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over the last week I've we've never done in
in Mexico on family reunions slash occasion thing and so
I kinda missed out on a lot of weird activity when he pitched
its all I to catch up and I'll and I I'd also while I was down there been
able to read things on the internet mmm watch you national television
and oddly enough hots and
CNN play Mexico and
a saw steep hill on been interviewed more than once in
and pool just wanted to reconnect Professor Steven Cohen professor
emeritus New York University in Princeton University
contributing editor to the nation magazine author of the book Soviet
states lost alternates
stalinism to the new Cold War the website for the nation courses donation
dot com because you can welcome back to the program ok thank you but I
your leisure life I too was going home 28 reunion but in Kentucky
on top but obstacle in New York yeah well we write words like Michigan but
this is this is my sister-in-laws idea and it's my first it was our first
vacation in 10 years
on these nights I'll not good my take my vacation in Moscow on Kentucky
all that's that sounds like fun also your your thoughts on
on what the current state of affairs is between
a leaders to dynamics that I'm I'm concerned about I'd love to get your
take on one is the dynamic between Russia
yeah ukrainians and crimea
and the other is the dynamic between the administration the Obama administration
in the bush administration break that a lot of course
yes all let me say something about the
I think you should on the air that you see me on Fox News annual surprised
it was just great news show and of
I'm not welcome everywhere but I believe that we could be in the run-up
to war and it's only a handful of people
supports all who are trying to give a somewhat
different perspective on this Ukrainian crisis which has been unfolding since
November
squatting worst and worst and worst
so Webber aus me which calming
see what you think she people shot at me
and you don't call me a protocol adjustable I think it's my duty to give
my perspective
to a few more people coming out but a lot of people getting the calls on this
one yeah I say on CNN to
mean he can't let me give you today's news okay in
because I think it post your question yeah I shared a on some unions
on to reach Korea show yesterday but I thought we were
three-step hope from ops war was rushing
the first time in history two steps from something
older listeners will remember a cuban missile crisis:
up the early sixties and then from there is one step toward
what are the two steps to the cuban missile crisis:
it is following it's being argued
in Europe and in washington by the war party
that we the West immediately moved
nato troops to the police West Ukrainian border
so far as I know they're not proposing moving nato troops into Ukraine
in the less you know the West is pro-western so country geographically
and politically divided
we've got a lot of people running around saying that isn't so prepared just
giving up he to the disaster western policy it's a divided country and nobody
should have ever asked him to choose
yes these people and these are people I don't know
you know what I can't remember because we talk all the time but people like
McCain
the war party Hughton ever say people are in Brussels in the European Union
move nato troops so
yes moral troops to the border western Ukraine remember polynesian
nato so legally they could do that what would put into
I believe you remember last week he practiced
exercise two hundred fifty thousand troops go home ttyl crimea
supposed to go to Armenia he said about a relationship
Russian he would send those troops into southern in eastern Ukraine
then we have can be watch doing
would we be watched after more there's two pieces about news today
he scheming in
it is reported out of the Russian news agencies
mom and they don't usually like all reports poems or stories but about to
get straight
that nato warplanes are landing
in Poland and Romania I don't know why
is a symbolic are going on a vacation
are the preparation troop movement because troops need your cover
I don't know second patient loses
also reported out a Russian but I believe to be true carry
a secretary state was supposed to go to moscow your tomorrow or the next day
to meet with the foreign minister of Russia love of
presumably he also would she who that would have been
good back as churchill better to talk talk talk
confide carry cancelled is busy today
weenie gave wasn't terrible he said he needed more time to proportion documents
fair enough but he ended by saying the pool doesn't step back from Ukraine
scary nothing left to discuss it all what
in the world news about me that's get attached to me
it means we'll we're not talking we're arming and will were mobilised
i doing but I'll tell you one thing the russians don't like public throughout
and putting a particular not from Waffle not from secretary state or
carry or the white house and therefore
they are gonna put the worst pushed onto publication on what carries
so that's where we stand as we talk all
now my what we want to go back into much soloing he
he tell me something are when I went to party we had those
those yellow a nuclear fallout shelters me
are you too too young to remember those my way I was born in 51 I remember well
I i
by deducting pondering on my elementary school when we got to succeed in school
children put on your head you're gonna be okay well
I shoulda my wife call me maybe which began attacking ***'ite my dad's nuclear
fallout shelter list on the property down there yeah
Mike my dad actually a one-point talk we have a basement in our house Michigan he
was talking about
but in a supply which floor above it and putting up dirt on
apparently did insulates from radiation and we knew it when everybody is
terrified he was a wonderfully other sometime
