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SERVICES.
>> ARE uPULLTABS A BUST?
ONE LAWMAKER HAS ANOTHER
STADIUM FUNDING OPTION, AND
THE NEW SILVER STANDARDS ARE
NOW ROLLING IN.
WE DISCUSS IN THIS WEEK'S
"CAPITOL REPORT."
>> HELLO AND WELCOME TO THIS
WEEK'S "CAPITOL REPORT."
I'M JULIE BARTKEY.
ELECTRONIC PULLTABS HAVE
FAILED TO GENERATE THE REVENUE
THAT WAS EXPECTED TO HELP FUND
THE STATE'S PORTION OF THE NEW
MINNESOTA VIKINGS STADIUM.
REPRESENTATIVE BOB BARRETT
SAYS HE HAS AN ALTERNATIVE
FUNDING SOURCE THAT WAS USED
IN SAN FRANCISCO TO HELP PAY
FOR ITS NEW STADIUM AND IT
WOULD PROVIDE THE NECESSARY
DOLLARS WHILE NOT UPPING THE
ANTE FOR MINNESOTA TAXPAYERS.
>> HERE ARE THE CURRENT
FUNDING STREAMS, AGAIN,
VIKINGS $477 MILLION, A LOT OF
THAT ASK NOT THEIR MONEY, NOT
FROM THEIR CHECKBOOK, FROM
OTHER SOURCES.
UNDER MY BILL, MINNEAPOLIS,
$150 MILLION, STATE OF
MINNESOTA, WE SAVED THE
TAXPAYERS $248 MILLION IF MY
PROPOSAL CAN GET THROUGH.
THAT'S A QUARTER OF A BILLION
DOLLARS THAT TAXPAYERS CAN
SAVE, OR WE CAN SAVE FOR THE
TAXPAYERS.
THE VIKINGS' CONTRIBUTION
WOULD GO DOWN FROM $477
MILLION TO $200 MILLION.
THEY WOULD SAVE, USING THEIR
MINDSET OF CONTRIBUTIONS.
WITH THE FOLLOWING N.F.L. LOAN
GIFT, 200 MILLION, NAMING
RIGHTS, 150, AND PSLs 175.
>> REPRESENTATIVE BOB BARRETT
JOINED US IMMEDIATELY
FOLLOWING HIS NEWS CONFERENCE
TO DISCUSS HIS PROPOSAL.
REPRESENTATIVE BARRETT, LET'S
TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR
IDEA.
ePULLTABS AND BRINGING IN
THE REVENUE, NOT A SURPRISE TO
ANYBODY, BUT WHY NOT WAIT IT
OUT?
>> WELL, I DON'T THINK u*
ePULLTABS WILL EVER GETS TO
THE LEVEL WE NEED IT TO BE,
WERE 75% SHORT, A PRETTY
SIGNIFICANT SHORTFALL IS TO
GOING FROM 5% TO A HUNDRED ANY
TIME SOON IS NOT REALISTIC.
I HAPPEN TO THINK OF PLAYING
WITH AN iPAD IS DIFFERENT
THAN GETTING 10, 20 PAPER TABS
AND PLAYING WITH FOUR FRIENDS
OF YOURS OVER THE EVENING.
JUST A TOTAL DIFFERENT
MINDSET, ONE IS A SINGULAR
EVENT, THE OTHER IS MORE
SOCIAL.
I DON'T THINK IT WILL EVER GET
TO THE LEVEL THAT THEY EVER
EXPECTED IT TO, WHICH IS SAD
BECAUSE THEY'LL PAY A
BILLION-DOLLAR STADIUM ON THE
PROMISE THAT ENLTSDZ TABS
WOULD PAY FOR THE PUBLIC
PORTION AND IT JUST WON'T GET
THERE.
>> SO YOU'RE PROPOSES NAMING
RIGHTS AND PERSONAL SEAT
LICENSING.
YOU SAID THE RESEARCH IS BEING
BASED OFF WHAT'S BEEN DONE IN
SAN FRANCISCO.
CAN YOU ELABORATE?
>> IN SAN FRANCISCO, THEY HAVE
THE SAME ISSUE, THEY HAVE AN
OLDER SUM, CANDLESTICK PARK,
IT WAS BUILT THIS '60s, NOT
A GREAT STADIUM.
WE DON'T HAVE A GREAT STADIUM
IN THE METRODOME.
FINALLY THEY CAME UPON THE
RIGHT ANSWER, WHICH IS A
PARTNERSHIP WITH THE
PARTNERSHIP THE WITH THE CITY
OF SANTA CLARA, THEY WOULD
SELL NAMING RIGHTS, PERSONAL
SEAT LICENSES ALL INTO A
PUBLIC POT AND HOPEFULLY IT
WOULD FUND THE BUILDING OF THE
STADIUM.
IT DID.
THEY RECEIVED OVER A BILLION
DOLLARS IN PSL AND NAMING
RIGHT REVENUE, UP TO DATE.
NOW, IT WILL BE A YEAR UNTIL
THEY OPEN IT SO THEY HAVE
ANOTHER YEAR TO ADD TO THAT
BUT RIGHT NOW, WHAT THEY'VE
DONE IS A SUCCESS.
THAT PLAN SHOULD BE MODELED
AND I WOULD LIKE TO MODEL IT
HERE, AND I WOULD LIKE TO DO
IT IN A VERY CONSERVE TESTIFY
WAY.
IN OTHER WORDS, I DON'T THINK
WE'RE GOING TO GET A BILLION
DOLLARS FOR NAMING RIGHTS IN
MINNESOTA OR PERSONAL SEAT
LICENSES.
WE DON'T NEED TO.
WE COULD GET A THIRD OF THAT
AND STILL IMPROVE UPON WHAT WE
HAVE NOW, WHICH IS TAXPAYER
FUNDING FOR A BILLION-DOLLAR
STADIUM.
>> SO THAT'S YOUR IDEAL.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THE NEXT STEP
FOR IT, THEN.
