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TERRY AVRIL as JOHN BROWN: You remember and celebrate violence in this very museum (National Museum of American History)
You say to your fellows and your children: “Let us learn and consecrate
this violence.”
But for the *** and his emancipation, you say:
“No, only peaceful means;
violence is only justified in times of war-
We are talking of a time of war!
When the *** slave takes up arms to fight for his rights, his humanity
– even his very life – against an institution,
and another body takes up arms to deny him this,
he is at war.
Vengeance belongs to God.
For his vengeance I would slay,
not for my own.
This guy was of a different ilk.
He was something we don’t see too many of today. He was considered
insane, because who would have believed that a black person was equal to a white?
SUSAN EVANS: I always learned that John Brown was crazy. He was like –
he was a side story in our history textbooks. BRIAN TAYLOR: They’ll say John Brown was crazy, and that’s the end of it.
And you know, they’ll say he was a fanatic and therefore we shouldn’t consider
what he did. Just take John Brown seriously.
JULIA IMBRIACO: He had his conventions. He believed strongly in them.
He knew the meaning of sacrifice.
S. XAVIER CARNEGIE: Coming to grips with this guy
is a big responsibility for us -
especially when you consider that if I have a problem with what John Brown did,
in some strange way, I’m saying that I might have a problem
with what our founding fathers did.
SUSAN EVANS: The Time Trial Series
is our way of getting people thinking about what—
how they know what they know about history.
So, we present a controversial figure in American History; we did Benedict Arnold
for the first one-- now John Brown. We will have people thinking about
what it means to fight against slavery,
why the Civil War started in the first place, what John Brown’s role was
in starting the Civil War, and how the idea of John Brown’s legacy has changed over time.
S. XAVIER CARNEGIE: The way I got even introduced to the name of “John Brown”
is my mother used it as a substitute
for curse words because she didn’t curse.
So instead of saying,
you know, “Would you go and pick up your ‘blank-blank’ clothes,” she’d say: “Go pick up your John Brown clothes.”
And for me, that was just-that was what “John Brown” was.
Later on, when I learned that he was an actual person - you know, where this expression came from-
I said “huh?” I wonder what this guy did.
TERRY AVRIL: John Brown was an abolitionist who,
unlike many abolitionists,
decided to use violence in the late 1850s.
He began to realize that violence was the only way to respond
to the legislation that was allowing more slavery, not less slavery, in the United States.
S. XAVIER CARNEGIE: I had realized I barely scratched the surface on who this guy was. This guy was so central
to just about every major occurrence,
every major figure during the Civil War. So, once I figured that out, I said,
“OK, I think we have something here with his character. This could be something really, really good for our visitors to come in and see and talk about.”
TERRY AVRIL: The best instances are when
somebody in the front row
hears something in the back row and they have to turn. And they are literally
trying to convey their ideas to somebody they disagree with in the back.
There has been some very, very interesting back-and-forth, and that’s the point
to get the audience so…
so thinking through this process, having heard some of the things that I brought about,
and then in their own lives to take it personally
as to what they would do,
and has history been right with regard to this man?
SUSAN EVANS: People will say lots of things. People come with a lot of different background information;
some people know a lot
about John Brown – we’re expecting some people don’t even know who he is. Part of the role
of the arbiter is to put everyone on the same level. So, they’re going to give enough information that
everyone can have a discussion about John Brown, and then move from there.
JULIA IMBRIACO: I’m going to be supporting the program as “arbiter,”
which means that
obviously Terry [Avril] is going to playing the part of John Brown,
and it’s going to be difficult at times for the audience to really know how
to interact with him, so the arbiter’s role is to sort of help negotiate that.
BRIAN TAYLOR: When John Brown gets questions that—
it’s helpful to have some more info than he has, then I’m there.
JULIA IMBRIACO: We can help interpret their questions and redirect them
in ways that John Brown will be able to answer,
and just also help guide the discussion during the Time Trial.
S. XAVIER CARNEGIE: What we really want people to do is get people thinking and get them talking.
BRIAN TAYLOR: We’re not necessarily trying to change people’s minds as much as introduce
that there are different viewpoints that are equally valid to the one you may hold.
SUSAN EVANS: We are not suggesting that everyone turn to violence –
or anyone turn to violence,
and in fact, that’s something we’ve had to really wrestle with -
we don’t want to make John Brown out to be a hero at all, but he really is a contested figure,
and we think that people should know…
more about him – history is complicated – and you can’t ignore the complications of history.
JULIA IMBRIACO: I think that some of our biggest successes just come from the questions that we don’t necessarily answer -
to hear an audience member after they leave a Time Trial Program say:
“Wow, that was really neat. I can’t wait to go home and learn more about John Brown on my own.”
I think that could be the most rewarding aspect of this program.
And, beyond that, just to realize that there is a huge difference, at times, between historical fact
and the way those events are remembered;
acknowledging and respecting that discrepancy is, I think, really key to really having a firm understanding of our nation’s history.
TERRY AVRIL as JOHN BROWN: I pity the poor in bondage that have none to help him.
A slaveowner may capture [or] kill a ***, slave or free, without reason or due process, and legally.
This is the government to which you entrust the power of violence.