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♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
>>> I'M SAM ROBERTS, "THE NEW
YORK TIMES," WELCOME TO THE NEW
YORK TIMES CLOSE UP.
WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE.
WE'LL EXPLORE POSSIBILITIES WITH
OUR FIRST GUEST JOSEPH LHOTA WHO
IS CHAIRMAN OF THE MTA WITH A
MOST UNENVIABLE JOB BUT HE IS
THE MOST CAPABLE PERSON TO LEAD
THE BELEAGUERED AGENCY.
NOW YOU GET TO MEET COLUMNIST
MICHELLE GOLDBERG.
SHE'LL JOIN US LATER IN THE
PROGRAM.
MY TIMES COLLEAGUES CLYDE
HABERMAN AND ELEANOR RANDOLPH
AND J. DAVID GOODMAN AND
NIKITA STEWART LOOK AHEAD ON
THE BACK STORY AND I'LL HAVE
THOUGHTS ON THE WEEK ON THE
CODA.
BUT FIRST, JOSEPH LHOTA,
CHAIRMAN OF THE MTA. YOU
SAID IT WAS THE SENSE OF THE MTA
BOARD THAT WE NEED TO REPLACE
THE FARE INCREASES WITH A NEW
STREAM OF REVENUE.
THE OTHER DAY THE GOVERNOR SAID
WE NEED NEW REVENUE AND TO
REDUCE TRAFFIC CONGESTION IN THE
CITY.
IS THERE ANYTHING OTHER THAN
CONGESTION PRICING AND MAYBE WE
SHOULD COME ONE A NEW NAME FOR
IT THAT WOULD DO BOTH OF THOSE
THINGS.
>> OF COURSE IT COULD BE A
DEDICATED TAX.
I'M NOT SURE THE LEGISLATURE IS
INTERESTING A NEW TAX TO ADD ON.
WE'RE EXTREMELY TAXED STATE.
WHAT IS GOING ON IN WASHINGTON
NOW WITH THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE
WOULDN'T HAVE DEDUGTIBLE OF
STATE AND LOCAL TAXES WOULD
ALMOST MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE.
IF THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED TODAY
THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A TASK
FORCE THAT HE'S PUT TOGETHER OF
FOLKS TO REPORT TO HIM
RELATIVELY QUICKLY AN APPROACH.
HE'S INCLUDING THE STATE
CONTROLLER TO VERIFY THE NUMBERS
THEY COME UP WITH SO THERE IS
ENOUGH MONEY GENERATED FOR MASS
TRANSIT, COMBINED WITH DEALING
WITH THE CONGESTION PROBLEM IN
MIDTOWN.
>> YOU KNOW ABOUT TRANSPORTATION
AND MONEY.
IS CONGESTION PRICING A GOOD
IDEA?
>> IF PROPERLY STRUCTURED,
YES, IT IS A GOOD IDEA.
I'M A BIG BELIEVER IN SUPPLY AND
DEMAND AND THAT'S REALLY AT THE
CORE OF IT BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF
CONSTITUENCY IN NEW YORK AND IT
WILL TAKE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF
POLITICAL SKILL TO GET TO DONE.
>> HOW DO YOU GET THE MAYOR ON
BOARD.
THAT IS NOT YOUR JOB BUT SOMEONE
HAS TO.
>> IT DEPENDS ON HOW IT IS
STRUCTURED.
WHETHER IT INCLUDES THE BRIDGES
AND THE MANHATTAN BRIDGE AND THE
BROOKLYN BRIDGE THAT DON'T HAVE
A TOLL, VARIOUS DIFFERENT WAYS.
TECHNOLOGY HAS CHANGED A LOT
SINCE MAYOR BLOOMBERG FIRST
PROPOSED THIS.
NOW THAT WE HAVE ALL CASHLESS ON
THE BRIDGE AND TUNNEL AUTHORITY
OR WHAT I CALL MTA BRIDGES AND
TUNNELS NOW, YOU COULD HAVE WAYS
TO BE ABLE TO DETERMINE A CAR
COMING IN AND GOING OUT.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT ONE ON
THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE BUT WHEN YOU
COME OFF THE BRIDGE AND ON TO
CENTER STREET, IF THAT WAS PART
OF WHAT IS CALLED THE CENTRAL
BUSINESS DISTRICT, YOU WOULD BE
CHARGED AND WHAT WOULD THAT BE.