it was in some ways yes you could learn from radiation poisoning
right exactly home question he
weenie might be and were threatened to say troops
it in poland groping it's being discussed in propose publicly
don't know that that's right now privately
we I don't mean me are you but the white house
ross also I think this is now in the hands of you remember
but Obama upon the whole Ukrainian question after the European Union to
want a pickle they completely screwed it up they won't admit it is blaming potent
but now the White House has to take it over so yes the White House
talking about moving nato troops to the border
ukraine I would guess where you are mother last day on a chinga publicly
but but but Russia I don't know but but perhaps gone when
when the Soviet Union do
dissolved go of my recollection is that mikhail gorbachev made a deal with
George Herbert Walker Bush
that nato would not solicit
poland ands Stroup and I believe the bill clinton broke that deal with
Washington
to what paper said he was secretary he was the first george bush's secretary
state to play
and the issue was the reunification of Germany this was nineteen ninety 90
want because church divided germany was the epicenter that cold war
everybody wanted to reunite germany even gorbachev but it was a tough sell russia
where are the Soviet Union had lost almost 27 million people
in the war against Germany in 41 44
gorbachev told them I've gotta take something home what about nato
emaciated we've got to unite nato we gotta you have cheesy what about you
nato but what about Germany's Germany gonna be in nato
and the West said we've got to do that there's no way to have squeal like
Germany
the whole journalist being 80 and what good
and paper showed and German formal shoes or
show was Condi Rice too low to give a book before she became a mucky muck
before she became submerged a crucial that we will not move
nato one inch to the east
today nato's on russia's borders the boss
I'm which they have to view over the genocide
I will be back we having for the half hour what so of how long do you want me
almost 15 minutes of the game yes thank you very much Steven Cohen professor
Stephen can only be right back with us
%uh the nation what misses the Thom Hartmann program what is going on
in Ukraine and what could it mean United States
more
welcome back we're talking with professor stephen cohen
love a New York University Princeton University
a complete engineer to the nation magazine an author Soviet states and
lost alternates
and the nation dot com please most recent piece
on professor cohen in up
I wrote a book recently called the crash 2016 which was really sort of an
analysis of how the whole doctrine has played out
United States upon them all but on
one other things that have been brought to my attention that I including the
book was that
roughly every every ears Wiese we experienced this cycle
and it's basically we learn a horrible lesson we stay smart for sixty years ten
people who were young and that lesson was learned start bombing of in its
stupid again for twenty years
repeat the mistake and it starts all over again and so
eighty years ago we had a great depression followed by world war two
eighty years before that we had the Great Depression 1856 followed by the
Civil War
eighty years before that there was a great crash in 1770 followed by the
American Revolution
and you can keep going in these eighty recycles all the way back to the world
the roses
on this is something that a Holland Strauss
a really going to lie to detail about your book was turning
n in my book I was suggesting you know this
crash could very easily lead to work because they always have in the past
and you know kinda more to regaining a mind game in scenarios
what do you think about that as you know they did but the world is a horrible
situation economically
war seems to benefit the elites at the very least in alternately put back
together economies
as I just totally crazed was obviously not totally crazy
party factory in expanded like spoken to you generations
of because you know the washington
doggystyle 1608 die in the eighties
about my culture shock of key are I we list
a because it lets our leadership are
are a leech orkut some things are
the department by in we have a
in the ukranian croatian is a classic example
collapse a political leadership
an elite making colony people who claim
be american-russian people not I've ever met want this
but the elite wanted for their own reasons whether it's been dashing
or whether it's a stupidity
where the rich gooey whether its power I don't know
but it's too late to sit down and figure out how they let it stand
questionnaires in for a way out there is a way out
there's a way out out the war danger there's a way
to creatively eliminate this crisis and maybe create a stable
ukraine which is the boss for between russian the worst
the question is where is the leadership we have demand
problem to the extent videos no legitimacy in the United States
we caution wrote in the washington post something on March 3rd
as common memo to obama: humanizing
boating is not a policy you can alibi
for not having a policy I would just a moment to say
it so alibi for having wrongheaded policy for twenty years
changed to return to your earlier point we began
breaking a promise to rush to expand nato
to russia's borders despite continued we were bound to come up
into a war zone as we do in charge in 2008
as we have today question is where's the leadership
home coupled on Professor Steven Cohen with us we'll be right back with
more with the place upon its 20 minutes past the hour you can read his writing
most recent with the nation dot com and
problem
RR Donnelley skiing because he went on on the line with us professor emeritus
at New York University in Princeton University congenial to the nation
magazine and author of Soviet states in los dos minutos some stalinism to the
new Cold War you can read his post reason he's
starting Russia over at the nation dot com professor cohen
arguably the up much of what we're seeing play out any
in Ukraine %uh began with aids
some sharpshooters on the topic buildings killing both
police and protesters some
both weeks or months ago up and there have been claims and counterclaims
that these shooters were there on behalf of those
the Ukrainian government or they were there on behalf of
you know a extreme rightists solar maybe even
I mean tomorrow Michelle bash lay is is installed as president in Chile
and there's some evidence that 8 ITT
back in the day but you know when Pena shade the
overthrow allende that there was *** of civilians
what was to be blamed on a government that was actually founded by one of our
corporations and
I noticed a back in November one of our largest oil companies pot a
multi-billion dollar deal with the
with the Ukrainian government for oil exploration post talking
yep for fracking exactly causes a lot coal shale are
is so are you know what what's the latest state-of-the-art have knowledge
about who those shooters were where they came from say why it's important
I am NOT a conspiracy buff
but I believe it dark forces operate where we can see them
all places began to people about it
in November when europe unwisely
imposed on a profoundly divided country
divided between russian the world an ultimatum
join Europol economic zone or join Roach
what Europe should be done proposed at that moment but of course you can't
perform Putin or you getting bashed way I have been
he said why is it either or why can't we both started crying out of this crisis
and later we'll decide if membership in both zones
economic is compatible and that was rejected but shut off quite simple
well on February 21
be European ministers will
Tokyo and the brokered a compromise president which recognized who me
recognize in Germany on calling
song with the opposition leaders agreement
for early presidential elections in December all along
you'll call which agreed honesty all of the people who had been arrested during
the protests and there were some other agreements
dog might have been a way out buddy died the next day
and one reason it died somebody was killing people and just reaching the top
building a high-power sniper rifles it will set up a time to oppose belong to
the government of Ukraine Janaka which
a mob move toward the presidential powers scholarly man but he knew what
happened to
other leaders in such situations and pledged to russia sport is now saying
watch were conversation should get on the agreement with you on a cold which
shock because he's legitimately elected president ukraine
and that europe signed off on which port political history back
pot it is important to know who snipers there were
though they were the Estonian Prime Minister Louis no country in the world
for any russian estonia
old foreign minister the European Union
he was deeply worried because those snipers
were not for me on a cold *** any city with worried
which some other protesters in the streets were behind no snipers
he didn't want to add what he was thinking protesters in which to reach
include queasy nochi movement a fascist movement that's long been in Ukraine
which now has paused members in the new PF government
past alarming shave at least who snipers they were
I don't know you're right that was a tipping point
but punches post war zone that i'm talking about.
because I the february 21 agreement hold the
it would be unstable everybody will be organizing to win the elections
December a 2014
not arming themselves and Google would not have taken over crimea
so they could the day could come when we look back
and say that was the Archduke well known it that's why and
what you can do with your cycle screens a
everybody's pulling out on the 100th anniversary beginning what
me and what we stumbled into World War one
and I we stumbling into World War three now
we have a quiz madeleine spin gacey
and Prejudice an unwillingness to listen because what we have now
and we're still talking someplace quietly we can see them to death talking
to the death are
rhetoric is just waiting in Moscow and Washington
article a little war is growing
while be a number of parties but not the United States has called for an
investigation about sniping
cause they agree that was a tipping point but what if it turns out to have
been
done on the part people who know
members ok this government in Kiev which we have embraced
where you at that school who benefit
well if you work with who benefited then
the any russians the any young old rich
source is prohibited because of the shootings a lot people there for a while
the number wasn't that hard but we usually people day
streets and buildings all just focal point president he had personally
it he had no choice once he played
the Constitution was done the extremist
didn't come apollo the peking partially showing Cornell
and Obama unwisely keeps declining
the government in kiev is legitimate note of caution
has no electoral patients in law law reality
now they're called elections for Bay but are we going to get to me
to good question week we only have about 20 seconds left do you think we're gonna
get to me
I'll me to cry palm I mean we need leadership
are the key will have to be played by
Michael which I'm sure Germany because button doesn't trust
Obama possible you know
yeah well its she has you know made noises though she had a Vikes
I think it was another program police job in all this is terrible
the we'll see I mean its leadership slip-up
yeah remarkable stop professor stephen cohen
a thank you so much for being with us the old
the place are you can check out his blog also it creates a lost alternation
stalinism
the new Cold War his most recent piece for the nation magazine distorting
Russia
on american media misrepresent prudence ocean Wayne
at the nation