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WELCOME DR. JEFF.
>> GOOD MORNING.
>> OUR OTHER GREAT GUEST AS A
COURT TV REGULAR YOU KNOW HIM
WELL, DAVID SCHWARTZ.
GOOD MORNING, DAVID.
>> GOOD MORNING.
>> ALL RIGHT, DAVID, SHOULD
DEBORAH LAFAVE, IF THIS
17-YEAR-OLD GIRL COMES IN ON THE
NEW DATE AND SAID SHE TALKED TO
ME ABOUT SEX IN THE WORKPLACE,
SHOULD DEBORAH LAFAVE BE THROWN
INTO PRISON?
>> ABSOLUTELY NOT, LISA.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
THIS IS A VILG OF PROBATION.
SHE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH A
17-YEAR-OLD.
I MEAN, PLEASE.
THIS IS RIDICULOUS.
>> 17 IS A MINOR.
WHAT IF IT WAS A SHIFTY EYED OLD
MAN WOULD YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY.
>> AS FAR AS BEING A VIOLATION
OF PROBATION IF YOU'RE A
CO-WORKER, IF YOU'RE WORKING IN
A REST RAPT AND HAVE A
CONVERSATION WITH A CO-WORKER
NO, I WOULDN'T THINK THAT WOULD
BE A VIOLATION OF PROBATION.
>> WHAT IF SHE WAS A SHIFTY EYED
OLD MAN WHO HAD SEX WITH A
14-YEAR-OLD GIRL GOT OUT ON
PROBATION AND ONE OF THE
CONDITIONS WAS DON'T TALK ABOUT
SEX WITH CHILDREN.
WOULD YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY?
>> IF THAT'S A CONDITION OF
PROBATION IT COULD BE A
VIOLATION.
AND, YES, THERE IS A DOUBLE
STANDARD, AND I JUST -- YOU
KNOW, IT'S BEEN MY POSITION ALL
ALONG THAT THE IMPACT ON THIS
PARTICULAR VICTIM IS A LOT LESS
THAN IF IT WAS A 14-YEAR-OLD
GIRL.
>> LET'S GO TO DR. JEFFREY ON
THIS.
IS IT DIFFERENT IF A LITTLE BOY
IS SEXUALLY ABUSED VERSUS A
LITTLE GIRL.
>> THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BUT A
BOY BEING A VICTIM HAS LESS
IMPACT ON HIS LIFE THAN A GIRL
BEING A VICTIM.
THE FACT IS AS YOU SAID IT, LIE
SAKS THEY HAVE WARPED IDEAS --
THE BOYS WHO GO THROUGH THIS
HAVE WARPED IDEAS ABOUT
SEXUALITY.
THEY DON'T RELATE IN A HEALTHY
MANNER TO FEMALES AND THEY WILL
HAVE ISSUES IN THEIR MARRIAGES
LATER ON.
DAVID IS A FRIEND OF MINE AND WE
JUST DO NOT SEE EYE TO EYE ON
THIS THING.
I THINK DEBBIE LAFAVE WAS GIVEN
A BIG BREAK OF GETTING HOUSE
ARREST INSTEAD OF GOING TO JAIL
AND BECAUSE OF THAT NOW THEY ARE
BEING VERY, VERY TOUGH ON HER.
HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH A
16-YEAR-OLD, A 15-YEAR-OLD -- I
DON'T CARE IF IT'S SOMEONE WHO
IS A MINOR, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT TWO WOMEN HERE,
IT'S INAPPROPRIATE.
I WOULDN'T -- EVEN IF THERE WAS
A WOMAN WHO WAS NOT A SEX
OFFENDER HAVING THOSE SORTS OF
CONVERSATIONS WITH A 17-YEAR-OLD
TALKING ABOUT BOYFRIENDS AND SEX
AND SO ON MY QUESTION IS WHO ARE
YOU TO BE HAVING THESE
CONVERSATIONS WITH WITHOUT MY
PERMISSION.
HAT YOUR TELLING THIS PERSON AS
AN ADULT AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
A SEX OFFENDER HERE.
SO I THINK THERE ARE RISKS AND
RISK FACTORS.
>> HER LAWYER ONCE SAID THAT
DEBORAH LAFAVE WAS TOO PRETTY
FOR PRISON.
AND AFTER CUTTING A DEAL LAFAVE
AVOIDED JAIL TIME.
INSTEAD SHE RECEIVED HOUSE
ARREST AND PROBATION.