THERE HAVE BEEN PROPOSALS THAT
HAVE WORK AND SOME HAVE NOT
WORKED AND SO I'M SURE THE
COMMITTEE AND THE CONSULTANTS
COULD LOOK AROUND THE WORLD AND
SEE HOW IT WORKS.
>> THE TIMES HAVE WRITTEN THAT
THE MAJOR CAUSE OF SUBWAY DELAYS
IS OVERCROWDING, IN EFFECT THE
SYSTEM A VICTIM OF ITS OWN
SUCCESS.
IF THAT IS SO, THEN HAVE WE JUST
REACHED A POINT WHERE WE'RE
OVERCAPACITY AND IF SO WHAT DO
YOU DO ABOUT IT.
>> SO I -- I'VE READ WHAT SHE'S
WRITTEN AND SOME WONDERFUL
THINGS IN THE ARTICLE WHEN SHE
WENT TO LONDON TO COMPARE HOW
THEY WORK THERE HAS BEEN
HELPFUL, I WILL TELL YOU
CONGESTION IS ONE OF THE
PROBLEMS BUT NOT THE PRIMARY
PROBLEM.
THERE IS DISINVESTMENT IN
MAINTENANCE WITHIN THE TRANSIT
AUTHORITY AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE
FOCUSED ON WITH THE SUBWAY
PLAN. REGARDING THE NUMBER
OF PEOPLE ON BOARD, IF I
CAN GET THE SYSTEMS UP AND
RUNNING IN A WAY AND WE
CAN GET MORE TRAINS
THROUGH QUICKER AND FASTER, THE
NUMBER OF SEVEN LINE RIGHT NOW,
WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE -- WHEN
WE OPEN UP WITH COMMUNICATION
BASED CONTROLS WHICH WILL
HAPPEN IN THE FIRST OF THE YEAR,
WE'LL BE ABLE TO GET DURING RUSH
HOUR 30 TRAINS PER HOUR THROUGH
EVERY STOP.
>> COMPARED TO WHAT NOW.
>> IT IS ABOUT 26 -- 24 TO 26.
>> YOU ARE TALKING A LITTLE BIT
OVER 10% INCREASE.
BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT AS 30
TRAINS PER HOUR, THAT IS ONE
TRAIN EVERY TWO MINUTES AND THAT
WILL ELIMINATE THE CONGESTION.
THERE IS ONE THING AND I'VE
TALKED TO OTHERS ABOUT THIS AND
THAT IS IT SEEMS LIKE NEW
YORKERS, WE ALL TEND TO COME TO
WORK AT THE SAME TIME.
THERE ARE CERTAIN TIMES OF DAY
WHEN THERE IS A TREMENDOUS
AMOUNT OF ACTIVITY.
>> AND DON'T GO TO THE MIDDLE
OF THE CARS.
>> AND IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU GET
OUT.
THE NEW CARS WILL HAVE LARGER
DOORS AND THE SEATS ARE NOT
GOING RIGHT TO THE DOOR.
THEY'LL HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF
ROOM SO PEOPLE STAND -- THE GUY
WHO CAN'T DEAL WITH ANYWHERE
BUT STANDING AT THE DOOR.
WE'LL CLEAR A SPOT FOR HIM.
BECAUSE GETTING ON AND OFF IS A
VERY INTERESTING PROBLEM THAT WE
HAVE HERE IN NEW YORK.
>> WE'VE GOT SOMETHING LIKE 6
MILLION RIDERS A DAY.
THE HIGHEST LEVEL SINCE THE
1940S. THE DID THE SUBWAY WORK
IN THE 1940s AND IF IT DID, WHY
DOESN'T IT WORK NOW.
>> I WASN'T BORN THEN AND I
DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN THE
1940s.
BUT THE SUBWAY SYSTEM THAT I
KNEW HAD NO AIR-CONDITIONING AND
WICKER SEATS AND FANS AND
WINDOWS THAT OPENED AND REMEMBER
IT BEING VERY, VERY HOT.
SO I'M SURE, BUT THERE IS NO
REASON TO GO BACK AND COMPARE
WHAT WAS TO WHAT IS AND WHAT
SHOULD BE.
I THINK WE NEED TO START
FOCUSING ON MAKING IT THE
BEST SYSTEM IN
THE WORLD AND IT IS THE LARGEST
AND IT COULD BE THE BEST.
