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Eric: Welcome to Tap Your App. I'm your host, Eric ***, co-founder of Tap
for Tap, the free cross-promotion exchange for mobile application
developers. Today we're here with a very special guest, Chelsea Tharck from
Apptopia. She is a Marketing Strategist of this interesting company who's
mission it is to sort of connect app sellers and app buyers. Apptopia is
the marketplace for mobile app acquisitions. I'd like to welcome you to the
program today. Chelsea, how are you doing?
Chelsea: Thank you. I'm great. How are you?
Eric: Good, good. So you guys, are you guys based in San Francisco?
Chelsea: No, we're actually based in Cambridge, Massachusetts, right in
Boston at a place called Dog Patch Labs which is a huge, just a floor of a
bunch of start-ups. So, it's a good community here.
Eric: It Dog Patch Labs at an incubator, or is it just sort of a workspace?
Chelsea: Well, we actually, it's a workplace owned by Polaris Ventures but
we're on the same floor as Tech Stars, which is the incubator.
Eric: Cool. Is there any talent sharing that goes on in environments like
that? Are you sort of collaborative or is it more silo-ed?
Chelsea: I mean, everyone connects and helps each other out, so, yeah.
Eric: I'm from Cambridge, Ontario, which is not a place, I don't think, too
much like Cambridge, Massachusetts. I don't think you'd have many reasons,
unless you really wanted to visit some textile mills, there's some really
great textile mills in Cambridge, Ontario. Very cool. Well tell me a little
bit about Apptopia.
Chelsea: Right. So Apptopia is an online marketplace for buying and selling
mobile app ownership and we pretty much connect buyers and sellers who are
either interested in selling their app or acquiring one for whatever reason
it may be, we help them not only meet but we help them through the entire
transfer process so that the new app is transferred to the new developer's
account and we also help them with app valuations and anything they need
along the way.
Eric: Interesting. I work in an office where there has been, where my
partner has actually purchased apps before and I know it can be a bit of a
complicated procedure, not only through, you know, getting app ownership
switched over, but then, like, all of the accounts even that might maybe
sort of attach to an app in terms of its monetization, and just making sure
that all the loose ends are tied up. I can see where a service like yours
would come in handy.
Chelsea: Exactly, exactly. That's, and even just today we had someone
selling an app and their friend bought the app from them and they're very
close but they still did it through our site because, you know, they trust
in our services and they want that help along the way. Sorry.
Eric: No, that's OK.
Chelsea: That's a community around here.
Eric: Yeah, no great. That, it feels very start-upy. So, speaking of start-
ups, when did you guys start?
Chelsea: So, our founders of our company are Jonathan Kay and Ellie Supier,
and they met and started getting, started working on the company in
November, December 2011, but our site actually launched in mid-April. So,
that's when things really got started and got off the ground. I know you
mentioned that you guys had the same kind of dynamic when you got started.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So how many apps have your guys sold,
approximately?
Chelsea: Wow. So we've sold about 80 apps now, which has been pretty good
and pretty good for the development community. We put over $200,000 back
into the hands of developers from those sales. So, that's what we're proud
of.
Eric: Yeah. That's really impressive. And currently you probably have many
more than that up for auction on your site?
Chelsea: Yeah. We have about 430 or so right now, and those numbers are
climbing daily.
Eric: And that's across all verticals?
Chelsea: Yeah.
Eric: Interesting. So tell me a little bit about, first of all, tell me
about your role at Apptopia.
Chelsea: All right, so I'm the first marketing person here. Right now kind
of everyone does a lot of different aspects of the company, but right now
our main focus is getting us out to events, getting our name out there,
getting us in press. Also just interacting with buyers and sellers online
via social, and I'm also working on a lot of content for the website right
now. So that people have better understanding of not only Apptopia but just
mobile apps in general and valuations and acquisition data because there's
not a lot out there right now on these types of subjects.
Eric: Yeah, it's definitely sort of a new industry. It's always changing.
So maybe you should consider hosting a podcast. It's a good way to get
people to talk to you.
Chelsea: Yeah. No, this is cool.
