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I'M DAN JONES.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
THIS IS GOING TO BE AN
INTERESTING CONVERSATION.
IF TOM BARRETT EVER LEAVES THE
OFFICE OF MAYOR OF MILWAUKEE,
WHO WOULD BE THE HEIR APPARENT
AND WHAT WOULD MILWAUKEE NEED IN
THE NEXT MAYOR?
WE'LL ALSO TALK ABOUT THE
POSSIBILITY OF ILLINOIS-STYLE
TOLL ROADS IN WISCONSIN.
AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT WISCONSIN
CONGRESSMAN JIM SENSENBRENNER
AND HIS OPINION THAT FLAGS
SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FLOWN AT
HALF-STAFF FOR NELSON MANDELLA.
LET ME INTRODUCE EVERYONE.
YOU KNOW JOEL MCNALLY, LONGTIME
NEWSPAPER COLUMNIST.
KEVIN FISCHER, FORMER BROADCAST
JOURNALIST AND LONGTIME
POLITICAL ANALYST.
DENISE CALLAWAY, COMMUNICATIONS
AND PUBLIC RELATIONS
PROFESSIONAL.
AND GERARD RANDALL, EDUCATION
CONSULTANT AND LOCAL JOB
CREATION EXPERT.
RICK HOROWITZ WILL BE ALONG WITH
COMMENTARY AT THE END OF THE
SHOW.
LET'S FIRST TALK ABOUT MILWAUKEE
MAYOR TOM BARRETT.
HE COLLAPSES AFTER A WEEKEND RUN
AND IS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL
WHERE ANGIOPLASTY IS PERFORMED
TO UNPLUG A COUPLE OF CLOGGED
HEART ARTERIES.
HE'S FINE.
IT WAS CAUGHT EARLY.
HE'S BACK AT WORK.
BUT SOME ARE NOW WONDERING IF
BARRETT MADE THE DECISION NOT TO
RUN FOR REELECTION, WHO WOULD BE
THE HEIR APPARENT AND WHY?
>> DO YOU WANT TO GO TO GERARD
FIRST?
>> THAT'S OK.
I'LL SAVE YOU THUNDER.
>> I'LL SAVE YOU SOME TIME.
FIRST OF ALL, I KNOW THE MAYOR
WATCHES IT PROGRAM, SO GLAD TO
SEE YOU'RE BACK IN ACTION AND
QUICK RECOVERY.
NOW WHAT WAS YOUR QUESTION 70 --
>> QUESTION?
>> WHO WOULD BE THE HEIR
APPARENT.
>> IF IT'S AN OPEN SEAT, KATIE
BAR THE DOOR, EVERYONE IS
RUNNING AND I THINK YOU DO HAVE
SOME SUSPECTS THAT HAVE BEEN
TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST.
ALDERMAN WILLIE HINES, I BELIEVE
CONGRESSWOMAN GWEN MOORE, STATE
SENATOR LENA TAYLOR, MAYBE SOME
OTHER ALDERMEN LIKE BOB DONOVAN
WHO HAS MADE A NAME BEING
CRITICAL OF THE MAYOR AND THE
POLICE DEPARTMENT.
MAYBE SOME OTHER STATE
LEGISLATORS LIKE TIM CARPENTER,
SO I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SAY
THAT THERE WOULD BE ANY
FRONT-RUNNER, BUT AS LONG AS TOM
BARRETT HAS THE OFFICE, I MEAN,
IT'S HIS TO KEEP.
HE NEVER SEEMS TO HAVE ANY
STALWART OPPONENT, CERTAINLY NOT
ONE WITH BIG NAME RECOGNITION OR
HEAVY POCKETS.
SO IF HE DECIDES NOT TO RUN,
THERE WILL BE ALL KINDS OF
PEOPLE THAT WILL WANT THAT JOB
AND I THINK WHAT YOU WANT IN THE
NEXT MAYOR, YOU'D WANT IN ANY
MAYOR, SOMEONE WHO WOULD
CONCENTRATE ON THE ECONOMY, ON
GETTING THAT UNEMPLOYMENT RATE
DOWN ESPECIALLY AMONG
AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN THIS CITY,
CREATING JOBS AND MAKING THE
CITY MORE ATTRACTIVE.
RIGHT NOW, I THINK THAT THE --
THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION THAT
MILWAUKEE IS NOT SAFE, IT'S NOT
A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE, IT'S NOT
THE GREATEST PLACE TO WORK.
I THINK IT NEEDS SOME IMAGE
ADJUSTING AND THE NEXT MAYOR
NEEDS TO WORK ON THAT.
>> DENISE, MOST PEOPLE SAY THE
JOB IS BARRETT'S IF HE WANTS IT,
HE COULD BE IN THERE FOR THE
NEXT DECADE OR 15 YEARS, BUT IF
HE SAID I DON'T WANT THIS JOB
ANYMORE IN THE THE NEAR FUTURE
AND HE GOT INTO THE RACE,
WOULDN'T DAVID CLARKE BE THE
IMMEDIATE FAVORITE?