FIRST OF ALL, HOW CAN YOU TRY
TO GET THE WILFS ON BOARD WITH
AN IDEA LIKE THIS WAS BECAUSE,
I MEAN, FRANKLY, THAT REVENUE
WOULD BE, AS YOU SAID, PUBLIC
DOLLARS AS OPPOSED TO PRIVATE
DOLLARS THAT AT THIS POINT
APPEARS TO BE GOING TO THE
OWNERS OF THE TEAM.
>> WE NEED TO PUT LEVERAGE ON
THEM.
UP NUMBER NOW, THEY'VE THE THE
WHOLE LEVERAGE.
THE LEVERAGE HAS FALLEN A
LITTLE BIT BECAUSE OF WHAT'S
HAPPENED OUT IN NEW JERSEY SO
THEY SHOULD BE A LITTLE LESS
CONFIDENT THAN THEY WERE TWO
YEARS AGO.
I WANT TO USE THAT TO DO WHAT
WE SHOULD HAVE DONE A YEAR AND
A HALF AGO, TO NEGOTIATE IN A
FAIR AND BUSINESS-LIKE FASHION
SO WE GET A GOOD DEAL FOR THE
TAXPAYER OF MINNESOTA.
WE DON'T HAVE THAT NOW, I
WOULD LIKE THAT TO HAPPEN.
SPECIFICALLY WHY THEY WOULD
WANT THIS DEAL?
RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE SAYING
THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING 477
MILLION TO THE STADIUM.
THEY'RE NOT, THAT MONEY IS
COMING FROM PRIVATE SOURCES.
THEY ACTUALLY MIGHT MAKE MONEY
ON THE STADIUM, SO IF THEY'RE
MAKING MONEY, AND THE
TAXPAYERS ARE CONTRIBUTING
ABOUT $500 MILLION, BOTH CITY
OF MINNEAPOLIS AND STATE,
THAT'S A PROBLEM, AND I THINK
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FED UP
WITH THAT.
THEY DON'T LIKE IT, SO THIS
BILL, MY BILL WOULD ACTUALLY
REDUCE THEIR CONTRIBUTION, IT
WOULD REDUCE IT FROM $477
MILLION TO $200 MILLION, WITH
ONE EXCEPTION.
THAT $200 MILLION HAS TO COME
OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKET.
THE VALUE OF THE TEAM, THE
VIKINGS HAS GONE UP $200
MILLION, ACCORDING TO FORBES,
THEY DO AN ANNUAL SURVEY OF
TEAMS AND THEY THINK THAT THE
VIKINGS' ORGANIZATION HAS GONE
UP $200 MILLION.
SO, GIVEN, THAT I THINK THEY
SHOULD BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE
$200 MILLION OUT OF THEIR OWN
POCKET.
>> GIVEN THAT YOU DID COME UP
WITH SOME STADIUM FUNDING
ALTERNATIVE DURING THE LAST
LEGISLATIVE SESSION, DO YOU
THINK THERE'S MUCH OF AN
APPETITE THIS LATE IN THE GAME
TO CHANGE THINGS SO
DRAMATICALLY?
>> WELL, I HOPE SO.
YOU KNOW, AM I NAIVE?
NO.
OBVIOUSLY IT'S LATE IN THE
GAME.
HOWEVER, IF YOU KNOW THE
LEGISLATURE AS YOU DO, JULIE,
YOU'LL KNOW THE BEST WORK OR
AT LEAST THE MOST WORK HAPPENS
DURING THE LAST DAY OR TWO.
AND I THINK USING THAT
CONCEPT, I THINK THERE'S
PLENTY OF TIME.
WE DON'T HAVE A CONTRACT WITH
THE VIKINGS, A LOT OF PEOPLE
THINK WE DO.
WE DON'T HAVE A CONTRACT, ALL
WE HAVE IS LEGISLATION.
THAT CONTRACT IS CURRENTLY
BEING WORKED ON.
UNTIL THAT CONTRACT IS SIGNED
BY BOTH PARTIES, WE HAVE TIME.
>> ARE YOU CONSIDERING WORKING
THROUGH VARIOUS -- THERE ARE A
LOT OF DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES,
YOU FEEL THE LEGISLATIVE
COMMISSION ON MINNESOTA SPORTS
FACILITIES, HAVE YOU
APPROACHED THEM?
YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO
APPROACH THE GOVERNOR.
>> RIGHT.
>> HOW DO YOU SEE -- HOW DO
YOU MANUEVER THIS SO QUICK
LEAGUE WITH ALL THE DIFFERENT
TENTACLES THAT ARE OUT THERE?
>> GREAT QUESTION.
I THINK IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.
I THINK GOVERNOR DAYTON WAS
THE HEAD CHEERLEADER
INITIALLY, HE'S THE ONE THAT
EVERYONE FOLLOWED INITIALLY TO
GET THE ePULLTABS OUT AND TO
GET THAT PASSED THROUGH THE
LEGISLATURE.
HE IS THE PERSON WE NEED TO
TALK TO TO CONVINCE.
IF WE CAN CONVINCE GOVERNOR
DAYTON THAT THIS IS A BETTER
APPROACH, AND IT IS A BETTER
APPROACH, IF WE CAN CONVINCE
HIM, ALL OF THAT WILL FALL
BY -- IT WILL COME INTO LINE.
>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT
COULD BE DONE NOW, SOONER
RATHER THAN LATER.
LET'S SAY THE CONTRACT GETS
SIGNED, EVERYTHING GOES ON AS
SCHEDULED, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE
TO APPROACH THIS COME 2014?
WILL YOU DROP IT, WILL YOU
PURSUE IT?
WORKING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION
THAT A CONTRACT IS SIGNED AND
THINGS ARE GOING IN PLACE.
>> WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT'S
IN THE CONTRACT.
I WOULD WANT TO LOOK AT THE
CONTRACT, REVIEW IT TO SEE IF
THERE ARE ANY OTHER
STIPULATIONS THAT MIGHT ALLOW
FOR US OPENING IT UP.
