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>> This is an oral history interview
with former State Representative, Alvin C. Bush,
who is Chairman Emeritus
of the Pennsylvania College Technology Board of Directors.
Mr. Bush served ten terms in the state legislature,
joined the Governing Board
of then Williamsport Area Community College in 1988,
sponsored legislation in the Pennsylvania House
of Representatives to create Penn College in 1989
and served 10 years as the first Chair of the Penn College Board.
This interview is being conducted on December 10,
2013 in Williamsport, Pennsylvania.
The interviewer is Tom Speicher.
The camera operator is Chris Leigh.
Mr. Bush thanks so much for taking the time to do this.
>> Al Bush: My pleasure.
>> I'm going to start back in the beginning.
Where did you grow up?
>> Al Bush: Well, I was born in Philipsburg and my father,
well he had quite a history of--
often thought he was a lot like Lincoln.
He was born back in the backwoods of Clearfield County.
He had to quit school in the 8th grade
because his father had a lot of debts
from his mother's what turned out to be a terminal illness.
And he had to go to work in the clay mines
with his dad to pay off the bills.
But he came out and he had some talent as a mechanic
and automobiles were just coming along.
He saved his money, went to Detroit, went to school.
He became a good mechanic and he started his own business,
eventually got in the bus business.
He came to Williamsport when he won the franchise
to convert the trolleys to buses in the 30s.
And my first awareness
of the Williamsport Technical Institute was occasioned
by the fact that the trolley barn was
where the technical institute eventually grew
and I wasn't very old but I knew that was going on.
And, of course, later on when I became older I knew a lot more
about it.
But it had a personal kind of influence because of that.
And I always even as a youngster I was--
and while I was going to high school, Williamsport High School
and I was very aware of the technical institute
and what it was doing.
I had some friends that were students there.
>> You were right across the street.
>> Al Bush: Yes.
Yeah and George Park, I never got to know him intimately
but he, he was a real pioneer.
He understood the need for technical training.
They didn't call it technology in those days.
It was all technical, but the importance of training people
for the real job market and he was highly successful.
Developed a national reputation, international I guess
because his school is so unique.
And of course, then as time went on wow, what was really
in my first term as-- in the legislature,
Bill Scranton was governor and one
of his prime interests was establishing a community
college system.
And part of the plan was if that legislation passed
and the system was created then the technical institute would be
converted to our community college.
And that, of course, was highly interesting as far
as I was concerned because I thought so much of the value
of the technical institute.
Well about that time oh my memory is going.
The man who was president of the technical institute--
>> Kenny Carl.
>> Al Bush: Kenny Carl, of course, I knew him very well.
Came to me and he had an idea for an amendment
to the Community College Act.
This was when it was just taking shape.
He wanted to recognize
that supplying technical training was much more expensive
then just liberal arts.
Well virtually all you needed was a book and blackboard.
They had to have labs and machines
and all sorts of things.
So, he was advocating an amendment to the Act
that would create a separate kind of funding
for the community colleges
for any technical education they were providing.
There was only one other potential community college
that was-- had its toe in that water.
So, we were kind of fighting a lonely battle
and he persuaded me to take that on.
I was-- I had been fortunate enough to become a member
of the Appropriation's Committee as a young legislator
and I managed to get the bill re-referred
to the Appropriation's Committee
where I could do something with it.
We had quite a fight about that.
It eventually, the bill itself got into a Conference Committee
because I go the amendment in, in committee
to create that kind of funding.
And the-- there were many opponents that felt
that was unfair favoritism for Williamsport,
but I stuck to my guns.
I developed enough support that we passed, passed the House
with my amendment in it.
The Senate then disapproved because the Senator,
Pro Tem at the time was from Pittsburgh and they were set
to get their own community college
and he didn't want any part of that.
So, it ended up in Conference Committee.
I was appointed
to the Conference Committee representing the House
and we had a knock down drag out fight as to whether or not
that amendment was going to stay in.
Well, the way a Conference Committee is constituting,
you have to have the approval of the people
from each House to get a report.
And I wouldn't budge, so he finally gave up.
I guess he thought he could eventually get rid
of that amendment.
But anyhow, it was reported out with the amendment in it
and we passed it that way, but it then--
the Senate knocked it out again.
However, at about the same time the sponsorship problem
was brewing.
But anyway the way, the way our community college was set
up every community college had to have a local sponsor.
And that had to be someone with taxing authority.
Well because we service such a big area our local sponsor ended
up being 20 school districts that are covering 10 counties.
It was completely unwieldy.