>> FOR SOME PEOPLE, I'M SURE,
BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETIMES
IT'S A LOT EASIER TO THROW
STONES THAN IT IS TO ACTUALLY
BUILD A HOUSE, SO I THINK DAVID
CLARKE IS SOMEONE WHO MIGHT BE
INTERESTED, BUT I THINK HE'S GOT
A BULLY PULPIT AS SHERIFF THAT
YOU DON'T HAVE AS MAYOR.
AS MAYOR, NOT TO BE FUNNY ABOUT
IT, BUT BEING MAYOR OF A
METROPOLITAN CITY, IS A BIG JOB
AND IT'S NOT ENOUGH AS A MAYOR
TO SAY WHAT YOU WON'T DO OR WHAT
YOU DON'T LIKE.
YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN
TO BE ABLE TO BRING ABOUT SOME
OF THE CHANGES THAT KEVIN
MENTIONED.
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH, THAT
HAVE TO BE A PRIORITY.
FOR THE NEXT PERSON WHO RUNS FOR
MAYOR AND WHO IS ELECTED MAYOR,
WHETHER IT'S TOM BARRETT OR
SOMEBODY ELSE.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE GOT TO FIGURE
OUT A WAY TO BRING SOME JOBS TO
THIS COMMUNITY.
I KNOW THE MAYOR HAS MADE
SOME -- HAD MADE SOME
SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS, THERE WERE
SOME THINGS THAT HAPPENED AT THE
STATE LEVEL THAT CAUSED US TO
TAKE SOME STEPS BACK, BUT WE'VE
GOT TO GET, NO PUN INTENDED,
WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK ON TRACK,
AND REALLY WORK TO DO THAT WORK.
I THINK THAT ALL OF THE
INDIVIDUALS WHO KEVIN MENTIONED
ARE PEOPLE WHO CERTAINLY WOULD
BE INTERESTING CANDIDATES, AND
SEVERAL OF THEM HAVE NOT ONLY
MENTIONED THAT THEY ARE
INTERESTED, YOU KNOW, SOME OF
THEM HAVE REALLY BEEN WORKING
VERY HARD IN LEADERSHIP
POSITIONS AROUND THE CITY TO PUT
THEMSELVES IN POSITION TO BE THE
NEXT MAYOR, AS MAYOR BARRETT
SHOULD -- IF MAYOR BARRETT
DECIDES HE IS NOT GOING TO RUN,
BUT AS KEVIN MENTIONED, THAT THE
MAYOR IS DOING WELL, HE'S WELL
ON THE ROAD TO RECOVERY, AND YOU
KNOW, RIGHT NOW, I MEAN, THAT'S
THE IMPORTANT THING.
WE'VE GOT A MAYOR WHO IS -- HAD
A HEALTH SCARE AND IS HEALTHY
AND WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR THAT, BUT
WHOEVER IS GOING TO EITHER
CONTINUE TO BE MAYOR OR MIGHT
DECIDE TO RUN FOR MAYOR, THIS
JOB SCENE IS SOMETHING THAT HAS
TO BE FIGURED OUT, BECAUSE IT
INFLUENCES THE LEVEL OF POVERTY
THAT WE HAVE IN THIS CITY
WITHOUT HAVING FAMILY-SUPPORTING
JOBS FOR ENOUGH PEOPLE,
INFLUENCES EVERYTHING.
IT INFLUENCES SCHOOLS, IT
INFLUENCES CRIME, IT INFLUENCES
HOUSING STOCK.
IT IS THE NUMBER ONE ITEM THAT
WE'VE GOT TO WORK ON.
>> AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO THROW
THE NAME OF MICHAEL MURPHY, THE
WELL RESPECTED AND LONGEST
SERVING ALDERMAN IN THE HAT AS
WELL.
>> I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
SEVEN SERIOUS CANDIDATES WHO
WILL FORM EXPLORATORY COMMITTEES
AND TRY TO RACE SOME MONEY TO
TAKE STOCK OF WHETHER OR NOT
THEY COULD MAKE -- THEY COULD
WIN THE RACE, BUT I DO BELIEVE
THE TWO FRONT-RUNNERS, BECAUSE
THEY WOULD PULL FROM DIFFERENT
IDEOLOGICAL POPULATIONS WOULD BE
THE MAYOR AND THE SHERIFF.
I'M SORRY, THE COMMON COUNCIL
PRESIDENT, WILLIE HINES AND
SHERIFF DAVID CLARKE.
THOSE ARE THE TWO THAT I THINK
WOULD BE THE TWO THAT WOULD COME
OUT OF A PACKED PRIMARY.
