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Brian: Hello, hello and welcome to CatalystMLM. I'm Brian Swichkow and today on the show we
have Judy Boger. Judy worked as a nurse, an office manager, and a skiing coach before
discovering Multi-level Marketing through a company called Nikon in 1992. She has since
reached their top rank of royal diamond, built an extensive business around the world, and
helped many other people to achieve similar success. Thanks so much for being on today.
Judy: Good morning, or, good afternoon, whatever the case may be.
Brian: So, I, met you ages ago, and every time I see you or even hear your voice you
just make me smile. And, I just, awesome for so many reasons, which I'm going to try and
highlight throughout the interview. But, tell me a little bit more about how you went from,
you know, nurse, office manager, skiing coach, to a successful Multi-level marketer.
Judy: Well, it's kind of interesting because somebody came to my office who was being prospected
by another Network marketer. And, I had been prospected for years, to have people try to
get me into either this business or that business. And, I just didn't want anything to do with
it. But this guy happened to hit me at the right time. I had one son in college, and
an expensive school. And another son getting ready to go to school, and so I was kinda
looking for some way to make some extra money. I didn't wanna take college loans out to pay
for the boys' education. So, I was, in fact I was starting a jewelry business. I thought,
you know, I'll have house parties for jewelry, everybody wants jewelry. I thought, what I
don't sell I can where so it was a win-win situation. And what this guy came in and said
he wanted me to take a look at what he was doing. Because he wanted to, wanted my opinion,
to see if he should join. So, he wasn't prospecting me as such, he was being prospected, and I
had taught skiing with him and so, I said, oh sure, I said, why are you asking my opinion?
And he said, because you're a nurse and Roger's a dentist, my ex is a dentist, and he said,
and I thought, you know, I, you might know something about these products and I'd like
your opinion. So I looked at it and I said well, I don't know about you, but I'm gonna
do it. I wanna sell these. And so, this guy who was so inexperienced, in Network Marketing,
he didn't even take me to an opportunity meeting. He said, okay, I'll call ya tomorrow, and
let you know what we need you to do next because I'm going to a meeting tonight. And he didn't
even ask me to go. So, the next day he came in the office with applications, and said,
here, you'll have to fill this out, and he said, but fax mine in first because I'm your
sponsor.
Brian: So he hadn't even signed as a distributor yet?
Judy: He had not even sign, he spelled it all out but he hadn't sent it in. And so,
the meeting he'd been to, they said, just be sure your's is faxed in before, mine was
faxed in.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And so, he came in and, of course, in '92, not everybody had a fax machine. And
now it's like, it's sitting there and what do we do with it, ya know?
Brian: Yep.
Judy: But, so I faxed his application in and then faxed mine in, and we ordered some product.
And, I just thought, that the products just fascinated me. And I thought, let's see if
they work. So, I was just gonna sell products, I wasn't gonna tell anybody it was Network
Marketing. Because, I didn't have any respect for Network Marketing, but that's because
I didn't know anything about Network Marketing.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: I was really kind of ignorant of all the facts. But, within two months, I had people,
you know, I was selling enough products, that not, you know, not wonderfully great amounts.
And then two other people I sold products to said hey, can I sell these too? And that's
when I realized I was being like an ostrich with my head in the sand.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: So, it was time to get my head out of the sand and actually look at the business
side of it and not just the products side of it, and actively try to build a business.
So I sponsored those two, and the company had a promotion going on where you sponsor
two people every month to get to the very first level, and so that was my goal. And
I sponsored two people every month for six months, to get to that first level. And, I
think that's what kept me going because there was a goal.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And there was a reward I can get by doing what I should have done anyhow. And
so the first month I sponsored those two. Well, the first month I actually did the business
I sponsored those two people. And then the second month I sponsored five, and the third
month I sponsored, three. And, you know, by that time the people I sponsored, I was helping
them. And . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: having them focus on doing the same thing I was doing, and it started growing.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And within four months, I was making, I made $5,000. Within four months of doing
the business. It was six months of starting the, signing the app, but . . .
Brian: Right.
Judy: four months of starting the business. And I made $5,000, and my goal was to make
$2,500. And so, I was very excited needless to say, because I was, you know. I was getting
positive reinforcement, for the work I was putting in. I think that's the most important
thing when you're bringing somebody into this business, make sure they make money, quickly.
Brian: Yep.
Judy: Otherwise, you know, they don't see the value. And they don't start building a
business quickly, they won't see the value, isn't that how it goes. People that I sponsor,
in those first six months, all my big legs came from that. And that was in 1992. Now,
not all of those people were sponsored, but the person I sponsored may have sponsored
somebody who sponsored somebody who sponsored somebody. And so, those big legs came from
those first six months of actively building the business. And of course there are other
people that I've sponsored, you know, I've sponsored many people over the years. But,
I think that first initial push, and seeing a vision for the future and being able to
share that vision, was what got the business going.
Brian: Yeah. And that's really powerful in terms of getting people to make money fast.
And I think you're actually the person that I originally learned that from. Which is that,
if you get people excited, I mean, I've, I mean, I remember getting, actually I remember
the exact penny with like the first check of every company I've ever been a part of.
Is, $13.72, yes! And you just, you get so excited, and it's, I mean, I think it's partially
because it's outside of a job, and you did it entirely yourself, and there's that. And,
then there's the other part of it, like, it's the beginning of something bigger. But, kind
of . . .
Judy: Yeah, it's . . .
Brian: Yeah, go ahead.
Judy: It's like anything, you know, you have to know, I said about a vision, and you have
to know, where you want to go.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: I mean, if you don't know where you're going, all roads lead there. And so, nobody
wants to get on a train, if they don't know where the train is going. And if you want
people to join your train, you have to know where you're going and where the train is
going. And then so you have to have that vision of knowing what you're going to be doing,
where you're going to be going, and you have to have your story ready to let people know,
that you're in, not the Network Marketing industry, you're in the Network Marketing
profession.