>> BESIDES THE OVERCROWDING
ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU
POINTED OUT IS WITH
SIGNAL REPAIR.
I HAD ONE REPORT THAT SAID YOU
ARE TRYING TO CUT THE RESPONSE
TIME FROM 45 MINUTES TO 15
MINUTES.
WHY WOULD IT TAKE 45 MINUTES TO
GET A SIGNAL CREW OVER THERE TO
FIX THE SIGNAL.
>> BECAUSE THEY ARE POSITIONED
IN THE WRONG PLACE.
AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
SO WE'RE REPOSITIONING THEM IN
AREAS THAT WE THINK ARE AS CLOSE
TO WHERE THERE WOULD BE PROBLEM
AREAS.
INSTEAD OF AT THE END OF THE
LINE IN THE BRONX OR BROOKLYN OR
QUEENS, HAVE THEM SPREAD
THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
IT IS A COMMON SENSE APPROACH
AND THAT IS WHY WE COULD GET IT
DOWN TO A SHORTER PERIOD OF
TIME.
>> THAT IS WHY IT HADN'T BEEN
DONE BEFORE.
32 MILLION OR SO THE CAPITAL
PLAN FOR THE MTA, IS THAT ENOUGH
DO WE KNOW REALISTICALLY IF YOU
ARE IN CHARGE OF THE WORLD, HOW
MUCH SHOULD WE BE SPENDING AND
HOW MUCH OF THAT IS ALREADY
FUNDED.
>> IT IS THEORETICALLY ALL
FUNDED RIGHT NOW AND IS IT
ENOUGH, IT IS ENOUGH FOR THE
REMAINING THREE YEARS OF PLAN.
WE'RE GOING TO NEED ANOTHER
FIVE-YEAR PLAN SHORTLY.
AND WE'RE STARTING TO WORK ON
THAT.
WE'RE GOING TO NEED NEW CARS.
WE'RE GOING TO NEED NEW RAIL AND
LOOK, WE'VE STARTED THIS PROCESS
OF RENOVATING STATIONS.
WE OPENED UP THE NEW STATION IN
BROOKLYN ON THE R LINE.
I ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO OUT THERE.
YOU WON'T BELIEVE YOU ARE ON A
SUBWAY.
YOU COULD CHARGE YOUR PHONE AND
EVERYTHING IS DIGITAL AND CLEAN.
FROM THE STREET LEVEL YOU SEE
THE COUNT DOWN CLOCK ON THE
STREET LEVEL SO YOU DON'T HAVE
TO GO DOWN AS WELL TO SEE IT.
WE NEED TO DO THAT IN ALL OF OUR
SUBWAY STOPS IN THE CITY.
WE NEED TO MAKE THEM LOOK
BETTER.
>> IF YOU WERE IN CHARGE OF THE
WORLD AND COULD GET ONE WISH FOR
THE MTA, WHAT WOULD IT BE.
>> THAT I MOVE TO MALIBU AND
LIVE ON THE OCEAN.
IF I HAD ONE WISH, IS THAT WE
DIDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE
COST OF RUNNING THE SYSTEM.
BECAUSE THAT BURDEN OF WONDERING
WHERE IS THE -- WHERE THE
OPERATING DOLLARS COMING
FROM AND WHERE THE CAPITAL IS
GOING TO COME FROM.
THAT IS THE ONE WISH THAT YOU
DIDN'T HAVE THE FINANCE BURDEN
ON US.
>> MAYBE THE GOVERNOR COULD FIX
THAT.
THANKS TO JOSEPH LHOTA FOR
JOINING US AND WHEN WE RETURN
THE NEW OP-ED COLUMNIST
FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES
MICHELLE GOLDBERG.
>>> WELCOME BACK TO THE NEW YORK
TIMES CLOSE UP.
JOINING ME NEW OP-ED PAGE
COLUMNIST MICHELLE GOLDBERG.
SHE'S WRITTEN A NUMBER OF BOOKS,
INCLUDING THE BEST-SELLER
KINGDOM COMING,
THE RISE OF CHRISTIAN
NATIONALISM, THE GODDESS POSE,
THE MEANS OF
REPRODUCTION AND NOW WRITING
COLUMNS TWICE A WEEK FOR THE NEW
YORK TIMES. YOU WROTE
NOT LONG AGO THAT WE
HAVE AN UNHINGED LUNATIC WHO
LOST THE POPULAR VOTE AND
WAS INSTALLED WITH THE
AID OF A HOSTILE
FOREIGN POWER AND IT CALLS
EVERYTHING WE THOUGHT WE KNEW
ABOUT THIS COUNTRY'S STABILITY
INTO QUESTION BUT MORE RECENTLY
YOU SAID THE COUNTRY HAS HELD UP
PRETTY WELL CONSIDERING.