YOU KNOW, I TOO AM HAPPY THAT IT
WAS JUST A SCARE FOR THE MAYOR
THAT HE WAS ABLE TO ADDRESS
SUCCESSFULLY WITH ANGIOPLASTY,
BUT I DO BELIEVE AND THIS IS
AFTER I JUST GOT MY TAX BILL THE
OTHER DAY AND ENDURED TWO FLAT
TIRES IN THE LAST TWO DAYS
BECAUSE OF POTHOLES IN THE
STREETS.
SO I WASN'T THAT MUCH OF A FAN
OF THE MAYOR'S LEADERSHIP IN THE
PAST AND I CERTAINLY WASN'T
AFTER THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS,
BECAUSE ONE, THE TAX BILL LED ME
TO ASK THE QUESTION, WHAT AM I
GETTING FOR MY MONEY?
AND THE POTHOLES REMINDED ME
THAT WHATEVER I'M GETTING, IT'S
INSUFFICIENT.
WE NEED NEW VISION, WE NEED NEW
ENERGY, IN THIS COMMUNITY TO
ADDRESS ALL THOSE THINGS THAT
BOTH KEVIN AND DENISE HAVE
TALKED ABOUT AS BEING LACKING IN
TERMS OF LEADERSHIP AND
IMPLEMENTATION IN THIS TOWN.
I DO THINK THERE IS A BATCH OF
NEW YOUNG LEADERS ON THE HORIZON
THAT ARE STARTING TO SPEAK TO
SOME OF THESE THINGS.
THEY'RE STARTING TO GATHER
AROUND SOME IDEAS THAT ULTIMATE
LY THERE'S GOING TO BE A
LOT MORE PEOPLE, A BROADER GROUP
OF FOLK WHO WILL CONVERGE AROUND
AND GIVE SOME SUPPORT TO AND I
THINK THEY NEED A SENIOR
STATESMAN THAT CAN HELP THEM
NAVIGATE SOME OF THE TOUGH
POLITICAL WATERS TO PUT SOME OF
THOSE IDEAS INTO PLAY.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THE MAYOR
IS THAT PERSON.
>> AND YOU WOULD HAVE, AS LONG
AS WE'RE SPECULATE, YOU WOULD
HAVE TO THROW THE NAME OF MARINA
DIMITRIJEVIC INTO THE MIX.
>> SHE'S GOING DONE CLIMBING
OVER ANY BODY SHE CAN CLIMB OVER
TO RUN FOR OFFICE, BUT LIKE
EVERYONE HAS SAID, I EXPECT TOM
BARRETT TO BE THE MAYOR FOR A
LONG TIME.
>> I DIDN'T SAY THAT.
>> WELL, I SAID THAT.
>> YES.
>> BUT GOING TO WHAT GERARD JUST
SAID, I DO AGREE THAT THERE IS
SOME NEW BLACK LEADERSHIP IN
THIS COMMUNITY THAT I AM
EXTREMELY IMPRESSED WITH, AND I
BELIEVE BY THE TIME THAT THE
SEAT IS OPEN, SOMEONE LIKE
MANDELA BARNES OR DAVID BOWEN OR
SOME OF THE OTHER NEW LEADERS, I
BELIEVE IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR
HER HEALTH PROBLEMS, TAMARA
GRIGSBY WOULD HAVE BEEN AN
OUTSTANDING LEADER IN THIS
COMMUNITY FOR A LONG TIME, AND I
THINK THE NEXT MAYOR WILL BE AN
AFRICAN-AMERICAN.
I DO NOT BELIEVE IT IT WILL BE
DAVID CLARKE.
I BELIEVE HE DRAWS MOST OF HIS
SUPPORT FROM THE SUBURBS, NOT
FROM THE CITY, BECAUSE HE'S THE
DARLING OF RIGHT WING TALK
RADIO, AND HE DID IN FACT RUN
FOR MAYOR OF COURSE, WHEN THE
LAST TIME THE JOB WAS OPEN.
AND HE DIDN'T EVEN FINISH, YOU
KNOW, TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE
PRIMARY.
BUT HE SEEMS TO THINK THAT HE,
YOU KNOW, MERITS ANY JOB, YOU
KNOW, THAT'S AVAILABLE AND I
THINK PEOPLE ARE GETTING PRETTY
TIRED OF HIM.
>> AS CARS BECOME MORE FUEL
EFFICIENT, PEOPLE ARE BUYING
LESS GAS, AND THAT HAS A HUGE
EFFECT ON HOW MUCH THE STATE
COLLECTS IN GAS TAXES, WHICH IT
THEN USES TO BOTH BUILD AND
REPAIR ROADS AND HIGHWAYS.
ALL ACROSS WISCONSIN.
GOVERNOR WALKER HAS ASKED HIS
SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION TO
COME UP WITH A SUGGESTION ON A
MORE RELIABLE WAY TO GET THE
MONEY.