The college had to get the approval of each one
of those school districts every time they passed the budget
every year.
And some of them that had that responsibility did very little
but go around dealing with those school districts.
And during that time I got separate bill passed
and it was called variable stipend legislation
that provided the extra payments for technical training
as a separate act and that really kept the college going
through the midst of this crisis.
>> If we could, if we could back up a little bit,
you mentioned your dad coming to Williamsport.
>> Al Bush: Yes.
>> Developing the busing industry.
Then he eventually was elected to Congress.
>> Al Bush: Yes, he was.
>> And how long did he serve in Congress?
>> Al Bush: He was in his fifth term
when he died sudden heart, heart attack.
So, he'd been down there a while.
>> Did that spark your interest?
>> Al Bush: Oh yeah.
I managed his campaigns.
I was just a green kid back from the war and just gotten
out of college myself, was his assistant at the bus company.
And when he decided to run a lot of people had been after him.
He asked me to manage his campaign.
Well, I'd never managed a campaign, but I did it
and we created a lot of unusual things as far
as our publicity was concerned.
And my father had a personality that a lot
of people said he reminded them of Will Rogers.
He just never met a stranger and people like him.
He wasn't hard to sell.
>> Well when you came back
from the war you said you went to college.
What college did you go to?
>> Al Bush: University of North Carolina.
Naturally I'm a basketball fan.
>> Right. And when you were at high school
in Williamsport what's your impression of what was
across the street
in the Williamsport Technical Institute?
Did it have a good reputation?
>> Al Bush: Oh yeah.
It had a very strong reputation.
Oh there was the typical attitude problem
with some students that looked down their nose on the kids
that were taking the technical courses,
but that was just stupidity.
Those guys were very happy with what they were doing
and they were getting good training.
I always wished that I could take both things
at the same time because I would have like to have taken some
of their courses and some of them were good friends.
>> You mentioned you didn't know Dr. Parks that well.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> But he had a very strong, positive reputation.
>> Al Bush: Oh my goodness, yes.
He, as I said, he was nationally known
by the time the technical institute became a
community college.
He was a pioneer, a real pioneer
because nobody had ever done what he did.
Well Williamsport was the proving ground and it worked.
His students were skilled
and they didn't have any trouble find jobs
when they came of there.
>> Even during the depression.
>> Al Bush: Yeah, and that was the whole idea.
And that's what sparked my interest, well part of it
that I'd seen that I just felt strongly we had
to preserve that and we did.
We were fortunate but it was quite a battle.
>> In 1960, that's when you were first elected
to the State House.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> How excited were you knowing
that this Community College Act was going to come about?
>> Al Bush: Coming along?
>> Yeah.
>> Al Bush: I was--
I was interested because I knew Scranton had it as a major part
of his program that he was advocating.
And I knew how important the technical institute was,
so I knew that needed to be preserved, the basis of it.
And I didn't really expect to be so involved in it, though.
I mean it-- I guess I just had other things
that were of interest.
But it was that, it really was when Ken Carl came to me
about the importance of that additional funding
for the technical courses that I got really interested
and then the heat of the battle it got very interesting
as we went along with it.
>> What was Kenny Carl like?
>> Al Bush: Oh a real nice man, just as friendly
as he could be, down to earth.
There wasn't anything pompous about him.
He'd been a teacher.
I think, I think he taught drafting.
>> Um huh.
>> Al Bush: Before he became president
and he was a very, very likeable man.
We got along famously and he just practically lived
in Harrisburg while we were fighting that through.
But I liked him a lot.
Obviously that's part of the reason he persuaded,
he was so persuasive with me
that we needed to win this battle.
>> But you have to be clear after the Act passed
without the amendment--
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> You were able to get a variable spending bill
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> Passed?
>> Al Bush: Separately.
>> You were crafty.
>> Al Bush: Well I, I knew how it worked.
I mean I, I didn't really expect to ever run for office.
As I said I managed my father's campaigns, the early ones.
I have a lot of shyness about me.
I'm not a stepping forward kind of person
and I didn't see myself as a candidate.
But when he died in office there were a lot of people wanted me
to run for Congress to succeed him.
As a matter of fact, the way it was sitting I could have almost
had it if I'd of just told them I'd do it.
But he died so suddenly I didn't know what was ahead of me.
And so I turned them down and that no more got resolved.
Herm [inaudible] became the candidate.
It was very long after that that some
of the local people switched their guns around
and decided I should run for the legislature.
Well by that time a lot of things had fallen in place,
settling his estate and numbers of things that were
up in the air when the congressional thing was being
talked about.
