of uh... of a romney to be more significant or less significant
and you can say i don't know
okay
and look at in the public in party
uh...
i don't see if there's nothing about mit romney were both from massachusetts
we know this guy
there's nothing about mit romney
that leads me to believe uh... that
if he gets a bill saying from
uh... whatever it is reinstate delmar or make it within a a or
whether or not uh... it comes time to appoint a m
uh... a right wing a judge that he won't do it
uh... and i think that it will probably be a dot let's go to the data combat are
coming altogether we were talking about policy
we're really talking about
his work watching for the country's so i i thought that very interesting
uh... their by a guy named joe irish parker
who sent it to me today
e do you need a sheet of the country
so the change in the shared unionized workforce
was um...
the country to unionize most aggressively during the reagan
administration
uh... since since nineteen twenty two p but the president
baptist great upheaval patient thanks for the clinton
the third took place under obama
opinion in the fourth took place under george w bush
if you're in it isn't the same is true of ob the average share of income going
to the top one-percent increases that are breaking second-biggest with the
clinton and the fabric under obama
worked with under
george bush so few looking at a larger back roberto anyhow the peace policies i
don't think it's fair to say that the republicans are always works sometimes
the democrat's numbers
we have actually start understand why i did
do you think that it's uh... do you think uh... let's talk about medicaid
for instance
i mean uh... in terms of paying for people's uh...
time in their sing
uh... of
you respond to that animated it out
i mean can you respond to that
idi optional data
to the data that we have had a kid i would not have a kid but but i i think
we had
amenities mutation looks back at the clinton but it was under george w bush
it was fast learner by obama to look at it sort of u_s_ troops are generating
and everyone and attending easter income about growth of the rich at the uh... to
share of income
status in the reagan
becky thatcher's under clinton their fast under obama four thousand under
george w
well i mean i think i mean to me what what about me
why definitely think it means that uh... policy choices in the main are dictated
by the wrecked
and that uh... parties uh... don't make much of a difference uh... at that level
and then i that spend every day for the past two years
saying that one thing or another but
at the but that doesn't necessarily mean
that i'm willing to
uh... too
i guess in hansa d ability of
those people to sort of uh... underfunded poor people
uh... to cut away to take away people's um... health care
um... i mean high you have been talking on nauseam about uh... my belief that
uh... president obama is
were going to uh... cuts are scary through
through book cost of living increases come uh... january or february i i i
i'm not blind to these uh... to these realities abut i'm also not blind to the
fact
that there are
even if it's just marginal we're talking about
hundreds of thousands if not millions of people
rule are better off
uh... under obama administration that irani administration to the extent that
we can go in any way what they're going to be able to do
i mean that's the reality uh... i do know that already we had a look at the
gala entitled under around was a brilliant though more women arenella
property
and they were when drop while the pentagon massillon ohio crisis if you
look at predatory lending and if you book are you know foreclosures are up to
date on preclusion
totally cleared yet but
this disproportionately impacts women the fastest growth growing group imagine
totally discount with fathers license but you can't just say oh women's rights
are about
uh... are about
uh... trying not to send you have to look at it at a bar coder can and
frankly i i i can't go bombing dot likely to cut
dedicated thereon here's
well um... ido i mean i don't really see that's not and i was in a while extended
medicaid not because the pit
he wanted q
however the poor but because wal-mart watered
that they would have to pay
yale lasting benefit
they've been complaining about that if it's for a long time
let me know if i could trigger a larger factors here obama we've made it it was
easier for obama to extend this medicaid because of his party and lead to the
extent that he has electoral base
uh... that's what they wanted and that's also going to influence uh... network
okayed so it's not except that george bush
explore had a market prescription drugs
ectopic implemented medicare part b
helped a lot of soldiers
even though it was done in an incredibly corrupt banner
it happened under the republicans and a republican congress house and senate
and george bush
because of the business interests behind
right and let me ask you this when it comes time to uh... fund
uh... the the
cleanup the disaster relief
for uh... this hurricane for instance
and that's gonna come out sometime in january or february right
and oppressor o bombers gonna say we need this cash
and the of republicans in the house are going to say
not unless we cut somewhere else
where where do you think there would be even well fight to this in terms of
romney or do you think that uh... i do think romney would
any first act would be to robot the uh... the
to the republican help congress or no
it hard to trade because it will not look at let's look at the data okay
so under katrina
right george bush potentially depicting opened a lot of really protected there's
been a good funding begumpet fixing
uh... what happened
in dual
and batman atmosphere under george bush the devil is also true under brought the
bombing and really
he really said
i've even though he did something that he campaigned on
it would be hard to say that were added to our last two time will be for like
three times in congress ave
when guys that are made up out of congress far greater additional funds
occasional relating my market both times
the republican congress said
not unless uh... oh we offset this
we're talking about the trucks
but let me know
does the republican congress get out because brought them over at least
partisan abrupt obama
you know ke he believed in fiscal austerity
who knows we might say doubt the great
opportunity for endicott more i mean he bragged about spending cuts
maybe there are any number of expect or cut spending their suction starting at
mit romney of agrees with that but i'm not going to rockne harmon is more
likely to be a was president of the i'd just don't know i think if there's
evidence
in in both areas
but i i hope we want to point out that would be aiding out
again we keep leaving out
the people don't go and i think that the question really is what can we do to
ensure that repair happen respected and sustainable manner in new york in the
northeast yet the harding infrastructure for quite a change we have to do it to a
crash course carbon reduction that will not happen the underwriter that ronnie
or brock obama without
extreme advocating
from institutional who right now are too busy working to be elected president
obama to deal with issues are catholics arbitrage
eric that you're going to go
i had not high eyelid agree with that and i think to a certain extent my
lesson under george bush land
you know and i i speak as as someone who was uh...