>> SO TODAY'S QUESTION OF THE
DAY IS DO GOOD LOOKING PEOPLE
GET TREATED DIFFERENTLY BY
CONTEST THE
UNFOUNDED ALLEGATIONS AGAINST
DEBBIE.
THANK YOU.
>> NOW PART THIS WAS DEAL WAS
COMMUNITY CONTROL, WHICH IS
HOUSE ARREST.
DAVID SCHWARTZ HERE IN NEW YORK.
ALL RIGHT.
THIS IS THE WAY IT WORKS.
SHE WAKES UP IN THE MORNING, HAS
BREAKFAST, GOES TO WORK.
WHEN SHE'S DONE WITH WORK SHE
GOES HOME.
SHE'S GOT A CURFEW OF ABOUT
10:00 AND THEN SHE GOES TO SLEEP
AND ANYONE CAN COME AND GO AND
VISIT HERAT HOME IF SHE HAS A
BOYFRIEND HE CAN COME AND VISIT
AND THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY
WANT TO DO.
SHE GOES TO SLEEP AND DOES THE
SAME THING THE NEXT DAY.
HOW IS THIS PUNISHMENT FOR A
TEACHER SLEEPING WITH A STUDENT?
HOW IS THIS PUNISHMENT.
>> FIRST OF ALL, VINNIE --
>> HOW DOES IT SEND A MESSAGE.
>> IT'S A FIRST ARREST.
MOST OF THE TIME WITH A FIRST
ARREST.
>> FIRST *** ASSAULT.
>> LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING.
THIS IS NO WALK IN THE PARK.
IT'S NOT EASY HAVING ***
OFFENDSER STATUS.
>> ALMOST A WALK ON THE BEACH.
>> YOU KNOW WHAT, VINNIE.
PLEASE.
THINK OF LITTLE VINNIE POLITAN,
AGE 14 YEARS OLD SITTING IN THAT
MATH CLASS, LITTLE VINNIE WITH
THE HORMONES RAGING, EVERYTHING
GOING CRAZY.
>> YOUR BLAMING THE VICTIM?
>> NO.
BUT I DON'T BUY INTO ALL THESE
STATISTICS, THE DOCTOR CAN TALK
ABOUT IT ALL HE WANTS.
>> THE LAW IS THE LAW.
>> I UNDERSTAND SHE PLED GUILTY.
>> JUSTICE IS BLIND.
>> THERE'S A GUILTY PLEA HERE.
THERE IS A GUILTY EMPLOYEE HERE.
SHE WILL NEVER TEACH AGAIN.
SHE HAS TO ABIDE BY THE
CONDITIONS OF PROBATION.
BELIEVE ME, THIS IS NO BIG DEAL.
THIS IS NOT GOING OUT AND
COMMITTING ANOTHER CRIME.
THIS IS NOT A BIG DEAL WHAT'S
GOING ON HERE.
BUT MY POINT IS, I GUARANTEE YOU
CAN FIND JUST AS MANY MEN WHO
DIDN'T SLEEP WITH THEIR TEACHERS
WHEN THEY WERE 14 WHO ALSO HAVE
MARITAL PROBLEMS WHO ALSO HAVE
RELATIONSHIP PROBLEMS.
>> NOT THE SAME KIND OF
PROBLEMS.
I'LL TELL YOU WHY, DAVID.
PUT ASIDE THE PSYCHOLOGICAL.
ADULTS HAVE A LOT OF POWER THAT
A CHILD DOESN'T HAVE.
ADULTS HAVE THE POWER TO HAVE A
JOB, TO DRIVE, TO DRINK, TO
VOTE.
HOPEFULLY INCREASE KNOWLEDGE AND
INTELLIGENCE.
THE RELATIONSHIP IS INHERENTLY
UNEQUAL BECAUSE THE A ADULTS
HAVE SO MUCH POWER THAN THE
MINOR.
WHEN YOU ADD ON TOP OF THAT THE
POWER THAT A TEACHER HAS OVER A
STUDENT IT'S AN UNHEALTHY
RELATIONSHIP.
IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW PRETTY SHE
IS.
LATER ON IN LIFE, I GUARANTEE
YOU AS THIS KID GROWS UP, HE'LL
UNDERSTAND ONE OF HIS FIRST
*** EXPERIENCES WAS UNKWAEL
POWER BALANCE RELATIONSHIP HE
DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF SAY OR
CONTROL.
THERE'S A TAPE OF HER SAYING
THEY DIDN'T EVEN THINK THEY
SHOULD USE CONDOMS.
THAT'S AN UNHEALTHY
RELATIONSHIP.
THAT'S WHY SHE WAS CONVICTED.
