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Peace be upon you
Welcome in a new episode of our live programme "Without Borders"
Bashar Al Assad's regime took several hard blows
During the past days
Including blasting the building of the National Security in Damascus,
The death of the Defence Minister, his deputy, the Minister of Interior, and the Assistant Vice President
And other important figures of the regime.
The series of defections within the military, intelligence and political entities go on.
However, the defection of the Prime Minister, Riyadh Hijab, was the hardest blow in this chain.
It made the swaying regime more aggressive.
Assad uses military aircraft to attack the Syrians
In addition to using heavy artillery which he has never used against Israel.
In today's programme, we will try to understand the military and Intelligence structure of the Syrian regime
We will also discuss the complications of the defections, and worries of the defectors with the defected Syrian Ambassador in Iraq
Mr. Nawaf Al Fares
He was born In Deir Az-Zoor in May 1952
He got a bachelor degree in Law and graduated from the Police Academy in Damascus
He was posted in several intelligence, and administrative posts including the Head of the Political Intelligence Department in Latakia.
Then he was the Mayor of Latakia, Idleb, and Al Quntaitra before becoming the Syrian Ambassador in Iraq.
He announced his defection last month.
Welcome Mr. Ambassador! Thank you Mr. Ahmad!
The Syrian Prime Minister Riyadh Hijab defected last Sunday, and thus he becomes the highest ranking politician to defect
Since the beginning of the revolution
What are the complications of this defection?
The process of defection is very difficult.
- How? - First of all, it is very scary.
There is a great fear in the hearts of officers and soldiers in the army.
And they are observed all day and night, and everywhere soldiers and officers go.
The security structure inside the army units also plays a role.
Within the army units
This structure does not allow defection, and makes it very difficult.
- That applies to soldiers. How about politicians?
- It also applies to politicians. - Everyone is under supervision.
- Even prime ministers and ambassadors?
We are a country that depends on intelligence forces in the first place.
- How is that? -In such countries, everyone, starting from the genitor to the Vice president
- They spy on each other? - They all spy on each other, and everyone is under supervision, and supervises others.
Unfortunately, Syria was built to be like this since the 1960s.
The army was built to be like that, so is the branches of the Baath Party. The concepts and theories of Baath Party are based on this.
It all serves one person.
The economy was based on this, and so was the society as whole.
Even sports
Students from kindergarten are taught these principles, and the first thing they open their eyes on
- Is that Hafez and Bashar Al Assad are our presidents forever. - "forever" means that they are made holy, and this concept is given to kids like milk
Since the 1060s up to this date.
As I was on my way to the studio I met my colleague Mohammad Kuraishan.
He gave me an article from the newspaper Al Quds Al Arabi. The article said that you're not so happy really about Riyadh Hijab's defection
Since you were his boss one day, and he was your office manager.
You were the Secretary-General of Al Baath Party in Deir Az-Zoor in 1994 while he was your secretary. He used to call you "boss."
So you're not happy by the fact that someone you used to be his boss is now a Prime Minister.
He's now the highest rank among the defectors. Before it was you, and you will lose some important roles.
No, first of all I welcomed his defection on your channel when he defected.
It's true that we used to work together when I was the Secretary-General of the party, and it's true that I was his boss.
He was responsible for the students in Deir Az-Zour.
- But there is nothing personal between us at all. - Of course there is something personal. He used to call you "Boss".
Please Mr. Ahmad! Riyadh Hijab and the government were not satisfying the people before their defection, but now it's different.
After defection, repentance is possible.
- And revolution washes previous sins. - You've just joined the revolution a month ago.
- I was participating even before I announced my defection. - Everyone says that.
- No, no, no. - Everyone says: "I was with the revolution from the beginning, and I made this revolution" and so on.
- My words are reliable, and everyone can hear them in Syria and Deir Az-Zour. - Riyadh Hijab will say I participated in the revolution.
I thanked Riyadh Hijab for his defection, and I congratulated him. He's a man, and the Syrian regime didn't like him even before he defected for sure.
Sure!
But after defection it's different.
I welcomed this step and there is nothing personal between us at all.
You can even cooperate with him?
It's too early to talk about that. He's just arrived to safety.
He arrived in Jordan yesterday night.
He will join you in Qatar. Have you any idea?
No
Is there an intention to form a government in exile?
