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it's soon
on the phone it is a pleasure to welcome to the program
uh... the director ken
uh... the director co-director i should say with uh... sarah bernsen davek maybe
mcmahon
and all
the central park five
five i can't thank so much for joining us my pleasure thanks for having me
uh... boss
the the film of last night is an incredible
it is an incredible documentary it's it is it is in many respects heartbreaking
and enraging
it is of course the story uh...
teenagers who were in many pata how else to put this they were
railroaded uh...
uh... through their coerced confessions that were held accountable and
imprisoned for years
uh... for a horrible
assault and *** of a woman in central park that took place
uh... back in a nineteen eighty-nine telus
how how you decided how you came about
to stop
patent really the the subject it was born in my own daughters
tons of outrage and and fairness she had um...
cotton you know
became familiar with this case uh... uh... in two thousand three
when five had been reasonably tolerated not a good it did them because they had
to sort out their full spenders
and um... she became actually interested in trying to tell destroyed it wasn't
told the those people who will remember
nineteen eighty nine was a real feeding frenzy were not just mistakes by cops
and prosecutors
but clearly mistakes by the media who bought uh... the the scenario that the
cops uh... and prosecutors
promoted hook line and tinker without the usual skepticism that journalism
sort requires less to do
and had anyone applied that skepticism cops prosecutors are media that blew up
five would not have been in the position they were witches serving after thirteen
years of sentence
and she begat divided to write a book and her husband david mcmahon and i had
a great privilege of looking over her shoulder issues beginning
to work on that and and looked at each other all three of us to take my
goodness it's a film to him so we work for several years
uh... herbert terrible came out last year in two thousand eleven
our film has just been released theatrically around the country
and um... it's just an attempt to give lawyers uh... to the five who were
denied avoid for the time they were turned into pariahs they were the
wolfpack wilding
uh... bunch of of deep in animals the language of jim crow america at the
uh... beginning of the twentieth venturing out the the progressive city
that new york is who
supposedly was at the end of the twentieth century
and and to also add some tough questions about what actually happened why did
this ms carriage of justice take place
unified is there some recess it's about this because the
the stories of these individual
now men
um is is just is is just
so is
itself painful
that is it is i think that heartbreak is a really good word to use
one is outraged i think one one
sees the way in which the newest tightening around them
uh... without any apparent help their attorneys with the exception of one were
especially useless
and the community turned against an intended to their own family members
uh... turned against him and they were innocent that they were young kid duty
done pretty well lower middle class in school they hadn't done anything wrong
and they didn't know about lowering up but they're likely to the park that
night making the trip that was one other felony committed
that they may or may not have our witness
uh... but what they would we'd know for sure happened that night is a warning
called with the improvement central park jogger *** someone else to that
and the cops bullet they added
his name two days before on another result and didn't follow through and
then
this guy went on because they became so focused on the five
the guy went on to *** and name and um... and even kill pregnant woman
before he was not caught by the police goodbye people in the community and and
no one
in that vein summer of eighty nine thoughtful gps kid don't know anything
about this crime maybe they've unknown demand sample that we have
uh... matches and they didn't walk it from one case in other they were
detectives working both cases
and what happened to the this becomes tragedy compounded uh... it becomes
tragedy obviously for the five
obviously for the original victim of the ***
uh... but it's all for their family impeach one of the five has as special
health but they have to live through with their own family that that
challenges them to the very core of their being
and um... you know how much it's an attempt at a who are you and what
actually happened
uh... that night
i think it also i mean it certainly he'll indian
some ways i mean that is the the focus of the film
what what happens or happened for me
is when you see this is sort of the
error come up and i i didn't
and uh... new york city
uh... in nineteen eighty nine i did live in new york city in two thousand two
as someone who is living in massachusetts
at a time uh... in in nineteen eighty nine i'm new
more about
the attached
then haydn
to about the exoneration
and it struck me i mean that was one of the things i want to ask you just try
guest was her from the film a kiss them but i wanted to bring into the service
dynamic is
early on i mean at the at the opening of the film you played the confession from
the
of makers who was also
no had i'd like to say had gone on to kill other people uh...