And somewhat reluctantly I finally decided well,
okay I'll try it.
Well, it was quite a campaign.
There were five people running in the primary
and that was interesting all by itself.
But after I'd won and got down there I found a talent for it
as far as the way legislature worked and was interested
in that because there was an opportunity
to accomplish some things.
And so, I ended up spending 42 years down there in one role
or another with the legislature when I never expected
to be there at all in the first place.
But it-- I did get a lot of things done while I was there,
which was the satisfaction to me.
>> Oh sure.
In those early years of a community college,
late 60s through the mid 70s was the college,
even back then was it viewed differently.
Like it wasn't a typical community college was it?
>> Al Bush: Yeah, it was
and in the early stages a new president came in, in the person
of Bob Breuder and Bob was a doer.
He was aggressive.
He had no diplomacy about him at all and so he stepped
on many toes in his determination
to get things accomplished.
And a lot of people thought the college was getting too big
for itself and they developed a negative attitude toward some
of the leaders in town that shouldn't have had that kind
of attitude, but it was a personal thing.
Many of them thought Bob should be more subservient
in his dealings with them and that wasn't him.
He was a brilliant guy
and he was just exactly the right man during those years
after we solved the sponsorship problem and then began
to really expand the college and its resources.
>> What was your first impression of him
when you first met him?
>> Al Bush: Just about what I've described.
I thought this guy is going to get something done
if he doesn't get too many people mad at him.
He became a great friend of mine and he-- we made a good match.
I could do what he couldn't and vice versa.
But he began expanding the college's reach
and its facilities and so forth and that created controversy
because people thought he was just spending money like wild.
As a matter of fact, when we approached Penn State our first
meeting with representatives almost didn't work
because they had the impression that Penn College,
well it wasn't Penn College it was Williamsport Community
College was broke, that it had been spending itself
into the red.
A lot of things like that and--
>> They were actually relieved you weren't looking for money.
>> Al Bush: Yeah, I-- one of the smartest things I did
in the whole exercise, first of all I got to back up a minute,
it may be the smartest thing I did.
I knew Bob Casey very well.
We were on opposite political parties,
but we liked each other.
We'd gotten to know each other
when we were both new to the Capitol.
We were standing in line beside each other
in the cafeteria one day and started to talk
because the line was moving slowly and we came
out of the line at the same time.
And he suggested we have lunch together, so we sat down
and from there we became friends.
Anyway, as this storm was brewing
up here I decided I was going to go see Bob
and let him know what was the storm that was gathering,
because if the college had gotten into a position
where it had no sponsor and was going to go
out of business it would fall in his lap.
So, I felt he deserved a warning
about what was coming down the road.
And I went in to see him and he said something about,
well what can I do for you today?
And I said, "Nothing, Bob.
I'm here to just tell you something."
And I explained what this was all about and I said,
"I just wanted you to know because I may have to come
to you very quickly at some time to get some decisions made.
And if this isn't handled then you're going
to have a hot potato in your lap."
So he appreciated that and it set the stage for all kinds
of cooperation when the time came.
>> [inaudible] we'll call it the first sponsorship crisis
in the [inaudible] Were you very much involved with that
when the school districts made it apparent
that they wanted out?
>>Al Bush: Oh yeah, yeah.
I-- Breuder set up a committee of people, local people,
that were trying to come up with a solution and I--
it just sort of evolved
that I became the spokesman for that group.
And-- but we were trying everything.
I was trying everything personally to try
to find an alternative.
The one we went to first, and by the way the fact
that they wanted out was no surprise
because they hadn't liked the arrangement from the beginning.
>> From 19--
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> [inaudible] or 67.
>> Al Bush: And they didn't feel they should be involved
in higher education and they had enough problems
with their school district.
So, they, they took a dim view of being sponsors and as soon
as their contract, their 20 year agreement ran
out they wanted out.
Well, our first target was the county commissioners,
because many of the community colleges had
as sponsors county commissioners and I felt
that if we could get our local commissioners on board some
of the surrounding counties commissioners would join in.
I talked to some of them.
They indicated interest
but we couldn't budge our commissioners at all.
They just wanted no part of it.
They didn't feel any responsibility for it.
And so those efforts were in vane
and we tried different things.
When I went back to see Bob Casey
to tell him the worst has happened, in the course
of that discussion he said just kind of in an off-hand way,
well maybe you are going to have to see
if you can make an agreement with someone else,
like Penn State for example, just in passing.
Well, that's about all we mentioned about that.
And before that, we got to that stage, we were desperate.