THAT'S WHY SHE PLEADED GUILTY TO
A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
DEBBIE LaFAVE AND A SHIFTY EYED
OLD MAN IS SHE'S VERY ATTRACTIVE
AND SHE GOT A PASS.
WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED WITH MARY
KAY LA TORINO.
SHE GOT A PASS AND GOT OUT AND
REOFFENDED.
SHE GOT SIX MONTHS IN JAIL
INITIALLY.
SHE GOT OUT, REOFFENDED AND WENT
BACK IN FOR SEVEN MONTHS.
OH, MY GOSH I CAN BE SURPRISED.
I WASN'T SURPRISED AND I WASN'T
SURPRISED WHEN I GOT A CALL LAST
WEEK THAT DEBORAH LaFAVE WAS
BUT HER PROBATION VIOLATION,
DAVID SCHWARTZ, WAS
SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT THAN
WHAT'S ALLEGED HERE AGAINST
DEBORAH LaFAVE.
MARY KAY LETOURNEAU WENT OUT AND
HAD SEX IN A CAR, UNPROTECTED
SEX WHICH RESULTED IN A PRETTY
GOOD NANCY.
SHE DID IT AGAIN AND RESULTED IN
A SECOND PREGNANCY.
DEBORAH LaFAVE IS ONLY ACCUSED
OF HAVING A CONVERSATION.
>> APPLES AND ORANGES.
NO TWO CASES ARE EVER THE SAME.
YOU HAVE TO COME TAXPAYER AND
CONTRAST.
YOU HEARD THE JUDGE IN THE
LETOURNEAU CASE.
IT WAS AN E GREGIOUS AND CLEARLY
IT WAS AN E AGREE GOUS
VIOLATION.
SHE WENT OUT AND HAD SEX WITH A
MINOR.
THAT'S A SERIOUS VIOLATION.
COMPARING AND CONTRASTED TO THE
LaFAVE CASE RIGHT NOW WHERE SHE
MERELY HAD A CONVERSATION WITH A
CO-WORKER WHO IS 17 YEARS OLD.
GUESS WHAT?
WE HAVEN'T HAD THE HEARING YET.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TOOK PLACE
DURING THAT CONVERSATION.
THE ATTORNEY HAD STATED HE WAS
GOING TO VIGOROUSLY DEFEND THAT
CASE.
>> YEAH.
THE 17-YEAR-OLD MAY COME IN AND
SAY IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
>> DIDN'T HAPPEN.
>> OR IT'S ALL BEING BLOWN OUT
OF PROPORTION.
I SAID SOMETHING OR SHE WALKED
AWAY.
WE DON'T KNOW.
SHE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN
GUILTY.
BUT, DAVID, THE IDEA OF
COMMUNITY CONTROL, LET'S TALK
ABOUT THAT.
BECAUSE IT'S EFFECTIVELY LIKE
BEING IN PRISON.
IT'S BASICALLY SAYING TO DEBORAH
LaFAVE LOOK, WE'RE GIVING YOU
AND OPPORTUNITY, DO NOT BLOW IT.
YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR NOSE
CLEAN.
YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW ALL 48
PROVISIONS OF THIS RELEASE.
I MEAN THIS IS NOT LIKE AN
ORDINARY PERSON TALKING TO A
17-YEAR-OLD PERSON ABOUT SEX.
THIS IS SOMEBODY WHO HAS TO
FOLLOW A VERY STRICT SET OF
RULES OTHERWISE SHE GOES RIGHT
TO JAIL, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT
COLLECT $200, RIGHT?
>> AGAIN, THERE ARE DIFFERENT
DEGREES OF VIOLATIONS.
AND THE JUDGE HAS GREAT
DISCRETION WHAT THE PUNISHMENT
SHOULD BE FOR A VIOLATION.
SO IF THE JUDGE DOES DETERMINE
THAT THIS IS A VIOLATION IN THIS
CASE HOW SERIOUS IS.
>> IT'S COMPARED TO THE
LETOURNEAU CASE IS IT E
GREGIOUS?
I DON'T THINK SO.
IF THE JUDGE WANTS TO PROVE A
POINT AND THROW HER IN JAIL FOR
A WEEK MAYBE THAT'S THE PROPER
PUNISHMENT JUST TO TEACH HER A
LESSON SHE HAS TO ABIDE BY ALL
THE CONDITIONS OF PROBATION.
BUT TO START GIVING HER SOME
SORT OF SENTENCE THAT'S WAY OUT
OF WHACK COMPARED TO THE
BEHAVIOR HERE WHICH IS MERELY
HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH A