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So there was no moment where you suddenly thought,
'Crikey, I was pretty good in a UK context
and now I've got to start all over again
trying to establish myself in a global context.'
I was quite fortunate actually.
I went to the Prix de Lausanne in 1980,
which is an international competition for young dancers, still exists,
and actually won.
So felt pretty proud of myself at that point
because the world wasn't there but there were 140 entrants
and I won one of five prizes.
So there wasn't a point when I thought
they're doing it better in Spain.
That did happen later
when the Spanish turned up with their amazing pirouettes
and the Russians came across with their amazing high legs
and you sort of think bit too late for me to achieve that,
I'm a bit set in my ways now.
But I think that also coincided with a growing awareness
which you get as you get older that it's not only about the body,
it's not only about technique,
it's about storytelling, it's about artistry.
And that comes with maturity.
Is there any parallel in your world where at a certain point
Britain lost its cringe or sense that New York was the centre of ballet
and suddenly became confident?
Well, this country has always had
quite an unusual place at the centre of ballet
which is surprising given the gene pool and the population.
We had a very limited number of people compared to Russia,
compared to America,
but had a dominance, not a pre-eminent position
but amongst the countries of the world
we've always been up amongst the top five.
And that's rather surprising given the short history of ballet
in this country.
There was no ballet in this country before the early 1900s,
give or take, there'll be somebody who'll correct me,
but by and large there was no real ballet in this country.
It was Dame Ninette de Valois who imagined that could happen
and made it happen.
So very short history, a very limited pool of people and genes
and we've had this extraordinary high place.
So I think for us actually the challenge is coming up now
where we're having to say
other countries are now producing really good dancers,
are we still doing it?
So I think the challenge has sort of been the other way.
Where we are very strong,
and I think a lot of this is due to the way the arts are funded,
is in the creativity of the dance sector.
And I mean the sector as a whole, not just ballet.
But we have an extraordinary level of creativity within dance,
much more than America where things are very much driven by and large
by sponsors and the need to satisfy corporate stakeholders.
And we don't have that
and I think that's kept the sector very creative and very brave.
We've only just come back from Cuba.
I was in Cuba three years ago for the British Council
and visited the ballet schools.
And I was knocked sideways
by not just the quality and investment in them
which is pretty significant,
but by this extraordinary combination of discipline and joy.
I've never been anywhere in the world
where I felt that here were 100 young people
who were both the most disciplined kids you would ever see at every age
and yet clearly loving it.
I remember my wife saying when they were being taught
that they looked at their teachers with a mixture of awe and wonder.
They absolutely just stared at the teachers
in this fantastic sense of adoration. It was amazing.
Do you think a place like Cuba that takes ballet as seriously as it does,
where does that take us? Is that an example of what's to come?
Is that an example that we should be looking to emulate?
I think what you've got in Cuba is dance is a route out of poverty.
A potential route out of poverty.
We don't have that in this country and you could say that's great.
Some people would say that stops young dance students being hungry.
There's a hunger in countries like Cuba which you don't have here.
They would say to us that we're all a bit safe
and we're not that eager to really win.
I'm not involved in the school so I don't know if that's true.
What I tend to find with those countries
s because of the system there is quite often a lack of outlets
for those dancers other than in the classical repertoire.
So you've got sort of creative blinkers on.
Russia is a good example of that.
They still produce some of the finest dancers in the world
but what they do with those dancers is a bit boring and hackneyed
and not very creative.
Which is why so many dancers want to come to England
to have the opportunities to work with great choreographers
and to work with new ideas.
So what we're finding is a lot of fantastic dancers on the market
who are looking for creative opportunities.
And that makes it more difficult for dancers in this country.