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IS PSALM 83 A PROPHECY ABOUT AN END TIME WAR BETWEEN
ISRAEL AND ITS NEIGHBORS, OR IS IT SOMETHING ELSE? MANY
PEOPLE LIKE JOEL ROSENBERG, DISMISS IT AND POINT INSTEAD
TO THE WAR OF GOD & MAGOG IN EZEKIEL 38 & 39 AS THE NEXT
END TIME PROPHETIC WAR THAT WILL TAKE PLACE IN THE
MIDDLE EAST. BUT THERE ARE MANY OTHER RESPECTED BIBLE
PROPHECY EXPERTS WHO ARGUE STRONGLY THAT THE NEXT END
TIME WAR PROPHESIED FOR THE MIDDLE EAST IS THE ONE
DESCRIBED IN PSALM 83. STAY TUNED FOR VIEWS FROM BOTH SIDES.
[MUSIC] LAMB AND LION MINISTRIES PRESENTS CHRIST
IN PROPHECY, A PROGRAM THAT FOCUSES ON THE FUNDAMENTALS
OF BIBLE PROPHECY, SHOWING HOW CURRENT EVENTS IN THE
NEWS RELATE TO BIBLICAL PREDICTIONS OF END TIME
EVENTS AND THE SOON RETURN OF JESUS. NOW, HERE'S YOUR
HOST, DR. DAVID REAGAN.
GREETINGS IN THE NAME OF JESUS, OUR BLESSED HOPE, AND
WELCOME TO CHRIST IN PROPHECY. A MAJOR
CONTROVERSY HAS ERUPTED IN RECENT YEARS AMONG BIBLE
PROPHECY EXPERTS WHO BELIEVE IN PREMILLENNIALISM, THE
VIEW THAT JESUS WILL RETURN TO THIS EARTH AT THE END OF
THE TRIBULATION TO REIGN FOR A 1,000 YEARS. THE
CONTROVERSY CENTERS AROUND PSALM 83. IT BEGAN IN 2008
WITH THE PUBLICATION OF THIS BOOK, "ISRALESTINE," BY BILL
SALUS. THE THESIS OF THIS BOOK IS THAT PSALM 83
DESCRIBES AN END TIME WAR BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE
NATIONS THAT SHARE A COMMON BORDER WITH IT- NAMELY,
LEBANON, SYRIA, JORDAN, EGYPT AND THE GAZA STRIP.
BILL SALUS THEORIZED THAT THE ISRAELIS WOULD WIN THIS
WAR OVERWHELMINGLY RESULTING IN PEACE FOR THEIR NATION.
BUT THE PEACE WOULD BE SHORT-LIVED BECAUSE THE ARAB
WORLD WOULD TURN TO RUSSIA, AND THE RUSSIANS WOULD COME
DOWN AGAINST ISRAEL WITH CERTAIN SPECIFIED MUSLIM
ALLIES IN WHAT THE BIBLE CALLS THE WAR OF GOG &
MAGOG, DESCRIBED IN DETAIL IN EZEKIEL 38 & 39. RUSSIA'S
MUSLIM ALLIES WILL BE MADE UP OF AN OUTER RING OF
NATIONS WITH NO COMMON BORDER WITH ISRAEL TODAY.
THE PSALM 83 WAR ON THE OTHER HAND WOULD BE ONE
BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE INNER RING OF NATIONS THAT
SURROUND IT. SO, WHAT ABOUT IT? IS PSALM 83 A PROPHECY
ABOUT AN END TIME WAR THAT COULD OCCUR ANY MOMENT, OR
IS IT DESCRIBING SOMETHING ELSE? I CONTACTED BILL SALUS
AND HIS MAJOR CRITIC, TOMMY ICE, AND ASKED IF THEY WOULD
APPEAR ON THIS PROGRAM AND PRESENT THEIR ARGUMENTS AND
BOTH GRACIOUSLY AGREED TO DO SO. WE ARE GOING TO BEGIN
WITH TOMMY ICE PRESENTING HIS OBJECTIONS TO BILL'S
THESIS. AND THEN BILL WILL RESPOND. TOMMY ICE IS THE
DIRECTOR OF THE PRE-TRIB RESEARCH CENTER THAT YOU CAN
FIND ON THE INTERNET AT PRE-TRIB.ORG. THIS WEBSITE
CONTAINS A TREASURE TROVE OF ARTICLES ABOUT END TIME
BIBLE PROPHECY. HERE NOW IS TOMMY ICE.
[MUSIC]
MY PROBLEM WITH THE PSALM 83 THEORY BY BILL SALUS IS THAT
PSALM 83 FIRST OF ALL DOES NOT CONTAIN A PROPHECY. IT'S
AN INDIVIDUAL LAMENT PSALM, A NATIONAL LAMENT BY ASAPH.