A HIGHER GAS TAX WAS SUGGESTED,
AND HE REJECTED ONCE BEFORE.
THAT HAS SOME PEOPLE WONDERING
IF WISCONSIN IS GETTING CLOSER
TO INSTALLING TOLLWAYS TO
COLLECT MONEY THAT WAY?
DO YOU THINK THAT'S A
POSSIBILITY?
>> I DON'T THINK THERE'S THE
POLITICAL WILL TO SERIOUSLY
PROPOSE THAT IDEA.
EVEN AS A TRIAL BALLOON.
AND I THINK MOST OF THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN HATES THE IDEA.
ABOUT A YEAR AGO THIS TIME, I
WAS FILLING IN FOR MARK BELLING
OVER AT WISN AND I BROKE THE
STORY ABOUT A COMMISSION THAT
HAD BEEN APPOINTED BY THE
GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE TO
LOOK IN TO THIS VERY, VERY ISSUE
ABOUT HOW DO WE PAY FOR OUR
ROADS SINCE THE TRANSPORTATION
FUND HAD BEEN RATED -- RAIDED
THREE TIMES BY GOVERNOR DOYLE TO
USE FOR OTHER NONTRANSPORTATION
ITEMS.
THERE'S A SHORTFALL IN THE
TRANSPORTATION BUDGET AND THE
GAS TAX SIMPLY IS NOT SUFFICIENT
ENOUGH TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING WE
WANT TO DO.
AND THE COMMISSION CAME UP WITH
SUCH CRAZY IDEAS, INCLUDING
RAISING THE GAS TAX, WHICH IS
ALREADY ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN
THE NATION.
ALL KINDS OF OTHER FEES, RAISING
THE REGISTRATION FEE, CHARGING A
FEE BASED ON HOW MANY MILES YOU
DRIVE AND TOLL ROADS.
IT WAS SUCH A HODGEPODGE OF
GOOFY SUGGESTIONS THAT IT WAS
D.O.A., IT WAS THROWN INTO THE
GARBAGE SOON AFTER IT WAS
PROPOSED, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT
THE -- WHAT THE NOTION IS, BUT
IF YOU'RE GOING TO RAISE A WHOLE
BUNCH OF TAXES AND FEES, THEN
YOU BETTER, AS BEING SUGGESTED
NOW, COME UP WITH AS PART OF THE
PACKAGE, TAX REFORM BOTH INCOME
AND SALES TAX SO THAT IF YOU'RE
GOING TO STICK IT TO DRIVERS AND
MOTORISTS AND MAKE THEM PAY MORE
TO DRIVE THEIR VEHICLES ON
WISCONSIN ROADWAYS, THEN YOU GOT
TO GIVE THEM A BREAK SOMEWHERE
ELSE.
>> EVERY SINGLE TIME I DRIVE TO
ILLINOIS AND EVERY TIME I'VE
DRIVEN THERE FOR YEARS AND GO
THROUGH THE TOLLWAYS, I'VE
ALWAYS THOUGHT, THIS SEEMS LIKE
SUCH A LOGICAL WAY TO RAISE
MONEY FOR ROADS.
>> IT DOESN'T SEEM LOGICAL TO ME
AND IT'S ONE OF THE FEW TIMES I
AGREE WITH KEVIN.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER -- I
DON'T THINK THAT THE PEOPLE IN
WISCONSIN WOULD TOLERATE IT, I
REALLY DON'T.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHO DRIVE TO
ILLINOIS ARE OFFENDED BY IT
AND -- NOW HERE'S THE THING.
THE FACT THAT SCOTT WALKER IS
LOOKING FOR SOME MECHANISM TO
FUND ROADS, THERE WAS A
MECHANISM TO FUND ROADS THAT
SCOTT WALKER KILLED.
IT WAS IN FACT A FORMULA THAT
WOULD RAISE THE GAS TAX AS IT
NEEDED TO BE RAISED SO THAT THE
LEGISLATURE WOULDN'T HAVE TO
VOTE ON A RAISE EVERY YEAR AND
WE KNOW, BUT WITH THIS, YOU
KNOW, TAX CUT POLITICS, THAT
POLITICS IN WISCONSIN, YOU
CAN'T -- YOU CAN'T PASS, YOU
KNOW, HIGHER FEES OR HIGHER
TAXES ON ANYTHING.
SO ALL YOU CAN DO IS CUT.
IF YOU GET RID OF THAT AUTOMATIC
MECHANISM, WHICH WAS THERE.
BUT THE POINT TO USING THE GAS
TAX TO FUND ROADS IS IT'S A FAIR
WAY, BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO USE
THE ROADS THE MOST MAKE THEM
REQUIRE THE MOST MAINTENANCE AND
CREATE THE MOST DETERIORATION
ACTUALLY END UP PAYING MORE
BECAUSE THEY USE MORE GASOLINE.