SO WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE
MAN AND THE INSTITUTIONS AND THE
RESILIENCY OF THE COUNTRY.
>> THE SECOND PART OF THAT WAS
CONSIDERING UNTIL PUERTO RICO.
THAT WAS BASICALLY ABOUT
HOW OUR DIPLOMACY HAS GONE TO
HELL, THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS
BEEN HOLLOWED OUT, THE
INSTITUTIONS SEEM TO BE UNDER
ATTACK.
POLITICAL NORMS ARE FALLING
RIGHT AND LEFT.
MATERIALLY, IT -- AFTER TRUMP
WAS INAUGURATED, IT SEEMED
STRANGE THAT YOU COULD STILL
WALK DOWN THE STREET OR TAKE
MONEY OUT OF THE BANK.
THERE WASN'T TRASH FIRES
EVERYWHERE.
HOUSING PRICES DIDN'T COLLAPSE.
IT WAS SUCH A CALAMITIY AND THE
ECONOMY HAS HUMMED ALONG
PRETTY WELL.
IN PUERTO RICO WE'RE STARTING TO
SEE THE MATERIAL CONSEQUENCES OF
HAVING A PRESIDENT WHO HAS NO
BUSINESS BEING THERE.
>> IS HE DOING ANYTHING RIGHT?
>> I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING.
>> REALLY?
>> CAN YOU?
>> WELL THERE ARE A COUPLE OF
THINGS HE SAID HE IS DOING
RIGHT.
THAT IS CERTAINLY TRUE.
YOU SAY WE HAVE ENTERERED A
PERIOD OF MINORITY RULE.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT.
>> THE CONSTITUTION -- THE
CONSTITUTION WAS NEVER CREATED
AS- AMERICAN WAS NEVER SUPPOSED
TO BE A DIRECT DEMOCRACY AND
THERE ARE GOOD REASONS FOR
PROTECTIONS FOR MINORITIES IN
THE DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM BUT WE'VE
ENTER THE PERIOD WHERE THE
MAJORITY THAT HATES DONALD TRUMP
AND WHAT HE IS DOING THIS THE
COUNTRY CANNOT EXERCISE POWER AT
ANY LEVEL OF THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT.
SO YOU HAVE A MINORITY
PRESIDENT, AND IT IS WORTH
REMEMBERING THAT WHEN THAT
HAPPENED IN 2000, WITH GEORGE W.
BUSH, THAT WAS CONSIDERED A
SHOCKING ANOMALY. IT HADN'T
HAPPENED IN OVER A HUNDRED YEARS
AND PEOPLE TREATED IT AS A FLUKE
AND IF THIS HAPPENS AGAIN THEN
THERE IS A LEGITIMACY QUESTION.
SO IT DID HAPPEN AGAIN AND IT IS
NOT A COINCIDENCE THAT AT THOSE
TIMES IT WORKED TO THE
REPUBLICANS BENEFIT BECAUSE OF
THE ADVANTAGE THAT SMALL STATES
HAVE BUILT IN TO THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE WHICH IS ONLY
GETTING MORE PRONOUNCED AS THE
DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THE BIGGEST
STATES, THE POPULATION
DISCREPANCY, AND THE SMALL
STATES GROWS.
SO NOW YOU HAVE THE MINORITY
PRESIDENT BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE
FACT THAT MOST OF THE POLLS SHOW
THAT MAJORITIES ARE GOING TO
VOTE AGAINST THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY IN THE MID TERMS, AND MOST
ANALYSTS SAY THAT IT IS VERY
UNLIKELY TO BE ENOUGH TO FLIP
EITHER HOUSE.
>> ALTHOUGH THAT IS A YEAR AWAY.
>> RIGHT.
BUT THE ANALYSIS SAYS THAT
DEMOCRATS WOULD NEED TO GET 10%
MORE TOTAL VOTES THAN
REPUBLICANS TO WIN THE HOUSE.