AND ASAPH IS COMPLAINING 3,000 YEARS AGO ABOUT THE
ENEMIES THAT SURROUND ISRAEL. AND I ADMIT WHEN YOU
READ IT YOU'D THINK YOU ARE READING ABOUT THE MODERN
SITUATION IN ISRAEL WHICH SHOWS THAT IN 3,000 YEARS
THINGS REALLY HAVEN'T CHANGED, IT IS BASIC
ANTI-SEMITISM. BUT IN SOME OF THE LAMENT PSALMS LIKE
PSALM 79 FOR EXAMPLE YOU HAVE THE LORD ANSWERING THE
REQUEST WHERE HE WILL GIVE A PROPHECY FOR EXAMPLE ABOUT
WHAT HE IS GOING TO DO IN RESPONSE. IN PSALM 83 YOU
DON'T HAVE THE LORD ANSWERING IT AND THEREFORE
THERE IS AN ASSUMPTION THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A
BATTLE BEHIND THIS. AND THERE MAY OR MAY NOT BE, BUT
PSALM 83 DOES NOT CONTAIN A PROPHECY, IT JUST CONTAINS
THE LAMENT OR THE COMPLAINT THAT ASAPH IS GIVING.
SECONDLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PARALLEL PASSAGES, WELL
THEY ARE NOT REALLY PARALLEL, BUT THOSE THAT
MENTION THESE 10 NATIONS THAT ARE PEOPLE GROUPS THAT
ARE MENTIONED IN PSALM 83, THESE ARE MENTIONED IN THE
PROPHETS LATER ON. AND IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE
DEVELOPMENT OF OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECY IN ANY DETAIL
RELATING TO ISRAEL YOU HAVE TO START WITH THE BOOK OF
DEUTERONOMY, IT HAS AN OUTLINE OF PROPHECY. AND YOU
REALLY DON'T HAVE MUCH PROPHECY BEING GIVEN UNTIL
THE PROPHETS COME IN AND THEY START FLESHING OUT
THIS. FOR EXAMPLE YOU HAVE PSALM 2 THAT IS THE PSALM
WHERE IT SAYS, "KISS THE SON LESS HE BE ANGRY, WHY ARE
THE NATIONS IN AN UPROAR?" ETCETERA, ETCETERA. WELL
LATER ON WHEN YOU LEARN THE OUTLINE OF ISRAEL'S PROPHECY
YOU REALIZE THAT PSALM 2 WHICH WAS GIVEN 3,000 YEARS
AGO FITS INTO THE IDEA OF THE TRIBULATION. AND THESE
NATIONS ARE GOING UP AGAINST GOD AND HE IS GOING TO JUDGE
THEM IN THE TRIBULATION. WELL IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
YOU HAVE, I CALL THEM SYNOPTIC PROPHETS, JUST LIKE
YOU HAVE SYNOPTIC GOSPELS, SYNOPTIC MEANS THE SAME. AND
YOU HAVE MATTHEW, MARK AND LUKE ARE SIMILAR AND JOHN
HAS LIKE 93% DIFFERENCE IN ITS GOSPEL. AND THE SAME IS
TRUE IN THE FOUR MAJOR PROPHETS, YOU HAVE ISAIAH,
JEREMIAH, AND EZEKIEL AND EACH ONE OF THOSE PROPHETS
HAS A SECTION RELATING TO THE JUDGMENT OF THE NATIONS.
AND MOST OF THESE NATIONS OR PEOPLE GROUPS THAT ARE
MENTIONED IN PSALM 83 ARE GIVEN INCLUDED IN THE
JUDGMENT OF THE NATIONS. FOR EXAMPLE IN ISAIAH 13-23 YOU
HAVE THAT SECTION. YOU HAVE A SIMILAR SECTION IN
JEREMIAH I THINK IT IS 9 CHAPTERS LONG. YOU HAVE
ANOTHER SECTION IN EZEKIEL THAT IS 7 CHAPTERS LONG AND
THEY SAY A LOT OF THE SIMILAR THINGS. AND THE
CONTEXT OF THE JUDGMENT OF THE NATIONS IS GOING TO BE
AT ARMAGEDDON BASICALLY, IN OTHER WORDS IN CONJUNCTION
WITH THE TRIBULATION. AND SO IF THERE IS GOING TO BE AN
ACTUAL FULFILLMENT OF PSALM 83 THESE OTHER PASSAGES TALK
ABOUT THE JUDGMENT OF THOSE PEOPLE GROUPS IN CONJUNCTION
WITH THE SECOND COMING WHEN HE IS GOING TO JUDGE THE
NATIONS BECAUSE THAT IS THE VERY PURPOSE. IN FACT ISAIAH
24-26 TALKS ABOUT THE JUDGMENTS OF THE NATION'S
BASICALLY FOR THEIR REJECTION OF GOD. AND WE
LEARN FROM REVELATION 3:10 THAT THE TRIBULATION'S
PURPOSE IS TO TEST THE EARTH DWELLERS. THAT PHRASE EARTH
DWELLERS COMES FROM ISAIAH 24 AND 26 WHERE THAT'S A
TERM THAT'S USED 11 TIMES IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION. AND
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE GOD. AND SO THIS IS
THE TIME IN WHICH THOSE NATIONS WILL BE JUDGED AND
THEREFORE I THINK THAT THE IDEA THAT THERE'S GOT TO BE
A PSALM 83 WAR TO SET UP THE PEACE FOR EZEKIEL 38 & 39 IS
JUST BUILT ON SPECULATION. AND THE NEW TESTAMENT WARNS
AGAINST SPECULATION, A NUMBER OF TIMES PAUL
ESPECIALLY IN THE PASTORAL EPISTLES SAYS THAT THIS IS