I had asked him to provide us with some help from some
of his experts down there and he assigned the man
in the Department of Education who was in charge
of higher education to come up here and he worked with me
for two or three weeks just talking
to the commissioners and others.
Finally we just gave up on that
and then there was a young fellow,
gosh I can't remember his name now.
His first name was Michael, he was on City Council
and we'd gotten to know each other.
And I talked to him about did he think it was possible
to get the city to step in, at least temporarily.
And he says, I don't know we can try.
So, the two of us went to see the mayor
and his reaction was I expected somebody was going to come
to my office one of these days about this problem.
Well anyway, he agreed.
He persuaded council and they took it on.
Well, that never was going to work very long
because the way sponsorship worked the sponsor was
responsible for paying a third of their local students
to which the state paid a third, the student paid a third
and the sponsor paid a third.
Well, they didn't have enough students
to finance the operation.
And some of the council got wary about it and so that only lasted
for I can't remember, it was a relatively short time.
And when the Mayor came to me and said they had to give it
up finally we decided well, and I was harkening back
to what Bob Casey had said, that we'd approach Penn State
and see what we could do.
So, we asked Roger Madigan who was in the State Senate then
to talk to Bryce Jordan, who was the President of Penn State.
Roger was on our board and also on Penn State's board.
So he was the logical person to do that and he did.
And Bryce didn't know whether he was interested or not,
but he didn't shut any doors.
And so he agreed to send three
of his top executives to a meeting.
Well our ad hoc group talked it over and decided that three
of the legislators should be our representatives.
I spent I don't know most of two days,
maybe even a third day working
in the college's offices getting completely up to date
on the state of its finances, because I knew that was going
to be one of the major questions.
When we sat down with those people
and it was the senior vice president from Penn State,
the treasurer of Penn State and their top lawyer;
that's who we were meeting with.
>> Is this at Toftrees?
>> Al Bush: Yes, it was.
How'd you know that?
>> I think Gene Yaw told us that.
>> Al Bush: Oh, okay.
Well Gene was very much part of things
because he was the college's solicitor all through this.
Anyway--
>> [inaudible comments]
>> Al Bush: Can I?
Okay. When we, when we first sat down those men were polite
and we began to tell them our tale of woe and why we're
in trouble and so forth and I could just see
that they weren't there because they were interested.
They were just there as a being polite to Roger.
They weren't really interested in what we were talking about.
Well finally, we got to the point of--
we were trying to explain what the college's position was
on a number of things.
And I began to talk about the college's finances.
And it was just a fortunate thing that I'd spent
that time doing some homework because what I laid out for them
and I had facts and figures with me; it wasn't just my memory
and showed that we'd been operating in the black
and had ample reserves that had been built
up despite the construction and everything else
that had been going on, that Breuder had been promoting,
the-- we weren't in any financial trouble.
We didn't want their money.
We were perfectly capable of taking care of ourselves.
Their whole attitude changed.
Just-- it was like a miracle.
They sort of sat up in their seats, began to ask questions
and to make a long story short that was the beginning
of serious discussions.
After that I talked to Bryce and by the way he was a key person.
If he-- if hadn't been present
than I don't think he'd have ever pulled it off
because he was-- he liked new ideas and so forth.
The presidents before him and after him I don't think any
of them would have been receptive but he was.
And so we agreed that each side would created a formal committee
to negotiate an agreement to see if we could work this out.
I was asked to chair the committee on our side
and that senior vice president I mentioned chaired it
on their side.
We spent six months meeting it seemed
like all the time, but it was frequent.
I don't know how many meetings we had, a lot of meetings
because we were plowing the ground.
There wasn't anything like this anywhere.
>> Try to go back to that--
to the first meeting when you went to Top Trees.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> How nervous were you for this?
>> Al Bush: Well, I was nervous that this was our last resort
and I didn't know how serious
or non-serious they were going to be.
I knew we had a lot of bridges to cross, but I also knew
because of chatter and conversations and so forth
that the college's financial position was a very important
part of this.
And so, I was, I was very relieved
when their attitude changed that day,
because I was holding my breath.
If they'd have walked out of that meeting
with the same attitude they came
to the meeting with, we'd have been dead.
I don't know where we'd have gone after that.
>> That brings up a point.
Bob Breuder told us that he remembers you saying before you
first went to Penn State--
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> That if you know the school districts are gone,
the city's gone, and if we don't find a solution
to this we're closing the door--
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> And you really felt that.
>> Al Bush: Yes, because time was running out.
We couldn't keep operating with nothing
and so we were fighting time and trying to find somebody
that could see the same vision we could see.