SO THAT'S ONE AREA.
ANOTHER AREA IS THE FACT THAT
GOVERNOR DAYTON WOULD LIKE
NEXT YEAR TO BE AN UNSESSION
IN WHICH WE REPEAL THINGS THAT
NEED TO BE REPEALED, SO GIVEN
THAT LOGIC, GIVEN HOW
EXPENSIVE THE STADIUM IS,
GIVEN HOW MUCH THE TAXPAYERS
ARE CONTRIBUTING, IN WHICH
THEY WERE TOLD THEY WOULDN'T
CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING, IT WAS
ALL GOING TO BE RUN BY
EPULLTABS OR FUNDED BY
EPULLTABS, I THINK THIS WOULD
BE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO
UNFUND OR TO HAVE IN AN
UNSESSION.
I MEAN, IT LINES UP PRETTY
WELL, GIVEN WHAT GOVERNOR
DAYTON HAS SAID HE WOULD LIKE
TO ACCOMPLISH.
HE ALSO SAID THAT HE WANTED TO
WAIT ON THE WAREHOUSE TAX
REPEAL AND HE WANTED TO WAIT
TO ELIMINATE THE TAX ON THE AG
AND THE FARM REPAIR TAX.
SO HE HAS SAID THOSE THINGS
CAN WAIT UNTIL FEBRUARY,
MARCH.
WELL, IF THOSE THINGS CAN
WAIT, THEY'RE UPWARDS OF 100
MILLION OR MORE, THIS IS
BIGGER, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO
TACKLE THIS ISSUE, TOO.
IT'S SIMILAR TO THE OTHER
THINGS WE'VE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT AND WANTING -- AND
GOVERNOR DAYTON HAS WANTED TO
WAIT UNTIL THE SPRING.
>> WE'RE JUST ABOUT OUT OF
TIME.
YOU WERE UP THERE SOLO TODAY,
DO YOU THINK YOU CAN RALLY THE
LEGISLATIVE TROOPS IF
NECESSARY?
>> DEFINITELY.
IT ALL COMES DOWN TO GOVERNOR
DAYTON.
IF HE WANTS THIS TO CHANGE AND
DO THE RIGHT THING, AND
REQUIRE THE WILFS TO
CONTRIBUTE 200 MILLION, IT
WILL HAPPEN.
IF HE DOESN'T, IT PROBABLY
WON'T HAPPEN.
>> THANK YOU FOR TAKING TIME
TO COMING IN AND TALK ABOUT
THIS ISSUE.
WE'LL CONTINUE TO TRACK IT.
>> THANK YOU.
>> MINNESOTA LEGISLATURE
PASSED THE CLEAN ENERGY AND
JOBS ACT IN 2013 WHICH FOCUSES
ON GROWING THE STATE'S SOLAR
ENERGY MARKET FROM THREE
DIRECTIONS.
HOMEOWNERS WILL BENEFIT FROM
THE EXPANSION OF THE SOLAR
REBATE PROGRAM.
UTILITIES ARE MANDATED TO
PRODUCE MORE SOLAR ENERGY, AND
THERE IS MORE MONEY TO ASSIST
IN THE EXPANDING OF THE SOLAR
MANUFACTURING MARKET IN THE
STATE.
AS THE NEW LAWS ROLL IN, THERE
ARE STILL QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
IMPACTS IT COULD HAVE TO
BUSINESSES THAT INSTALL SOLAR
PANEL.
>> WE CALL IT THE SOLAR
COASTER.
SO IT IS DIFFICULT TO LOOK
FORWARD AND PARTICULARLY WITH
THE NEW LEGISLATION THAT
WENT INTO EFFECT, THERE IS
GOING TO BE A VALUE OF SOLAR
TARIFF, SO THAT FOR ALL THE
ELECTRICITY PRODUCED ON SITE,
THERE WILL BE A VALUE
ASSOCIATED WITH THAT
ELECTRICITY, ABOVE AND BEYOND
WHAT THE RETAIL RATE FOR THAT
ELECTRICITY WOULD BE.
WE JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT
VALUE OF SOLAR IS GOING TO BE,
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT XCEL,
DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY RESOURCES
AND THE PUBLIC UTILITIES
COMMISSION NEED TO HAMMER OUT
AND WE'RE EXCITED TO SEE WHAT
THAT VALUE OF SOLAR WILL BE IN
THE COMING MONTHS.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE
LEGISLATURE'S MANDATING THAT
XCEL KEEP ITS REBATE PROGRAM
INTACT FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER
FIVE YEARS, WHEN IT WAS GOING
TO BE PHASED OUT THE END OF
THIS YEAR?
FOR YOUR BUSINESS, THAT HAS TO
HAVE SOME KIND OF AN IMPACT
BECAUSE THAT MEANS MORE
HOMEOWNERS WILL AT LEAST LOOK
INTO IT.
>> CONCEIVABLY, THAT WILL HELP
US AND MAKE SURE THAT BUSINESS
STAYS STEADY OVER THE NEXT
SEVERAL YEARS SO, YES, THAT
IS, IN THEORY, GOING TO HELP
OUR BUSINESS MOVING FORWARD.
AGAIN, THE DEVIL'S IS IN THE
DETAILS AND UNTIL WE KNOW
EXACTLY WHAT THAT RATE LOOKS
LIKE, IT'S REALLY HARD TO DO A
LOT OF PLANNING RIGHT NOW, SO
ONCE OUR CURRENT CYCLE OF
INSTALLATIONS IS DONE FOR THIS
YEAR, THEN WE'RE GOING TO BE
IN A WAIT-AND-SEE PATTERN
UNTIL WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT
LOOKS LIKE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS.
RIGHT NOW, WHEN I'M TALKING TO
MY CUSTOMERS, I'M JUST TELLING
THEM TO HOLD ON, WAIT UNTIL I
GET BACK TO YOU AND WE'RE
LOOKING AT A NEXT YEAR
INSTALLATION FOR SURE.