SOMETHING HE WARNS US ABOUT. NOW WE ALL SPECULATE ON
BIBLE PROPHECY. BUT IT IS ONE THING TO SPECULATE
WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF CLEAR REVELATION LIKE THIS
IS THE TRIBULATION, OR THIS IS THE MILLENNIUM AND HOW
ARE THINGS GOING TO WORK OUT BECAUSE THOSE ARE SETTLED
AMONG LITERAL INTERPRETERS. THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A
7 YEAR TRIBULATION, OR THERE IS GOING TO BE A 1,000 YEAR
MILLENNIUM. AND FOR EXAMPLE TODAY WE SEE THE EUROPEAN
UNION PREPARING THE WAY APPARENTLY FOR THE REVIVED
ROMAN EMPIRE. WE SEE ISRAEL BACK IN THE LAND BECAUSE
THERE ARE DOZENS OF PASSAGES THAT TALK ABOUT THEM
RETURNING TO THE LAND. AND WE SPECULATE WITHIN THAT
FRAMEWORK. AND EVEN THOUGH I AGREE WITH BILL THAT EZEKIEL
38 & 39 THE GOG & MAGOG BATTLE WILL PROBABLY TAKE
PLACE AT THE BEGINNING OR BEFORE THE TRIBULATION. IN
OTHER WORDS SHORTLY BEFORE THAT BECAUSE I BELIEVE THERE
WILL BE AN INTERVAL OF TIME BETWEEN THE RAPTURE THAT
ENDS THE CHURCH AGE AND THE START OF THE TRIBULATION
BECAUSE IT TAKES TIME FOR THE ANTICHRIST WHO IS BEING
RESTRAINED BY THE CHURCH AGE ACCORDING TO 2 THESSALONIANS
2 TO GET INTO PLACE, TO SET UP A 10 NATION CONFEDERACY
AND FOR HIM TO ARISE FROM AMONG THAT. SO THERE'S GOT
TO BE A PERIOD OF TIME AFTER THE RAPTURE AND BEFORE THE
TRIBULATION STARTS. WHICH STARTS AS A RESULT OF ISRAEL
AGREEING OR THEM IMPOSING A CONTRACT ON THEM FROM THAT
REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE AND BY THE BEAST OR THE ANTICHRIST
HIMSELF. SO IT'S VERY LIKELY THAT'S WHEN THAT WILL TAKE
PLACE. SO BILL SPECULATES BECAUSE HE DOESN'T GIVE A
BIBLE VERSE OR A PASSAGE TO TEACH THIS, THAT THERE IS
GOING TO BE A WAR BASED ON PSALM 83 WITH THOSE
IMMEDIATE NATIONS SURROUNDING ISRAEL TO SET UP
THE PEACE. AND ISRAEL IS GOING TO WIN AND ALL OF THIS
AND THAT WILL SET UP THE BASIS FOR THE GOG & MAGOG
THING. WELL WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE END OF CHAPTER 39 I
THINK IT IS AROUND VERSE 28 AND FOLLOWING IT TALKS ABOUT
HOW THE LORD HAS HIDDEN HIMSELF FROM THE NATION OF
ISRAEL. AND THAT APPEARS TO REFER TO THE PERIOD FROM THE
TIME OF CHRIST TO THE TRIBULATION PERIOD BECAUSE
THE OLD TESTAMENT IS FOCUSED ON THAT 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL,
THE TRIBULATION PERIOD. SO I THINK THE BATTLE OF GOG &
MAGOG HAS TO BE RELATED TO THE TRIBULATION PERIOD
BECAUSE IT IS DURING THAT TIME THAT ISRAEL IS GOING TO
COME TO KNOW CHRIST AND HE IS GOING TO BE VINDICATED
FROM THAT. BEFORE THAT TIME IT APPEARS THAT GOD IS NOT
WORKING DIRECTLY OR PROPHETICALLY DURING THE
CHURCH AGE BECAUSE THE CHURCH AGE IS A TIME IN
WHICH YOU HAVE GENERAL TRENDS OR CHARACTERISTICS,
YOU DON'T HAVE SPECIFIC PROPHECIES THAT ARE
OCCURRING IN THE TRIBULATION. AND WHEN THE
CHURCH AGE BEGAN IN ACTS 2 YOU DID HAVE SOME OF
ISRAEL'S PROPHECIES THAT WERE FULFILLED LIKE THE
DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM THAT JESUS GAVE IN LUKE 19
AND SOME OF THOSE AS THEY TRANSITIONED INTO THAT. AND
APPARENTLY AS WE TRANSITION OUT OF THE CHURCH AGE INTO
THE TIME OF ISRAEL YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE THINGS LIKE
ISRAEL RETURNING BACK TO THE LAND IN A SIMILAR WAY. BUT
THESE EVENTS THAT ARE TALKED ABOUT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT I
BELIEVE HAVE TO TAKE PLACE EITHER NEAR OR RELATION TO
THE TRIBULATION OR IN THE TRIBULATION ITSELF. AND THAT
IS WHY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT THINGS ARE GOING TO
HAPPEN DURING THE CHURCH AGE ARE CALLED HISTORICISTS AND
PEOPLE WHO TAKE IT MORE LITERALLY BELIEVE IN THE
70TH WEEK OF DANIEL AND ALL OF THIS THAT THESE EVENTS
WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE TO THE TIME OF THE CHURCH AGE.
