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joining me is michael brooks is producer of the majority report would sam cedar
also a freelance writer he has a new article in alternet call written with
the like lift in what the john brennan hearings didn't tell you aircraft
carrier based drones could expand covert war around the world so michael tell us
a little bit about what that means we have this news which was uh... i i guess
in the last
ten days or so it broke about
drones being launched off of aircraft carriers uh... and and how that could
potentially change why how drugs are being used how could it more broadly
speaking change the entire picture
what consumers you some pictures and words uh... drones on aircraft carriers
actually uh... you know that this past november
ryan what they could do is when you
when the technology developed and this is still a lot and processed this isn't
completed yet
where drones could uh... fly off aircraft carriers such as the adds
another layer of flexibility to the program essentially
so right now it's a operate drones we still need to uh... established base
ingredients arms
you know most controversial eastern shockingly recently actually was the
disclosure that
we have a drone basin
uh... saudi arabia
uh... we're also establishing a drone bases in northern africa i'll add at the
carnival layer of alm
in some ways geopolitical accountability but also uh... instability there it's a
certain sort of chuck on this program with the aircraft carriers that ads
uh... even additional layer of flexibility
uh... in terms of how we operate these uh... these drone side and kind of hot
spots around the world so it's a potential
our game changer in that sense
to play devil's advocate a little bit could not be argued that
if you're launching drones from
whatever kind of a base in whatever country it is saudi arabia whatever it
is
that there is that there is at least at the very minimum
implicit agreement with that would uh... that drone program from the host country
and therefore
the the blame over criticism for strikes lunch from there
could at least b
somewhat
i signed to two parties the u_s_ and that host country whereas if you're
coming off of the aircraft carrier
does it in a sense not make it a little bit cleaner in that they're are no other
parties to point the finger at
well i tried a minute and that's the question is how clean do we want to make
it right
so i mean one of the aspects of the drug program that is
indisputable so far is that certainly a lot of countries like
uh... yet men
uh... and parking spot and i think it's change more easily barbie star and i
think that the government of pakistan is more adj disordered genuinely opposed to
these strikes but a lot of host governments of neither
founded pleasantly or pretty directly uh... supported this program and use of
this technology pretty aggressively trying you're right it i think that if
we if we moved to an aircraft carrier based model
what you might see if you might see even greater flexibility in the executive
branch to uh... use these things and potentially even less oversight and you
also uh... lose the where you're talking about which is some type of reciprocity
uh...
it as regards with compressed is basing remit so as an example arms
a new year's ambassador
at the united states recently told c_n_n_ that you know that his country
because in some drums but they'll be used for surveillance purposes and i was
the kind of condition that they were putting on them
we moved aircraft carriers
could potentially take away
um...
uh... even more kind barriers to the program and that has its upside in its
downsides but it needed will you know certainly advt
take away from the way you're talking about
teachers a shared responsibility we've been supercritical of the drum program
on a number of different fronts on the show for a while now and i've gotten
some pushback from progressives on two fronts about this
one front is
you know for all the criticisms that
progresses have about the drone strikes their their criticisms would be
identical if it were a republican in office who is expanding the drum program
but
republicans are only being critical now because it's yet another thing they can
criticize obama for and they wouldn't be criticizing bromley potentially for that
inouye oc isn't this becoming
i wanna say help but isn't this somehow
yuling
the republican agenda in the sense that you've got something that opa mistaking
he dont from both sides that he otherwise that another president
wouldn't
well right i mean i think we need to the saturday a couple of issues here and i
think first uh...
you know that some of the crystals that obama receives from progresses is arm
it's heartening and it's important because there are certain issues that
look
regardless of who's executing it if you have a values that you have a strategic
view
of how the world should work in what they use a policy should be
at any president is contradicting and it doesn't matter who the president is that
i think i agree with you on that the issue is
we we have that on our side but the republicans don't they just took me a
critical for political reasons
that's absolutely right the republicans though and i think the republicans don't
have credibility on this issue so i think obviously when
um... you know someone like joe scarborough other guys just kind of use
it as a conjul
to say
well isn't the obama administration being hypocritical are democrats being
hypocritical
and that's also just not the main issue here the main issue here is actual
policies still in progress is going to criticizing some of the consequences of
the actual policy
that's very distinct from
getting in some kind of process the bay about comparing the bush in the obama
administrations and frankly what i think
you can still make a strong case more broadly in some respects to the overall
a foreign policy
uh... and there are successes in there have been restraints in other areas that
are really legitimate and important to highlight and
that said you know i don't even think the fundamental issue in some respects
is that
technology drones per se
it's how they're being used how they're being relied on
ideas he meant *** argument against that there's also strategic argument
against that because what you see ms
eat they've decapitated allot current traditional conventional al-qaeda
that's a success and there's been these
release admitting humanitarian or consequences along with that
then there's the legal consequences of things like ill listen the power of the
executive branch in in the third component which
you might potentially see evidence couple years erasing in places like
molly
al-qaeda sort of decentralizing in the past the sizing
uh... and potentially getting more resilient because fundamentally just
like obama said *** critique
you don't get to the underlying causes of these issues
you're not really fundamentally gonna solve them and drones are
almost too convenient to politically is but tactically appealing
president lies you sort of get away from other that were sort of long-term
structural things that need
to be addressed and i think you know progressives
realists anybody with a serious interest in foreign policy needs to
articulating be serious about as i think you would demand ising obama or anything
like that well you just last night he touched a little bit on humanitarian and
strategic
which is kind of in a limited time we have left what i want to talk about
which is the other progressive pushback i've gotten which is
my criticism seems to be
reined in uh... under the umbrella that if we weren't doing the drum strikes
we would be doing nothing
and that is just its debts fantasy land in other words pragmatically speaking
what we would be doing without the drones would lead to even more civilian
casualties
so is this if you know act i'd feel a little weird saying it's leading to less
civilian casualties then the other plans would it just doesn't feel right but
progress is their increasingly sending messages to me like that
well the trouble is that that though that this is where see again we have to
decide or gate
the technology
in another itself and and i think that right there is no type of proof that
drones cause more civilian casualties and other types of warfare
when you start talking about something like a signature strike and signature
strikes air strikes that are based off of
behavioral predictability about people who aren't known so
europe office tiny uh... need male between twenty and thirty in your in a
certain area
we're gonna hit you assume you're guilty
when you start doing strikes like that and also double taps which is another
uh... aspect the drug program which means that whenever those yeah
you have one other thing here is been kit
you come back up a lowers later
and you get the same area which means that
uh... merge issue response vehicles and people like that don't want to go in
and kind of rescue people take people out as they know in other words coming
those things by definition
are gonna get us away from really understanding
what types filling casualties were even talking about
so that's a really hard to be have because went by when you get into by
definition
uh... we don't exactly know
what's what is life
uh... then bennett's it's problematic didn't have that debate and that's
another aspect about this program there's some level of disclosure and
understanding is that happened in order for any of us whether we're defending
your criticizing it
to have a national debate about it
that we didn't get everything but there will be plenty more opportunities to
talk about the drum program in all of its associated uh... issues in questions
michael brooks producer of the majority report with sincere
check out his code written article with you i clicked on alternet
about the uh... uh... aircraft carrier based drone expansion to the drawn more
michael thanks as always
bakery talking here about the soup