Eric: Nice. So give me an idea, what are some hallmarks? You know, we have
thousands of developers on Tap for Tap, across every vertical, every sort
of category of app. I'm sure there's all sorts of hallmarks for every
category, but what are some sort of overall, like, really strong qualities
for apps that really help their valuation?
Chelsea: Right, so things, when we look at valuations we base it on about
42 basis points right now, and the main ones being of course, the most
important based on a ton of statistics, is design. When you first open the
app or look at the app's icon, it's really important that it has good
design, and then other things we go off of is obviously traction, ratings
and reviews, total installs. Buut not so much that because we look at even
more so into active users. Because, you know, you want to see how many
people are actually using the app at that time.
Eric: Stickiness.
Chelsea: Yeah, exactly, and those are the main ones we look for right now.
Eric: Interesting. So there was something I pulled up from your website
that was just, you talk about a shift in how people view apps. Can we talk
about that a little bit?
Chelsea: Right. So you had mentioned that before. What we want people to
understand is that app acquisitions are a very real way for app developers
to either exit the market, or monetize out their app; because there are so
many strategies out there that people use for marketing, like Tap for Tap's
a great one. But another option because so many developers aren't making
money off their apps, is to have it acquired by someone who can use these
tools better than them or maybe wants to promote the app in a better way,
kind of, filter out the market like that. So we just want people to know
this is a realistic option. It's not just apps or companies like Instagram
or Social Cam. It's realistic on any scale.
Eric: That's a really good point actually. You know, a lot of developers,
all of their sort of creative energy can often go into the creation of
their app. Maybe there's marketers out there that could take their product
that they worked really *** and put a lot more creative energy for
marketing.
Chelsea: Yeah it is a great point and it's [inaudible 00:08:05] people who
are trying to get into mobile. So these people who don't have the technical
skills can take the app, and then know what to do with it after that.
Eric: Yeah, or even just take the guts of the app and then re-skin it with
their brand or whatever they choose to do.
Chelsea: Yeah, exactly.
Eric: Very cool. So just a question off the top of my head here. We're
working with lots of different clients that build apps off of non-native
platforms.
Chelsea: Right.
Eric: So if they're building their apps in Unity or in Corona or Game
Salad, does that at all affect the valuation of the app?
Chelsea: Right. So I've noticed the same trend, actually. That's a good
point. We have a ton of people buying and selling apps and Unity 3D is the
big one I've noticed. For us, we totally support those platforms. The only
thing that we don't support is apps built in things like Game Salad that
are more visually-based, drag and drop types. Because for those types of
tools you need an account and like you said before, it gets kind of mixed
up with the transfer process. Because in our transfer process you need to
physically hand over a zip file with the code and with some of those tools
you don't, you're not provided with the code because they send it straight
to the app store for you. But we definitely support the cross-platform
tools that aren't solely based visually.
Eric: Gotcha. So you mentioned 40 points, the 40 points are sort of how you
arrive at your app valuations, and I assume that they're weighed in
different ways, potentially. An app's marketing plan, is that something
that's important?
Chelsea: That's a good point. I mean, I think the app's marketing plan, the
stats that we look at are a reflection of the app's marketing plan. So if
someone has a good strategy in place, then that will show up within the
amount of traction they're getting and the amount of feedback from users.
Eric: Interesting. This app space is such an interesting one. You mentioned
in our little pre-talk that you worked at Apptopia for what is it, two
Chelsea: Yeah, two months now.
Eric: But you come off like a total app veteran. So two months in mobile
apps is maybe like two and a half years or something in mobile apps years.
Chelsea: Yeah. Well, we try to learn as much as we can on mobile in
general, and apps and everything.
Eric: Nice. So you've given back $200,000 to the developer community.
That's a fantastic statistic.
Chelsea: Yeah.
Eric: Which app fetched the highest price of that $200,000?
Chelsea: Right. So our highest individual app that sold has been for
$11,000 and it was an Android Slots App. It's funny because based on some
of the statistics we've had, we've had a lot more iOS apps sell than
Android apps, but the average selling price for Android apps is actually
higher than for iOS which I feel like you wouldn't think.