- Who will do that? - The politicians who defected
I haven't been in contact with the opposition abroad.
And you have planned nothing?
I'm only working with the opposition inside Syria.
I don't think of any post, or to be part in any transitional government before Assad's regime falls.
So working on sharing posts and important positions is not yet a subject to talk of until Assad's regime falls.
Something worries people a lot, and they want to understand it. Please explain it to us briefly.
In a big country like Syria, defections are still individual.
I mean, we haven't seen a defection for an entire battalion for example.
We haven't seen a defection for an entire government. It's still an ambassador, a minster. So basically it's individual process.
So why is it that despite all of this bloodshed and the brutal war from the regime
- اشخاص مافي مجموعة مافي كتلة That only individuals announce defections and not entities?
- This needs long explanation, but I'll make it short. - Briefly!
- after the events of the 1980s -1982
Yes, it started in 1980 and ended in 1982.
Or rather it started by the end of 1979 and ended in 1982.
Syria changed completely.
- The orientation changed, and the form changed. - How?
Economy, politics, parties, army and security, everything changed in Syria.
Before the 1980s, there was some kind of fear, forbidden, embarrassment from wrong doing.
- Even the regime wanted to negotiate with the Muslims Brotherhood at that time. - Exactly!
Hafez Assad had different calculations.
The events of the 1980s
- Was badly exploited by Hafez Al Assad - How?
Badly exploited
He smashed everything in Syria.
And started with the army.
He started to clear the army from all the good qualified staff it had.
- this started in the 1960s - but it appeared clearly after the events of the 1980s.
After the eighties there was real eradication to all the honourable and national military officers
To those who have minimum of morality and patriotism
So the demobilizations started for hundreds of officers in the armed forces
After the events in the eighties
"sympathety with the Muslim Brotherhood"
and "relation to the Muslim Brotherhood from the fourth, fifth and the sixth generations" were crimilized.
There is a unreal, illogical and immoral tenor
I have some western studies that say that the percentage of Alawi military officers have become 90% of the army officers
Alright we have to keep away from sectratian topics
Because we in Syria are far from this. But, unfortunately, the regime forces the Syrian people to this direction.
It guided them to this direction.
Or it wants them to be guided in this direction
After the eighties unfortunately, the foucse was only
On the Alawi military officers
Everyone from other sect is subject to demobilization, detention, prison, execution and everything else
The General Mustafa Tlass was the defence minister. He served as a decoration for regime's public image
Over three or four years after 82
So at the end of the eighties, Hafez al-Assad applied very serve rules
- So at the end of the eighties the Alawaites percentage was the largest - It was! and in a very large, huge and illogical way
So all the sects constitute isn’t 10% of the Syrian Arab Army
And the respected Alawi sect
This isn’t to condemn the Alawi as a sect
It's to condemn Bashar al-Assad and Hafez al-Assad who sought for this matter
The Alawaite are respected and national sect with great history and role
We’re talking about the sect that isn’t more than 10% in the army
Okay but the one who pushed it towards this direction is Hafez al-Assad
So he can control the Syrian people
This caused their death and not their glory as it is said
Certainly it led them to damage
Its certainly not to the interest of the Alawaite.
All the educated honourable Alawi know exactly this plan.
Is this the main reason to for what makes the defection operation individual until now and not a group operation
Sir the Syrian Arab army was meant to be
unfortunately sectarian army by Hafez al-Assad.
some of the analysts say it's the country's amy, it's a national army and and so on. There isn’t a national army in Syria
Honestly, since the end of the eighties and until now the army became sectarian.
Hafez al-Assad didn’t let any leaders from the Sunni, Christian Druze or Ismsaili. It was only limited to a specific group.
He did it because he wanted to impose his control on the army
He wants to bring in the Alawi sect in this tunnel, and that would result negatively on Syria
But we have Suunni, Kurdish and Christian prominent figures which seemed be leading the army.
Sir about the General Mustafa Tlass
The General Mustafa Tlass couldn’t do anything
Even the head of the office didn’t follow his orders
The General used to be the Defence Minister and the Deputy Commanding General. But everyone's signature was useless
if there was no signature from the Chief of the Security Command
Who was he? He was Ali Aslan or any another person
All of them are Alawi Yes
So what ever the chief signs doesn’t work
As the General Mustafa Tlass has another job as a cover for other things
Okay I'll tell you about the strongest hand which Bashar Al Assad uses
And he’s Ali Mamlouk
Ali Mamlouk is a Sunni from Damascus and now he’s the man responsible about the main repression in Syria
Your going to tell me now that he his signature is worthless?
