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hello
and welcome to the history round table
my name is andrea defuse sultan and I'm a professor of writing here at the
american college of history studies we welcome you today and it's my pleasure to be
joined by
two of my colleagues
uh... dean
michael chessen
dean at ACHLS and our professor of history and
attorney peter malamute who is of professor law
of law at our
creating college massachusetts school of law at andover welcome both of you
thank you
we have
uh... today o a wonderful
mix of guests
um...
and we are reaching you
professor malamute on a momentous day
the first day of classes of the summer session
at the american college of history and legal studies and it's also my wife's birthday so
it's quite a momentous day for me happy birthday to your wife and many more
very good it is a momentous day
would you both
tell me and tell our audience a little bit
about the classes that you teach at the ACHLS and
professor malamute I'd like to start with you tell us about your class sure
this is my first class at achls american constitutional
history
uh... in a way it's right up my alley i teach constitutional law
uh... at law school the course will obviously differ in that it will focus
more on the history of the american constitution
then um... the the legal parameters of the constitution how it works
um... it's a lot of information to cram into an eight week period but we
start
with uh...
uh... some of the uh...
uh... a principles that uh... the constitution was based upon
uh... the students will start by reading passages from lock and montesquieu
and the like
uh... and um... sort of get into
culling out the personalities of the
people who created the constitution
and then we are going to trace the history of the constitution
from seventeen eighty seven uh... all the way through
uh... until today
fascinating I love it i'm a nerd but i love i i think that our students will
love it too michael
tell me a little bit about
the history classes that you teach here
i teach both parts of
the american history course for juniors
in our beginning year
it's american history one and two we start in the fall with the earliest colonial
settlements
both english
and their imperial rivals france and spain and
other european countries the netherlands
and we take it up to the civil war and in the spring semester we begin with the
civil war reconstruction and go up to the recent past
that's an eight credit history course so eight hours a week of history
three nights a week
and it's
taught together with a required writing course which you teach i do indeed s four
credit hours a week
for
the students or the families of prospective students who might be
watching us today and listening who
want to hear and sort of maybe want to discern if ACHLS is for them
i'd like to touch on a couple of subjects and and the first one is as a
personal one that i'd like to ask both of you
how did you come you're both men of considerable skill obviously
both in terms of both the law and history michael i know
that you've published you have too professor malaguti
what intrigues you
about the subject or subjects that you teach
and why
why teach
tell me what intrigues you what
ignites you about your subject matter why dont we start with you
professor malaguti
uh... what intrigues me about american constitutional history and american
constitutional law
uh... is it's really something that every american needs to know
um... everyone needs to know how their government runs
and the principles upon which the government was founded
um... the subject matter can be very difficult and very abstract uh... at
times
but the genius of the constitution and the the system of government that uh...
was formed
just seems to shine through all these uh... all these materials
uh... in regard to
uh...
uh... why i teach
uh...
you know i i have a feeling that teaching in a way as is like a calling
uh...
some people are good at it some are not some are drawn to it some are not
um... those who like to teach like to teach and they've
they've had this notion for quite a while
uh... i started out teaching in law school
uh...
uh... and i'm really excited about teaching in in the undergrad uh...
curriculum here
and i know that you have been
a frequent visitor to to our students here
uh... you and other professes particularly yourself and dean
larry velvel from the law school have been
frequent visitors and contributors to student conversations
and to events that we have here at the college which is
a great boon to our students we'll talk about that some more too
dr chessen how about you you are a respected author
uh... I know that you're a sought after speaker
why teaching
i grew up with history i was born in virginia
I taught history at the university of massachusetts boston for thirty two
years
and my special field is the civil war and reconstruction and
some related areas like american slavery in the old south
but there wasn't a year that went by at umass boston that i didn't also teach
one or both halves of the US
history survey
and i
sought that
and i continue to do it because i am
fascinated by the endless variety
the infinite range of characters and personalities and events the
convergence of
different forces and factors and motivations and
personal drives and
unforseen events the importance of what james macpherson calls
contingency in history
the things that no one could possibly predict and
consequences when those things happen
unexpectedly
so i begin with the puritans
and
did a field under bernard bailyn at harvard
probably the leading american colonial historian of the generation
but also did a few of them with frank freidel a
prize winning biographer of franklin d_ roosevelt and
other twentieth-century topics
so my
expertise i like to think in history is fairly
narrow in some fields indeed
but fairly broad in others
for students who are in our viewing audience
right now who are thinking about
ACHLS and
the free tuition for the coming academic year uh... via the generosity
of dean velvel and the board of trustees its been widely publicized
uh... in newspapers and will continue to be so
uh...
it's a substantivesavings for correct me if i'm wrong doctor
chesson
about ten thousand dollars that's correct and that covers
the required summer school courses one of which professor malaguti
will be teaching
it's a huge boon
beyond
uh... having the advantage of the free tuition for the junior year and beyond
the advantage and we'll talk about this a little bit
of the small class sizes and the round table discussion method
let's talk a little bit about what what a student
might bring to achls
what kind of
skills or maybe quality something maybe a little bit less concrete
would you like a student to bring to york respective classes whether that be
something like curiosity or there may be something more concrete
professor malaguit i'll start with you well i think you hit the nail on
the head
uh... an interest
uh... a huge interest in the world around them
attention to the details of what's going on in the world
students who enjoy reading
newspapers and books in uh... all kinds of uh... materials
will will thrive at an institution like this
people
mistakenly believe that history is about the past
but everytime i read it
it strikes me that it's really about the present
and that that we just failed to learn many of the lessons we should have
learned quite a while ago
so uh... it's a wonderful education
for making students
uh... capable of dealing with the here and now i that's what
they should bring their curiosity their intellectual curiosity
and their willingness
to work hard and to
roll up their sleeves and get a good classical old-fashioned education
what would you add dr chesson
we're looking for a student who were
self starters
highly motivated
who can thrive or have the potential to thrive in a
learning environment that is
entirely discussion based
no chalk and talk here at the american college
no lectures
all the courses are taught using the discussion method
and
that involves the instructor throwing questions at individual students
or asking for volunteers
uh... about questions large and small that are based on the assigned weekly
reading
it boggles my mind and i'm sure that
that both of you uh... who have
college-age
children and who really have skin in that game as well
parents and students who are sacrificing to pay upwards of forty or fifty
thousand dollars a year
uh... have students even in
beginning classes introductory class sitting in lecture halls
with two hundred or three hundred of their closest friends
and the professor is a a distant dot
down on on their visual line uh... it's not like that here
at the big research universities even umps boston often your
engagement
with the the professor is
through a teaching assistant or graduate assistant
uh... rather than the actual professor
we have no graduate assistants here we have no TA's
all the teaching
and all their office hours are conducted by faculty
it's about five steps from the classroom to
professor chessons office so you know where to find him that's true and you
know what to add on to that professor malaguti to that accessibility
not only are the professors here accessible the deans are accessible and
professors and deans from the law school show an active interest in the
lives aches students
so students who come here to aches
have the option of
uh... another great boon early admission to our creating college the
massachusetts school of law
after successful completion of their junior year that's correct
and they also have the option
to simply get
their bachelors degree in history do they not
by taking a series of courses in one of four areas
they can
complete their senior year and earn a BA in history and legal studies so they can
focus on urbanization and immigration
or military history and foreign policy
or uh... affirmative action civil rights related topics or
perhaps one of our favorites the lessons
of american history
and we can't always agree on what those lessons are
or what the meaning of history is
but we could certainly
better ourselves and our country by at least talking about it
would you tell our audience a little bit about your own
educational background and i know doctor chessen
you've spoke a little bit about yours
when you were under graduates what did you major in
um beer
its a popular major i'm told it is luckily not too much of it at the time
i was also a history major
and after college i toyed with the idea for a while of going to
graduate school and studying history
uh... at the time in the late nineteen seventies it was not a fertile
field for
jobs sure uh... so i
threw in the towel and decided to go to law school
and stumbled into an education
that i just
uh... was right for me and that i loved it seem like a continuation to a large
degree
of the liberal arts education that i had received in college
uh...
so uh...
there's a lot of history involved in law
uh... the two
uh... subjects history and law I think are just natural partners together they do
they do go hand in hand i've been learning that
it's been an education for me too and a good one observing you mike
but they do they
they partner so well
mike i don't think i need to ask this but maybe there's a uh... a couple
of surprises there were you a history major
i was indeed
never switched i knew what i wanted to do in high school you were steadfast i went to college at
william and mary majored in history uh... after navy service i went to
graduate school initially i starts at johns hopkins
and i finished and earned my phd at harvard in nineteen seventy eight and
taught as i said for more than thirty years at university of massachusetts in
boston
and i continue to do so here
this will be my
thirty fourth year teaching history
we're lucky to have you
in a our parents day
a vocational or technical education was enough wasn't it
i remember that my dad uh... and we were speaking about
our families before taping
went into the navy
and that afforded him the ability to
learn how to become an aircraft mechanic and from there he went
to technical school and
worked as a civilian for many years for the u_s_ air force
and our parents' generation
held lifelong jobs in places like raytheon and western electric and GE and
did very well
it seems like
the uh... super specialized technical or vocational
educational experiences of the past
whereby you could sort of bypass
what you referred to as a classical education peter
those seem to have gone the way of the easel and this is perhaps one of the
reasons why
an achls education is
so valuable for our students
whether they choose to go to law school or not wouldn't you say so dr chesson
absolutely
one of the things that
i found very attractive about history
is that anyone can do it
if you can read
you can study history you can read history you can read widely
deeply
in topics of interest to you
you don't need to know foreign languages you don't need to have advanced
technical training
some of the finest civil war history that is being written today and this has been
true for twenty years or more
has being written by historians who are not academic historians and
they're not p_h_d_'s
their lawyers
their foreign service officers
uh... they're retired businessman
they are
the term is used dismissivley by some
uh... they're amateurs
but the root of that word amateur somebody who does it for the love of it
and the people who love it
as i do
know know what
grabs their attention and keeps them going
you know i'm
guessing that this is true for the law school professor malaguti
i think it's even true from medical school uh... post graduate schools as
well as employers big businesses are now
asking sort of universally of
recent college grads
can you write
sure
can you argue can you hold two opposing ideas in your mind at the same time
i think those skills are valuable yes there's an unfortunate trend
uh... in this country going on
and it's not the fault of the people who are making the choices of
what kind of undergraduate degrees to pursue
uh... college has become so expensive
that our former notion of a liberal education is is dying
the idea used to be
that you went to college to become
a a good critical thinker
uh... to learn how to write and uh... how-to deal with complex material
and to become a better person
and that would naturally lead
to a profession of some sort
uh... whether you had to pursue uh... additional education or not
unfortunately
the uh...
prevailing american view of college today seems to be
at fifty grand a year my kid better be able to get a job
what we're turning out
is students who are less capable of critical thought
students who can not read and write as well as they used to be able to do
and students who are not going to be able to handle the complexities of
the business world or whatever world that choose to go into
so this i'm firmly convinced that this kind of an education
is is the best kind of an education and remains vital today
i believe that the
massachusetts school of law and correct me if i'm wrong is in its twenty third year now
uh... i'd like to it's only about the fifth or sixth year
because i'd still be done and a young man but that's about right you are you're
still young but the law school is twenty three years old
our entrance exam or at least the essay portion of it the fact that the entrance
exam
offered to aches students or potential aches students
is modeled after the law schools isn't it dr chesson yes
including their grading
grid which was designed by professor malaguti
speak to our audience a little bit about that for a typical college one of the
fifty thousand dollar a year colleges which you reference we all know who those
are
a student has to take the SAT
um...
or the ACT
and for some students particularly students who are coming from
affluent school districts or from affluent families
they can have plenty of practice in taking the SAT get special tutoring take it more
than once
even so uh... there are some students who have problems with standardized
tests
depending on their educational background
and some students who have problems with timed exams
how is
the achls entrance exam
or and or because i know that their
really closely related the msl
entrance exam different from those timed standardized tests
its relevant to what they're going to do in college
its open-ended its untimed
you know all all the standardized test proves
if you're good at taking standardized tests all it proves is that you're
good at taking standardized tests yes
um...