AND SO THERE IS SO MANY PEOPLE
FIND THIS PRESIDENT AND THIS
ADMINISTRATION FINDS THEM SO
INTOLERABLE AND THEY ARE
STRUCTURALLY LOCKED OUT ABOUT
DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
>> INTOLERABLE.
DO PEOPLE REALIZE THAT THE
FREEDOM OF SPEECH IMPLIES THE
OBLIGATION OR CERTAINLY AT LEAST
THE FREEDOM TO LISTEN.
>> SO I HAVE A COLUMN THAT I'M
WORKING ON RIGHT NOW AND THERE
ARE TIMES THAT I THOUGHT THE
IDEA THAT THERE IS A WAR ON FREE
SPEECH ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES HAS
BEEN OVERBLOWN ALTHOUGH
THERE WAS DISTURBING FOOTAGE
THIS WEEK WHERE ACTIVISTS
SHOUTED DOWN A TALK ON FREE
SPEECH BY THE HEAD OF THE
VIRGINIA ACLU AND THE POINT THAT
I WANT TO MAKE IS IN SOME WAYS I
KIND OF UNDERSTAND WHY THESE
KIDS ROLL THEIR EYES WHEN THEY
HEAR FREE SPEECH BECAUSE THEY'VE
GROWN UP IN A TIME WHEN FREE
SPEECH IS THE SLOGAN OF RIGHT
WING PROVOCATEURS AND SAY
THINGS WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES.
BUT IT IS OBVIOUSLY SO MUCH MORE
THAN THAT AND WHAT I THINK GETS
LOST IN THIS IS THAT
ALTHOUGH YOU HAVE A FEVERED
ATMOSPHERE IN COLLEGE CAMPUSES
WITH LEFT WINGS AND IF YOU LOOK
NATIONALLY, THERE IS SUCH A
PROFOUND WAR ON FREE SPEECH
BEING WAGED FROM THE RIGHT.
WHETHER YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
DONALD TRUMP CALLING FOR PEOPLE
TO GET FIRED FOR KNEELING ON A
FOOTBALL FIELD, OR STATES THAT
ARE PASSING LAWS TO HARASS
PROTESTERS AND SEVERAL STATES
HAVE SEVERAL LEGISLATURES HAVE
PROPOSED LAWS, NOT PASSED THEM,
THAT BASICALLY WOULD INDEMNIFY
CARS THAT HIT PROTESTERS WHO ARE
BLOCKING ROADWAYS.
SO YOU HAVE THIS WAR ON PROTEST,
THIS IS THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME.
>> BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE ARE
SEEING ATTACKS ON FREE SPEECH
BY THE LEFT.
>> YEAH, I THINK THAT IS TRUE.
WELL I GUESS I WOULD SAY DEFINE
A LOT, BUT THAT IS
ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
>> I'M NOT EQUATING BUT
THERE ARE PEOPLE OF THE LEFT WHO
ARE SAYING WE SHOULDN'T BE
ALLOWED TO LISTEN TO CERTAIN
SPEAKERS.
>> YES.
WELL NOT THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE
ALLOWED TO LISTEN, BUT THAT
CERTAIN SPEAKERS SHOULDN'T BE --
>> INVITED.
>> AND TO ME, HERE IS THE THING
THAT IS DIFFICULT.
I FEEL LIKE EVERYBODY BELIEVES
THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN IDEAS
THAT ARE BEYOND THE PAIL.
AND EVERYBODY -- THE PROBLEM IS
THAT WE'VE LOST ANY SENSE OF
CONSENSUS ABOUT WHAT THOSE ARE
SO EVERYBODY IS STRUGGLING OVER
WHAT THOSE LINES SHOULD BE AND
SORT OF THE NATURE OF COLLEGE
STUDENTS TO PUSH THOSE BOUNDIES
AND I THINK IT IS UP TO THE
RESPONSIBLE LEFT TO PUSH BACK.
>> THERE OUGHT TO BE SOME GROWN
UPS SOMEWHERE.
LET ME ASK YOU A TERRIBLY
LEADING QUESTION. YOU HAD A
WONDERFUL CONVERSATION AT
NYTIMES.COM WITH GAIL COLLINS
ABOUT WHAT IT IS LIKE
AND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN OP ED
COLUMNIST.
DO PEOPLE EVER SAY TO YOU, WHAT
ENTITLES YOU TO GIVE YOUR
OPINION IN THE NEW YORK TIMES?
>> I IMAGINE PEOPLE THINK IT.