AND THAT IS -- THAT IS TO ME
SUCH A LOGICAL WARBIER SIDES IT
HAS THIS OTHER ADVANTAGE THAT AS
THE PRICE OF GASOLINE GOES UP,
PEOPLE DRIVE LESS AND WE KNOW
THAT'S GOOD TOO.
WE KNOW THAT'S GOOD FOR THE
ENVIRONMENT, WE KNOW THAT'S GOOD
FOR THE COMMUNITIES, AND WE
DON'T NEED TO SPEND ALL OUR
MONEY ON ROADS ALL THE TIME, WE
CAN ACTUALLY PUT SOME MONEY INTO
MASS TRANSIT, SO WE HAD -- WE
HAD A PERFECTLY GOOD MECHANISM
THAT AS A LEGISLATOR, SCOTT
WALKER KILLED, AND I DON'T -- I
AGREE, I DON'T THINK HE CAN
RAISE THE GAS TAX ANYMORE,
BECAUSE POLITICIANS ARE
CAMPAIGNING LEFT AND RIGHT ABOUT
HOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO RAISE
FINEST BEER TAXES TO PAY FOR
ANYTHING AND THAT'S ABSURD.
ALL YOU CAN DO IS CONTINUE TO
HAVE DETERIORATION IF YOU WON'T
EVER PAY FOR ANYTHING.
>> I HATE TO SPOIL THIS MOMENT,
WHEN WE'RE IN SUCH -- WE'RE SO
SYMPATICO.
BUT TIM CARPENTER PROPOSED
KILLING THE AUTOMATIC GAS TAX.
AND A LOT OF DEMOCRATS AND
REPUBLICANS FAVORED TIM
CARPENTER'S IDEA.
>> INCLUDING SCOTT WALKER.
>> IF WALKER IS NOT GOING TO
RAISE THE GAS TAX AND NOBODY
EXPECTS HE WOULD, AND THE MONEY
IS NOT GOING TO FALL FROM
HEAVEN, THAT LEAVES WHAT OTHER
OPTIONS?
>> WELL, ONE OPTION, WE CAN
THANK FORMER STATE
REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN SUYIE FOR
KEEPING THE TOLL ALIVE.
ILLINOIS HAS A TOLL.
THANK GOD MINNESOTA AND
WISCONSIN DON'T.
I THINK THAT TOLL IS GETTING
MORE AND MORE TRACTION ONLY
BECAUSE THE USER THAT MOST
PEOPLE THINK WILL BE HIT HARDEST
BY IT ARE TRUCKERS, BUT THE
TRUCKERS IN EXCHANGE ARE SAYING
THEY WANT A FAST LANE, SO THE
AVERAGE USER FOR THE HIGHWAY
SYSTEM WOULD END UP STUCK WITH
SUBSTANDARD ROADWAYS, BECAUSE I
DON'T THINK ALL OF THEM WOULD
GET THE SAME PRIORITY FOR REPAIR
AND MAINTENANCE.
THIS WHOLE THING OF HOW TO COME
ABOUT PAYING FOR ROADS WITH A
DEDICATED FEE OR A DEDICATED
TAX, I THINK IS GOING TO GET A
LOT MORE ATTENTION AFTER THE
NEXT ELECTION, AFTER THE NEXT
STATE ELECTION.
I DON'T THINK THAT ANYTHING IS
GOING TO BE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED
NOW, AND I THINK ANY OF THE
IDEAS THAT THE GOVERNOR'S STAFF
PUT OUT ON THE TABLE, PEOPLE ARE
GOING TO TAKE POT SHOTS AT IT,
AND THAT WILL, I THINK, BE A
SERIES OF TRIAL BALLOONS THAT
ARE JUST GOING TO GET SHOT DOWN
WITH NO ONE REALLY TAKING
SERIOUSLY MOST OF THOSE IDEAS
THAT ARE OFFERED UP.
>>
>> ALL RIGHT, WE HAVE TO MOVE TO
THE NEXT SUBJECT.
CONGRESSMAN JIM SENSENBRENNER
GRABBED A FEW HEADLINES THE
OTHER DAY WHEN HE SUGGESTED THAT
AMERICAN FLAGS SHOULD NOT BE
FLOWN AT HALF-STAFF IN MEMORY OF
NELSON MANDELLA.
SENSENBRENNER SAID THAT WHILE
MANDELA WAS A GREAT MAN WHO
SHOULD BE ADMIRED AND REVERED,
FLYING THE U.S. FLAG AT
HALF-STAFF SHOULD BE A MEMORIAL
HONOR, RESERVED FOR UNITED
STATES CITIZENS.
IS THAT INSENSITIVE AND RACIST,
OR DOES HE HAVE A GOOD POINT?
>> WELL, IT'S AN ACCURATE
STATEMENT.
I DON'T RECALL CONGRESSMAN
SENSENBRENNER HAVING CONCERNS
ABOUT THAT, WHEN RONALD REAGAN
DECIDED THAT HE WAS GOING TO FLY
THE FLAG AT HALF-STAFF FOR ANWR
SADAT WHEN HE WAS KILLED.
GEORGE BUSH ALSO MADE THE
DECISION WITH JOHN PAUL PASSED
AWAY, WHEN HE DIED, TO FLY THE
FLAGS AT HALF-STAFF.
IF WE ARE A COUNTRY, AND WE ARE,
THAT EMBRACES OUR INTERNATIONAL
NEIGHBORS, THAT RECOGNIZES THAT
THE EXTRAORDINARY, NOT THE
EVERYDAY, OR THE COMMONPLACE,
BUT THE EXTRAORDINARY
INDIVIDUALS WHO SHAPE OUR WORLD
AND CHANGE OUR WORLD, WHO HAVE
BEEN AN INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED
STATES, HAPPEN TO RESIDE IN
ANOTHER COUNTRY, IT IS A SIGN OF
RESPECT.
I DON'T THINK IT'S A SIGN OF
RACISM.
I WOULD NOT SUGGEST THAT HIS
STATEMENTS MAKE HIM A RACIST OR
THEY'RE RACIST STATEMENTS IN ANY
WAY.
I JUST THINK THEY'RE UNINFORMED,
AND REALLY NOT BASED WITH AN
AWARENESS OF THE FACTS ABOUT THE
FACTS THAT THIS HAS BEEN
COMMONPLACE, THAT THE PAST FOUR
PRESIDENTS HAVE DONE THAT WITH
SOME BIT OF REGULARITY WHEN
SIGNIFICANT WORLD LEADERS HAVE
PASSED AWAY.
TO ME, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, IT'S
JUST ANOTHER SIGN IF PRESIDENT
OBAMA DOES SOMETHING, ANYTHING
AT ALL, THAT MIGHT SOMEWHAT BE
CONTROVERSIAL, HE'S GOING TO BE
CRITICIZED BY REPUBLICANS FOR
IT.
SO TO ME, IT WAS JUST YET
ANOTHER -- ANOTHER WAY, ANOTHER
SLAP THAT REPUBLICANS HAD
WITHOUT ACTUALLY IN THIS CASE
KNOWING THE FACTS AND KNOWING
THAT REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC
PRESIDENTS FOR THE PAST FOUR
PRESIDENTS HAVE DONE THIS WHEN
WORLD LEADERS OF THIS MAGNITUDE
HAVE PASSED AWAY.
IT'S NOTHING.
>> BUT KEVIN, SENSENBRENNER HAS
BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.
I CAN'T BELIEVE HE DOESN'T FOE
WHAT THE HISTORY IS.
>> I DON'T CONDEMN HIM OR
CRITICIZE HIM FOR BEING
PASSIONATE ON THAT VIEW, FOR
BEING PRO-AMERICAN FLAG, BUT --
>> JUST BE CONSISTENT ON IT.
>> BUT HE WAS WRONG AND AS SCOTT
WALKER SAID, I RESPECTFULLY
DISAGREE WITH CONGRESSMAN
SENSENBRENNER.
I'M GOING TO DO SOMETHING I'VE
NEVER DONE IN THE HISTORY OF
THIS PROGRAM AND GO TO NOTES
BRIEFLY, OK.
I'VE GOT TWO LINES HERE FROM THE
UNITED STATES FLAG CODE.
ALL RIGHT?
IF I MAY --
>> I READ IT TOO.
>> BY ORDER OF THE PRESIDENT,
THE FLAG SHALL BE FLOWN AT
HALF-STAFF UPON THE DEATH OF
PRINCIPALS FIGURES OF THE UNITED
STATES GOVERNMENT AND THE
GOVERNOR OF STATE, TERRITORY, OR
POSSESSION AS A MARK OF RESPECT
TO THEIR MEMORY.
IT CONTINUES.
IN THE EVENT OF THE DEATH OF
OTHER OFFICIALS, OR FOREIGN
DIGNITARIES, THE FLAG IS TO BE
DISPLAYED AT HALF-STAFF
ACCORDING TO PRESIDENTIAL
INSTRUCTIONS OR ORDERS, SO I
THINK PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS
CORRECT, I THINK THIS IS A
WORTHY HONOR TO FLY THE FLAG AT
HALF-STAFF.
I DON'T KNOW THAT SENSENBRENNER,
WHO I KNOW PERSONALLY, AND
RESPECT, I DON'T THINK THAT HE
WAS MISINFORMED.
THIS IS JUST HIS PASSION AND
BELIEF, AND I'M NOT GOING TO
CRITICIZE HIM FOR IT.
>> WAS HE BEING PASSIONATE OR
PLAYING TO HIS AUDIENCE?
>> HE WAS PLAYING TO HIS
AUDIENCE AND I WAS CRITICIZED
LAST WEEK FOR MENTIONING THAT
REPUBLICANS IN THIS COUNTRY USED
HATRED AGAINST NELSON MANDELA AS
PART OF THEIR POLITICAL WHIPPING
UP THEIR AUDIENCES.
AND THEN IT WAS PROVEN OVER THIS
PAST WEEK WHEN TWO REPUBLICANS
NEWT GINGRICH AND TED CRUZ OF
ALL PEOPLE, PAID TRIBUTE TO
NELSON MANDELA AND WERE DELUGED
WITH HATRED FROM THEIR
REPUBLICAN CONSTITUENTS.
AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE
RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS.
IT WAS TRUE THAT RONALD REAGAN
VETOED RESOLUTION BY THE U.S.
CONGRESS TO FIRST OF ALL, ASK
THAT APARTHEID -- URGED THAT
APARTHEID BE ELIMINATED, AND
SECOND, THAT NELSON MANDELA
SHOULD BE RELEASED FROM PRISON
AND RONALD REAGAN BE TOTED AND
THE U.S. CONGRESS INCLUDING MANY
REPUBLICANS OVERRODE RONALD
REAGAN'S VETO.
BUT THERE WERE OTHER REPUBLICANS
WHO HAVE USED IT, INCLUDING A
FORMER VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES, JUST RECENTLY
PASSED VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES, WHO, WHEN HE WAS
RUNNING FOR THE VICE-PRESIDENCY,
SAID HE DID NOT REGRET AT ALL
VOTING AGAINST FREEING MANDELA
AND ENDING APARTHEID, AND IF
REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO USE
RACIST LANGUAGE AND RACIST
EMOTIONS TO STIR UP PEOPLE TO
SUPPORT THEIR PARTY, THEY'RE
GOING TO HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT,
AND THAT'S WHAT SENSENBRENNER
WAS DOING.
HE WAS WALKING A VERY NARROW
LINE SAYING, YOU KNOW, I
CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, ADMIRE
NELSON MANDELA, BUT ON THE OTHER
HAND, WE SHOULDN'T HONOR HIM BY
LOWERING THE FLAG.
>> IT'S REALLY SAD THAT EVEN ON
TOPICS WHERE WE'RE PRAISING
NELSON MANDELA THAT ONE MEMBER
OF THIS PANEL HAS TO PLAY THE
RACE CARD OVER AND OVER AND OVER
.
>> YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN, IS YOUR
PARTY FILLED WITH HATRED?
>> NO AND I THINK JOEL, YOU
PAINT WITH A PRETTY BROAD BRUSH,
REPUBLICANS AS RACIST.
THEY'RE NOT COLLECTIVELY, EVEN
THOUGH YOU CAN FIND SOME WHO
INDIVIDUALLY MIGHT BE
OPPORTUNISTS AND THOSE WHO WOULD
TAKE A LOOK AND SAY, WELL, YOU
KNOW, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO
JUST DON'T LIKE FORTUNATES, THEY
DON'T -- FOREIGN NATIONALS, THEY
DON'T LIKE INDIVIDUAL LEADERS
AND THEY HAVE GOOD REASON FOR
ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
I TOOK A LOOK AT THE FLAG CODE
AS KEVIN DID.
I WILL SAY THIS MUCH.
THE PRESIDENT IS GIVEN BROAD
BROAD LATITUDE AS TO WHO THIS
COUNTRY WILL SHOW RESPECT TO AT
THE TIME OF THEIR DEATH.
UNFORTUNATELY, AS PRESCRIPTIVE
AS THAT CODE IS ON OTHER THINGS,
THEY DON'T SET ANY KIND OF
PRESCRIPTION FOR WHAT THE
PRESIDENT CAN DO IN HONORING
EITHER PEOPLE HERE LOCALLY OR
PEOPLE ABROAD.
AND I'M NOT -- I'M NOT SAYING
THAT THE PRESIDENT OUGHT NOT
HAVE THAT POWER, BUT JUST AS, IF
YOU READ THAT CODE, IT IS SO
PRESCRIPTIVE ON SOME THINGS, AND
VERY LITTLE SAID ABOUT THAT
POWER OF THE PRESIDENT, I THINK
SENSENBRENNER IS RIGHT, MAYBE,
MAYBE THERE OUGHT TO BE SOME
PRESCRIPTIONS THERE.
WHO YOU HONOR AND ESPECIALLY IF
THEY'RE FOREIGN NATIONALS.
>> YOU KNOW THE THING ABOUT IT
IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
AND --
>> WE WERE TALKING ABOUT NELSON
MANDELA.
>> NO, NO.
LET SAY THIS.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES IS ELECTED BY A MAJORITY
OF THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY.
>> SOMETIMES.
>> IN THIS CASE --
>> WELL, IF WE WANT TO GO BACK
TO BUSH VERSUS GORE.