No, No. He's not Bashar' Al Assad's man at all.
Bashar al-Assad now assigns him as the head of the security forces.
but this is all no more than formalities.
The action isn’t in the national security
Where’s the action? The action is in the military intelligence in the air intelligence
Okay
Ali Mamlouk is close to the president but he doesn’t have his complete trust
Ali Mamlouk I am sure and I heard his conversation
I heard direct conversation from him that he’s in pain like all the other people
How did he get in pain?
- Believe me believe me - Ali Mamlouk's hands are contaminated with blood more than any one else
That’s right that’s right How will a man who slaughters people everyday be in pain?!!
I am not with that at all
Ali Mamlouk is the head and is he’s close to the president and I am sure he committed hundreds things but
When he sits with his conscience I know he’s getting hurt
I am sure he’s in pain
Let’s not talk about the conscience now. I don’t want to talk about conscience when speaking about a killer a and a person who practises ***
It’s alright It’s alright we also can't do that Mr.Ahmad.
not all the Syrian Intelligence forces support Bashar al-Assad
-ok let me understand -with the proof please the proof
-the explosion that happened in the national security building -there is still ambiguity in the explosion
-no there isn’t any ambiguity. this explosion happned from inside the national security building and was made by members of the security who work inside the office
No other forces can go inside the building of the national security except those who work there.
I know that many of the security officers and members who are with the revolution and they know everything about the revolution
For example, a patrol moved from a branch towards to an area
Before the patrol arrived to the area, the information would already arrive to the people
-all the security is bad some people are sympathetic because it’s also the Syrian security -as you were former security guy you always talked about this topic
Tell me how did the table explode, the table that these people in the meeting were seated arount?
Firstly no one knows exactly how it exploded but there’s analysis only
Analysis through our past knowledge and what we saw
In my opinion the table wasn’t a big table and it was a normal room
The whole room area is 4×6 meters or maybe 7 meters
The explosion was described that that people outside didn’t hear it
The explosion happened under the table
In my estimation its a sticky explosive device as small as palm of a hand
It was under the table, and no one could put it other than Hiesham Bektar driver or Hiesham Bektar guard
Or may be it's the employee at the office of Hiesham Bektar. He's one the people who come in and out each minute to the office
Without taking permission
That’s what happens. that’s the only way they do it
-no that needs time and needs training -no no it doesn’t it doesn’t need training or time or anything else
It only needs a believer
The revolutionists found a man who belonged to them in side this office
I am sure, I don’t have information but my analytic is that
And i assure you that’s what happened
Because its impossible for someone to go in Hiesham Bektar office
The head of the national security in Syria
He plants an explosive device or bomb and he gets out
From the same office
From the same office and that’s proof for my words
That there was security members sympathetic to the revolution because they are their families, children and siblings
I have read some reports that say that for the iranians losing Hisham Bakhtiar is much bigger than losing Bashar Al-assad .
No
No Hisham Bakhtiar's personality is not as strong as his reputation suggest.
What !! there is no one with a strong personality ,They are all just names .
Mr. I'm telling you Hafez al-Assad didn't leave any powerful men in Syria .
Hafez al-Assad emptied Syria from any powerful men .
Then what were they ?
They were Just employees.
Employees!
The prime minister was an employee and all the rest just employees .
But people were terrified of them. I have been taken twice by the Syrian security. People were afraid of them .
what were they afraid of ?
The employees there, are from those big names .
Yes yes , You are right i can .
They can terrify the people who work under them , Sure they can .
But to those above them they are just a zero , nothing .
They are all just zeros!
just zeros believe me .
Ok tell us who is not a zero in the regime .
Just Bashar al-assad , And no one else .
No way !! Some information say that Bashar is not the real ruler , The one who really rule is Alawi sect Council .
Or the orders that comes from Iran .
There is nothing called Alawi Sect Council .
But more than one person inside the regime told me about this council .
Please , I'm an expert about the regime .
And the Alawi sect , there is nothing called Alawi Sect Council .
There is no fact to support this .