Brian: Yeah, yeah, I love that. And, kind of stepping back a little bit, you talked
about how, you know, you had a goal and you wanted to, you know, sponsor two people a
month for six months. And that was what you wanted to do to get your achievement and get
the bonus. But, a lot of people set those goals and then, you know, they don't always,
happen, you know. We work for the, we strive for them, we align with people to help us.
But they don't always happen. And a lot of times it can really hurt and kind of, you
know, if you don't do it the first month it can hurt the second, the third and the fourth.
So, would you said that you were emotionally unattached from your results when you were
doing that? Or, were you just, like, what was your frame of mind as you were working
towards that goal?
Judy: Oh no, I was looking at the results. Because, yes, we had very nice life. We had
a second home down in the Carolina's, we had all of the trappings of a good life. But we
also had all of the bills. So, our bill were exponentially this big, and as the things
that we had. And, I was feeling stressed before I got involved in the business. Because I,
you know, like I said, I was sure how we were going to pay for the college. And, the boys
had picked expensive schools, and I just hated feeling like I was being pushed down more
and more. And, the thought of seeing a check that would pay for both colleges, and John
wasn't even in school yet. He was still a senior in highschool. And so it was like,
oh, that's cool. You know, I, that's what got me excited. The fact that I was seeing
these checks with like, a comma on them, you know.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: Every check has a period, but I like checks with commas on them. And so to see
that, well as soon as I got the first check that had a comma on it, that had me hooked.
And, my goal then was to make sure each check each month was, if not the same, a little
bit bigger. And once in a while, it would be lower, and I'd get discouraged because
I thought, it was. This is a good check, but, it's not as good as the one last month. And
that's when I got a mentor and got somebody who actually knew about the business, and
the industry, and the profession of Network Marketing. And once I talked to, Reid Nelson,
was the guy I talked to. Then I started seeing what I needed to do and also there's a book,
and it's called, being, I was just looking to see, I thought I had it within arms reach,
and I don't. It's called Being The Best You Can Be In MLM by John Kalench.
Brian: That one I don't have that one within arms reach. I was like, there's a good chance,
that what you're about to say is within arms reach of me, but it's not.
Judy: This, right here. It's, Being The Best You Can Be in MLM.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And, I, he gave me that book to read. And it just, it really, I loved it because
it was like, a cookbook. You know, it showed me what I needed to do to get the results
that I wanted to get. If you're gonna make a cake you don't just say, okay, I'm gonna
start throwing things in, and hope I get out, you know, turn out with a cake. And so you
use a cookbook, and so you follow the recipe and you make your cake, but, you have to bake
it too. And then wait for it to cool, and ice it. And some people when they get involved
in this business, they make the cake but they don't put it in the oven and they don't understand.
Brian: My other favorite metaphor is used differently but I think it applies here. Is
that, you put a cake in the oven it's 600 degrees, the outside of it burns, and the
inside is gooey. You have to put it in and you have to do it consistently for the time
required. So that the cake cooks all the way through, then you let it cool, or if you put
the icing on too soon then the icing melts. And I've done that before because I wanted
to eat some cake.
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: And, yeah, you definitely do, you have to be patient. I think that's a part of, they
kind of, it's a weird transition. But, one of the things that when I found Nikon, there
was just something that I really loved. And I've carried it way beyond that, it's called
the five pillars of health. And it's something that they teach other distributors and, healthy
body, healthy mind, healthy family, healthy society, and healthy finances are all the
things that are needed for true health. And, I wanted to kind of go through them one by
one with you. Because I know that you have some interesting stories on all of them. So,
the first one, healthy body, so, I mean, you know, I always thought if you, if you're not
alive then you can't keep living. You know, you have to take care of yourself. So, how
is a healthy body helped you to grow your business?
Judy: Well, I think that a lot, being a nurse, in my mind, healthy body just meant free of
disease. And, it's not, that's not the case. A healthy body is somebody who's getting the
proper exercise, close to your proper weight. I still have to shed a few, I shed a few,
gained a few, but that' what we all do. And, but, it's having their body being, feeling
the way, at their optimum. Feeling good. And not just feeling not sick, there's a difference
there. And I, you know, I'm not gonna pump my products except that, I do feel younger
now than I did when I got started in the business 22 years ago, almost. And, it's amazing how
I just went to my high school class reunion and that was so interesting. Because I saw
some people and I thought well they don't have a healthy body. And they, some of them
. . .
Brian: It was all the jocks wasn't it?
Judy: Some of them, yeah. I mean, there were like, they just, well most of the jocks still
looked pretty good. But there were a couple of other guys, I'm looking at them and I'm
thinking, holy cow. I would never had known him because he was like this big around in
highschool and now he's this big around, ya know. And it's just, it blew my mind, that
some people can, let their bodies go. And not just by eating and getting fat, but by
doing nothing to feel better. And nothing to make themselves feel better. I think if
you're, if you're used to skiing and you can't ski anymore, or you used to play tennis and
you can't play tennis anymore, or you used to like to take walks and you can't walk anymore,
that's not a healthy body.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: It's being able to do the things you want to do, when you want to do them. That's
a healthy body.
Brian: Yeah, and you touched before, about you're kind of misconceptions about Network
Marketing, but you didn't have any information about it. And I've seen the same thing in
people is that they go, well, I'm this age, I have these problems. This is just how it
works. And . . .
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: you know, so often, I mean, it doesn't have to be anything miraculous. I mean, I've
gotten in the habit of like googling things of, you know, I was cramping up when I ran.
And I go, how can I not cramp up when I run? Eat a bananna, okay, I ate a banana before
run. Now I eat banana before I run I don't cramp up. And, you know, it's like, just kind
of asking the question, regardless of what the answer is, saying, is this actually the
case? Do I actually have to deal with this? And, you know, like, more energy and so on
and so forth. And, one of my other favorite quotes is, you are the average of the five
people you spend the most time with. And that could be based on money, and energy, but also
weight. So . . .