moses
from it from the film making standpoint was that to bring out sort of the the
tragedy of the beginning because i_d_ i didn't even realize that these people
have been exonerated in which was that much more sort of
the it was that much more painful in yet he feels it is part of part of our
company and i i really mean our company because i lived in new hampshire at the
time i spent time time in new york i was aware of what was going on
it with a crime of the country etc i think that the player
the coverage was not just you know saturation coverage in new york city but
around the country and indeed the world
picked up on this is a symbol of the decay of the beneath the lawlessness of
the fifties
how much we lost control of our youth when in fact the crime was committed by
a
appropriate and the psychopathic uh... guy and uh... you deal with strangely
enough of the guy who comes forward
and admitted mistakes something that the city of new york haven't done other cops
or the prosecutors have and i know that or even the media for that matter i was
aware to how little coverage happened when they were exonerated and and that
enrage me edit it would later in a rage sarah
i think that this is uh... you know what we did is we devoted to move the
confession to the beginning for that
no matter what you believe going in what you knew or didn't know you knew that
there was an alternative
a narrative that could have been presented at the time
and that you get far enough away from that original confession that maybe you
haven't forgot net but by the time without israeli is the name of the man
showed up again
you hurt in full of rage because you realize not only has what happened to
the boy's been so unfortunate
but
calm but there is somebody who's right before them
that there are debate before their eyes that they have in jail that summer
picketed and and they can't
he more than the blinders of their scenario have and put on them in and we
thought it was an important device so that
when they read about a rated at the end of the film and and incumbent no
it's no news story
it suggests that it has more power than left a question of whodunit
then a question of
how could people have possibly happened the way it did
and that's why the film a structured ended and people go through many many
stages of
of anger and outrage the you know the sense of fairness that that struck there
tho
strongly in and the rest of it
uh... but also the emotions the heartbreak that that you mentioned all
of those you go through in a way as you begin to realize their but for the
greats of god collide
when when you speak of are complicity one thing that that also
to occurred to me
during the film after the film is is a comparison to
they were ida store two films made about the the so called memphis
three these were three
white teenagers if lempert theory and there's actually been three films made
about them and and you begin to realize ripping failures of justice uh...
happened all the time in america and
uh... it seems fitting that in that case and part of the liberty of that is that
they're white kids the problem is is that these are are black and hispanic
kid and
and put them the anonymity is even more painful that happens all the time uh...
and
and we have to figure out of the country
whether liberty and justice for all
you just the window dressing of our pledge of allegiance
or stumping that's real that we have to insist on and i think that that
gotta be front-and-center there are two who many people
that have been a goner aided by the end of this project and by d_n_a_ there to
many people i'll bet have color confessions coerced or either make fall
confessions for of variety of complicated reasons that we might
not believer there are possible in certainly don't believe that we'd be
possible of it but you'd never know what would happen
in the strength of interrogations to remember these are fourteen fifteen
sixteen-year-old kid
who work in interrogation sweeper
finest that new york had to offer for upwards of thirty hours and selves
usually without their parents' certainly without a lawyer
and uh...
that terrifying standing ellen and i was also struck by the there
uh... i think's antennas
other felt just involved amy he he clearly um... you he felt guilty just
because you told his kids are going to play in the park at night but i
also i mean i think it was a real sense that
parents i mean the what when you talk about the sort of the the
jeannie equal justice and the sort of the
the resources and the facilities that uh...
that these kids had at their disposal data horrible lawyers almost is short of
one that they have parents who didn't necessarily know how to nobody knew had
i had a work in the system and nobody understood their rights and in each one
whether they credit pepper tragedy of uh... parents hoping
to help but ending up
being income wage feeling tremendously guilty because they had
engineered
uh... or helped to engineer or encouraged at the cooperation that would
result in
indeed confessions and these videotaped statement at the end of hours and hours
of interrogation
that would eventually hang these kids that no matter the fact that they were
in conflict and peace no matter
but they with their unknown uh... route but you know steven sample regardless of
the fact that that there was no d_n_a_ match to anything to the hugely bloody
crime scene
and there was nothing of the crime scene on the boys and then another boy from a
crime scene
you would think all of this exculpatory evidence would be just that that would
at least uh... permit somebody even if they were locked and loaded on the five
to entertain at least professionally you wouldn't you would think it would be
part of your job description
to entertain alternative mary it's just like a champ master
and have to
say brothers several different ways that i could approach this
uh... and it just didn't happen in chest
didn't happen and that to me is
is a tragedy and it's compounded by the fact that the parents were all their all
hoping to do the best being overwhelmed by the system having jobs in other you
noted that they had to take care of and being potentially all manipulated by the
taxes nobody with their saying
you have right you don't have to pay anything
no and no one from the city known as the detectives none of the uh... prosecutors
involved in this case would uh...
uh... would speak to you and you made that clear upfront believed that week
that you know in a very unfortunate we would have been happy to have always is
in the government in fact we do because we went out of my way up i believe to
find out what they were staying in his company's isn't press releases and cut
statement and uh... thing like that
and we interviewed lots of other journalist who covered that the trial at
the time and we feel we could bring justice but
they paired behind this group of that we will do it that the five had launched
against facility
uh... in two thousand three nearly a decade ago which by the way ahead that
was paid for the clothes put on it it's just
innovative dave
just ongoing immediately
jump ewga request on the five that they can be no asking women penthouse father
their entire employment history and his entire medical records
and then badin felder not forthcoming with just simple note the detectives are
are required to take an are required to file and all the time they can't find
them weather delayed him
judges they've gotten a act exasperated that slow paper that
um... but they were just trapped in an in this story and and that's the thing
that
that so frustrating when you look at it d this is a tragedy that did not have to
happen in in the course of your film making your daughter's research for her
book um
is
earn get the sense or so years through back channels
have off the record conversations where any of the people who were involved
in sending these five to jail for from anywhere from seven to
twelve fifteen years i did any of them express any remorse that any of them say
that we just got caught up in the system or did he was there any indication that
you know this is just the way that we would do police work at that time
let me let me be very very careful
principal detectives and uh...
uh... assistant
ph
uh... having no way uh... in their back and also to speaker off the record
a comment in any way indicated any remorse any sort of uh... being assigned
to regret at what took place
uh... they are continuing to input but thats
took place it all in good faith but you can have a fourteen-year-old kid
it you know under police interrogation for fourteen fifteen hours are ok thirty
hours
get the wrong confession outlet real guy girl
and called in good faith
uh... it c_n_n_ wyoming stand about it which they all perjured intel's on that
and i think that they didn't read these kids and anything they just after what
happened
and if it takes thirty as i get what happened you know damn well but that's
not the case
there have been others so who are constrained in unable to speak who have
spoken off the record
and indicate event that uh... you know that that department have egg on its
face it they made a mistake that that
you know this is uh... have been a terrible travesty of justice task i
happened to be careful because or record comments made to journalists which we
are
uh... capturing that way
and and and in fact the city is superior
being uh... some
of your footage is my understanding if you can't do anything at all of our our
outtakes dinar notes open this production which is an incredibly
outrageous um... parker a number of reasons one of the obviously elation of
our journalistic privileges
i think by election of the first amendment it's a violation of the new
york journalistic shield laws
it's uh... a huge fishing expedition intended only to find if you know
inconsistencies
uh... between comments but that would have made you know like ooh contam you
told me you and into the park at nine oh one you told burned and burned in the
command
how did you wouldn't mind to do you always lie
and it's also is yet another is cynical gesture
that'd keeping their um...
tragedy from having a period but at the end of it you know just
ab in closure is important not just for the victim
not just for the five and their families but for the city of new york and why did
the is is a failure as the reporter jim dwyer now the new york times then of
newsday as
it's just people who got stock in a mistaken there still a stack of a
mistake and the said everybody makes mistakes endures sort of measured by
whipping cream alone up to your plastic and i think that that day the
prosecutors in the early in the press uh... but the detectives all of the
folks involved in this
in this kind of lynching
uh...