IF I WERE SELLING ICE CREAM, I
COULDN'T SELL YOU AN ICE CREAM
CONE UNTIL NEXT YEAR AND I
DIDN'T KNOW WHAT FAVOR IT WAS,
WE WOULD BE OUT OF BUSINESS.
BUT SOLAR IS A DIFFERENT
BUSINESS AND WE HAVE CUSTOMERS
THAT REALLY WENT TO INSTALL
SYSTEMS.
THAT'S ONE THING TO NOTE, IS
THAT DEMAND FOR SOLAR IS VERY
HIGH.
PEOPLE ALMOST UNIVERSALLY WANT
TO INSTALL SOLAR PANELS, IT'S
JUST WHETHER THEY CAN AFFORD
TO OR NOT.
SOLAR PANEL PRICES HAVE COME
DOWN A LOT ACTUALLY IN THE
LAST FOUR YEARS, THE
EFFICIENCIES HAVE GOTTEN
BETTER, THERE ARE NEW
FINANCING MECHANISMS AND
INCENTIVES SO THAT DOES HELP.
THERE IS A NEW BILL THIS YEAR
WHICH WILL ALSO ALLOW
COMMUNITY SOLAR INSTALLATIONS
SO I WATT AT A PERSON'S HOUSE
TODAY THAT HAD STREETS ALL
AROUND THEIR HOUSE.
THEY COULDN'T INSTALL A SYSTEM
ON THEIR HOUSE BUT THEY COULD
GET TOGETHER WITH A BUNCH OF
NEIGHBORS OR PEOPLE IN THEIR
CONGREGATION AND INSTALL A
SYSTEM TOGETHER ON A COMMUNITY
CENTER AT THEIR CHURCH, AND
WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THAT, AS
WELL.
AND THERE HAVE BEEN -- HAS
BEEN A LOT OF INTEREST FOR
COMMUNITY-BASED SOLAR
INSTALLATIONS.
♪
>> SENATOR JOHN MARTY
CHAMPIONED THE LEGISLATION
PROMOTING SOLAR ENERGY IN THE
STATE.
HE JOINED US RECENTLY TO
DISCUSS HIS PROPOSALS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IT MEANS
THAT MINNESOTA IS LEADING THE
PACK?
>> IT'S GOOD NEWS FOR OUR JOBS
AND BUSINESSES.
IT'S GOOD NEWS FOR THE
ENVIRONMENT.
WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO,
WE'RE JUST BEGINNING TO STEP
FORWARD IN A NEW ENERGY
ECONOMY AND I THINK WE CAN
LEARN FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.
GERMANY IS MOVING FORWARD
AGGRESSIVELY.
THEY'VE CREATED MORE JOBS THAN
ANYBODY ELSE IN THE PLANET IN
THAT AREA.
>> WHAT -- DO YOU THINK ANY OF
THIS WOULD HAVE EVEN HAPPENED
WITHOUT LEGISLATIVE DIRECTION
AND INTERVENTION?
>> ENERGY CHANGED -- THERE'S
PLENTY OF BUSINESSES, YOU TALK
TO BLOOMBERG FINANCIAL FOLKS,
THEY'LL SAY INVESTMENTS IN
RENEWABLE ENERGY IS STRONG
RIGHT NOW.
PEOPLE ARE DOING IT BECAUSE
THEY SEE A GOOD FUTURE THERE.
IT HAPPENS A LOT FASTER AND A
LOT STRONGER, A LOT BETTER IF
WE PUT SOME STATE EFFORT TO
MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE TRYING TO DO
IT.
WE, LIKE MINNESOTA SOLAR
COMPANIES, MINNESOTA WIND
COMPANIES, MINNESOTA
CONSERVATION BUSINESSES, WE
WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM GROW SO
MINNESOTA GETS THE JOBS RATHER
THAN IMPORT THEM FROM OTHER
STATES.
>> AND SENATOR, WE DID TALK TO
YOU ABOUT THAT.
NEAR THE END OF SESSION, A
LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE MONEY
THAT'S BEING ALLOCATED TO
SOLAR, SO NOW COMES THE
IMPLEMENTATION PART OF THAT,
WHERE DOES THE COMMISSION
STAND AND THE COMMITTEE STAND
ON TRYING TO GET MORE SOLAR
MANUFACTURING JOBS, PEOPLE
INTO SOLAR?
>> JUST THIS WEEK, I ACTUALLY
SPOKE TO MINNESOTA SOLAR
ENERGY ASSOCIATION, WHICH IS
BUSINESSES, A HUNDRED PEOPLE
WERE THERE.
THEY WERE SMALL ELECTRICAL
BUSINESSES, SMALL SOLAR
BUSINESSES, AND SO ON.
THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW MANY
BUSINESSES THEY'VE HAD EXPRESS
INTEREST IN MOVING
MANUFACTURING PLANTS INTO
MINNESOTA BECAUSE OF WHAT
WE'VE DONE.
WE'LL WAIT AND SEE.
I DON'T WANT TO PREDICT THAT,
OH, WE'VE GOT ALL THESE JOBS
BECAUSE THIS BILL PASSED BUT
THERE'S REAL INTEREST.
THEY'RE THE ONES WHO IMPLEMENT
WHAT WE'VE DONE.
WE SET OUT SOME POLICIES THAT
WE HOPE WILL INSPIRE THE
INDUSTRY TO HELP THEM GROW AND
WE THINK IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
>> NATIONALLY SPEAKING,
PRESIDENT OBAMA ALSO WANTS TO
INCREASE NATURAL GAS
PRODUCTION WHILE MOVING AWAY
FROM COAL.
BY SOME THERE IS BEING DUBBED
A WAR ON COAL.
WOULD YOU SAY IT'S A WAR AND
IS THAT A FAIR ASSESSMENT?
>> WELL, I THINK THE THING WE
HAVE TO LOOK AT, IN POLITICS,
WE OFTEN LOOK AT TWO YEARS OR
FOUR YEARS, THE NEXT ELECTION
IS LONG-TERM THINKING.
YOU KNOW, I THINK WE OUGHT TO
BE THINKING LONG-TERM THINKING
IS MY GREAT-GREAT KIDS OR
THEIR GREAT-GRANDKIDS, BECAUSE
THIS IS THEIR PLANET, THEIR
STATE, TOO.
WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE YET
BUT WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT
THAT.
IF COAL EMISSIONS ARE GOING TO
DESTROY THE CLIMATE WE HAVE TO
LIVE IN, MAYBE IT'S TIME TO
DECLARE WAR ON SOMETHING THAT
WILL KILL OFF OUR
GREAT-GRANDKIDS.
>> BUILT THE ARGUMENT IS THEY
CAN REDUCE THE EMISSIONS SO IT
COULD BE VIABLE.
>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS COAL IS
PROBABLY ONE OF THE WORST
FACTORS.
OIL, EVEN NATURAL GAS IS NOT A
STEP FORWARD.
WHAT WE BASICALLY HAVE AS A
PROBLEM IS THAT FOR 650
MILLION YEARS, ENERGY STORAGE
HAS BEEN COMPRESSED INTO WHAT
BECOMES FOSSIL FUELS.
THAT'S WHY THEY'RE CALLED
FOSSIL FUELS AND THAT STORED
ENERGY FROM THE SUN AND PLANT
LIFE AND ANIMAL LIFE THAT
DECAYS AND EVENTUALLY WORKS
DOWN TO THIS OVER MILLENIA,
OUR EONS, AND WE'RE TRYING
AS -- THE HUMAN RACE IS IN
THREE, 400 YEARS OF TIME
TRYING TO BURN UP HUNDREDS OF
MILLIONS OF YEARS WORTH OF
ENERGY STORAGE AND THAT'S JUST
SUPER HEATING UP THE CLIMATE.
SO WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT.
WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME IN
TERMS OF HUMAN HISTORY.
WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO
CHANGE IT FOR THE SAKE OF OUR
GREAT-GRANDKIDS.
>> AND SENATOR, YOU'VE BEEN
VERY VOCAL ABOUT WANTING TO
MAKE MINNESOTA THE FIRST STATE
IN THE NATION TO BE 100%
FOSSIL-FUEL FREE.
HOW VIABLE OF A GOAL IS THAT,
GIVEN THIS POLITICAL CLIMATE,
THE ENVIRONMENTAL CLIMATE?
DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE?
>> NOT GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT
YEAR.
IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN THIS
DECADE.
WHETHER IT HAPPENS IN 20 YEARS
OR 60 YEARS, IT'S GOING TO
HAPPEN SOMEWHERE IN THAT
RANGE, I THINK, AND WE
CAN'T -- WE DON'T KNOW THE
TECHNOLOGIES YET.
TECHNOLOGIES, EVERY WEEK YOU
HEAR NEW TECHNOLOGIES
DEVELOPING IN MORE EFFICIENT
WAYS OF DOING THINGS, AND
BOTTOM LINE IS, IT'S TIME FOR
US TO START TAKING A LOOK AT
THE LONG TERM.
NOT JUST THE NEXT TWO OR FOUR
OR SIX OR EIGHT YEARS, BUT THE
NEXT TWO OR FOUR OR SIX OR
EIGHT GENERATIONS.
WE OUGHT TO BE LOOKING AT THAT
AND I THINK THAT'S OUR
OBLIGATION TO THE FUTURE.
AND I THINK WE'RE DOING THAT.
THAT'S WHAT I'M EXCITED ABOUT.
WE'RE BRINGING TOGETHER ALL
THE STAKEHOLDERS, NOT JUST THE
ENVIRONMENTAL ADVOCATES, BUT
THE UTILITIES, BUSINESSES AND
LABOR AND EVERYBODY, BRING 'EM
TOGETHER AND START FIGURING
OUT HOW WE MAKE THIS
TRANSITION WHICH WE HAVE TO
DO.
>> AND WHAT ARE YOU HEARING
FROM BUSINESS OWNERS,
PARTICULARLY UTILITIES WHO
SOME ARE PHASING OUT COAL,
SOME ARE NOT.
ARE THEY READY?
>> I THINK THAT THEY'RE READY
WITH SOME PUSH AND SOME
ENCOURAGEMENT.
WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING WHEN I
MEET AND TALK WITH THE
UTILITIES WHICH I DO REGULARLY
AS CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE,
WHEN I TALK WITH THEM, I TELL
THEM, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO
PUSH YOU MORE THAN YOU FEEL
COMFORTABLE.
THESE ARE VERY CAUTIOUS,
CONSERVATIVE BUSINESSES,
APPROPRIATELY SO.
WE'RE GOING TO PUSH THEM MORE
THAN THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE BUT
WE ALSO UNDERSTAND THEY'RE THE
ONES WHO DELIVER THE POWER AND
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY
CAN BE VERY PROFITABLE AND
VERY SUCCESSFUL IN DELIVERING
CLEAN POWER TO PEOPLE.
>> WE SPOKE WITH SENATOR DAVE
BROWN, THE LEAD REPUBLICAN ON
THE COMMITTEE, AND HE STATED
ESSENTIALLY HE THINKS
GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO TAKE A
STEP BACK ON THIS ISSUE AND
JUST LET THE STANDARD THAT ARE
CURRENTLY IN PLACE BE IN PLACE
FOR A WHILE AND SEE HOW THAT
WORKS.
YOU JUST MENTIONED A LITTLE
BIT OF A LEGISLATIVE PUSH AND
ENCOURAGEMENT.
WHERE IS THE BALANCE?
IS THERE ONE?
>> THE BALANCE IS THAT WE'VE
GOT, IN TERMS OF THE MAIN
GREENHOUSE GASES HEATING UP
THE CLIMATE, GOT 400 PARTS PER
MILLION RIGHT NOW.