Judy: Yes.
Brian: I mean, have you worked with any distributors that got involved and you know, maybe they
just weren't of the right mindset in terms of their body and you had to say, look this
is how you grow your business, and you need to kind of get rid of that mindset.
Judy: You know, I used to jokingly say, from the front of the room, never face to face
with somebody. Because I didn't wanna get hit. But, I'd say, you're gonna, you're income,
for every pound that you lose in the next year will be an extra thousand dollars a month
on your income.
Brian: Yeah, I love that.
Judy: Really, I believe that if somebody wants to talk about a healthy body and they're,
you know, 50 pounds overweight, it's not impressive. At least not to me. And it's like, you know,
it's like having kids, that, you can't tell them not to drink and smoke if you're sitting
there, you know, hey, don't drink and smoke, I hate it. You know, they look at what you
do and not what you say. So, you know.
Brian: Right, and speaking of mindset, and kind of, you know, communicating that. Because
it's not only within you. It is how other people see you. And if you're just like, hey,
check out these products, and your very bland about it, and you're not excited then, people
aren't gonna get excited about it. So, the second piece, or the second pillar is healthy
mind.
Judy: Yes.
Brian: And, you know, without the mind, the body can't function. So, what did you have
to do, to create your own healthy mind? And to create your healthy mindset.
Judy: Again, being a nurse, in my, the first time I heard this that a Nikon opportunity
meeting, a healthy body, a healthy mind. And I thought a healthy mind to me was either
sane or insane. Or however, but really there was very black and white to me because of
my nursing education. But, I've realized, that there's a lot of gray area in there.
And, you know, if you feel stressed, that's not a healthy mind. If you get home from work
and you're snapping at your spouse, or your snapping at your kids, or you're at work and
your snapping at your underwings, or your bosses, that's not a healthy mind. It's freedom
from stress, and I, Nikon has something called Humans Being More training, which I thought
was a stupid name. I thought, humans being more what. And I, took, and it was mandatory,
if you reach the first leadership level. So I took it, and it just, it really opened my
mind to realize that, it's, you know, there, you do have a lot of junk in there.
Brian: Yeah, yeah.
Judy: That you've, and the older you get the more junk you can get built up there. I think
that's why we turn gray. Because all this junk is turning us gray. But, I was able to
really look at some of the things in my past life, or, and see things for what they were,
not what I thought they were.
Brian: Yep.
Judy: And, I think that's a healthy mind, to be able to look at where you are, in life,
and see where you really are. And, not get so frustrated because sometimes, what you're
thinking, isn't really the way it is. You've got this CD in your mind that you're playing
over and over again because you've heard it so many times when you were a kid. And, you
start believing it because you're hearing it. So you need to get that CD out of that
CD player in your brain and break it and throw it away. Because, you know, what you heard
over and over and over again, may not necessarily be the truth. It's the way, you look at yourself,
because somebody made you look that way. But, the way other people see you isn't' really
that way.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: So it makes you, healthy mind is knowing where you are and being happy with what you
are. And being able to get rid of the junk.
Brian: Yeah, absolutely. And you spoke about stress, and that's, I mean, a lot of people
have stress. I would reason to say that everyone has stress. And there's actually a Ted Talk
recently, which I found fascinating and it included medical references, which made it
more fascinating. But, she said that, I think she was a doctor, and she was saying that,
you know, she had touted how stress is evil and you shouldn't be stressed, you know. Be
stressed about not being stressed. And she did that for years, until she found out that
it's not the absence of stress, it's the acknowledgment that stress is your bodies way of preparing
you for the challenges that you're about to overcome.
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: And, looking at it in a positive light. And literally they saw people have like less,
a less of a risk of heart attack just by doing that over the years. And it's, it broadcast
itself to people around you, which, you know, you're contagious energy so to speak. So,
how do you communicate that to people that are coming on to your team, or people who
aren't' having a great time? How do you, you know, now that you have this solid mindset
that you've developed for the last, you know, 20 years? How do you communicate that to someone
who's new?
Judy: Just, to stop looking at the negative and start looking at the positive. I've been
an eternal optimist, and I've become more so. And my good friend was just saying that
she was get, you know, she had a, something was breaking out in her face and I said, you've
been stressed. Stop worrying so much, because everything you worried about, most of the
things you've been worried about, they're finished, and there was a good outcome. And
so it was no big deal, so don't look at the bad things until you're, it's proved that,
yeah, it's bad. You know, why worry about something that isn't even here. I mean, yes,
it's, sometimes you do have to worry. But, if you can't provide a solution, don't' even
think about it until you're proved that, till it's there. What you're worrying about may
never even happen. And so, don't think about the worst that could happen, think about the
best that could happen and aim for that. And it makes, it makes life more exciting but
you aim for the best instead of looking for the worst.
Brian: Yep. Yeah, and there's definitely some, there's a lot of, I could have a whole different
discussion about that. Because, you know, people a lot of times they worry and they
freak out and they have plan B and Q and R, and so on and so forth. But then, you know,
you do have to be practical, and you can't, you know, say, I'm gonna quit my job, start
building my Multi-level Marketing business today. And I'm gonna be making full time income
by 30 days cause I'm gonna work really hard. You know, you can't be reckless, but also,
you know, you can't worry about things you have no control over. And Hal Elrod, who I've
interviewed before, said that, worry is the act of projecting non acceptance into the
future. So, you're projecting the fact that you don't accept the future, even though it
hasn't happened yet. And it's really powerful thing to just kind of be able to pull back
from that. So, you talked about mental barriers and I think, and kind of touching on that.
One of, another favorite quote, I'm full of quotes. Is, the only walls that can hold you
back are those that you build for yourself. So, have you, I think you've had some, and
have, your other team members as well, had moments where they just, that realization
where they're just like, wow, I never realized that I was doing that to me.
Judy: Sometimes it's difficult for people to realize that. And, I don't like to tell
people what they're doing wrong, because that just gets people discouraged. When I was teaching
skiing, the best the person who was one of my examiners, so to speak, at the ski instructor
level, was saying, always look at the good things, and brag people up on the good things.
And then the bad things will just disappear. So, if somebody skiing has their butt stuck
out too far, instead of saying, you're butts stuck out too, sticks out too far, say instead,
wow, stand, oh, you look really good. Stand a little taller and you'll even look better.
So give them a solution to do what, to get rid of the problem instead of pointing out
what the problem. Because as soon as you point out to somebody they're problem, they focus
on the problem. It's human nature . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: you tell somebody, you're saying, um, um, too much and then they're gonna go, um,
oh, really, oh, um, oh, ya know . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: and they can't get away from it, because they're thinking about it so much. So, if
you just give them a positive thing to do, and say you're speaking, like, for example,
in the um situation, you can say, wow, you're really good at speaking in front of a group.
You know, if you pause, by not saying anything after each sentence, it makes the sentences
sound much more important. And, they're like, wow, okay, so, then they focus on saying a
sentence, and stopping, and then the um doesn't come out. So, if the people provide their
own solution, so to speak . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: it makes it much more valuable and they feel much more in control of themselves. If
they have the solution. And many times I'll say that, when I'll say they have a problem
I'll say, well, what do you thinks the most logical solution? And, many times they come
up with a good one. Sometimes it's interesting too, as a mentor to other people, sometimes,
I mean, it's great to be available via phone all the time. But don't feel that as soon
as it rings you have to pick it up. Because many times, I've, I remember once, a gal called
me and I didn't get to the phone right away, and, I wasn't home. And I didn't' hear my
cell phone ring, and when I got home, I listened to her message. And she's going, oh, I've
got an emergency call me, quick, quick, quick, quick! And I said, I thought to myself, okay,
that sounds really bad. So I called her back, and I said, what do you need? And she said,
oh, I figured it out. And so, I'm sure, that because she figured it out, she felt much
more in control than if I had figured it out for her.
Brian: Yeah, and in a previous company I had a similar thing where I was like, I need to
be available all the time. And, at the time we were growing significantly in Africa. And,
they're not on the same time zone and so my phone would be ringing like 3-4 o'clock in
the morning. And I'd, you know, just kind of roll over and pick it up. And it does not
do well, like you're not productive and it kind of, you know, you take the power away
from your distributors. And, you know, you don't empower them to find their own solution.
So, you're definitely not as productive as helping other people see that they already
have those solutions. So . . .
Judy: I know, I got a phone call once at three in the morning and I thought, oh my kids,
what's wrong, ya know? I said, hello, hello, and they, and then, there was this dead silence
and then they hung up. And I thought, oh, that's weird. And I didn't have my glasses
on so I didn't look at the caller ID until the next morning and it was definitely someone
from France. And they'd forgotten, it was morning for them but it . . .
Brian: Yep.
Judy: was the middle of the night for me, so.
Brian: Oh yeah, I've been doing stuff out of the country for like ten years. And I'm
still getting used to time zones. Thankfully I've never had that happen. But yeah, I mean,
when you're, when you have your downline and the people on your team. They do tend to become
family, and that kind of leads into the family pillar. You know, biological family, what
does a healthy family have to do with MLM?
Judy: I think a healthy family is, so important. I mean, when you look at, I like to use, like
maybe Donald Trump as an example. I mean, everybody thought years ago he had everything.
But, then his family life fell apart, and then he divorced. And, then he got married
to somebody else. And I think he divorced that next one. And then he got married to
somebody else. So, he's got these kids all over the place, and a couple ex wives. And
that's, you know, not a real healthy family situation. I mean, I'm sure, you know, that
he's making a do and he was thinking that's what he needed to do. And that's fine, but
to me a healthy family means that if you're kids have a football game, you can go. You
know, or if you're kids have a birthday party, you aren't working and you aren't, you know,
thinking about what you have to do and why you shouldn't be there, but you're there.
And you're like looking at your watch or looking at your phone and texting while you're at
your childs event. That to me is not healthy. But being able to, I know when one Nikon person
who's a guy said, he knew that he, he'd made it when he was able to be the room father
instead of the room mother. And, you know, and when they needed some, a parent to go
and be like a chaperone on a class trip, he would go, instead of his wife. And he said
that was so cool. Because the teachers were so impressed that there was a man, being a
chaperone with these, instead of, you know, another mother. And the kids loved it because
all the little boys, and even the little girls wanted to be with the daddy instead the mommy.
And so it's, to me, that's a healthy family. And that's the reason I stay in this business,
and I, I mean that's how I got, why I got in in the first place. Because of my boys,
I wanted to help my boys have a good education, and they got it. And when they graduated,
they owe any debts on their education, I didn't owe any debts on their education. Because
it was paid for as we went. And even while they were in school, we had extra debts, because
of the business. We were paying off our own debts too. And so that made the stress in
our own family much less because they didn't have, we didn't have, you know, have any bills
hanging over our heads. And we could do things that we wanted together as a family. To me,
that's healthy family.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And I said I can take care of my grandkids. My son can call me and say, hey mom, can you
pick up the kids after school for me? And I'll say, sure, no problem. If I had a nine
to five job, I couldn't do that.
Brian: Yeah. I was gonna point out the grandkids cause, you know, you post a lot about them
on facebook. And they are adorable.
Judy: They are.
Brian: And you may have gray hair, but you also have a Nintendo Wii.
Judy: I do!
Brian: And so . . .
Judy: As you well know, you play, I also have an Xbox.
Brian: I'm pretty sure, if I remember correctly, you beat me at Wii bowling but that's a different
story. But so, tell, I mean, what's your typical day like? And what have you been able to do
with your kids and your grandkids because of that, you know, freedom?
Judy: I say to the kids, let's go to the, let's go to Disney, I, my youngest son, who
was in the military at that time, he was in the army. And he was a doctor in the Army
and he was getting ready to go to Afghanistan, and before he went, I decided we need a family
vacation. So, both sons, and their families, we all went to Disney. And I was able to help,
you know, fund that. And, be able to do that kind of stuff. To be able to, if I want to
do something with the kids, or go somewhere with the kids, I've got the time . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: to do it. I can get myself a stupid little things, like I have an Xbox and a connect
in my house at memaw's house. And, you know, the kids want, yeah, in their room. And the
kids know how to do it. And, to be able to get the things that the kids love to do, the
little kids, love to do, and the big kids too. So that they love coming to memaw's house
because I've got some cool things for them to do. And, you know, they just enjoy being
here. I was at my son's one day and the boys said, you know, we haven't slept overnight
at your house in a long time memaw. I said, oh, okay, let's correct that, when do you
wanna come over? So that's what makes it nice. I can, you know, I can plan my life, around
my kids instead of around my work.
Brian: Yeah, that's awesome. And, I mean, kind of, it's, a lot of people look forward
to that, when they start building a Multi-level Marketing business. But, let's talk about
the other side of the coin, and I know you have a really great example of this. And a
really great, hilarious story, which is that a lot of times when you talk to your family
members, and you say, I'm starting this business, I'm gonna work really hard. You know, maybe
five years from now, we're gonna be able to go to Disney, and I'll have time off, and
we can afford to do these things. They're not always supportive of that. And . . .
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: I think you had a story, if I remember correctly, and this is probably three years
ago. So if I do remember it it's phenomenal. Your sister, and you . . .
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: were in, and please please tell that story.
Judy: Well, we had, my sister came over and she always said to me, stop talking, stop
talking about this business. I don't wanna hear anything more, so I never talk about,
and this was in the very beginning of the business. And she had some challenges with
some arthritic problems, and so I was basically wanting to really help her with it. I wasn't
trying to sell her, I was trying to give her. But she wanted, she, was stubborn. So, I never
said another word. So, this was, got in the business in '92 and in '98 we bought a house
down in Hilton, and I moved there full time after my ex retired from the dentistry business.
And he was doing a meeting, he was out of town and coming in later, and she and her
husband and child, and son, came to visit. And so it was in the days before direct deposit.
And, it was near the 15th of the month when we'd get our checks. And so I pulled up in
front of the mail box with her on the passenger side. I said, would you get my, our mail out
of the mailbox? And she said, sure, so she pulled them out, and I said, would you look
through and find the one that's got the green check inside. I want Roger, Roger wants me
to let him know as soon as possible what the amount of the check is this month. So, she
opens it up, and then she goes, pahh, I mean, it knocked the wind out of her. And I said,
what? And she said, oh my God, is this for one month? And I said, yes. And she said,
it is usually this amount every month? And I said, well how much is it? And she told
me, and I said, well I was expecting more. And she said, oh, okay. And then, we, got
back from our errand, and their best friends had been with them, and the best friends were,
not in the car with us with it happened. But, when we got back to the house, where the best
friends were kinda hanging out, and we walked in, and, the, my sisters best friend said,
ask me something about Nikon. And so I started telling her. My sister said, would you come
here a minute. So we went in the kitchen and she said, if they sign up, sign us up first
and then they'll be under us. I said, okay, okay. So, you know, the same sister I'm taking
to Europe with me on Sunday, on my dime because I'm, or my nickel I guess I should say. Because
I got a whole lot of frequent flyer miles and and I'm doing a Nikon meeting at Woolburn
in the U.K, for the presidents club in Europe. And then doing one at, in France, the weekend
before Thanksgiving. And do I said, do you wanna go along? And said, oh yeah. So, she's
very excited that we're getting ready to go on, she's going to Europe for the first time.
And that's only because of Nikon and I couldn't do that if I had still just, you know, still
worked in a hospital or managing a bill office. It just wouldn't happen.
Brian: Yeah, and I, there's some really good lessons and jokes in there. But I think, you
know, you got started in '92, and, you know, I'm sure you, you know, tried to get her interested.
And then she wasn't interested, but she had health problems. And there's a lot of Multi-level
Marketing companies that in some way shape or form help with health. And . . .
Judy: Yes.
Brian: when you're working with family, a lot of times, I've heard, this from people.
Is that they, I forget selling the product, I wanna give it to you, I want you to be healthy.
And family members, no, no, no, no, no, I, no, I don't want anything to do with that.
And they're just so, phobic of Network Marketing and Multi-level Marketing that they just,
they don't even wanna to touch the thing. Because they feel like it's contagious. And,
you know, I think the, that's one piece, to it is to recognizing that. But then the other
piece to it is that you waited years. And then let her come to you. Granted, you seeded
it, but she didn't know that. And, you know, I mean, how have you seen the power in showing
that with other people when they had similar, you know, reactions from family members?
Judy: Well, ya know, family members the hardest. But they're the people we wanna help the most.
And, I think, basically giving them the products to use, even if it's just for a month or two,
and saying, you know. One of the things I've said to my brother, I said, I was visiting
with them, and I said, you know, try this, and let me know what happens. Because, you
know, he had a physical challenge and I said, just let me know what happens. I want, you
know, I, figure if I do it with my family you'll tell me the truth. And that's what
I said.
Brian: Yeah, true.
Judy: I said, try it and use it and then tell me the truth about what really happen. And,
you know, let's talk. And so he was impressed too. And so you know, when I said try it and
tell me what happens, because you'll give me the truth, if you really try it. He, you
know, discovered that, son of a gun, these things do work. But, I, many times too, if
you, there's positive and negatives as to being successful in the business. If, you
aren't yet successful in the business you need to talk to your family and they think
you're crazy. If you are successful, and you talk to your family, there's that sibling
rivalry thing, and many of them figure they're not gonna try it because they never catch
up to you anyhow, and so why should we do it. You know, it's not, it's not attractive
to them.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: Because you've already done it. And I'd never get, and they'll, then they say,
well that's because you started so long ago, I could never do what you've done. And, so
it's, family is difficult. It really is difficult. Sometimes, you know, the kids might, my oldest
son was a gold distributor in Nikon. And then his life got too busy with his real job, and
he thoroughly enjoyed what he's doing. So I'm not gonna tell him, you're crazy because
you enjoy what you're doing. Go ahead and do what you wanna do.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: You have to, you know, people like to do what they wanna do. You can't force somebody
into the business, you can't force somebody into seeing what you see.
Brian: Yeah, and that's . . .
Judy: Showing them you're business is fine, but you can't force.
Brian: Yeah, and it's definitely not for everyone. And it's not for everyone all the time. I
mean, you're proof of that, is that, you know, you were not interested at all. But it hit
you at the right time. And . . .
Judy: Yeah, at the right time.
Brian: Serendipity, destiny, whatever you wanna call it. You know, that happens more
often than people think. And . . .
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: sometimes when they get a no, and they focus so *** that no, then they should
just step back instead of pushing the person away with continually asking, they just step
back and then six months, a year, whatever later, they go, hey, so, about that thing.
Are you still doing that thing? And, you know, they come back. So, speaking . . .
Judy: The guy that sponsored me quit. So he lost . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: a lot of money by quitting.
Brian: Oh, he quit?
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: Wow.
Judy: Before, you know, I'd reach my first leadership level, and then, he's one of these
job hoppers, you know. He goes from thing to thing to thing and so he just can't be
focused, I guess. And so he ended up dropping out. And, you know, I ran into him maybe four
years ago, or five years ago. And he said, are you still doing that? And I said, yeah,
he said, still good? And I said, I'm not gonna tell ya how good it is because you're gonna
be really sick.
Brian: And a lot, I mean, you know, the, I've talked to people before and they look at me,
or they look at someone else. And they go, man, you're so lucky, you know. And I'm like,
it has nothing to do with luck, and if it does, it's that you make your own luck. And
a lot of times, the way that you do that is just by doing it for long enough. Because
. . .
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: eventually a person talks to a person talks to a person, talks to a person, talks
to a person, talks to a person, who, you know, is the person that hits the top rank and brings
in 20,000 people over ten years. And, it's yeah, it's definitely powerful. And you talked
about, which I don't, I mean, I know family, and that's a whole different topic. But, society
too, you know, that's the next pillar is the society pillar, of wanting to help society
as much as you want to help your family. And, what is meant by that?
Judy: I think a lot of times, if you think in your own life and the life of people that
you know. And if you support particular charities, or a particular church, or some sort of organization,
and you call, and you see on your caller ID that their calling you. And you're thinking,
oh shoot, I wonder what they want? Then you don't have healthy society . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: because usually when they're calling you they need, either funds, or they need
your time.
Brian: Yep.
Judy: And, if you, you know, if you're not, if you're stressed about your job, or stressed
about anything, you're not able to give either of your time, or of your finances. And to
me healthy society is being able to give your, give of your time, and give of your finances,
as necessary. I'm very active in meals on wheels locally, and I deliver every Wednesday.
And in the winter time I go in extra early every other Wednesday so I can help pack up
the frozen soup for the people. And, I know that I was at a, I volunteer also to be on
a committee for them for a function. And they said, we gotta find somebody, the people who
used to donate the cake, that bakery that used to donate the cake said that they can't
afford to do it this year. And, so we gotta figure out, you know, how we're gonna pay
for all these cakes for this dessert for this big fund raising dinner. And I said, no problem,
I'll pay for it. You know, and my friend and I did it together.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: I mean, because that was our little way of helping. And they said, you pay, you're
gonna pay for it? I said sure, what's, you know. What, how much, it can't be that much
to pay for a couple cakes, and it wasn't. But it's the fact that I didn't have to think
about it and go look at my budget to figure out if I could afford to throw a few hundred
dollars here, a few hundred dollars there, to help with this charity that I really like.
To be able to do that is, as the commercial would say, it's priceless.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: It's, a friend was doing some work for me a few years, quite a few years ago. It
was when we were still down in the Carolinas. And he was doing some work in my house for
me doing some painting. And I said what are you up lately? And he says, well, we're planning
on going to a, I can't remember the name of the country, in South America. And he said,
I said, well what are you going to do down there? And he says, we're gonna build a church.
I said, that is so cool. He said, they don't have one, and they have their services outside.
So, we're gonna go down and build a church for them. And I said, that is, I said, I really
respect you for doing that. And he said, and I said, well when are you going? And he said,
depends on when we raise enough money. And I said, well how much more do you need? And
he said $5,000, I said, done, I'm writing the check now. And he was like, are you kidding?
And I said, no, I'm serious.
Brian: I'm sure he was off the ladder when you said that, right?
Judy: No, he was not on the ladder when I said it. But, to be able to see the look on
somebodies face when you're able to help.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: Ahh . . .
Brian: And at the most important time too.
Judy: Yes. And same with the meals on wheels. When I deliver those meals it's not crossing
anything just by telling them. But see, you know, we get to know these people really well.
And if I miss a couple weeks in a row because I'm out of town or whatever. I get there and
they say, have you been okay? What are you up, where have you been? And then I'll, they,
were the centerpiece of their day. Sometimes we're the only people they see all day. And
so, to be able to give them my time for that, it's cool. I love it.
Brian: Yeah. And it's not, I mean, I kind of stress this cause it's always hard to explain
without examples. But, the thought about giving, it's about giving where it counts. And . . .
Judy: Yes.
Brian: you had one story that you told me, ages ago, that I still, it still hit me. It's
about a teacher. In a way that you did the same thing. And, do you remember the story
that I'm talking about?
Judy: Well, I know theres a couple of them cause kids, the kids and reading is very close
to my heart. But there was a, something, one of them is there's something called donerchoice.org,
or, yeah, donerschoice.org, and you can donate to school. And if you, you can donate, just,
you know, as little as $10, and there's no overhead to speak of. If you don't wanna pay
overhead, you don't. But if you wanna pay a little overhead you can check to give a
little overhead to the website. But, I bought out a phonics, the whole thing. Because if
you're, you can fund the whole program if you want. And it was for a school in North
Carolina. And the, it was not a wealthy school, and so, I did it right before Christmas. Every
Christmas I like to go find something like that that's like, oh cool. And I got all these,
I think it's laying around, like over there somewhere. That, all these thank you cards
from each child in that classroom sent me a little. They made it out of, you know, colored
paper and sent me thank you notes. Thanking me for the reading program. And my sister,
before she retired, was a teacher. And she taught at a poor school and they didn't have
a lot of money and so I'd help her set up her classroom at the beginning of the year.
And I say, what do you, you need anything this year, you know. And, if she needed something,
instead of her having to pay for it out of her own pocket, I'd do it, because I could.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And, it, and I love doing it. And so, it was like, okay, teachers work really hard
and sometimes they just don't have the money to . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: pay some of the extras that they'd wanna do for their kids. So I'm like, hey, I'll
help.
Brian: Yeah. And I have my, How to Win Friends And Influence People, sitting behind me because
I'm re-reading it again. And one of my favorite books, and he's, right in the beginning, right
now, he's talking about how no one ever did anything because they want it, like, they
wanted to do it. They didn't do anything unless they wanted to do it. And the same thing goes
for charity. Is that, you don't give money unless you want to give it.
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: And, it's because that feeling you get. You know, it's, you know, I mean, there's
a variety of other reasons to do it. But a lot times it's just because of that, knowing
that you impacted someone's life like that. So, I mean, is that something that's really
important to you? Or, you know, I guess, why?
Judy: Yeah, I don't, when somebody calls me on the phone and asks for a donation, I usually,
I don't give any. Because I don't know who this is. And, I say, I can pick and choose
my own and I gifted to charities that I know. It's like the whole fire company story. I
mean, things that are near and dear to my heart and that I know need the funding just
as much as anything else. And, again, like a guy who was building, I know where the money
is going.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And that's, maybe that's, sounds selfish in some way. But I wanna know where the money
is going.
Brian: Yep.
Judy: And, feel that my money is doing this or that. And do I kind of love it because,
you know, it's like my local library when I send a donation. They'll send me a note
back saying, okay, we bought this book and this book and this book.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And, you know, with the money that you donated. And I'm like, cool, that's cool,
you know.
Brian: And that's another reason, the book was talking about how money is just man made.
And it's all about just giving, it's a . . .
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: a measurement of value.
Judy: That's . . .
Brian: And if you give $100 over here, just you know, oh, you called me up and you need
some money, here's $100. You know, from the society benefit that may not be the same amount
of value as $100 given to, you know, you're painter, who's gonna go build a church in
a foreign country.
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: And, so, perfect segway into finance is, Multi-level Marketing, I once heard this
and I just always loved it. But it was, work for 50 years, rest for five, that's the traditional
way of, you know, you have a job, you work for 50 years, then you retire and you can
rest for five before your health is ehh, not so much. And, the alternative is with Multi-level
Marketing, you work for five years, and rest for 50. But, you know, now that you've hit
the top rank of the company and you're generating some substantial residual income, what's stopping
you from retiring?
Judy: Because I love it. I love the people, number one, and, you know, I still. If I see
somebody who could really benefit from being in the business, I will, I'll talk to them
about it.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And I haven't personally sponsored anybody in quite a few years. But I put them, I introduced
them to people in my organization. And let the people in our organization sponsor them.
I mean, I still get the benefit from it.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: But, and my business is still growing. It's just that, I'm do, being able to do less.
So, when people say to me, oh, when are you going to retire? And I say, probably never.
Because I, I mean, I'm going to the U.K. . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: on Sunday, and on the Wednesday after, I'll be in Paris, and it's all part of the
business. Why would I wanna quit that? I was just in, at convention in Las Vegas, for the
business. And I had a really good time. And, you know, it's, I was last, I was in Brussels,
and, oh, I was at the Con Film Festival. You saw my pictures on facebook. And it was all
because of the business. So, why would I wanna quit that, because it's also, it's deductable.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: I mean, there's so many financial benefits. Especially right now it's November and, getting
involved with a home based business is so important, especially in November. The financial
advantages are amazing. You know, if you don't like to pay for your snow plowing, you don't
have to pay for all of it if you've got a home based business.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: Some of it could be deductible. So you can join the business now, and you're finances
will improve even if you don't sell a single product. As long as you bought some products,
and you show a loss at the end of the year, can change your financial system, situation
at the end of the year so that you don't pay as much income tax.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: So you can end up getting more money from the government or paying less money to
the government, I should say, just because you started a home based business. Even if
you don't do a lot with it. And then you might find, as I did that you end up building a
real business. And like, son of a gun, you know, this home based business stuff is pretty
good.
Brian: Yeah, yeah. And it's fun, but it is a business, and I think . . .
Judy: Yes.
Brian: I've seen a lot of people, and I've kind of, you know, I've overheard, and very,
you know, reinforce the positive after that fact. But, people will go and say, oh, you
know, join this business, you know, and you can work and you'll never have to work again.
You'll get paid while you sleep. And that's, you know, that mindset of like getting into
it to just do it, be done with it and walk away forever, that doesn't really always take
route. And, do you, have you ever experienced that?
Judy: Well I think in, when you're looking or when people get involved with Network Marketing,
and there's three classes of people that get involved. There are the pretenders, and they
have this mental list of what they're going to do or where they're going to go. But, they
don't really follow through with it. And 80% of the people who get involved in Network
Marketing are pretenders. At least sometimes they start there, and they may move on. And
then the other classification is amateurs. And, the amateurs make their little list of
people they're gonna talk to, and it's a very short list, they they drain it quickly and
say, well this didn't work.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: So, I'm not gonna do it. But then you have the professionals.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And they have an active candidate list. And I like that better than a prospecting
list, calling it a candidate list. Because it just, to me it sounds better. I'm, semantics
are big things with me. And, these professionals are always paying attention and they're always
aware and they network on purpose, so to speak. And, they build relationships, they educate,
they inspire. And they build and transfer belief. These are the professionals and they
listen well at face to face meetings. I think it's kind of funny, somebody said once, that
if you're doing your presentation or your doing a, talking to somebody about your business,
if your lips are moving, then you should either be introducing, pointing, or reading. Other
than that, you listen to what they say because if you aren't saying, this, or introducing,
or reading . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: something then you're not, then what you're saying isn't of value. What you're
listening to is of much better value. So, you know, it's a good way to think about it
because you wanna be a Network Marketing professional.
Brian: Right.
Judy: Not a Network Marketing amateur.
Brian: Right.
Judy: And you can be, you know, people don't become professionals till years and years
of study behind them. My son's an MD and after college he had four years of med school, and
then a couple three years of residency, being internal medicine. Then a couple more, year,
two-three years, two years I guess, of residency again to become a gastrologist. So, it took
a long time to get where he is. And does he have a good job now? Yes, he does, the same
thing with my other son. He's an engineer. It took him four years of going through college
and then, what he does isn't really what his college degree prepared him for. But he learned
on the job, while he was working. And now he's, you know, one of the big bosses of his
company. Because he's learned, and he's adjusted. And if you wanna be a professional in anything,
you have to learn and, you have to adjust.
Brian: Yeah. And so for someone who, you know, sees that and kind of hears the, they hear
the difference between a pretender, an amateur, and a professional, and maybe they acknowledge,
okay, I'm a little bit of a pretender, maybe I'm a little bit of an amateur. What is something
that they can action on today, to start moving themselves towards being a professional?
Judy: Well, you have to set a real goal. I mean, you have to have a good vision. You
have, like I said in the very beginning, you have to know where you're going. And you know
what you're gonna do and how you're gonna get there, where you're going, where you're
gonna go. And, set your daily goals. And, like, you read everyday. I've got, in fact
that's what took me a while to find this book because I gotta book shelf over here with
things, like Think And Grow Rich, as you talked about. And, The Complete Classic Text, oh,
I've got two of em. Get this, look at this, this is cool. I got the modern Think and Grow
Rich, but I have a classic.
Brian: Oh, I want that.
Judy: You want it? Yeah, so you know, you have, and then I have another shelf of books
over there and I have a shelf of books behind me. So, everyday you should read something.
Brian: Yep.
Judy: Readers are learners, readers can also, they can help their business. You do some
calls. Keep a list, we were talking about being a professional. Obviously if you're
listening to this you have a computer. So, on your outlook, on your calendar, whatever
you do, you have a business calendar and your personal calendar. They should be two separate
things. Unless you're doing this full time like me, then they mold, because their very
close to being the same. But, on the same calendar, you put down, if you talk to somebody,
put it down. Write everything down. Because you want on your, you want every, at the end
of every month, you want, to print up your calendar and look at it. And see if you have
a full calendar, or a fools calendar. Because you're only fooling yourself that you're really
doing the business. And then you keep that. I have that all, every year. I have those
printed up. This is this years, you know, I . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: I print up this in case I ever get audited by the IRS. They can see, what I do on a daily
basis.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And also it's good for you. And it's good if your sponsor says, well what are you
doing? You can pull your little calendar out and say, here's the print out of what I've
done. What should I do more of?
Brian: Yeah. And you . . .
Judy: that's . . .
Brian: you talk about auditing, and that's important because you get audited by the IRS,
that's one thing. But, if you audit yourself . . .
Judy: Yes.
Brian: then that's another thing. That was actually mentioned, or it is mentioned in
How To Win Friends And Influence People, I think is that looking at someone's success.
And I don't remember the guys name, but, he went through and he would write down everything
he did everyday.
Judy: Yes.
Brian: And then, at the end of the week, on the exact same day, and the exact same time,
he would go back through and look at it and be like, is that something that I can be proud
of myself?
Judy: I actually, I wrote it down, in my, I actually wrote . . .
Brian: With like a pen? Like one . . .
Judy: I did it in pen. One of those old fashion things that looks like this, yeah.
Brian: You have one? Oh that's rare.
Judy: I do, yeah. I do, I when I get really really serious and decide, okay, I'm gonna
be really, get in some, do some stuff. I'll actually write it down by, because it makes
me, yes I put it on the computer, but, if I put it on the computer, and I write it down.
Because at the end of each day, writing down what I wanna do, it seems to imprint in me,
a lot more, than if just typing it into the computer. Because I can look at that and,
it's, I wrote it in my own hand writing. And I put my goals in my own handwriting. And
I can look at it, and it means a lot more than seeing the list on the screen on my computer.
Brian: Yeah.
Judy: And it's there, but it's also in there.
Brian: Yeah. That's awesome. And thank you so much. I mean, I, the advice that you show,
the stories, and I think stories are really impactful. Because they hit people and, you
know, case in point, they stay with people for four years. I mean, I can't believe I
remember the story about your sister, and the location and, details.
Judy: Yeah.
Brian: And it's probably because I shared it, again, and again. But, thank you so much.
I'm gonna put your social links to your website, links to our podcast, and all the books, all
of the books that we talked about. But thank you and look forward to having you on again
soon.
Judy: Bye-bye.