have not owned up to the their culpability and it's not my job to and
they come on up to it it might have to tell a story of what happened and at
their job and that david make man's job and that's all we've tried to do
it doesn't because as you state you know you know adhere outrage into your heart
rate
and and you know one thing about the complicity of the city and talking about
the in in
many respects the media because it seems to me that this is still been sis widely
unreported and write it's one thing that you could look at it and it's because
the media
with silent at the time of their own vacation of their convictions which
happened
exactly twelve years ago this month
uh... and ten years ago this month in two thousand and two judge uh... acting
on a about have on the part of the district attorney
as well as the defendant
asking for vacation the conviction configuring the new evidence that the
actual replica stepped forward uh... that there was
so much silent on the part of the media
that they permitted the reactionary forces to be the only story out there
right so
all the story has been a batboy which is both be there often a technicality are
ok that they really do do it and somehow they've been *** and nobody
has invested in talks with the uh... with the exception of a few
in relief sorted saying wait a second we need to be aware
of the kind of mistake that was that
uh... tape it happened in the early sixties a man named george with more
who recently ironically died dot
two or three months ago
the new york times adequate affordably to airline
he had
eventually haddock
confession coerced uh... answers to deal crimes that were really terrible
and uh... their immediate pick up the case entered a tentative alibis and
found out they were spellman
and eventually led to his big variation in relief
and that
eventually late tomorrow and im the right that we all enjoy
this case on the other hand
led to the death penalty being reinstituted in new york state
uh... because of the outrage was so strong over this crime that symbolism
that it meant that
you know the frail
uh... white woman versus the black b_-fifty lucrative so d imagery of jim
crow america this is the imagery
of birth of the nation in the imagery of of of gone with the wind
uh... driven imagery that's till around uh... when you when you can either way
in which rate
uh... causes americans the vibrator though horribly whether it's in our
political arena or just in our personal lives janet and it's completely
important edges blow the whistle in today
vicki who we are and hold a mirror up
and it's a constant there were all the blind
you know we're all took mine
the the fat
earth the west memphis three could be so celebrated hub wonder if that's not a
function of
concentration in new york being able to judge what's going on
on in the south but unable to come to terms with their massive massive failure
in this case well i i i think that that may be the case uh... you know i am
uh... entering working on another documentary about the the salt that
history is committed
objected to these people are unable to other people in canada in nineteen
and she uh... a younger ticket had actually done the due diligence and
found the name of mc head straight
and then nobody solitude nobody tracked it down nobody
went and we could have averted a tragedy and i think
that uh... that attorneys that needs to be uh...
uh... examined because in many ways that may lead to y
people didn't question other aspects at the time of this
uh... crime and then later when the regatta rated during the real
investigation the bottom suffocating senate aficionado i want to pursue this
but i i do think it has to do with lack of judgement on the part of our media
that couldn't believe that this could happen right in our own backyard but
ghetto new yorkers r dot are debating um...
this topic physical laws senate efficacy and and and many other things that trip
but why
uh... you know what we think of as a liberal progressive city at the
beginning of the twentieth first century and not some horrible jim crow thing in
the about and they've gotta run i want to just ask you finally has has is is
jordan doing this film
as a change the way that you perceive any because it
many respects this is obit of the departure in some respects i think from
your other films and it has it has it changed
or perspective on
cannot just on so making bob why you make films and
you know i think you'd it can't happen really i'd by i do not understand that
this represents because of the extraordinary contribution of david nick
van who i am had a great pleasure of collaborating with or you know fourteen
years and
the president of my daughters there that makes her father really proud i've
enjoyed that sort of newt sort of new creative stylistic things that are
introduced into this town
but indeed almost all of the films but i've made over the past thirty five
years i have had to do in one way shape or another and write that's why the
civil war happened i'd felt it was the heart of the story of baseball with
jackie robinson to attention and the *** leagues that have been a
uh... separate but athletically equal uh... league but denied a chance to play
at the highest level where it's part of jazz the only artforum uh... that
americans have invented recognize you could tell what were around the world
that was born in an african american community it's part of the story of
thomas jefferson and jack johnson the first african-american heavyweight it's
the story of mark twain uh... as these are all subject of films that nato i
think when you scratch that surface of american history you
an evident lee without having to look for a come up with questions and issues
about race to these are not unfamiliar stories to me but i do think that
they're contemporary now is what makes and perhaps more shocking and more
visceral for those of us who are struggling to understand the
inconsistencies in the tragedies in this case
well it's an incredibly powerful film laid back and recommend that people see
it uh...
uh... so i want to congratulate them
uh... yourself and uh... david in
uh... your daughter sarah
uh... it's it really is
burgess an amazing film
very very moving and i appreciate you taking time to talk to us about it
it's been my pleasure thanks so much burger king me a chance to talk about
film we're very proud of it