Eric: Yeah. That is sort of interesting. What, can you tell me what the
average price is for both?
Chelsea: I actually don't have specific stats on those right now, because
it changes every day with how it's going. But right now in general our
average price is around $7,000 or $7,500 which might be dropping because
we've had apps flying off market at the $1,000, $750 level which is great
because it means that people are actually buying in general, yeah.
Eric: Yeah. So how are you drumming up support for both the buying and the
selling side? How are you, in your job, as someone who's job it is to get
the market out there, is it just a matter of getting the Apptopia brand out
there and drawing people to it, or are you sort of actively searching out
sellers and buyers?
Chelsea: Well, we do a little bit of both. I mean, we like to connect with
developers in general, not only to learn more but to tell them about our
tools. So we like to connect on the forums and things like that. We'll
reach out individually sometimes, and people reach out to us. But we also
are targeting bigger companies too. We have some bigger buyers like the
Game Show Network and so with those types of brands we're trying to get our
name out in news publications that they would read, things like that.
Eric: Nice. So this is a question that we get at Tap for Tap all the time,
but forgive me if it's forward, but what's your cut in the-
Chelsea: [inaudible 00:12:50] We get, we make 15% off of any successful
acquisition. So it's free to list your app, but that comes out of what the
seller would receive from the price.
Eric: OK. That's a really good point that it's free to list your app. So
for all of our developers out there if they're looking for an exit strategy
to definitely consider this one. What was I, I did have another question
here that just left my brain. Well, tell me about your favorite app.
Chelsea: Right. So I'm really into astrology apps actually, because I'm
into astrology in general. So I would say a few of my favorite apps are
Astrolome is one.
Eric: Clever.
Chelsea: I don't know if anyone's ever heard of Moon It. It's a social
networking app based on astrological compatibility which is cool. I also
like this one from Susan Miller called Astrology Zone which is $4.99, but
it's worth it.
Eric: Interesting. Now really forgive me for being forward but what's your
sign?
Chelsea: I'm an Aquarius. I could talk about this all day. Don't get me
started.
Eric: I'm a Capricorn but I've been told, I think I'm on the cusp, so I've
been told I'm sort of more Sagittarius than Capricorn.
Chelsea: OK. See, I'm a Capricorn-Aquarius cusp, but that's good. It means
you're very career-oriented.
Eric: Right now definitely. No doubt about it.
Chelsea: Exactly.
Eric: Very interesting. So just letting it flow here. This might get cut
out later but I, if you're interested in astrology does it relate to any
fears related to the upcoming big date? December 21, 2012?
Chelsea: Oh yeah, it actually does. No, my favorite astrologer that I just
mentioned is Miller. She talks all about that on her website and on the
app.
Eric: So trying to get your career under your belt in case, like, before
then just in case.
Chelsea: Exactly, exactly.
Eric: Nice. That's pretty interesting. Well, I hope there's room for us to
sort of work together in the future.
Chelsea: Yeah, definitely.
Eric: You know, for developers on your service, hopefully Tap for Tap can
become a viable option to help promote and raise their valuation.
Chelsea: And we love to provide developers tools to help monetize once they
acquire an app and they're not sure what to do with it. so I think there's
definitely room for us to work together.
Eric: Nice. One last thing too, I noticed that Mark Cuban sort of famously
invested in your company recently.
Chelsea: Yeah.
Eric: Has that changed anything over there? Do your owners have slightly
bigger heads or do they just have Dallas Maverick fans instead of Celtic
fans?
Chelsea: No, they're pretty grounded, but yeah, he's been an active
investor, giving us lots of advice, so it's been a lot of help to raise a
lot of hype around our brand.
Eric: Yeah, definitely, just the publicity you get being attached to
someone like that I'm sure has been a big deal.
Chelsea: Yeah.
Eric: Nice. Well I wish you guys all the best of the luck in the future.
Chelsea: Thank you.
Eric: And to all of our developers out there, make sure you check out
Apptopia. Remember that it is free to list your app with them, and remember
that they've given $200,000 back to the developer community. Thanks for
being on the show today Chelsea. I look forward to working with you in the
future.
Chelsea: All right, great. Bye Eric.