IN THIS CASE, I THINK THE
PRESIDENT SHOULD HAVE THAT
LATITUDE AS SOMEONE WHO IS DULY
ELECTED BY CITIZENS OF THIS
COUNTRY TO HAVE THAT LATITUDE
AND TRUST TO MAKE THAT DECISION.
>> OK.
A FEW MORE THOUGHTS NOW ABOUT
MANDELA'S PASSING.
RICK HOROWITZ DIDN'T STAY UP ALL
NIGHT TO WATCH THE PROCEEDINGS
LIVE FROM JOHANNESBURG.
BUT HE CAUGHT ENOUGH OF THE
REPLAYS AND THE HIGHLIGHTS TO
KNOW HE WAS WITNESSING SOMETHING
SPECIAL.
OF COURSE, "SPECIAL" IS IN THE
EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
RICK?
>> TALK ABOUT AN EASY CALL.
TALK ABOUT A NO-BRAINER.
NELSON MANDELLA'S MEMORIAL
SERVICE, HOW DO YOU REACT TO IT
IT?
ON THIS SIDE, YOU'VE GOT THE MAN
HIMSELF, THE LIFE BEING
REMEMBERED AND CELEBRATED IN A
STADIUM FILLED WITH THOUSANDS OF
HIS COUNTRYMEN AND HUNDREDS OF
LEADERS FROM AROUND THE WORLD.
AN EXTRAORDINARY, TOTALLY
IMPLAUSIBLE LIFE, A FARM BOY, A
FREEDOM FIGHTER, A
REVOLUTIONARY, A PRISONER OF THE
STATE.
AND THEN FATHER OF HIS COUNTRY,
THE NEW MULTIRACIAL, DEMOCRATIC
SOUTH AFRICA.
SO YOU COULD LOOK AT IT THAT
WAY.
OR YOU COULD FOCUS ON PRESIDENT
OBAMA'S EULOGY, HIS REMINDER
THAT MANDELA, EVEN MANDELA, WAS
NOT A PERFECT MAN.
THAT NONE OF US IS PERFECT.
BUT THAT WE'RE ALL CALLED
NONETHELESS TO WORK FOR A MORE
PERFECT WORLD.
THAT WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO
GET OFF THE SIDELINES, TO REJECT
COMPLACENCY AND CYNICISM, TO
PRACTICE THE PRINCIPLES WE CLAIM
TO POSSESS, TO STAND AGAINST
INEQUALITY, AGAINST POVERTY, AND
DISEASE.
A CALL TO BATTLE, SURE.
BUT ALSO A CALL TO SOMEHOW GET
PAST THE DIVISIONS AND THE
BITTERNESS, TO MAKE COMMON
PURPOSE.
SO YOU COULD LOOK AT IT THAT
WAY.
YOU COULD EVEN NOTICE, IF YOU'RE
SO INCLINED, THAT OF ALL THE
WORLD LEADERS WHO SPOKE, THE ONE
WHO GOT THE LOUDEST CHEERS WAS
OURS.
KIND OF NICE WHEN YOU THINK
ABOUT IT.
SO THAT'S ALL ON ONE SIDE.
OR YOU COULD GET APOCALYPTIC
ABOUT A HANDSHAKE.
YOU COULD DECIDE THAT NONE OF
THAT OTHER STUFF MATTERED.
THAT THE ONLY THING THAT
MATTERED WAS THAT, ON HIS WAY TO
THE PODIUM, PRESIDENT OBAMA CAME
FACE-TO-FACE WITH THE LEADER OF
CUBA, RAUL CASTRO, AND THEY
SHOOK HANDS.
THEY SHOOK HANDS.
BETRAYAL!
SELLOUT!
HOW DARE HE?
FORGET PROTOCOL.
FORGET NORMAL CIVILITY.
FORGET THAT THE MAN WHOSE LIFE
THEY WERE CELEBRATING WAS FAMOUS
FOR REACHING OUT TO HIS ENEMIES,
EVEN TO HIS JAILERS.
AND OF COURSE, FORGET THE
DECADES OF PICTURES OF OTHER
PROMINENT AMERICANS, DEMOCRATS
AND REPUBLICANS, PRESIDENTS AND
FUTURE PRESIDENTS AND WANNABE
PRESIDENTS, SHAKING HANDS WITH
TYRANTS EVERY BIT AS DESPICABLE
AS RAUL CASTRO.
MAO!
QADDAFI!
SADDAM HUSSEIN!
EVEN FIDEL CASTRO!
BUT THIS WAS DIFFERENT.
THIS WAS BARACK OBAMA SHAKING
HANDS.
TIME TO DIAL UP THE OUTRAGE.
SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT KIND OF
PERSON WOULD REACT THAT WAY?
I ALREADY TOLD YOU, A
NO-BRAINER.
>> THANKS RICK.
STAY WARM AN ENJOY THE REST OF
YOUR WEEKEND.