THAT'S THE HIGHEST IN 2.6
MILLION YEARS AND GROWING BY
ABOUT TWO POINTS A YEAR.
WHICH CAN'T CONTINUE THAT
TREND.
WE HAVE TO REVERSE THAT TREND
AND SAYING, WELL, WE'RE NOT IN
ANY HURRY.
THE WAY I WOULD PHRASE IT, AND
SENATOR BROWN OBVIOUSLY WOULD
DISAGREE BUT WE'LL SEE HOW
THIS PLAYS OUT IN THE NEXT
COUPLE DECADES AND THAT IS, NO
MATTER HOW BOLD WE ARE NOW AND
I DON'T THINK WE'RE BEING AS
BOLD AS WE NEED TO BE, NO
MATTER HOW BOLD WE ARE NOW, I
THINK 20 YEARS FROM NOW PEOPLE
ARE GOING TO LOOK BACK AND ASK
WHY WE WERE SO TIMID AND
SENATOR BROWN MAY NOT SEE IT
YET, BUT WE HAD TESTIMONY THIS
YEAR, BEGINNING OF THE
SESSION, FROM THE INSURANCE
FEDERATION, NOT A RADICAL
GROUP, A LOT OF INSURANCE
BUSINESSES IN MINNESOTA
TALKING HOW THEIR PREMIUMS FOR
HOMEOWNERS HAVE MORE THAN
DOUBLED IN A DECADE BECAUSE OF
MORE SEVERE WEATHER PATTERNS,
MORE TORNADOES, MORE HIGH WIND
STORMS, MORE FLOODING, MORE --
THE THINGS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED
WITH HIGHER GLOBAL
TEMPERATURES.
NOT HEAT WAVES ONLY BUT HEAT,
DROUGHT, FLOODING AND ALL
THOSE SEVERE STORMS.
THAT'S CAUSING HOMEOWNER
PREMIUMS TO DOUBLE IN A
DECADE.
THEY'RE NOT BRAGGING BIT,
THEY'RE JUST ALERTING US, AND
HE MAY NOT SEE THAT BUT I
THINK THE PUBLIC IS BEGINNING
TO CATCH ON.
>> SO WHAT'S NEXT FOR YOU NEXT
SEX IN A POLICY YEAR?
>> RIGHT NOW, I WOULD SAY WHAT
WE'RE FOCUSING ON RIGHT NOW IS
GETTING THE ENERGY COMMISSION,
20 LEGISLATORS, BIPARTISAN
GROUP, GET THEM TO START
BRINGING TOGETHER EVERYONE,
ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS SO WE
DON'T HAVE THE FIGHTS AT THE
CAPITOL HERE, THAT WE BRING
PEOPLE TOGETHER, EDUCATE EACH
OTHER, WORK WITH EACH OTHER,
FIGURE OUT HOW MINNESOTA CAN
CREATE AN ECONOMY THAT IS
CLEAN ENERGY AND GOING TO DO
HUGE THINGS FOR NUMBERS OF
JOBS AND OUR BUSINESSES.
THAT'S WHAT WE OUGHT TO BE
DOING FOR THIS STATE.
IT'S GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT
AND GREAT FOR THE ECONOMY.
>> ALL RIGHT.
SENATOR JOHN MARTY, AS ALWAYS,
THANK YOU FOR COMING IN AND
TALKING WITH US.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> AMERICA HAS 25 NEW CITIZENS
FOLLOWING THIS NATURALIZATION
CEREMONY ON MONDAY IN THE
CAPITOL ROTUNDA.
>> THE NEW RESIDENTS CAME TO
THE UNITED STATES FROM ALL
OVER THE WORLD.
BAZRA SAYS IT'S AN EXCITING
DAY FOR HER AND HAS BEEN A
LONG TIME COMING.
>> BEEN A LONG JOURNEY, YOU
KNOW, BEING FROM A DIFFERENT
COUNTRY AND ADAPTING TO THE
CULTURE AND EVERYTHING, BUT I
ENJOY IT.
I ENJOY BEING HERE, SO FAR.
>> SAID YOU COME FROM KENYA,
CORRECT?
SO KIND OF EXPLAIN LIFE THERE
COMPARED TO LIFE IN MINNESOTA,
IF YOU CAN.
>> IT'S QUITE DIFFERENT,
ESPECIALLY THE WEATHER IS
DIFFERENT AND, YEAH, HERE IN
AMERICA AND IN MINNESOTA,
THERE ARE A LOT OF
OPPORTUNITIES, JOB
OPPORTUNITIES, SCHOOL, YEAH,
SO MANY THINGS GOING ON.
>> IS THAT WHAT BROUGHT YOU
HERE?
WERE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES NOT
EXISTING WHERE YOU WERE?
>> THERE WERE BUT, YOU KNOW,
LIKE IN AFRICA, LIFE IS A
LITTLE BIT TOUGH.
YEAH, THE ECONOMY -- YEAH,
UH-HUH.
MY ADVICE TO PEOPLE WHO CAME
FROM DIFFERENT COUNTRIES TO
THE U.S. IS, IT'S GOING TO BE
A LONG JOURNEY WHEN YOU GET
HERE.
BUT LATER ON, YOUR LIFE IS
GOING TO CHANGE FOR THE
BETTER.
♪
>> SENATOR DAVID BROWN IS THE
LEAD REPUBLICAN ON THE
ENVIRONMENT AND ENERGY
COMMITTEE.
HE SAYS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH
THE DIRECTION OF THE ENERGY
BILL AND HE SAT DOWN WITH US
RECENTLY TO DISCUSS HIS
CONCERNS.
SENATOR, LET'S BEGIN WITH WHAT
YOU THINK THE MESSAGE IS
WITH -- REGARDING THE FACT
THAT MINNESOTA IS ACTUALLY ON
TRACK TO EXCEED THE NATIONAL
STANDARDS WHEN IT COMES TO
REDUCING CARBON EMISSIONS AND
INCREASING RENEWABLE ENERGY
PRODUCTION.
WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO
MINNESOTANS?
>> WELL, IT MEANS A FEW
DIFFERENT THINGS.
POTENTIALLY, THE LONG ROAD
COULD MEAN HIGHER ENERGY
PRICES FOR US WHEN WE GET OUR
MONTHLY BILLS, BUT WE ARE ON
TRACK TO REACH THE RENEWABLE
STANDARD.
I HATED TO SEE US PROPOSE
INCREASING THOSE STANDARDS,
PRETTY SIGNIFICANTLY OVER THAT
FIVE-YEAR PERIOD FROM 2025 TO
2030 BECAUSE WE ARE ON TRACK
AND I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS
ON THAT.
IT'S ONLY BEEN IN EFFECT I
THINK SINCE 2007 SO I THINK WE
NEED TO FOCUS ON WHAT WE'VE
SET IN PLACE ALREADY BEFORE WE
SUDDENLY INCREASE THOSE
STANDARDS, BUT OVER THE LAST
TWO DECADES, ACROSS THE
NATION, CARBON EMISSIONS HAVE
FALLEN, HAVE BEEN AT THEIR
LOWEST LEVELS SINCE TWO
DECADES AGO, SO I THINK THOSE
ARE GOOD THINGS.
I THINK A LOT OF WHAT'S BEING
PROPOSED MAYBE IS GOING
OVERBOARD AND IT'S GOING TO
DRASTICALLY INCREASE THE COST
OF ENERGY.
>> AND PRESIDENT OBAMA WANTS
TO INCREASE NATURAL GAS
PRODUCTION AND MOVE AWAY FROM
COAL, THIS IS BEING DUBBED BY
MANY AS A WAR ON COAL.
WHERE DO YOU THINK COAL FITS
ON THIS ENERGY LANDSCAPE?
>> I THINK COAL IS STILL GOING
TO BE THE MOST COST-EFFECTIVE
OPTION AND I THINK WE SHOULD
USE IT AS AN OPTION.
I LIVE IN BECKER WHERE
MINNESOTA'S LARGEST
COAL-ENERGY-PRODUCING PLANT
IS, AND PEOPLE DECRY THE
AMOUNT OF POLLUTION THEY SAY
IS TAKING PLACE.
I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.
YES, THERE IS SOME BUT THEY
HAVE VERY STRINGENT STANDARD
ON THE MERCURY BEING RELEASED
AND THE EMISSIONS BEING
RELEASED FROM SHERCO AS DO
MULTIPLE COAL PRODUCING PLANTS
AND I THINK THERE ARE
STILL-SOPTIONS.
>> THERE ARE SOME
ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS RISING
ABOUT WATER QUALITY
PRODUCTION, AS THEY DRILL
THROUGH SHALE TO GET TO GAS,
AS I SAID, THE MOVE IS TO GO
TOWARDS MORE NATURAL GAS AS
COAL, SO IS IT POSSIBLE TO
PRESERVE THE ENVIRONMENT WHILE
TAPPING INTO THIS IF THIS IS
INDEED THE DIRECTION THE STATE
AND FEIT GOVERNMENT GO?
>> MY CONCERN WITH NATURAL GAS
IS THE THE PRICE BECAUSE OF
THE OF AFRICAING.
THERE ARE A LOT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS THAT
WANTS TO PUT AN END TO
FRACKING, AND IF THAT WERE TO
HAPPEN, WE MOST DEFINITELY
WILL SEE OUR ELECTRIC BILLS
RISE BECAUSE THE COST OF
NATURAL GAS WOULD EXPLODE IF
WE PUT AN END TO FRACKING.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT DIRECTION
FRACKING IS GOING TO GO IN
THIS CASE.
>> SO, SENATOR, THERE IS A
MOVE AT THE STATE LEVEL FOR
SURE, AND DEFINITELY THE
NATIONAL LEVEL, TO MOVE TO
RENEWABLE ENERGY AND AWAY FROM
FOSSIL FUELS.
DO YOU THINK THIS IS VIABLE AT
ALL?
>> WELL, WHAT I FOUND
INTERESTING, YOU MENTIONED
PRESIDENT OBAMA'S SPEECH, WHEN
HE WAS IN AFRICA, HE WAS
PROMOTING THE USE OF FOSSIL
FUELS IN AFRICA.
THEY HAVE NEWFOUND OIL AND GAS
RESERVES IN AFRICA, AND HE WAS
SPEAKING VERY POSITIVELY OF
THAT, BUT YET, HERE IN
AMERICA, IT'S LIKE HE WANTS US
TO MOVE AWAY FROM THOSE
SOURCES.
THOSE REALLY ARE FOSSIL FUELS,
THOSE ARE OUR MAIN SOURCE OF
ELECTRIC ENERGY IF WE WANT
RELIABLE 24-HOUR, SEVEN DAYS A
WEEK ENERGY.
NOW, IF WE WANT TO MOVE MORE
TOWARDS RENEWABLE, ARE WE
WILLING TO GIVE UP OUR 24-7
USE OF ELECTRICITY?
ARE WE WILLING TO HAVE
INTERMITTENT ELECTRIC ENERGY
DELIVERY TO US?
I DON'T THINK WE ARE.
>> SENATOR MARTY ASPIRES TO
MINNESOTA BECOMING THE FIRST
STATE IN THE NATION TO BECOME
100% FOSSIL FUEL FREE.
WHY NOT MOVE IN THIS DIRECTION
OF RENEWABLES IF THERE ARE ALL
THESE OTHER RESOURCES AND
RENEWABLES THAT CAN BE TAPPED
INTO?
>> THERE ARE OTHER SOURCE THAT
IS CAN BE TAPPED INTO AND WE
ARE, BUT SOLAR ANDt( WIND ARE
NOT YET BASE-LOADi] PRODUCERS OF
ENERGY.
THEY'RE VERY INTERMITTENT.
THEY ARE BEING USED, XCEL IS
USING WIND VERY WELL, BUT
THEY'RE NOTçó YET BASE-LOAD
CAPABLE OF PROVIDING ENERGY 24
HOURS, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.
THAT'S WHY WE NEED COAL.
THAT'S WHY WE NEED NUCLEAR.
>> YOU TALKED A LITTLE BIT
EARLIER ABOUT SOLAR AND THE
xD T
STEPS TO INCREASE SOLAR
PRODUCTION AND MANUFACTURING
IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.
HOW CHALLENGING DO YOU THINK
IT'S GOING TO BE TO TRY TO
IMPLEMENT A LOT OF WHAT WAS
PASSED LAST SESSION?
>> I GUESS WE HAVE YET TO SEE.
I THINK IT'Sw3 GOING TO BE VERYr
CHALLENGING.
BEINGw3 SUBSIDIZED,■ç SOLARi] Mç
SOME DAY, BE Aw3w3 VERY EFFECTIk
SOURCE OF E
FOR US.
RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT.
IT'S NOT AT THAT PLACE YET AND
I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO FORCE
IT, AND THEY THINK BY FORCING
IT, IT WILL FORCE US TO GET
THERE.
I JUST THINK IT'S SEVERAL
YEARS AWAY YET.
>> SO IF YOU■ç■ç COULD CRAFT AN
ENERGY PLAN THAT YOU THINK
WOULD WORK FOR MINNESOTA, WHAT
WOULD IT LOOK LIKE?
>> OUR MAIN■çok■ç SOURCES WOULDE
WHAT THEY AREñrmy NOW, COALokw3ç
NUCLEAR, AND I WOULD LIFTok THE
MORATORIUMS ON THOSE, I WOULD
STOP PUTTING EXCISE TAX ON THE
COAL THAT COMES■ç INTO THE STATE
SO IT WOULD BE EVEN CHEAPER
THAN WHAT IT IS NOW.
I JUST -- I HAVE A HARD
TIME -- THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT IS
BASED AROUND THE IDEA THAT
CARBON EMISSIONS IS CAUSING
MANMADE CLIMATE CHANGE.
I DISAGREE WITH THAT.
YES, WE'RE SEEING OUR CLIMATE
CHANGE.
I DISAGREE THAT IT'S MANMADE
AND I DISAGREE THAT CARBON
EMISSION IS THE CAUSE OF IT.
AS I SAID A LITTLE BIT AGO, A
CARBON EMISSIONS ARE AT THE
LOWEST LEVEL IN TWO DECADES,
SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, WE
CAN'T ATTRIBUTE THE FLOOD IN
DULUTH THAT SOME HAVE TO MAN
MADE CLIMATE CHANGE, WE CAN'T
ATTRIBUTE THE FLOODING IN SON
MINNESOTA.
THERE'S NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE
THAT THAT'S THE CAUSE OF THESE
EVENTS, BUT YET IT VERY
QUICKLY GETS THROWN OUT AS A
CAUSE.
>> AND THE COMMITTEE IS
CONTINUING TO HAVE HEARINGS
THROUGHOUT THE INTERIM AS MANY
COMMITTEES DO, COMMITTEE
MEETINGS DO OCCUR HERE AT THE
CAPITOL SO WHAT DO YOU EXPECT
TO HEAR AND WHAT ARE SOME OF
THE POLICIES THAT YOU INTEND
TO HAVE A HAND IN AS WE GET
CLOSER TO NEXT SESSION?
>> WELL, IF I HAVE A HAND IN
SOMETHING, IT WILL BE LESS
GOVERNMENT ANDxD RESTRICTION.
LIE
COAL■ç AND■çt( NUCLEAR ARE OUR ç
OPTIONS.
I BELIER■■ç THE■ç■ç LEGISLATIVE
ENERGY COMMISSION IS GOING■ç
TO -- WELL,■ç THE WHOLE IDEA OF
WHY THEY WANTED TO HIRE AN
Uz■ç COMPLY WITH THIS THINKINGUQ
THAT WE NEED MOREi]■çi]■ç■çt(xDç
WE■ç NEED TO MEETw3 THE STANDARD
QUICKER, WE NEED TO BE THE
FIRST STATE IN THE NATION WITH
100% RENEWABLES.
I DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT
THAT'S THE DIRECTION THIS
COMMISSION IS GOING TO GO.
>> OKAY.
SENATOR BROWN, THANK YOU SO
MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THIS JOINT MEETING OF THE
HOU[E■ GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS
COMMITTEE AND THE SENATE STATE
AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTok COMMITTEE
WAS CALLED TO DISCUSS THE
RULES SET BYt( STATE AGENCIES.
>>■ç Mr. LIPPMAN, WHO HAS
AUTHORITIES TO MAKE■ç RULES■ç■çR
TO MAKE FINAL DECISION-MAKING?
WHAT KIND OF BODIES CAN DO
THAT?
>> JUDGE LIPPMAN.
>> SURE.
>> REPRESENTATIVE WINKLER,
THEY ALL FOLLOW FROM SPECIFIC
DELEGATIONS OF RULE-MAKING
AUTHORITY THAT ARE IN
STATUTES, THEY START OUT IN
BILLS OR CHAPTER LAWS AND IT'S
A DIRECTION TO AN EXECUTIVE
BRANCH AGENCY OR A BOARD TO
ADOPT RULES, IN PARTICULAR
AREAS AND ONE OF THE FUNCTIONS
THAT I DO AS PART OF THE LEGAL
REVIEW IS TO MAKE SURE■çq THAT
THE BODY TRYING TO PROMULGATEok
RULES DOES IN■ç FACT HAVE THE
LEGAL AUTHORITY TO DO SO.xDq■ç■ç
♪■ç■ç■ç
>> AND THAT CONCLUDES THIS
WEEK'S■ç PROGRAM.
FROM ALL O(]w3 US AT SENATE MEDA
SERVICES, I'M JULIE BARTKEY.
THANK YOU FOR WATCHING
"CAPITOL REPORT."xD■ç