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Everyone was stunned a few days ago when Attorney General Eric Holder intervened in gay couple's
deportation case. The government was about to deport Paul Wilson Dorman, but at the last
minute Holder told Board of Immigration Appeals to take a closer look at the case.
That's made the complicated rules about separating bi-national LGBTs even more complicated. So
we're going to talk to Lavi Solloway, the lawyer for another bi-national couple facing
deportation. Henry Velandia and Josh Vandiver had an deportation hearing just one day after
Holder's decision, but that decision changed everything. Lavi's going to take us inside
the court and tell us exactly what happened.
MATT: So, we're talking to Lavi Solloway. Lavi's the founder of Stop the Deportations
and Immigration Equality, and he represents Josh Vandiver and Henry Velandia. So, Lavi,
let's talk about what happened at the end of last week. A lot changed very quickly.
What exactly did Attorney General Eric Holder do on Thursday?
LAVI: Well, we learned on Thursday that the Attorney General intervened in a case involving
a gay couple that had entered into a civil union in the state of New Jersey, and had
applied for a certain kind of relief from deportation or removal known as "Cancellation
of Removal." And that's a specific form of legal status. It's a specific process for
individuals who are facing deportation but have been in the United States for ten years
or more, and whose deportation would cause exceptional and extremely unusual hardship
to their -- usually to their spouse or to their child.
In this case, the couple seems to have argued that their civil union should count as a marriage,
and therefore the American partner in the civil union should be considered for the hardship
that it would cause to him if the foreign partner was in fact deported.
That case actually was brought in early 2009 in a New Jersey immigration court. It was
denied. They then appealed to the Board of Immigration Appeals. It was denied. And they
appealed that to the Third Circuit.
And the Attorney General, what he specifically did is that he vacated, or set aside, the
decision made by the Board of Immigration Appeals. And he seemed dissatisfied with their
decision, and directed them to answer specific questions and therefore to decide the case
again.
MATT: So, something that I'm hearing from our opponents is that, in essence, in this
decision, he's not enforcing DOMA, and he's trying to sabotage DOMA, and he's trying to
act as though DOMA doesn't exist. Is that accurate or is that a misreading of what he
decided?
LAVI: Well, let me say first, it's not surprising that we would hear these kinds of misleading
statements from folks on the right. They're obviously looking for any opportunity to suggest
that the administration is not enforcing the law. It couldn't be farther from the truth.
This action to set aside a decision of the Board of Immigration Appeals does not suggest
in any way the outcome that the Attorney General is looking for. He's simply asking the Board
of Immigration Appeals to create a better record and to address certain issues. It does
not imply that he knows the answers to those questions or that the board of Immigration
Appeals knows the answers to those questions, and they're all going to end up going to the
Third Circuit Court of Appeals, where I suppose ironically for the folks on the right, the
Speaker of the House will most likely end up defending the defense of Marriage Act in
that appeal.
No, this is not an end run around DOMA as Family Research Council has said. What this
is precisely is the Attorney General looking at the facts in this case. It doesn't involve
a marriage. It involves a civil union. And what he's trying to do is determine whether
or not there are issues that relate to the constitutionality of DOMA that arise in a
case where a couple is claiming a right to benefit on the basis of their civil union.
And he wants the Board of Immigration Appeals to consider whether or not a partner in a
civil union in a state like New Jersey, where civil unions are the virtual equivalent of
marriage, whether that partner could be considered a spouse. And what does DOMA have to say about
that. So this is absolutely not a question of not enforcing DOMA, this is the Attorney
General's job as the head of the Department of Justice -- the Board of Immigration of
Appeals is a part of the Department of Justice. This is about preparing the record for an
eventual appeal at the Third Circuit Court of Appeals.
MATT: And so now Henry and Josh had a hearing on Friday. And their circumstances are a little
bit different because they have a marriage instead of a civil union. What exactly happened
when you went into the Federal Building on Friday, and was it what you were expecting
or were you surprised?