AND I THINK THAT SINCE THERE IS NO PASSAGE THAT ACTUALLY
TEACHES THE BELIEF THAT THE PSALM 83 THEORY TEACHES THAT
IT IS PURE SPECULATION. AND THAT IS THE RATIONAL GIVEN
IN HIS BOOK, "ISRALESTINE," IS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE
SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS THAT BRINGS PEACE TO SET UP THE
PEACE REQUIRED IN EZEKIEL 38 & 39. SO IT IS A SPECULATION
BUILT UPON A SPECULATION. AND YET WHEN I HEAR PEOPLE
ON THE RADIO OR TALK TO FRIENDS WHO BELIEVE IN THE
PSALM 83 THEORY THEY TALK ABOUT IT LIKE IT IS GOING TO
BE AN ACTUAL EVENT. AND AT BEST IT OUGHT TO BE NOTED
CLEARLY THAT THIS IS PURE SPECULATION. IT IS PURE
SPECULATION BECAUSE AS I SAY THERE IS NO PROPHECY BEHIND
IT AND THERE IS NOTHING DIRECTLY THAT RELATES TO IT.
[MUSIC]
OK, YOU HAVE HEARD TOMMY ICE'S OBJECTIONS TO THE IDEA
THAT PSALM 83 IS A PROPHECY ABOUT AN END TIME WAR THAT
WILL PROCEED THE WAR OF GOG & MAGOG. LET'S HEAR NOW BILL
SALUS' RESPONSE WHICH WE VIDEOTAPED AT THE ANNUAL
PRE-TRIB CONFERENCE IN DALLAS.
[MUSIC]
FIRST OF ALL I HIGHLY RECOMMEND TOMMY ICE AS AN
EXCELLENT TEACHER WHEN IT COMES TO TALKING ABOUT THE
PRE-TRIB RAPTURE. OFTEN WE WILL REFER PEOPLE TO THE
PRE-TRIB RAPTURE WEBSITE AND I THINK THAT HE HAS A LOT OF
OUTSTANDING WORK ON THAT. AND I DO ALSO AGREE WITH HIM
THAT THE PSALM 83 IS A PRAYER OF LAMENT, AN
IMPRECATORY PRAYER. THAT ASAPH IS CALLING UPON THE
LORD TO INTERVENE AND HE IS BESEECHING HIM TO DEAL WITH
HIS ADVERSARIES. BUT WHERE I THINK THOMAS ICE FALLS SHORT
IS SEEING THE PROPHETIC ASPECTS WITHIN THE PSALM. HE
THINKS IT IS JUST A PRAYER OF LAMENT AND NOT A
PROPHECY. WELL LET'S START WITH THIS, 2 CHRONICLES
29:30 HEZEKIAH SAYS HE COMMENDS THE LEVITES TO SING
THE PRAISES OF KING DAVID AND ASAPH WHO IS THE AUTHOR
OF THE PSALM AND HE CALLS HIM A SEER. THE HEBREW WORD
IS CLEARLY TALKING ABOUT A BEHOLDER OF VISION, A
PROPHET. SO ASAPH WROTE 12 PSALMS, PSALM 83 IS ONE OF
THE MOST PROPHETIC OF THE PSALMS, HE WAS A PROPHET.
NOW HEZEKIAH WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN AND WOULD KNOW
THAT HE WAS A PROPHET BECAUSE AMONG THE
CONFEDERACY THAT ASAPH TALKS ABOUT IN PSALM 83 IS A
MEMBER CALLED ASSYRIA. NOW AT THE TIME THAT ASAPH
WROTE, ASSYRIA WASN'T EVEN IN THE PICTURE, THEY WEREN'T
EVEN REALLY ONE OF ISRAEL'S ENEMIES UNTIL LATER. BUT
THEY WERE AN ENEMY OF HEZEKIAH THEY HAD COME INTO
THE FRAY WITH ISRAEL DURING SHALMANESER II AROUND 850 BC
AND HEZEKIAH WAS AROUND 701 BC. SO ASSYRIA WAS ALREADY
INTERACTING WITH ISRAEL PROBLEMATICALLY. THEY
DESTROYED THE NORTHERN KINGDOM OF ISRAEL IN 722 BC.
SO HEZEKIAH AROUND 701 BC HAD TO DEAL WITH SENNACHERIB
ISSUE WITH ASSYRIA. SO HEZEKIAH WOULD BE VERY
CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH ASSYRIA AND HE
WOULD KNOW THAT ASAPH HAD SPOKEN ABOUT ASSYRIA IN A
PROPHECY. ANOTHER THING WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS
PROPHECY, ASAPH, AND I'M GOING TO CONCLUDE BY TALKING
ABOUT THE PSALM AND BREAKING IT DOWN AS A PROPHECY. BUT
AMONG THE CONFEDERACY THAT ASAPH TALKS ABOUT HE TALKS
ABOUT INCLUDES A PLACE CALLED GEBAL ALONG WITH
ASSYRIA. NOW GEBAL, YOU DON'T EVEN HEAR ABOUT THEM
UNTIL EZEKIEL 27, EZEKIEL WROTE LONG AFTER ASAPH.