Well, Bryce Jordan was the guy.
As soon as he saw that the college was being well managed,
by the way, you referenced earlier the importance
of the technological building,
the new one in the health building.
It wasn't the building, but it was the fact
that we were Breuder was driving ahead despite all this problem.
That created a lot of chatter in town, a lot of negative comment
that what in the world are these people-- what are they doing?
Well Bob was so dedicated
to making the college what it's become that a little thing
like sponsorship wasn't going to stand in his way.
And as a result there were a lot--
there was a lot of negative attitude development.
>> Well he referenced when we went to Chicago
and interviewed him about a year and half ago.
He laughs at that today saying that he went
to the County Commissioner's during the first sponsorship.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> Asked them for--
>> I got it.
>> And he asked them at that time for five million dollars.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> At the same time the college might close its doors
and he said people thought he was crazy.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> But that was a smart move on his part.
>> Al Bush: Sure, yeah sure.
And it was-- it wasn't the building
but it was what it represented, that we meant it.
We were-- we wanted this to be a first class institution
with technology as its reason for being.
That's what made it unique, still does.
>> Do you think his knowing that you were moving ahead,
forging ahead, do you think that helped
with Williamsport stepping up to the plate--
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> The temporary spot.
>> Al Bush: Yes, sure.
And the mayor was-- he was open-minded.
It really was an exercise in people, finding people
that had open minds as opposed to those that had closed minds.
And there were a lot of the latter.
Those commissioners were terrible.
>> Mayor [inaudible] he was the mayor at the time.
>> Al Bush: It was-- I think it was John Coder wasn't it.
>> I'm not sure.
>> Al Bush: I'm not sure either.
My memory gets a little fuzzy about things that long ago.
I think it was John.
But anyway--
>> Well that building,
that building you referenced opened up in 87 I believe.
>> Al Bush: Something like that.
>> Now when you walked in there
for the first time, were you blown away?
>> Al Bush: Oh absolutely, absolutely.
There's-- nobody had anything like this and it was going
to give us the resources to do all the technological things
that we had on the plate at that time.
Of course, it's expanded beyond that, but yeah it was--
that was an amazing-- Bob was great at finding money,
you know sources of money.
And he just was, as I said,
he was the right guy at the right time.
If we hadn't had his internal pressure while I was trying
to create some external pressure, it required both.
>> Penn State it's been told to us
and Bob Breuder really admits it, Bob Bowers said it,
one of the best decisions that was made was sending you,
Roger Madigan and Tom Dempsey--
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> To that meeting rather than have somebody directly,
rather than have Bob Breuder.
>> Al Bush: Yes, yes.
It turned out that way.
It was-- I don't know that we were that wise,
but it did turn out that way.
Once we got past that--
their belief that we were in financial trouble
and not only were not in financial trouble,
we were a going concern.
Then we were talking as equals and the discussions from then
on were all constructive.
>> Well we've been told as well from Bob Breuder and Bob Bowers
and Gene Yaw that a key part was--
of that relationship building was
when Penn State came for a tour and--
>> Al Bush: Oh yes.
>> Can you--
>> Al Bush: Yeah, that was one
of the next steps these people went back and reported.
When Bryce came down and saw what we had
and what was going on and so forth.
I mean you couldn't fudge
that when well the evidence was there.
He-- we were so fortunate all the way
through that Bryce Jordan was president
of Penn State at the time.
Because the newness of it and the novelty of it,
this arrangement and so forth he liked that.
Whereas, Spanier when he became President he wanted
to tear it all down immediately.
He wanted-- well that's another story.
I don't know whether you want--
>> Yeah, we'll get to that.
>> Al Bush: Alright.
>> You know during-- going back to the tour, I think that was--
I think that was Bob Bowers or Gene Yaw
who said it was the most well orchestrated event that's ever
occurred on that college's campus.
>> Al Bush: Well, it could have been yes.
>> And they said, they went back and talked about the ATHS,
how that really impressed.
>> Al Bush: Yes, it did.
Well it contained some things, for example,
the robotic manufacturing and so forth.
That was fascinating to anybody because it was--
that was cutting edge activity.
And many things that we were doing and the visible equipment
to work on this kind of thing were there.
To see some of that at work it was fascinating.
We're all grown up kids a little bit.
>> So needless to say when-- during that tour and after,
they left the Williamsport area Community College
very impressed.
Oh yes, no question, no question.
It was just a matter of-- at that point could we hammer
out the details in a way that fit the law
and that everybody would agree to.
I mean we were all on the same page at that point.
>> Did you have to hammer
out the details before you could craft legislation?