I CERTAINLY THINK IT ALL OF THE
TIME.
I MEAN, I'M STILL GOBSMACKED
TO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THIS
OPPORTUNITY.
AND I HONESTLY CAN'T GIVE YOU AN
ANSWER.
>> WELL SOMEONE MUST HAVE
THOUGHT THAT YOU WERE GOOD
ENOUGH.
IS THERE A DIFFERENCE IN WRITING
FOR PRINT AND FOR THE WEB,
FOR THE NYTIMES.COM.
>> I DON'T THINK THERE IS A
DIFFERENCE THAT YOU ARE NOT
BOUND BY THE SAME SPACE
CONSTRAINTS.
AND THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN
WRITING FOR THE WEB.
FOR EXAMPLE SLATE WHERE I USED
TO WORK, THE WHOLE PROCESS IS SO
MUCH FASTER AND THE NEW YORK
TIMES CAN'T BE BECAUSE THEY HAVE
TO BE MORE CAREFUL AND
DELIBERATE.
AND IT SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE ARE
STILL TRYING TO STRIKE THAT
BALANCE BETWEEN INCREDIBLE
TIMELINESS AND THE CARE THAT
EVERYTHING THAT GOES IN THE NEW
YORK TIMES DESERVES.
>> TRYING TO DO THAT EVERY DAY.
THANKS TO MICHELLE GOLDBERG FOR
JOINING US.
YOU COULD READ HER COLUMN IN
PRINT AND ONLINE TUESDAYS AND
FRIDAYS AND WHEN WE RETURN, THE
BACK STORY WITH MY TIMES
COLLEAGUES.
>>> WELCOME BACK TO THE NEW YORK
TIMES CLOSE UP, WHAT A WEEK IT
HAS BEEN.
HORRIFIC IN LAS VEGAS, THE SCENE
OF UNSPEAKABLE CARNAGE.
PUERTO RICO CONTINUES TO
STRUGGLE TO REGAIN SOME
SEMBLANCE OF NORMALCY.
AND MANY OF THE CITIES RESIDENTS
STILL TRYING TO COMMUNICATE WITH
THEIR FAMILIES.
AND WITH THE MONTH BEFORE THE
ELECTION, THE RACE FOR CITY
COUNCIL SPEAKER MAY BE THE ONE
TO WATCH.
JOINING ME TO DISCUSS THESE
STORIES AND MORE, MY NEW YORK
TIMES COLLEAGUES, WRITER CLYDE
HABERMAN AND ELEANOR RANDOLPH.
CITY HALL BUREAU
REPORTER J. DAVID GOODMAN
AND METRO REPORTER NIKITA
STEWART.
DAVID YOU WROTE THE OTHER DAY
THAT THE MAYOR IS CONTINUING TO
REHAB HOUSING UNITS,
SO-CALLED AFFORDABLE UNITS
AFFORDABLE BEING A RELATIVE TERM
AND THAT YOU KEEP WRITING ABOUT
THE FACT THAT HOMELESSNESS If
NOT GETTING WORSE, CERTAINLY
DOESN'T SEEM TO BE GETTING
BETTER.
HOW DO WE RECONCILE THESE TWO
THINGS.
>> THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION.
>> I WAS HOPING YOU GUYS
WOULD SOLVE IT.
OF THE NUMBERS OF HOUSING
THAT ARE BEING CREATED OR
REHABILITATED OR WHATEVER REAL.
>> YES.
THEY ARE REAL.
IT IS A QUESTION OF WHAT YOU
WANT OUT OF THE MAYOR'S PLAN AND
THE CRITICS THAT WILL ATTACK HIS
PLAN WILL SAY THAT THESE ARE NOT
TARGETED AT THE RIGHT
POPULATIONS TO HELP WITH THE
HOMELESS ISSUES.
SO IF YOU ARE BUILDING A CERTAIN
NUMBER OF -- A LARGE NUMBER OF
UNITS THAT -- ABOUT 77 -- THEY
FINANCED ABOUT 77,000 UNITS TO
DATE.
THEY'VE BUILT A MUCH SMALLER
NUMBER OF THEM BUT EVEN WITHIN
THE NUMBER, AT THE LOWEST LEVEL,
IT IS ONLY A FRACTION OF THAT
TOTAL PLAN.