ASAPH WROTE ABOUT 1,000 YEARS BC. EZEKIEL WROTE
ABOUT 500-600 YEARS BC SO HE WROTE AFTER. SO IT HAD TO BE
A PROPHECY BECAUSE ASAPH WAS NOT JUST SAYING, GOD HELP US
WITH THESE ENEMIES AROUND US, AND HE LISTED THE VERY
SPECIFIC GROUP OF 10 AND OF COURSE ISRAEL HAD MUCH MORE
THAN 10 ENEMIES UP TO THAT POINT IN TIME. BUT HE LISTED
A SPECIFIC 10, SO 2 OF THEM WEREN'T EVEN THE FRAY AT
THAT POINT IN TIME. SO HE WAS TALKING ABOUT A FUTURE
SCENARIO. NOW HE ALSO TALKS ABOUT THEM IN HABITATION
CONDITION. SO HE IS TALKING ABOUT THIS CONFEDERACY AND
HE CALLS THE VERY FIRST MEMBER THE TENTS OF EDOM. HE
IS LISTING SOME POPULATION, SOME PEOPLE GROUP IN A
HABITATION CONDITION. NOW BIBLICALLY SPEAKING THAT
WOULD EVEN BE MILITARY ENCAMPMENTS OR REFUGEE
CONDITIONS. THE EDOMITES THE DESCENDANTS OF ESAU HAVE
ETHNICAL REPRESENTATION IN THE PALESTINIANS TODAY. I DO
BELIEVE WHAT ESAU WAS TRYING TO TELL US AND IT BECAME A
REALITY IN 1948 THAT THERE WOULD BE A REFUGEE CRISIS, A
PALESTINIAN REFUGEE CRISIS AND THEY WOULD BE PART OF
THIS OVERALL PROBLEM. AND I THINK THAT FINDS ITS FACE IN
TODAY. NOW ALSO HE SAYS ABOUT ASSYRIA, THEY ACTUALLY
HELP THE CHILDREN OF LOT. SO YOU HAVE A CONFEDERATE
MEMBER WHO IS ASSISTING ANOTHER CONFEDERATE MEMBER,
THE CHILDREN OF LOT WOULD REPRESENT JORDAN FOR THE
MOST PART TODAY. AND AT NO TIME IN JORDAN'S HISTORY DID
ASSYRIA EVER HELP JORDAN UNTIL THEY WERE INVOLVED IN
WARS IN 1948 AND 1967, AND JORDAN WAS NOT ONE OF THE
STRONGER MEMBERS IN THAT WAR. SO I THINK IT IS A
PROPHECY FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE. ASAPH WAS A
PROPHET BUT THAT IS JUST ONE ARGUMENT ABOUT IT. ONE OF
THE THINGS THAT DR. ICE TALKS ABOUT WHICH WAS A
LITTLE BIT DISTURBING TO ME IS THAT HE SAYS WHEN MY
FRIENDS SPEAK ABOUT PSALM 83 OR I HEAR RADIO INTERVIEWS
ABOUT PSALM 83 HE SAYS, "AT BEST IT SHOULD BE SAID THAT
THIS IS JUST UTTER SPECULATION." FIRST OF ALL
THAT IGNORES AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF RESEARCH I'VE DONE
THROUGH THE YEARS. AND I WASN'T THE FIRST ONE TO
WRITE ON PSALM 83, THIS WAS NOT MY BRAIN STORM OF AN
IDEA OR HYPOTHESIS. MUTUAL RESPECTED PEOPLE LIKE DR.
ARNOLD FRUCHTENBAUM FIRST WROTE ABOUT IT IN HIS BOOK,
"THE FOOTSTEPS OF THE MESSIAH." DAVID DOLAN WROTE
ABOUT IT IN HIS BOOK, "ISRAEL IN CRISIS," BEFORE I
EVEN WROTE ABOUT IT. BUT WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT MY
FRIENDS THAT ARE SPECULATING, WELL LET'S
UNPACK THAT A LITTLE BIT. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HAL
LINDSEY WHO ADVOCATES THE SIMILAR PSALM 83 HYPOTHESIS.
DR. DAVID REAGAN, CHUCK MISSLER, GARY STEARMAN, A
LOT OF NOTABLE, DR. ARNOLD FRUCHTENBAUM AS I SAID, A
LOT OF NOTABLE NAMES VERY RESPECTABLE. SO FROM MY
PERSPECTIVE, I DON'T THINK THOSE GUYS TOOK MY WORD FOR
WHAT THE INTERPRETATION OF PSALM 83 WOULD BE WITHOUT
THEM CRACKING THE BOOKS AND FIGURING OUT FOR THEMSELVES
WHETHER IT WAS A PROPHECY. SO I THINK JUST BROAD
BRUSHING THAT IT IS SPECULATION IS A LITTLE BIT
DANGEROUS. NOW THIS INTERVIEW YOU SAW WITH DR.
