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KING: And blockbuster allegations in the upcoming issue of "Rolling Stone" magazine, that the
U.S. military used psychological warfare to influence leading members of Congress to try
to get them to approve more funding for the war in Afghanistan.
That "Rolling Stone" article says DemocraticÊSenator Jack ReedÊof Rhode Island was one of the
targets of the operation. And he joins us now from Capitol Hill.
Senator,Êyou're not only a member of the United StatesÊSenate.ÊYou're a West Point
graduate, a former Army Ranger. You know a little bit about psychological operations.
Were you a target, sir?
REED: I never sensed there was anything unusual last year, in contrast to my other visits
over the last 10 years.
KING: And yet, if you read this article in "Rolling Stone," let me read you a quote from
it, Lieutenant Colonel Michael Holmes says, "My job in psy-ops is to play with people's
heads, to get the enemy to behave the way we want them to behave. I'm prohibited from
doing that to our own people. When you ask me to try to use those skills onÊsenatorsand
congressmen, you're crossing a line."
General Petraeus has asked for an investigation. If the investigation concludes that General
Caldwell did indeed ask that these tactics be employed against members of Congress and
other travelling VIPs for the region, what should the punishment be,ÊSenator?
REED: Well, first of all, I think General Petraeus is absolutely correct in initiating
a very serious investigation. The results of those investigations should determine what
happened. You have to establish if there was a violation of regulations or rules, if the
nature of that violation, we're far from any type of sort of conclusion and also ultimate
sanction.
KING: If you were the president or the secretary of defense, though, and it turns -- the investigation
turns out that General Caldwell did indeed ask this be done, what would you do?
REED: Well, I don't think you can prejudge. You have to look very carefully at what was
done. This is an issue that raises very serious questions. First of all, whether it was appropriate.
Secondly, could it have been done legally according to regulations by someone not involved
in psychological operations? Third, there's the issue that came up in the article of whether
there was any type of retribution towards this psychological warfare officer.
All these are serious issues. They shouldn't be prejudged. They should be investigated
thoroughly. And that point, when the facts are all in hand, the determination should
be made.
KING: What went through your mind when we read this article and you read these allegations?
We're talking aboutÊJack Reed, again, a West Point graduate, a former Army Ranger; John
McCain, who, of course, was tortured by the Vietnamese; others from Congress, Joe Lieberman,
Al Franken, Carl Levin, Congressman Steve Israel -- even Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman
of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is on the list in this article.
What went through your mind when you read it?
REED: Well, my first reaction was, you know, trying to think back over the course of the
multiple trips I've made to Afghanistan. And nothing stuck out unusually.
KING: And you didn't scratch your head at all and say, holy, you know what, you know,
what I actually -- do you think it actually be vulnerable? Do you think they could use
that tactic on you? REED: You know, I think we have all to be very, very careful. That's
why I think you must bring through any of these deliberations a very questioning, skeptical
viewpoint. You know, having spent time as a young officer not in Vietnam, but in a Vietnam
era army, I think -- I understand or at least grew up with the notion that you have to be
questioning. You have to look at the institutional, the organization incentives that people have.
Everyone is an advocate for a certain position.
So, you bring, I hope, a very, very weary and questioning mind to all these deliberations
and you try to supplement, you know, an interview or a briefing by one individual with multiple
different sources so you can compare, contrast and draw a conclusion not based upon, you
know, a session, an intent session or otherwise, but on a whole range of experiences.
KING: You think Congress should look into this or wait until the Army investigation
is done?
REED: Oh, I think we have to wait for the Army to complete its investigation. This has
to be done seriously. It has to be done very, very thoroughly. And it has to be done in
a rather timely way.
This is -- these questions shouldn't be hanging out. There shouldn't be any sort of cloud
hanging over what we hope is and what we assume is a very candid dialogue between military
personnel and the United States Congress. That has to be sort of the basis of the relationship.
KING:ÊSenator Jack ReedÊof Rhode Island -- appreciate your time today.
REED: Thanks, John.