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GINGRICH: But in the CROSSFIRE tonight, Democratic Congressman Keith Ellison of Minnesota and Bill Kristol, editor of "The Weekly Standard."
And let me start, Keith. Along the same line, this just keeps going. Last night we had Valerie Jarrett tweet the following: "Nothing in Obama care forces people out of their health plans. No change is required unless insurance companies change existing plans." Now I just -- I'm going to you in a second, but the Obama care law requires the insurance company to change the plan. The insurance company then says, "I'm now changing your plan." And the government, which makes them change their plan, is saying it's the insurance company's fault. What am I missing?
REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: I think it's substantially true. The fact of the matter is -- is that we have 85 -- about 80 percent of the people who have employer-based health care, their situation is essentially the same, only it's better because now we have insurance reform that makes this thing, as Stephanie said, pre- existing conditions and other things work better.
On the folks who are in the individual market, we've now said you can't have a plan that basically has all these fine-print points and doesn't pay. There has to be some basic standards. And so if the plan you're offering doesn't meet those standards, then you've got to upgrade. That's what this is all about.
The fact is I think that this is an improvement in people's lives. We're one month out from October 1. We are scrutinizing this thing. And let's face it, Newt, there's a lot of people whose scrutiny isn't on the up and up because they've never liked insurance reform.
BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": It's nice of you -- it's nice of you to improve people's lives, but maybe they should have a say in it. How many of the plans -- how many of the people -- 19 million...
ELLISON: November 2012, I mean, people did make a choice.
KRISTOL: Right. And the president went around the country saying, "I'm going to take away your health-insurance plan"? He said the opposite. They made a choice, thinking that they could keep their health insurance under Obama care.
CUTTER: You're talking about 5 percent of the population.
KRISTOL: I'm sorry, 19 million people purchased individual health-insurance plans in the United States last year. Those are 19 million Americans. How many of them are grandfathered in? How many are grandfathered? How many?
CUTTER: Bill, you understand what happens in the individual marketplace. Nobody keeps their plan year after year. Very few of them do. That's the nature of an individual marketplace.
KRISTOL: ... plan that they would like...
CUTTER: And they would like to get a better plan.
KRISTOL: ... keep their plans. I'm sorry.
ELLISON: If it has an expiration date.
KRISTOL: Oh, and that's just tough on you, and then you have to go on the exchanges and take the plan they want you...
CUTTER: That's the market.
KRISTOL: That's not the market.
CUTTER: That is the market.
KRISTOL: Before, people could buy a plan. In a free country. Let me just ask you this. Why would you support -- you could have all these features you want. If my friend in Washington, D.C., who got his notice of cancellation last week, likes his card plan, and the insurance company likes selling him his card plan. And he's a bright guy; he's a Ph.D. He's read the fine print. He doesn't need Keith Ellison or Stephanie Cutter or anyone else to explain to him what he needs, why can't he renew it? Why can't he renew it?
ELLISON: Because -- I'm going to answer. Because we don't make public policy based on your friend. We make it for a country. And if your friend...
KRISTOL: And if you make public policy for all...
ELLISON: And if your friend -- if your friend wants to go to a restaurant that has a bunch of health code violations because it's cheaper there, well, you know what? The health inspector might say, "No we're not going to do that. We're not going to allow that."
KRISTOL: This was fully legal.
ELLISON: It didn't meet the basic requirements of the law, Bill, so there had to be something.
KRISTOL: OK, that's great. There has to be some changes. Is that what the president said? There has to be some changes? The president said, "You can keep your plan, period."
ELLISON: No, what he said is, it was a campaign speech. He's not a...
KRISTOL: He said it. He said it a hundred times. He said it in a prepared speech to the American Medical Association. You can keep your plan, period.
(CROSSTALK)
GINGRICH: Hold on. Hold on, guys.
ELLISON: And that is substantially true. And anybody who --
KRISTOL: Oh, you don't believe that, Keith.
ELLISON: Of course I do. Eight percent of the people in employer situations the only change was that their plan choice got better.
GINGRICH: He didn't say that. And this is -- I think this is fundamental to running a free society. He went -- and he didn't say -- it wasn't a policy -- come on. He went around the country, over and over. I think we could fill two hours with excerpts of Barack Obama saying you could get -- they're lying to you. You get to keep your plan. And you get to keep your doctor.
ELLISON: For the people on employer-based health care, that's true. You agree with that. Eighty percent of the people. Eighty percent of the people.
KRISTOL: That's not entirely true for people with employer-based health care.
ELLISON: If we're having a new law we know there will be changes. Right?
CUTTER: There is something else going on here. There is something else going on here. And Bill, let me talk to you about this.
ELLISON: Bill's for the status quo.
CUTTER: You've been against this plan. That...
ELLISON: Yes. He's for -- go for it.
CUTTER: You've been against this plan from the beginning.
KRISTOL: You get to keep your plan, Congressman Ellison?
ELLISON: No.
KRISTOL: Really?
ELLISON: No. I got to go through the exchange.
KRISTOL: With 75 percent of your plan subsidized by the taxpayer, unlike anyone else on the exchanges.
ELLISON: Wait a minute, my employer -- this is an employer subsidy. This is what we had before. As a matter of fact, you know, the reality is that members of Congress do have to go through the exchange. I'm going in through the exchange.
KRISTOL: With 75 percent subsidy from the taxpayer that no one else on the exchange gets.
ELLISON: Well, wait a minute.
KRISTOL: And you -- and the Republicans in the House tried to stop...
ELLISON: What was the deal before? Right? I used to have federal...
KRISTOL: You get to keep your plan. Unlike everyone else in America, you get the same arrangement. ELLISON: Bill, I'm in the exchange.
CUTTER: We can discuss what members of Congress are getting, but that's not really the point here. The point is that you've been against the health-care law from the start. You've been against the health-care law from the start. There's something else going on here.
In the '90s it was the same situation. You wrote a famous memo in 1993 saying Republicans should not compromise with Democrats, because it would make the Democrats the party of the middle class forever. And that's exactly what's going on here. People are making political points here. They're not making substantive points. We're not even giving this law a chance. We're a month into it being implemented. As of January 1 -- as of January 1, we'll know.
KRISTOL: I'm not the one -- I'm not the one who's stopping it from being implemented.
CUTTER: February 1 we'll know. March 1 we'll know.
KRISTOL: I totally agree.
CUTTER: But don't you agree that people are making political points here?
KRISTOL: I'm not making any point. I mean, I didn't...
ELLISON: Here's the larger question.
KRISTOL: I didn't do anything about the Web site. I didn't say if you wanted your plan you could keep it. All my...
ELLISON: Bill, Bill, Bill, don't you agree....
KRISTOL: My only point is why can't people keep their plan?
ELLISON: Bill, don't you agree that what we had before we passed the Affordable Care Act was an unacceptable situation for millions of Americans? Don't you agree we needed reform?
KRISTOL: Yes, and we didn't need to reform it in such a way that people who liked their plan had to have it taken away from them.
ELLISON: So -- so what is it? So...
KRISTOL: Many Republicans and many Democrats proposed ways to reform health care.
ELLISON: And by the way, the health-care bill we have is modeled on a Republican plan. I mean, the fact is that the Massachusetts law, this comes up out of a Republican...
CUTTER: Heritage Foundation.
ELLISON: And so now you guys don't like the porridge that you cooked. I mean, come on. GINGRICH: Hold on a second. It's not accurate to say, "Let's wait for a while." People in Florida...
ELLISON: You got to give it a chance.
GINGRICH: People in Florida, 300,000 have been told they will be, quote, "transitioned."
CUTTER: To a better plan. In the individual market, it happens every single year. It happens every single year. You guys are defending a broken market. That's what you're defending.
ELLISON: Oh by the way -- oh, by the way, what do we have, 8 percent inflation? Medical inflation. Now we're down about 5.6. And we're even bending the cost curve down. More people are going to have health care insurance before. You can't expect to have -- to change the law and have everything perfect.
KRISTOL: These places are not...
(CROSSTALK)
GINGRICH: All right. Hold on.
KRISTOL: Have you looked at the plans on the exchanges?
GINGRICH: OK. Just stick with us.
KRISTOL: All right.
GINGRICH: After all the administration's stonewalling today in a hearing, Health and Human Services Secretary, Kathleen Sebelius, testifies on Capitol Hill tomorrow.
Next, I'll tell you what I would like to ask her.