ICE, HE COULD ONLY COVER A MODICUM AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT
HE HAD WRITTEN IN A DISSERTATION THAT HE WROTE
ABOUT 2011 CALLED, "CONSISTENT BIBLICAL
FUTURISM." AND IN THAT HE DEVOTED SECTIONS 10, 11, 12
AND 13 TO PSALM 83. AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT TO
CLEAR UP ON THIS AND I CERTAINLY INVITE YOU TO
GOOGLE THAT AND READ THAT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO HEAR ALL
OF HIS GENERAL ARGUMENTS ON THAT. BUT AT THE SAME TIME I
WOULD INVITE YOU GET MY BOOK, "PSALM 83: THE MISSING
PROPHECY REVEALED," WHERE I ADDRESS EVERY OBJECTION HE'S
MADE, AND EVERY OBJECTION EVERYONE ELSE HAS MADE ABOUT
WHY PSALM 83 IS PERHAPS NOT A PROPHECY FOR OUR TIME AND
THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT I DO WANT TO QUOTE ONE THING THAT
HE SAYS RIGHT IN THE BEGINNING OF HIS
DISSERTATION, HE SAYS, "CONSISTENT FUTURISTS
BELIEVE THAT FUTURE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECY WILL
START TO BE FULFILLED AFTER THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH
EXCEPT THE PROPHECY OF THE RAPTURE ITSELF." SO WHAT HE
IS SAYING THERE IS THAT BIBLE PROPHECY APART FROM
THE RAPTURE WILL BE FULFILLED AFTER THE RAPTURE.
AND AS YOU READ HIS TEACHINGS ON FUTURISM, MORE
SPECIFICALLY HE IS PUTTING IT ALL INTO THE CATCH ALL
CLOSET OF THE 7 YEAR TRIBULATION PERIOD. SO IN
ESSENCE PRETTY MUCH ALL PROPHECY APART FROM THE
RAPTURE FINDS FINAL FULFILLMENT IN DANIEL'S 70TH
WEEK IN THE TRIBULATION PERIOD. NOW HE GOES ON TO
SAY, "BILL SALUS HAS SET FORTH THE SPECULATION THAT
PSALM 83 PROPHESIES A SEPARATE END TIME WAR THAT
WILL TAKE PLACE AT THE END OF THE CURRENT CHURCH AGE
BEFORE THE RAPTURE. SALUS TEACHES THAT BEFORE
TRIBULATION, BEFORE THE BATTLE OF MAGOG WHICH WILL
TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION EVEN BEFORE THE
RAPTURE TOWARD THE END OF THE CURRENT CHURCH AGE
ISRAEL WILL BE INVADED BY THE NATIONS SURROUNDING IT."
FIRST OF ALL I WANT TO CLARIFY WHEN I READ THAT I
E-MAILED DR. ICE AND I SAID, "PLEASE POINT OUT WHERE I
SAID THAT, OR WERE YOU GLEAMED THAT THOUGHT BECAUSE
I CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT WAS. I NEVER WROTE
THAT." AND HE NEVER RESPONDED TO ME. AND SO I
WANT TO GO ON THE RECORD RIGHT NOW IN ALL IN
SUBSEQUENT WORKS I HAVE MADE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT I DO
NOT BELIEVE THAT PSALM 83 HAS TO BE PRECEDE THE
RAPTURE. NOW IT MIGHT. THE RAPTURE COULD HAPPEN BEFORE,
IT COULD HAPPEN DURING, OR IT COULD HAPPEN AFTER PSALM
83. BUT I BELIEVE IN THE DOCTRINE OF IMMINENCE AS
DOES DR. ICE. I BELIEVE WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR THE
RETURN OF JESUS AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT. BUT I ALSO SEE
WATCHING THE GEOPOLITICAL SITUATION IN THE MIDDLE EAST
THAT PSALM 83 IS ALSO VERY IMMINENT AND IT COULD HAPPEN
AND WE NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR IT. NOW I WANT TO TALK
A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PSALM. ASAPH IS PETITIONING
GOD ABOUT A CONCERN, A GENOCIDAL ATTEMPT OF THE
JEWISH PEOPLE. HE'S SAYING THEY ARE GOING TO FORM A
CONFEDERACY, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE A PLAN, A
CONTEMPORARY CONFEDERACY OF ARAB STATES. THESE ARAB
STATES SHARE A COMMON BORDERS WITH ISRAEL. THAT
THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE A CONTEMPORARY CONFEDERACY,
THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE A PLAN TO DESTROY THE NATION
OF ISRAEL THAT THE NAME OF ISRAEL COULD BE REMEMBERED
NO MORE. IF THAT IS A PROPHECY FOR OUR TIME THAT
MEANS THEY DON'T WANT PEACE WITH THE JEWS TODAY, THE
ARAB AND THE PALESTINIANS, THEY WANT PEACE WITHOUT THE
JEWS. AND THEY DON'T WANT A TWO STATE SOLUTION, THEY
WANT ONE MORE STATE AND THEY WANT TO FLY THE FLAG OF
PALESTINE OVER IT. AND FOLKS, I THINK THIS IS A
VERY REAL CONCERN, IT CERTAINLY IS WITH ISRAEL AND
IT SHOULD BE A CONCERN FOR YOU AS SUPPORTERS OF ISRAEL.
HE GOES ON TO TALK ABOUT THE CONFEDERACY AS I SAID TO
YOU. NOW DR. ICE HAS MADE THE COMMENT THAT, "IF THIS
IS A PROPHECY HOW COME IT'S NOT IN THE PROPHETS, THE
MAJOR AND MINOR PROPHETS THAT ARE EMPHASIZING
PROPHECY. WELL I POINT OUT IN MY BOOK, "PSALM 83: THE
MISSING PROPHECY REVEALED," THAT THE PROPHETS DID TALK
ABOUT THAT AND I POINT OUT ABOUT 150 VERSES THAT I
THINK APPLY TO THE PROPHETS ADDRESSING THESE VERY
POPULATION GROUPS, EDOMITES, AMMONITES, MOABITES, GEBAL,
ASSYRIA, ISHMAELITES, HAGARENES, AND I PUT MAPS IN
THE BOOK OF COURSE OF WHO THEY ARE THE ARAB STATES
SHARING COMMON BORDERS WITH ISRAEL. I CALL THEM AN
INNER-CIRCLE, INSIDE OF THAT INNER-CIRCLE YOU'VE GOT
TERRORIST POPULATIONS THAT HAVE EVOLVED, HEZBOLLAH,
HAMAS, OF COURSE YOU'VE GOT THE PALESTINIANS, ETCETERA.
SO I WILL LET YOU READ THROUGH MY BOOK AND YOU WILL
SEE THAT I BELIEVE ASAPH HAS SPOKEN AND THE OTHER
PROPHETS VERY MUCH ABOUT THEM. NOW I THINK THE
PROBLEM THAT DR. ICE RUNS INTO IS BECAUSE HE BELIEVES
THAT IN CONSISTENT FUTURISM THAT THE JUDGMENT OF ALL THE
NATIONS WILL OCCUR IN THE TRIBULATION PERIOD. AND I
THINK HE GRAVITATES TOWARDS THAT AND I CERTAINLY RESPECT
HIS VIEW ON THAT. BUT WHEN THAT HAPPENS IN THE CAMPAIGN
OF ARMAGEDDON THIS IS THE LORD RETURNING, JESUS IS
RETURNING AND HE IS DEALING WITH THE ANTICHRIST SINGLE
HANDEDLY, HE'S FIGHTING THEM OFF. WHAT I POINT OUT IS
THAT THE ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES TODAY ARE
INSTRUMENTAL, THEY ARE THE TOOL THE LORD USES TO FIGHT
OFF THE PSALM 83 ARABS, AND I SHOW SCRIPTURES LIKE
EZEKIEL 25:14 DEALING WITH EDOM. "I WILL EXECUTE
VENGEANCE BY THE HAND OF MY PEOPLE ISRAEL," NOT BY THE
MESSIAH BY THE HAND OF MY PEOPLE ISRAEL ON EDOM AND
THEY'LL SHOW THEM MY FURY AND VENGEANCE. OBADIAH 1:18
IS A VERY IMPORTANT PROPHECY, THE HOUSE OF JACOB
WILL BE A FIRE, THE HOUSE OF JOSEPH A FLAME, BUT THE
HOUSE OF ESAU SHALL BE STUBBLE. ESAU IS THE FATHER
OF THE EDOMITES, THE EDOMITES ARE THE TENTS OF
EDOM IN THIS PROPHECY. SO, THE THING AND EVEN ASAPH
PETITIONS THE LORD IN VERSES 9-11 TO DEAL WITH THIS
CONFEDERACY IN THE MANNER OF HISTORICAL JEWISH MILITARY
PRECEDENT. AT THE TIME OF GIDEON WHEN HE DEFEATED THE
MIDIANITES THE LORD EMPOWERED GIDEON TO DEFEAT
THE MIDIANITES, 300 MEN KILL 120,000 MIDIANITES. HE ALSO
TALKS ABOUT DEAL WITH THEM LIKE BARAK THE GENERAL DID
AT THE TIME OF THE CANAANITES AND THE
ISRAELITES WON AND THEY WERE EMPOWERED. SO HE IS
PETITIONING THE LORD TO DEAL WITH THEM, EMPOWER THE
ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES THROUGH THE MANNER OF
HISTORICAL PRECEDENT AS WAS DONE. SO AS I CONCLUDE HERE
I CERTAINLY RESPECT TOMMY ICE. I JUST DON'T AGREE WITH
HIM, HE FALL SHORT ON CALLING IT A PROPHECY. I
INVITE YOU TO CERTAINLY READ ALL THE THINGS HE SAID BUT
PICK UP MY BOOK AND READ IT TOO BECAUSE FOLKS I THINK
PSALM 83 IS ON THE NEARBY HORIZON AND THAT ALSO MEANS
THAT JESUS COULD COME AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT. THANK YOU.
[MUSIC]
WHEN BILL SALUS FIRST PUBLISHED HIS THEORY IN
2008, I ENDORSED IT IMMEDIATELY WITH A FEATURE
ARTICLE IN OUR LAMPLIGHTER MAGAZINE. I DID SO BECAUSE I
HAD ALWAYS TAUGHT THAT A LIMITED WAR IN THE MIDDLE
EAST BETWEEN ISRAEL AND ITS IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS WOULD
RESULT IN A VICTORY FOR ISRAEL THAT WOULD, IN TURN,
MOTIVATE THE ARAB WORLD TO CRY OUT TO RUSSIA FOR HELP,
WHICH WOULD LEAD TO A RUSSIAN INVASION OF THE
AREA, WITH THE RUSSIANS ACCOMPANIED BY THE OUTER
RING OF MUSLIM NATIONS MENTIONED IN THE WAR OF GOG
AND MAGOG IN EZEKIEL 38 AND 39. ALTHOUGH I HAD TAUGHT
THIS FOR YEARS, I HAD NEVER MADE THE LINK BETWEEN PSALM
83 AND THE WAR OF ISRAEL WITH ITS IMMEDIATE
NEIGHBORS, WITH THOSE WITH WHOM IT SHARES COMMON
BOUNDARIES. I STILL BELIEVE THIS IS THE MOST LIKELY
SCENARIO; FIRST THE LIMITED WAR OF PSALM 83 AND THEN THE
BROADER WAR OF EZEKIEL 38 & 39. ONE OF THE IMMEDIATE
OBJECTIONS TO BILL'S THESIS TOOK THE FORM OF AN
ACCUSATION THAT HE WAS INSERTING EVENTS THAT MUST
TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE RAPTURE, BUT FOLKS THAT
OBJECTION WAS UNFOUNDED. BILL NEVER PLACED ANY EVENT
BEFORE THE RAPTURE. ACCORDING TO HIS THESIS, THE
RAPTURE COULD OCCUR BEFORE THESE WARS OR DURING THEM OR
AFTER THEM. BILL HAS BEEN CONSISTENT IN ARGUING THAT
THE RAPTURE IS A SIGNLESS AND IMMINENT EVENT THAT
COULD OCCUR ANY MOMENT. BASICALLY, THOSE WHO OBJECT
TO BILL'S THESIS ABOUT PSALM 83 SIMPLY ARGUE THAT THE
PSALM IS A PRAYERFUL LAMENT AGAINST THE ENEMIES OF
ISRAEL, AND YOU KNOW WHAT IT COULD VERY WELL BE. BIBLE
PROPHECY IS NOT ALWAYS CLEAR, AND THAT PROVIDES
LEGITIMATE GROUNDS FOR HONEST DIFFERENCES IN
INTERPRETATION. I WANT TO THANK BOTH TOMMY ICE AND
BILL SALUS FOR AGREEING TO APPEAR ON THIS PROGRAM AND
SHARE THEIR VIEWPOINTS ABOUT PSALM 83. IF YOU WOULD LIKE
TO STUDY THIS ISSUE IN GREATER DETAIL, I WOULD
RECOMMEND THIS PARTICULAR VIDEO BY BILL SALUS
ENTITLED, "PSALM 83." IN JUST A MOMENT OUR ANNOUNCER
WILL TELL YOU HOW YOU CAN GET A COPY. WELL, THAT'S IT
FOR THIS WEEK. I HOPE THIS PROGRAM HAS BEEN A BLESSING
TO YOU. AND I HOPE YOU WILL BE BACK WITH US AGAIN NEXT
WEEK. UNTIL THEN, THIS IS DAVE REAGAN SPEAKING FOR
LAMB & LION MINISTRIES, SAYING, "LOOK UP, BE
WATCHFUL FOR OUR REDEMPTION IS DRAWING NEAR."
[MUSIC] ARE YOU INTERESTED IN DELVING EVEN DEEPER INTO
THE AMAZING PROPHECY THAT IS PSALM 83? THEN YOU WILL WANT
TO ORDER BILL SALUS' NEWEST DVD SERIES, PSALM 83: THE
MISSING PROPHECY REVEALED. THIS POWERFUL RESOURCE
CONTAINS THREE OF BILL'S MOST REVELATORY TEACHINGS
AND COMES COMPLETE WITH INSTRUCTIONAL IMAGES AND
MAPS. THE PSALM 83 PROPHECY IDENTIFIES AN ARAB
CONFEDERACY THAT IS BENT ON WIPING ISRAEL RIGHT OFF THE
MAP. NOW MANY BIBLE PROPHECY EXPERTS ARE PREDICTING THAT
THE NEXT PROPHETIC WAR WILL INCLUDE RUSSIA, IRAN, TURKEY
AND SEVERAL OTHER COUNTRIES JOINING TO INVADE ISRAEL
ACCORDING TO EZEKIEL 38. BUT BILL SALUS SHARES THE
MULTIPLE REASONS WHY PSALM 83 COULD TRULY COULD BE THE
NEXT MID-EAST NEWS HEAD LINE. GET YOUR COPY TODAY
FOR A DONATION OF $15 OR MORE PLUS SHIPPING. JUST ASK
FOR IT BY NAME: PSALM 83- THE MISSING PROPHECY
REVEALED DVD. CALL THE NUMBER YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN
8 AM TO 5 PM MONDAY THRU FRIDAY CENTRAL TIME. OR
ORDER ON-LINE AT LAMBLION.COM.
[MUSIC] THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON TODAY'S CHRIST
IN PROPHECY, A PRESENTATION OF LAMB AND LION MINISTRIES,
A NON-DENOMINATIONAL MINISTRY DEDICATED TO
TEACHING THE FUNDAMENTALS OF BIBLICAL PROPHECY AND