LAVI: Well, let me say first that in the weeks leading up to Friday's hearing, we were certainly
hopeful that the immigration and customs enforcement prosecuting attorney would try to forge some
kind of compromise that would postpone the proceedings. And we weren't successful. We
asked the government to consider terminating the proceedings, or at the very least postponing
them, and we were turned down. Our argument was that since Josh's marriage-based petition
for Henry was still pending and hadn't been denied, that the most appropriate thing would
be to allow the immigration service to do its job to process that petition. And if it
ultimately deemed it appropriate to deny it, then we would know that. But that we shouldn't
proceed until that happened.
And then we went into court on Friday, really it was a cliffhanger. We had no expectation
at that point that the government would have changed their position. And we also hadn't
heard anything positive from the judge. We actually asked the judge as well to adjourn
the case, and prior to Friday the judge had not agreed to adjourn the case. Though when
we got to the court on Friday, it was clear that both the judge and the government attorney
had a change of heart. And the judge indicated to the government attorney that he had decided
that it was appropriate to adjourn the case because Josh and Henry had a pending marriage-based
petition, and it also brought it to the attention of the government potential implications of
the attorney general's decision with respect to the other couple. In the sense that we
don't really know what the outcome of that case will be, whether it will bear on Josh
and Henry's case, and so given all of that it was appropriate then to adjourn. And the
government agreed. The government agreed that it was appropriate to adjourn.
And Josh and Henry are now to return to court in December.
MATT: So, what is their life going to look like from now until December? Are they just
going to be waiting around, or are they still going to be very busy?
LAVI: Well, certainly there's an emotional component to this process and they walked
out of court on Friday breathing a huge sigh of relief. But their relief is going to be
short-lived because clearly come December 16th, they still have to face a judge and
still have to deal with this constant problem of deportation. But between now and then,
they will continue to do the advocacy work that they've been doing, and continue to urge
the administration to halt the deportations of all spouses of gay and lesbian Americans.
And try to expand the growing coalition of organizations that they've really brought
into being with their incredible determination and their persistence, telling their story
and getting out there and putting a face on this issue. So they're going to continue to
do that. They have several months to bring about some real meaningful change, and meaningful
change for binational couples facing deportation would be a moratorium.
MATT: You mentioned that they were going to be doing a lot of advocacy work. What sort
of form does that take?
LAVI: Well, the most important thing right now is to really try to broaden the support
for a moratorium beyond the sixty-odd members of the House and Senate who have written to
Napolitano to try to increase that number. Individuals who live in districts where their
Representatives or Senators have not called on the administration yet to implement interim
remedies to protect binational couples should certainly do so. All binational couples should
be out their telling their stories to elected officials. We need not only legislative solutions
in the form of repeal of DOMA and passing Uniting American Families Act, but we also
need immediate solutions to make sure that the Henries of the world are not deported
while we're working on on long-term solutions. So it'll be focusing on putting more pressure
on the administration, directing that to Secretary Napolitano who ultimately has the authority
to determine how the resources of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement are deployed.
Today the President made a speech on the importance of comprehensive immigration reform that emphasizes
the priority of this administration to deport convicted felons and those who put our safety
in jeopardy, or security in jeopardy. And secondly he emphasized that it is important
that our laws keep families together. And so this President clearly is in alignment
with our goals and we need those words to be followed by action. So Josh and Henry will
be working with the other binational couples who are facing deportation over the next few
months to raise the profile of this issue, both for the White House and for the Department
of Homeland Security to try to achieve a concrete solution.
MATT: So if people want to learn more or help out, where should they go?
LAVI: Well, the first place to go would be StopTheDeportations.com. We're really inviting
binational couples to tell their stories and to join us in our efforts to organize. There
are other wonderful organizations out there that are doing really important work. GetEQUAL
helped us tremendously organize a rally to protest Henry's deportation outside of the
courthouse on Friday. Out For Immigration and Immigration Equality have been working
for years on the legislative aspects of this and have also turned to the issue of the deportations.
So to get involved you can certainly contact us at StopTheDeportations@gmail.com and we
would be happy to direct you to whichever organization or to help you tell your story.
MATT: Okay, great, well Lavi Solloway is the founder of Immigration Equality and Stop the
Deportations, and he represents Josh Vandiver and Henry Velandia. Lavi, thank you so much
for joining us and explaining this complicated and fast-moving issue.
LAVI: My pleasure, Matt.