>> Al Bush: Yeah, we did.
We had to come to a general agreement about all the details
and then Gene Yaw-- I asked Bob Casey, I said,
"We've got a fine lawyer working for us at the college.
What we need is your best lawyer to work with him
to translate what we agreed to into legislation."
So, he did that.
He signed the top lawyer in his own office
and that fellow whose name I can't remember,
and Gene spent hours and hours
in Harrisburg writing this thing.
And it was unique and it still is.
I don't know-- at the time Penn College was created I don't
think it was anything like it in the country.
And I'm not sure that isn't still true.
>> What makes it so unique?
>> Al Bush: Well, Penn State owns the college now,
but we retained a high degree of autonomy with own board
that could set our own policy.
We didn't have to clear it with them.
Now they-- we set up and this was the topic
of a lot of discussion.
They were able to appoint most of the new board.
But we had the local people represented also
and we had a [inaudible] agreement at the time.
Unfortunately we didn't put this in writing that the chairman
of the board would be local.
When I was asked to step down then Spanier sent one
of his senior people down to be the chairman.
And that-- I was very worried about that
because I knew what Spanier's attitude was about it.
But anyhow, it--
this semi-autonomous nature of the school is--
I don't know of anything like that.
>> Well when you-- when it came time for you
to sponsor the legislation--
>> Al Bush: Um huh.
>> Can you describe what you had to go through?
Was their much opposition?
>> Al Bush: Yeah, that's right.
That's-- it was a war all the way through.
The community college association,
I think there were 12 community colleges at that point.
They were fighting it tooth and nail
because they didn't want us to be different.
They, they saw that as a threat.
Maybe some others would start dropping off.
Well, it turns out they didn't but they didn't have the drive
or the imagination or whatever it took to be different.
But I had a lot of opposition
from the community colleges and--
>> The state system.
>> Al Bush: And some from the state system, yes.
The state system wanted to be our sponsor.
They wanted to take us under their wing
and that was another thing.
I had to be fending them off all the time.
The chancellor at the time, Jim something or other, he had--
I had several sessions with him when he was trying
to persuade me to go their way
and I just wouldn't give him an answer
because I wanted Penn State if we could get them.
And until we had them for sure that was kind
of a delicate dance for a while.
But, the other-- it wasn't unanimous,
but by the time I got all that worked out--
oh, one of the other things that was helpful,
very helpful the Democrats were in control
of the House at that time.
But, the Chairman of the House Education Committee turned
out was a good friend of mine.
And he just couldn't have been more helpful
in getting it all the way through.
Now Allegheny County had a--
I think they had the first community college
after the Act passed.
That was the first one that was created.
Williamsport was the second and they had a good school,
but not like our school.
And so he didn't have any conflict there.
And he just helped all the way through to get it
through committee and I ended
up with I can't remember how many sponsors,
maybe 60 some on the bill.
>> And if the bill passed both--
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> With just one dissenting vote is that--
>> Al Bush: Something like that, yes.
And I never could understand that one.
>> You mentioned many times how important it was
to have Bryce Jordan as president
of Penn State during that time.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> But it was probably equally important
that we had Bob Casey as governor.
>> Al Bush: Oh, absolutely.
It was-- that's the amazing thing to me
and I never can really explain this very well.
That time when I was trying to make up my mind whether
to run again, I really was having an internal fight,
because I did not want to run again.
But every time I'd try to make up my mind
in that direction there was just something inside
that said you've got to run.
There's something you need to do.
And all of these key people I knew and that was an unusual set
of acquaintances because everyone of them had a--
were in a position they could have kicked holes
in what we were doing
at different points in the progress.
>> People in the know say without you
and college never would have happened.
>> Al Bush: Well, I guess it's true.
I know it was very satisfying
when it all came together, but then--
>> Do you remember the day that the legislation passed?
>> Al Bush: Oh yeah, sure, sure.
That was-- well that was the grounding achievement for me.
I got many things done while I was a member, but that was far
and away the most important, because I've said many times
that our school has become perhaps the most important
institution in north central Pennsylvania.
If you think about employing the younger generation,
it is the most important.
And the thing that has made it
that way Breuder I guess was responsible, I'm not sure.
Bob Bower would know this better than I.
But the administration, let me say it that way, when they set
up those committees to work with industries and find
out what their needs were down the road
and then tailored the courses to that that was a touch of genius.
That's the reason so many kids are hired right away.
All education ought to be doing
in that some way, but they don't.
>> You know, actually that goes all the way back to Dr. Parks--
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> Williamsport plan.