There is Bashar and also his close family his wife ,mother and his brother . His mother has a part in the authority ?
Yes , she has a part and she also encourages him .
What about his sister ?
No his sister no .
what about his brother .
Yes he has a part .
Tell me what is his brother's role .
Does his wife participate , His wife is a sunni .
Ok ok what about his uncle Rami Makhlouf , Abu Rami .
Yes , He is a main player in the game .
He is a money mafia in Syria .
He collects Syria's money and Puts it in the hands of Bashar .
Ambassador excuse me! you are now telling me things that sometimes contradict with a lot of the information that spread around .
Like the information that Bashar's personality is weak and that he doesn't have any control or power .
At first you would think so .
Who knows Bashar, how things go in the government
And who rules in Syria would know that.
And i have been around those people .
I'm not an outsider.
But i'm not close to the first circle.
I'm not close to his circle but i'm close to Bakhtian , close to the prime minister .
I'm close to the heads of Intelligence services , I'm connected to them. we have deep conversations .
There is an important point here , can you believe that Ahmad muhammad Said Bakhtian
Yes? Criticizes the regime more than regime's opponents in front of people he trusts
Remind me what his position is. Muhammad is the Vice Associate to Baath party .
Even the the Vice Associate is worth nothing .
All of them are worth nothing .
But this is in the party system and in the country's constitution: any intelligence official is higher than the party in rank .
In our constitution, in the country's constitution, this party leads the country and the society. Article eighth was canceled .
The party is the basis.
The party is every thing .
National Security Bureau, What is the National Security Bureau? it is one of the national leadership offices.
No not any more. In the new constitution, it follows the president .
In the new constitution every thing is in the president's hands .
Even what was a little bit in the hands of the party is now not any more .
Instead of the reforms we ended up with nothing .
Ok , let us now talk about the circle of decision-makers .
Yes, The circle of decision-makers .
You say that Bashar is the strongst man and that he takes the decisions .
Along with his close and small family .
Bashar is the strongst man and he has the First and final word .
But there are some influential entities , sure .
Tell me what are they ?
In the inside , his family his close family .
Ok , this is one .
No more , only his family .
Only his close family !! what about the Security agencies ?
Ok but believe me those don't affect his Strategic decision at all.
Their job is just to execute on land .
They can , But all of them Just work like machines .
like a mechanical machine.
All of them , They don't think or discuss .
How the decisions are issued and how they execute it .
What is the other influential entities on Bashar .
From outside Syria .
Tell me one ?
Iran and Hezbollah .
Hezbollah have influence on Bashar .
-Exactly , they persuade him. -It's not the other way around?
Tell me about Iran's part is the syrian case .
Iran considers Syria and the rule in Syria as it is main source of strength .
Against it is alleged struggle with what they call the power of big satan .
They say it not us .
But tell us what happens in secret.
What's in secret goes back to Hafez Al-assad's time and to the family's history .
Yeah , All the talks of Qirdaha people
When they feel safe and when there is no one that they don't turst
confirm that the family roots goes back to Iran .
They are Persians and not Arabs at all .
The family came to Syria Mindlessly in the times of darkness and ignorance .
The family name was Al-Wahish
Their grandfather is Al-Wahish
The stories were published. even "Patrixan" published it .
It is known information. This information is important so we can understand the nature of this family's relationship with Iran .
Does Iran –when supporting Syria- consider al-Assads as an extension to the Iranian or Shia's influence?
the Iranian Parisian, they consider them as a part of the Parisian project.
and hafiz al-Assad was amongst the contributing and the planning and funding parts who supported al-Khomaini revolution
and he had a very strong relationship with al-Khomaini, and he was one of the contributor to the Iranian revolution,
-the impact, well I've told you that Iran, Hizbullah, and the family.
Which one of these three takes decisions? Yes?
of these three?
well, now , it is said that Asef Shawkat was powerful and Bashar brother was powerful too , Maher al-Assad was powerful.
how powerful they were as military leaders? Maher's influence is very limited.
how come? He is a very complicated character Excuse me, I know Maher's character very well, his character is very weak
he is unstable, almost a mourn,
unlike what is media spreading that he is the leader of the fourth division actually the fourth division is submitting to other officers' control
and so far he knows very little about it.
but he is the president's brother and certainly he has an impact- in one way or another- but I believe that his impact on the president is minimal
Assef is not an easy person at all
was he killed?
yes he was killed.
but Assef was very careful when dealing with Bashar
is he afraid of him? And he was careful when dealing with Basel
his brother Basel, Yes, the one that died in a car accident
they are trying to make up a story that they hijacked his sister and all that. Yes, well he's very daring
and very ambitious
and he has a strong character
as a person, such characteristics can be worrying for the family
does this mean that Bashar got rid of him?
may be
as far as I see, he didn't kill him He didn't kill him, but he got rid of him
definitely got rid of him
Assef was an ambitious man and that was threatening for Bashar
and threatening for Mohammad Makhlof and for the young family
so they used to assign limited power to him, well he was appointed as the chief of the military intelligence division
he even couldn't punish an officer who was under his supervision
why?
he could never punish him, and this was a famous incident: that he wanted to punish an officer but the punishment was canceled by the president
so the president appointed him formally just to satisfy his sister
just to satisfy his sister His sister loved Assef, didn't she?
whether she loved him or not- I really don't know- but it was to satisfy his sister.
no, no, she loved him
to satisfy his sister
but practically he doesn't have any power
To an extent that he was the chief of the military intelligence division , yet Assef Shawakat couldn't punish one of the officers under his supervision
the punishment was not carried out, instead it was canceled by the president of the republic
what authorities does he have? No authorities?
well he has some formal authorities, for his family merely
Because he was a real threat for them
now we have four main security organizations
who are responsible for oppressing the Syrian revolution, in addition to Shabbiha
first , tell us about Shabbiha, who are they? who leads them? how did they first strat
we'll listen to the answer after a short break, we'll be back after a short break To continue our talk.
with the defected Syrian Ambassador in Iraq Nawaf al-Fares, stay with us.
Without Borders
Without Borders
welcome back, Without Borders with the defected Syrian ex-ambassador in Iraq
Nawaf al-Fares, we were discussing the security organizations and the defecting And what the regime is doing to oppress the revolution in Syria
first what is the story of Shabbiha? In other words, what is the meaning of Shabbiha?
in Egypt they are called assassins "Baltajah"
in Yemen they are assassins "Balatijah"
in Syria they are called "Shabbiha"
lets assume that the meaning is the same
I mean all these words refer to the same meaning
same meaning but each country use a special term
Shabbiha, this word was first known in Syria at the end of the Eighties, and the beginning of Nineties
so it was a new term?
yes it was at the end of the Eighties and the beginning of Nineties
it was first introduced in al-Kurdaha
the hometown of al-Assad the hometown of al-Assad and his family.
al-Assad sons introduced this term, and they were the first to act as shabbiha, and to carry out "tashbeeh"
and the first victims for their crimes were the very residents of al-Kurdaha
what is "tashbeeh"?
'tashbeeh" in Egypt means to swear or yell
no "tashbeeh" is not swearing, it is to bond a person to the wall
to bond a person to the wall, with his face facing the wall and torture him
so this the source of the term
"Shabeh"
the implementing was carried out by the sons of the brother of the president - Monzer al-Assad-
if people of Lattakia are listening they know exactly what I'm talking about
Fawaz al-Assad
you are an ex-mayor of Lattakia, and you were an administrator of the political security
I served there for ten years
ten years' work in Lattakia
Fawaz al-Assad, Monzer al-Assad, Helal al-Assad, Haroon al-assad, Mohammad al-Assad
who was called "the shaikh of the mountain"
this is the group that started doing Shabbiha's deeds in Kurdaha.
smuggling, drugs, immoral activities in every aspect.
to an extent that the residents of Kurdaha were their victims This means that they themselves were Shabbiha, they have started
yes, they were to use this term They started to harass people and to carry out criminal activities
exactly, al-Assads, and the victims were people of their village, al-Kurdaha
for example a decent respectable man in Kurdaha
couldn't walk in the street, couldn't sit in a coffee shop, couldn't To this extent.
no way , he would be humiliated immediately
this group would humiliate him immediately, and off course they managed to gather some of the alike
and you as a mayor, couldn't you do anything about it? No one was capable of doing anything
because even if someone did anything, he would be killed.
Wow? To this extent? To the extent of killing?
I'll tell you an incident I have witnessed.
Ok! tell me one incident.