mater voter in two thousand or you know votes walk from new york
would
um...
uh...
that my experience was is that uh...
on my calendar president nobody uh...
the lines of of what you talk about really dedicated people who are
genuinely dedicated
institutions that are genuinely dedicated to progressive uh... change
completely cloud
that uh... it seems to me that under a omit romney presidency what happens is
is that all that energy is simply uh... in furtherance of partisan goals and
there's no real growth of the left
uh... and that's you know i think to the extent that we want to make this
election
simply about the theory of change
uh... that is that comes from the ground up i mean i think that gets very short
shrift i mean
uh... for
the
eight years that i was over four years i guess five years that i was
professionally agitating against uh... george bush
there was a lot of people who i in
would speak to an interview whenever said
uh... it's okay to cut social security and to a certain extent i think a lot of
those uh... a lot of those differences become
uh... more clear
and the the size of the problem and the nature of the problem i think it's far
more clearer frankly under a a democratic administration then a
republican because
uh... i don't think frankly that uh... we're
we were any closer to change after uh... george bush i think were actually in
some respects a far closer now because we it's far easier to see
where the people's incentives and agendas lineup
what's your sense of that
url whether argued
i guess i look at the the question lately differently
i am
alertpay bishop little serious but i really like
indian comforted talks about the golden rule theory of alvar
which in turn
in american politics is not really about voters it's about
they called it
investors
uh... who
who fund elections in funds think tanks and what not and does
better but those business
and labor coalitions are quite meaningful in terms of determining
policy
so uh... and it's not that the public is going to relevant they are sometimes the
biggest to talk about
so what i'm trying to figure out its
how do you create new stakeholders or moving kissing stakeholders
who uh... i took a a coalition badly wants actually
little private regional mysterious way
uh... and
i don't know how to do that
but i think it happens
with recognizing that fyi obama irani coalitions
are actually
basically the same coalition of also kill interests and fun
and that that that that our opposition and we have to figure out a way at
craft that new
that of of stakeholders or bring stakeholders from within the corporate
world in the label will
toward a new coalition which works for more sustainable global
economic order
and india and and
my argument is that
i think uh...
it becomes
arrive think
the obama administration and the romney administration
represent uh... those same people
under or no bomb administration seems to me because
six months into iran the administration we're just talking about the republicans
being the party of uh... the oligo oil adoptees
uh... and
uh... we forget and mean
uh... that you know to the extent of it
of the theory of change that i mean i think there's as much to be said uh...
about that is is
as as your argument i just don't see why
uh... the citizenry as you suggest in your piece is going to get
better under ronnie or it's not it's just going to be basically
um... more
uh... certificates two
partisanship but i mean not not
rappers in the sense that there were reports has but it's going to be more
the attacks on ron they're gonna be lasts a lot about the issues and more
about uh... the democrats
older people
well i i i don't uh... i don't have an answer
i would say that
i think it's important for
individuals
in groups
who are dissatisfied direction of the country
and make that clear
and begin to organize
a coalition that
to the existing direction
and so i think that one way of making that clear
at least yourself
captive it's not vote for either of the two political parties
back if u bulk for one of them and you also say i'm going to organizing
aggressively advocate
and moments like it's going
aftermath correction
or any direction and that's you know that's good too
that they get uh...
at the basic
idea behind the peace
book at the situation
strong capable made against barack obama's out
well i think we uh... we we've we've come to the uh... point of agreement
uh...
now uh... and uh... i'd appreciate your taking the time
uh... and it's definitely therapeutic i would ask that question please don't
please
all right
it collections so important
so like you yours
sellable show about
votes
whether one vote could
you know we really matter to me whereas this uh... here
enormous
feel it important to them selection coming
well i mean i think your your you're overstating uh...
motion and it's i mean interviewing you about this piece yesterday was about
uh...
was about uh... how food has become
uh... financial eyes which uh...
had nothing to do about the election but i mean i do think
that there are
real implications for people
uh... in terms of the outcome of this election
and
most of those in
most of those implications in my mind
are centered around the supreme court
uh... fink that
there is
very strong arguments that in terms of real world suffering
uh...
or we're going to see more of it under romney them we would under president opa
my think
there's a real reason to believe that uh...
uh... president romney would be more likely to uh... to get us into a
full-fledged war this is not
being blind at all to the uh... to president obama's expanding drone
programs
um...
hideout
like to get into the business of weighing uh... you know
which loss of lights is worker roadblocks at the loss of life is worse
but um...
hi think that you know no
witnessed
george bush
uh...
lead us into a war that was illegal and
displaced four million people in killed
at the very least several hundred thousand uh...
uh... innocent civilians
and
uh... so i do think that their implications here do i think it's the
end all be all know and uh... you know my program
uh... when i talk about for ninety minutes a day over the past two years
has reflected that but
uh... you know today we had on
do you have this piece that a lot of people are talking about and
so i i don't know that uh... time
i don't know if you characterize my emotions about this uh... also you know
i'm on the radio cell theirs
when i talk about anything and try and make it dramatic and exciting as for the
people will continue to listen but
uh... i don't think is the and i'll be all i think this is just uh...
the beginning of of basically waging a very strong defensive fight against
uh... president obama but i
i think that it's one that uh...
there's more opportunity
for leverage under a president obama than under president ron
at literally old
i'd masculine appreciate your coming on
uh... buddy thank you very much
a contract
and that uh... russell
uh... banks
should give you more time back in the show
it's brown prior and russell brand should give you more time on the show
uh...
well i'd appreciate
iraqi here out
uh... yeah
all right thanks for coming up