>> Al Bush: Absolutely and Kenny Carl and right along through.
>> You got a standing ovation when you came
to the college and announced your--
>> Al Bush: Oh yeah.
>> Resignation.
>> Al Bush: Yeah, it was incredible.
They-- I asked the-- everyone that was free to come
to the auditorium and say goodbye to them
and tell them what I saw in the future
and so forth and it was packed.
I'm often amazed that people still say what you've just said
about you know the time has passed.
There's a lot of new faces and so forth and
yet I guess the old timers are still spreading the word
that I was pretty key to the future of the place.
>> I was at your resignation--
>> Al Bush: Oh were you?
>> [inaudible] Yes.
I remember it very well.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> During your 10 years
as chairman what would you say you enjoyed,
you enjoyed the most?
>> Al Bush: Oh, just the-- I like to create things.
I like to make plans and see them work and so forth.
And being in a position to promote the college
and see it develop it was like watching a child succeed.
I have a very strong feeling toward it, of course.
>> But the campus center named after you--
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> Must give you tremendous pride.
>> Al Bush: Yes, it does.
It certainly does.
It's an unusual sort of thing.
And then they honored me right before I left giving me an
honorary doctorate degree.
I really liked that because I've got a couple of granddaughters
who have now become real doctors
and I had fun telling them we'll they're not the only doctors
in the family.
[laughter] But anyway--
>> [inaudible comments]
>> Al Bush: It was a wonderful, wonderful experience.
As I said, I, I get intense feedback
from creating things and seeing them work.
>> Well you mentioned one
of your last accomplishments was paving the way
for the beautiful entrance way that we enjoy today.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> Can you describe how ugly it was there.
>> Al Bush: Oh my goodness.
>> What you had to go through to secure that?
>> Al Bush: Well, it was about as ugly as anything could be
because that old foundry first of all that was the kind
of business that wasn't very attractive.
And the debris from that process was all around that building
because nothing had happened to it for years.
It had been-- well I guess Brian had rented little pieces
of the building, but the main building hasn't been used
and it was just a big eyesore.
We had to get rid of it and we needed the entrance.
But it, it was-- I won't get into all the details
of the problems I had with him to try to reach an agreement.
But I-- my father taught me one of the most important things,
attributes you can have is perseverance and it's true.
>> It took a couple years to secure it?
>> Al Bush: About that, yeah.
Bob had tried, but he and Brian couldn't get along
with each other at all and he finally just threw up his hands.
I felt sure I was going to have to get
into it, but I didn't want to.
As I said Brian and I both belong to the same hunting club
and you know we're friends
and I knew we were going to have problems.
But I just made up my mind when I started that I was going
to hang with him as long as it took and I eventually got it.
>> And that was an amazing accomplishment that you did
and I understand that Bob Breuder still talks
about all this stuff when they were trying
to excavate that area.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> All the interesting things that were unearthed.
>> Al Bush: Yeah, yeah.
Well it was just like a junkyard.
I don't know what all they had to do
to meet you know the regulations about that sort of thing.
It was, it was plenty.
>> Do you wish people going to Penn College today driving
in there everyday and throughout the whole campus could see what
it looked like, like back in 1981 just
to have more appreciation?
>> Yeah. It probably would be a good think
but I marveled just the other day when we were--
one of my sons was with me when I went up to the store.
And I said I just can't get over remembering what this area was
like when I was going to high school.
It just was a bunch of old manufacturing buildings.
And it's a beautiful campus now, particularly
since the trees have grown and the shrubbery.
I, I was noticing it when I went up for lunch.
Because I'm not there all the time I can see the changes
and it's just gorgeous now with the way-- it's a campus now,
not just a bunch of buildings.
>> That's a great description.
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> And I know you've been separated from the college
or retired from the college during most
of Dr. Gilmour's year--
>> Al Bush: Yeah.
>> But would you like to comment
on her relationship with the college?
>> Al Bush: I think she's done a good job.
And one of the things
that I think has been an immense help is having Bill Martin
at her side.
I, I wish Bill had been able to have at least some period
as president; he'd earned it.
He took on some of the tough jobs
when we were in the growth part.
One time he was supervising I think
about four different structures all at the same time
and he's just a fine guy.
Not that I'm downgrading Davie at all, but it's just too bad
that he didn't have his whole day in the sun.
But he, he didn't chafe at that at all.
He just put his shoulder to the wheel and was an immense help
to her as things developed.
The college has progressed wonderfully well
and I think survived the recession in pretty good shape.
I think that stunted its growth for a little while,
the growth cycle, but that'll come back.