Ok! one
We had orders from Hafez Al Assad
- When? - When I was the Head of the Political Security Department in Latakia.
- 1994? - 1993
We were informed that smuggling and other acts of the Shabiha were creating an intolerable mess.
So Hafiz Assad ordered the head of the security departments including the Political Security and the Avian Security departments
I was one of those who carried out the task
We were ordered to quell the smuggling by storming Al Kurdaha and seizing all the smuggled items from Assad's family.
-The orders came directly from Hafez Al Assad?! - Exactly
The ones who received the orders were General Adnan Bader Al Hassad, the Head of the Political Security Department
And Ibrahim Huwija. If they can hear me now, they can't deny this.
General Ibrahim Huwija was the Head of the Avian Security Department.
We stormed Al Kurdaha with a great force.
We brought 10 trucks of smuggled items.
All smuggled items!! What kind of things were they?
10, and they were mostly cigarettes.
mostly cigarettes!
- They were using the port to smuggle it, right? - From Lebanon, from the coastal boarders and from everywhere.
Most of it was coming from Lebanon and from the coastal boarders.
From the sea and the port - you didn't arrest anyone of course.
No, they tried to arrest us.
They blocked the way of the police patrols
- with arms? - Yes, a young man called Maher Deeb. He was armed.
They killed five of our police members.
- Oh! - Yes, sir.
- And you couldn't even shoot a bullet?
No, we fired and hurt the head of the group which attacked the police.
the group which attacked the police?
A week later, the goods were returned back to them.
10 trucks in Humaim Airport in Latakia
Were handed to Maher Deeb in Humaim Airport
By orders of Hafez Al Assad.
This incident is well known all people in Latakia.
What do you say?
I'm saying facts. I'm an eyewitness in your programme. I was participated in executing this mission.
I'm an witness in the programme "A Witness from our Time"
"A Witness from our Time" or "Eyewitness" I don't know the name of the programme.
I was an executer.
I was an executer in this mission.
So you see. They killed five policemen.
And after five days, not even a week,
Maher Deeb was released from prison by order of Hafez Al Assad, and the good were given back to him in Hamim Airport.
Ok! Tell me what's the secret here?
The big secret is that he was the leader of the gang.
Why did Syria reach this stage?
Ok! You've lived 10 years in Latakia. I want to ask you a question which I have some information about.
But I want it to be attested by you.
- Please! - Is it true that Refat Al Assad had his own port in Latakia?
All kinds of smuggled goods in the world such as drugs, slaves, and other things could go through this port.
True
True!
I entered this port.
Can you explain more about his piece of information let viewers hear it.
We had an order. You know Refat Assad.
He's a multimillionaire nowadays.
- He quarreled with the regime. - with is brothers
He established the Defense Brigades
He had a building in an area in latakia called Afamia
A very huge building
And it had a port.
It had everything.
Everything!
- It was his. Nobody could enter it. - Everything!
There were in it more than 300 soldiers.
They were his?
Yes. We had orders from Bashar Al Assad.
I was the mayor of Latakia at that time.
And I took the order.
We were ordered to storm that place and take control of it.
- Even though Refat lived abroad for a long time, and had transferred billions of money outside, and bought hotels and everything. - Yes.
So the security departments met in Latakia.
When was that Mr. Ambassador?
In 1999
Exactly 1999
Ok.
the subordinate security departments met in Latakia
And the Military Police and Military Intelligence were ordered to storm the place.
By orders of the president
The place was stormed, and they faced resistance from 8 a.m. till 2 p.m.
Wow!
The security forces couldn't break into the place.
So we called the army, and the tanks shelled the place until they were able to take control of it.
What did you find inside?
People from various nationalities, Pilipinos, and others
- They were workers - They say that all the smugglers and Mafia in the world used this port.
So here we have a gang leader, who owned a port, and a country protected him.
- Yes, exactly. - This doesn't exist anywhere in the world not even in Colombia!
This is the truth. I saw that. Thant's what happened.
I should make another episode of this programme with you about this topic.
But let's go back to what's going on in Syria today.
- Yes, but it's important what viewers know who Syria was ruled, and why it came to this situation. - Yes.
- We spoke about the Shabiha, and that Assad's family created thim. - exactly.
How strong they are in numbers approximately? 10 or 20 Thousands? More?
And they kill people.
Ad we have said, Assad's family found the Shabiha.
It spread from Latakia to other provinces.
The harm they were causing reached Qamishli. Can you imagine that they have influence from the coast till Qamishli?
So the smugglers and the Mafia
- Were present in all Syrian territory up to the borders of Iraq. - Yes, in all the Syrian territory.
The Shabiha today
The first demonstration took out in Homs.
In Al Sa'a (the Clock) quarter in Homs
People from all sects took out to the street.
Some Alawis were also there.
Also Christians and Ismailis
- Homs has this mixture of sects? - Yes.
The regime was alarmed.
- So it started a plan to start the flame of a sectarian conflict.
And spreading it across the Syrian land.
They brought it to the attention of the Alawis in particular and warned them that it will happen.
So under the leadership of Bassam Hassan, an officer in the Republican Guard,
- He's the Head of the Department of the Republican Guard. - You've mentioned him in more than a place.
He's the one who was in charge of assassinating Brigadier General Mohammad Sulaiman a few years ago.
So it's true that Mohammad Sulaiman was killed by Bashar?
I know nothing of that.
- The *** was obscure - Like Mafia movies
Brigadier General Bassam Hassan and General Ali Younsi were in charge of this.
- Of revitalizing the Shabiha - Of starting a conflict between the Alawis and the Sunnis
- These two were Alwis or Sunnis? - Alawis
They had to direct the conflict in Homs to be against another sect instead of against a government or dictator.
They created "public groups"
They created "public groups" on sectarian basis
From the Alawis
And they charged them against the Sunnis.
You know how things in Homs . I know Homs. I have been there, and I've seen that the Alwai live on the sides of the city .
So the regime started to push Alwai guys in that direction .
to kill sunnis. Of course, the normal reaction is killing the killer .
And there is an old vengeance since 1982 .
It is an action and a reaction. he succeeded inflame this idea in Homs .
And, of course, the one who adopted this operation is Rami Makhlouf .
He started recruiting the sect's men .
he used the ones with no job , ignorant , uneducated or stupid,
and the ones with no values. Of course, these are not their qualities. most of them are honorable , respectful and educated Syrians
- who don't accept what's happening, but, of course, there are some bad people in every society and every sect. - Of course of course .
You find them every where . You find bad people .
So Rami used them .
And he started giving them salaries .
35 thousand Syrian Pound for each gangster .
Almost 1000 dollar! almost! maybe less
1000 , We are talking about the 35 in the past . now the Pound has collapsed .
Almost 700 dollars .
It is as much as the salary of a Governor two years ago before the revolution .
35,000 . excluding the bribes .
Not all of them accept bribes . you saying this because you were a governor , ok .
No no i'm telling you facts. Not all of them do it . I have lots of stories about governors bribes in Syria .
Oh sir there is corruption to the bone in Syria but, of course, there are some exceptions .
He started giving them salaries and enrolling them in quick military courses .
- Here thugs turned from working for themselves to becoming a military entity that works for the regime . - Gangs that works for the regime!
For the regime Killing people and participating in suppressing the revolution .
Yeah .
Here is the story of shbiha (Thugs) . From the beginning until now .
We have four agencies beside the shbiha now , just so people can understand how their story begins . And to explain why people calls security shbiha and what does shabiha mean ?
The State Security Service ... or no there is no time to talk about it. There's something bigger than this: The Air Force Intelligence
When I started reading about The Air Force Intelligence, I found out that Hafez Al Assad himself established it because he was the Air Force Commander .
For protecting the president airplane and his movements ..etc .
How did this military apparatus turn from protecting airplanes to capturing ,investigating , torturing and killing people?
No no let us talk about this a little bit it's all connected .
- I wish we would have time. - All the security apparatus are supposed to be specialized in something .
Meaning is that Political Security should be specialized in the affairs of the Ministry of Interior only .
- Normally if you work at Political security your job should be watching interior officers . - Exactly .
International Security should be about the security of the country against foreign conspiracies , Internal and external branch .
- Military security should be specialized in the army . - Right , the army .
Air security is originally a branch of the Military Intelligence Division
Like I told you specialized in the presidential plane and in the airports where the president plane land .
To protect the plane by air force .
Exactly , air security .
All of these entities grew after the eighties .
- All of them . - It is not something new this growth. It all started after what happened in Hama in the eighties .
No no after Hama's events, all of them became central administrations and in each province there is a branch that follows it .
And in each area in Syria, there a department that follows that branch .
And in every big village a detachment that follow that department .
So they spread all over Syria in horrible and evil way .
After the eighties events. All of this happened after the eighties events .
- This growth! - Meaning: if we want to understand the structure of Syria, we have to go back to Hama events always .
exactly it is the beginning .
it is the beginning of oppression in Syria .
It is the beginning of destruction in Syria .
It was an excuse for Hafez Al Assad to destroy down everything in Syria .
To destroy humans , Land , Economy , Business ,Tourism , Security , Politics and everything. The party was the last thing he destroyed .
After Hama events?
It was the key for Hafez Al Assad to swoop down Syria .
Now we go back to Air Force Intelligence .
Air Force Intelligence is a dirty entity .
Restricted . Why it is dirty ?
Dirty in the way it treats people even before the revolution .
I'm not talking about now ,now all of them are dirty .
Nothing is clean now .
But even before the events .
Before the revolution and events . They used to take people .
Anyone who goes inside that place, it impossible for him to come out .
It doesn't matter innocent or not, and if he came out, he would be handicapped or worse . you mean he might die !
- It is Impossible no one comes out . - Oh God .
An entity built in a very dirty Sectarian way .
It was build Very tightly .
Headed now by an officer named Major General Jamil Hassan .
A sick officer .
He was very close to Hafez the father .
Mad and sick, he used to work at airport security in the raid platoon. the only language that he understands is the language of *** .
He doesn't understand anything. he kills people depending on their ID card .
Kill . imagine , upon their ID card .
No detainee since the beginning of the revolution went there and came out .
It doesn't matter innocent or not ,Male ,Female ,Old ,young . Any sect , Sunni , Druze but not Alawi
Yeah .
No one came out , I will tell you a story .
If you allow me .
He was telling this story and he was bragging about it .
He himself , Jamil Hassan . He himself telling one of his colleagues
And spreading it , That he asked president Bashar ,
To let him kill 1 million Syrian and he will go to The Hague .
To this extent !
Yeah . People have no value !!
unlimited disregard and bloodiness
Believe me even more .
The Cellars of intelligence services now is witnessing a smirch of shame to anyone who call himself human .
Never .
Whatever your religion ,Race , in the air force intelligence you will see wonders .
There is no humans there .
Anyone who goes inside never comes out .
If you have a story tell us .
I don't have , what I have can't be said on television .
Someone told me that one of the air force officers was interrogate with three or four guys ..
Yeah it's him , it's Major General Jamil . Himself .
Major General Jamil was investigating two lawyers ,
From Damascus suberb! they were accused with something, and he brought them to his office to interrogate them ,
Of course political charge . Political of course .
and while interrogating them, he received a phone call that one of his patrols is engaged in a shootout with a group of rebels ,
So he pulled his gun and shot the two lawyers in his office .
In his office , he killed them .
He was like I'm not going to waste my time interrogating them. I have no time for this ,
And I would have to interrogate them . No he killed them in his office .
He rang the bell for the janitor to come and take their bodies .
And to clean the office .
That how things go in Syria now .
This is reality in Syria now .
This is an image of what Bashar is doing now .
Meaning: it's impossible for this regime to continue, but Syria will pay a very big price .
Very big price .
In society , economy , humans ,the human losses , the economic losses .
Society problems , Sowing hatred . Even though the regime is over but the price is still high .
I expect things to take more time .
I ask Allah for it to end soon , but i think that Syrian people still have a difficult phase ahead of them .
There are an ugliness in the way they *** people and the role of security divisions in this .
Which i discussed with you and it was our main subject .
Sir this regime at the beginning of events killed from both Alawi and sunni .
And it have a history in Hama .
The people of Hama know them very well .
I wish we would have a chance to learn more things from you , maybe we could arrange another interview in my other show which will be coming back to air soon .
Thank you Mr ambassador Thank you very much . Thank you .
I thank you to our dear viewers , We hope we gave you a clear image ,
From inside Syria . I welcome you in twitter .
- @amansouraja
Or
- @A_belahodood
Thank you very much .
At the end This is Ahmad mansor , presented : Without Boarders .
May peace and God's mercy and blessings be upon you .