study after study has shown really weak correlation between
standardized tests
and
how students do in college
or in law school
I tell students all the time they have to take in most
law schools a standardized test on both ends of being a lawyer to get into law
school they have to take the lsat
and the
majority of the bar exam
is a multiple-choice exam today too
and i like to tell my students it's funny i've never practiced
multiple-choice law
um... yet to become a lawyer i have to pass a multiple choice test
our essay test
is what they're going to be doing when they come into this college and
it also is what they're gonna be doing when they go to the uh... mass school of
law or some other law school
and the curriculum and i think this is
this is a mirrored or
foreshadowed even in that entrance exam really
teaches students to think on their feet doesn't it
they have to be able to stand and deliver
and if they don't know how to do so
we'll teach them how
well i suppose i should ask
for people with concerns is there a
does the college have
a political bent
uh... is the college only for liberals or only for conservatives or
are all
types welcome
we do indeed have a political bent
it covers the spectrum
we had a student
uh... last year born in massachusetts but now lives in new hampshire who is a
wife
and mother very conservative
and a guy from charlestown who is the aid to a democratic congressman from
massachusetts
very liberal
although he wasn't that way when he started out in the projects
the two of them
had these knock-down drag-out arguments almost every night
with other students egging them on
arguing such questions as the proper definition of the american middle class
at seven thirty we took our regular break and
these two regularly went across the street to duncan donuts together
and came back and resumed where they left off hammering tongs going at it
right
for four hours
each week
but they could be friends
absolutely and once again there's a history lesson there
you know Adams and jefferson
uh... we're archenemies at one point but also best friends at one point as well
sure sure
the founding fathers uh... disagreed vehemently
on the shape and system that our government should take yes
yet they broke bread together they socialized together they lived together
you know we always i always say my motto in the classroom is be as passion as
you want but argue the issues not the personalities
yes that's true uh...
arguing
that's very good opinion is not enough your opinion
as great as it might be its the fundamental tenet of negotiation when
your a lawyer is you can't personalize it you have to
have to stick to the issues and that you can get things accomplished
the courses here are taught
seminar
style and a seminar like a court of law is a adversarial pursuit yes
so the students
some of them are surprised that not everyone agrees with
that others may be challenging their opinions some statement they just made
but it's never ad hominem
and i tell them
frequently that you should do
as adversaries do in law
strive mightily but eat and drink as friends
that's wonderful its from taming of the shrew
that's wonderful
I should have known that too
i'm going to keep that in mind
I'm sure that there are folks in our audience either prospective students or their
grandma's or neighbors or co-workers who are saying
these guys are neat I like what i hear if
there are people in our audience who liked what they hear
and want to apply to achls
how can they do it
everything they need is on our website
at www.achls.org
we are at one stiles road
suite one oh four salem new hampshire
exit two off ninety three the canobie lake exit
and we'd be happy to talk to you
schedule and interview
arrange for you to take the essay exam for entrance
all that we require is three letters of recommendation a
personal statement
uh... a grade point average of two point seven
and sixty credits from a community college
or a four year school that you may have transferred from or
you're somebody who's educational path has been long
schools you may have attended if you've been
moving about as life causes
us to do sometimes
students come because they want to complete a BA or because they want to
go on from community college we've had both categories
when your students leave lets say
ill ask you professor malaguti
tonight is your first night of class at the end of the summer session which
mike and i can tell you by experience flies by the semesters fly-by
what would you like your students to have gained
improvement in their critical thinking skills
its
i'll preface it by saying it's a joint endeavor that were
engaged in here
we feel very um... committed to the learning process
and we ask them to get committed to that learning process as well
uh... so they're certainly going to to walk away with with better critical
thinking skills
it's a process to become a good thinker
it's a discipline to become a good thinker
and
uh... it's going to help them for the rest of their lives
we hope that they're going to come away ias better writers as well as better
oral advocates
yes and you know i think that that
is a great boon
when you have different
educational components
constitutional law history writing
economics professor fagerstrom isn't with us today
working hand in hand
i know that i have benefited from partnering with your history class
just as i'm sure
the constitutional law
and economics will meld well together
we have an open house coming up
at the college on june twenty ninth
and we would welcome
curious folks to come by
they can meet deans from the law school and from the college here
professors
from
the law school and from ACHLS
and students are always welcome to sit in on classes during
the regular fall and spring semesters and the summer semesters as well it's
a super welcoming environment
i think you gentlemen uh... for for taking the time to
speak with with us and with our audience today
uh... so just to recap what you said dr. chessen our website is
www.achls.org
and potential students can find links to our
syllabi
the books we're reading
the books are students will read our academic calendar our applications
all that good stuff the entire curriculum
and the announcement of free tuition
for the twenty eleven twenty twelve academic year online syllabus
how much would that have helped us back in our day having a year tuition free
i wish i have had that
that would've been very good
thank you so much
thank you thank you
thank you for joining us today thank you professor malaguti thank you doctor
chesson
thanks for joining us at history roundtable