>> Do you expect it to have a strong future?
>> Al Bush: Oh, absolutely.
You know the economy has something to do with that
in many ways, but yeah it has to because
so many people are profiting from his graduates now.
The placement rate there is the answer
to all the questions about it.
It's unheard of for graduates, the percentage of graduates
that get placed in what they've been trained to do.
I've never seen an equal of it anywhere.
And I think that's just phenomenal and I'm laying back
at the door of whoever invented those committees to work
with the various industries
because that way they can tweak their courses, coursework
and make sure that it's going to fit the demand
when kids get out of there.
>> Would you like to go back to school there?
>> Al Bush: Sure.
I would as a matter of fact.
I'm too old now, but yeah I've often thought about that.
I wish I'd have taken a couple courses while I was going along,
but I was always too busy.
>> I do want to ask you
about your political service too you know as we wrap up.
You know, in this day as far as in politics it strikes me
that throughout all your time at the state capitol
that you crossed the aisle.
>> Al Bush: Oh yeah.
>> In bipartisanship.
>> Al Bush: Well, my first 10 years down there that's
when I served in the house leadership.
It was a totally different kind of environment.
We'd argue and have our squabbles on the floor and go
to dinner with each other after in the evening.
They don't do that anymore.
When I went back after that 12 year hiatus it seemed
like a different-- it was a different world,
the attitudes and--
>> Even in the 80s?
>> Al Bush: Yeah, very much so.
That feeling of being in the same boat
and having the same overall interest as far as the welfare
of the commonwealth and so forth was just dissipated.
I'd-- we see it so much now
in Washington it's just all controversial politics.
You wonder if anybody is interested in substance anymore.
And unfortunately, the current president has fostered a lot
of that political conflict and not
that the Republicans are lily white either.
But, that isn't-- you know the people who created our form
of government were absolute geniuses.
How in the world they, they formed a system like they did
because they didn't have a blueprint for that either.
But by disbursing power they created a system
that requires compromise.
That's how it has to work.
And these people it seems
in office anymore have totally forgotten about that.
The tea party, for example,
there was a Broadway show years ago, the title of which was
"I'd Rather be Right than be President."
And that's the way I--
people have gotten to that sort of attitude anymore.
They, they won't compromise.
If you're not going to do it their way,
they're not going to play.
Well that isn't the way it's supposed to work.
You do the best you can and get as much of your philosophy
into things and then work to make laws
that work and improve things.
I don't know; I didn't enjoy the last 10 years I was there
like I had the first 10 years.
I mean I enjoyed this part, the thing we've been talking about.
But it-- the whole atmosphere is just so different.
>> Well thank goodness that you had
that relationship with Bob Casey.
>> Al Bush: Oh yeah, yeah.
And he really, well Bob and I got along so well together.
He, there are many things we disagreed about but that's okay.
That doesn't mean you have to hate each other.
But I'm-- I don't know whether
that day will ever come back again or not.
I worry a lot about our nation.
If we don't get back to an understanding of the need
for compromise, I don't know what we're going to do,
because it isn't going to keep working the way it is.
>> If I have to get rock bottom to get back--
>> Al Bush: Well, it easily could.
I can't do anything about anymore.
>> Well you could run again.
>> Al Bush: Well, yeah sure.
>> Is there I didn't ask that you would want to be brought
out in this oral history interview?
>> Al Bush: Gosh, I don't even remember what all I
talked about.
I don't know.
No, I don't think so.
>> But your love of the institution comes through.
>> Al Bush: Oh yeah.
And by the way, one thing I didn't mention there were a lot
of great people on the inside of our administration, the college
and the faculty and so forth that were immensely helpful
at various stages in the road.
That Bob Bowers is just,
he's [inaudible] They broke the mold when they made Bob.
He was-- he did such a good job.
He was perfect as Breuder's assistant because he could sweep
up after Breuder when Bob--
when Breuder made somebody mad Bob Bowers could take the
sting out.
I have great regard for him and others.
But, this-- there are two things this community is very,
very fortunate to have in a small town like this.
One is our hospital system, the other is the college.
>> Um huh.
>> Al Bush: There aren't many towns this size
that have anything approaching those two.
>> And the state is lucky to have--
>> Al Bush: Oh, you bet, yeah.
But all it was-- I always said it was a labor of love
and I'm just glad it all worked.
>> Thanks to you.
>> Al Bush: Well, with the help of an awful lot of other people.
>> Thank you very much for the time.
>> Al Bush: Oh, I'm glad to be part of it.
I-- I'm honored to be part of it.