AND SO THAT WAS ALWAYS THE
APPROACH THEY ARE GOING TO BUILD
A CERTAIN NUMBER OF MIDDLE
INCOME UNITS TO SUBSIDIZE THE
LOWER INCOME UNITS THAT ARE
BEING CROSS SUBSIDIZED AND THEY
WANT TO DO THAT BECAUSE THEY
WANT TO KEEP THE CITY A PLACE
THAT PEOPLE CAN LIVE AT ALL
INCOME LEVELS.
BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE IS
A HUGE DEMAND AT THE LOWEST END
AND AT THE MIDDLE END THERE IS
MARKET RACE OPTIONS AND WHEN YOU
CRUNCH THE NUMBERS AND LOOK INTO
IT, FEWER PEOPLE ARE APPLYING
FOR MIDDLE INCOME UNITS AS
APPLY FOR THE LOTTERIES FOR
THE LOWER INCOME UNITS.
AND SO THE PEOPLE WHO SAY
THEY SHOULD DO MORE AT THAT
LEVEL, MIGHT HAVE A POINT.
>> NIKITA, WE'RE PUTTING PEOPLE
IN HOTELS WHERE THE MAYOR'S
PROMISING TO OPEN 90 NEW
SHELTERS SO WHERE ARE WE ON THIS
PROBLEM.
>> IF GO BACK TO WHAT DAVID WAS
TALKING ABOUT WITH THE HOUSING
THAT THE MAYOR IS CREATING AND
PROTECTING, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHO
IS HOMELESS IN THE CITY, WE HAVE
MOSTLY FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN.
FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN NEED
LARGER APARTMENTS AND THEY COST
MORE MONEY.
AND SO THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE
SEEING A DISCONNECT IN KIND OF
THE MAYOR'S PLAN AND WHO
ACTUALLY NEEDS TO BENEFIT.
AND THEN AS A STOPGAP, THE CITY
EVEN BEFORE MAYOR DE BLASIO CAME
INTO OFFICE, THEY HAD A
DIFFERENT APPROACH.
THEY CREATED THE SO-CALLED
CLUSTER APARTMENTS WHICH WERE
PRIVATE APARTMENTS IN PRIVATE
BUILDINGS BEING USED AS SHELTER.
BUT IT IS NOT IDEAL PEOPLE THAT
PEOPLE DON'T GET THE SERVICES
THEY NEED, THEY DON'T HAVE AS
MUCH COMMUNICATION WITH SOCIAL
WORKERS THAT THEY NEED TO HELP
THEM GET APARTMENTS AND THEN YOU
HAVE HOTELS.
AND NOW THAT THE MAYOR IS
CLOSING A LOT OF THE CLUSTER
APARTMENTS, THEY ARE PUTTING
MORE PEOPLE IN HOTELS AND EVEN
THOUGH THE MAYOR HAD PROMISED
THAT THE CITY WON'T USE HOTELS
IN FIVE YEARS.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT IT, I DON'T
THINK -- I CAN'T SEE HOW THEY
COULD --
>> FIVE YEARS AHEAD WHEN YOU
WON'T BE THERE ANY MORE.
>> RIGHT.
>> SPEAKING OF WHICH, WE HAVE
THE FIRST GENERAL ELECTION
MAYORAL DEBATE COMING
UP THIS NEXT WEEK.
IF YOU WERE ON A PANEL OF
INTERVIEWERS, WHAT WOULD YOU
WANT TO ASK THE MAYOR.
>> WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IS HE
GOING TO TRAVEL A LOT WHEN -- IF
HE'S -- WHEN HE'S RE-ELECTED.
>> NOT ON THE SUBWAY, YOU MEAN.
OUT OF TOWN.
>> IS HE GOING TO TRAVEL ON THE
SUBWAY AND IS HE GOING TO BE
HERE AND BE OUR MAYOR.
>> AND HE DOES SEE HIMSELF AS A
MAJOR FIGURE IN PROGRESSIVE
AMERICA.
SO I DON'T THINK HE'S MAKING ANY
APOLOGIES FOR WANTING TO BE ON
THE ROAD A LOT.
AND THAT IS ONE QUESTION.
THE QUESTION WOULD BE WHAT WOULD
HIS PRINCIPAL AGENDA BE BUT I
WONDER IF THAT IS NOT SOME
JOURNALISM AFFECT, IF SOMEBODY
HAS TO HAVE A GRAND PLAN FOR THE
FIRST TERM AND SOMETHING
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OR
NOTICEABLE FOR THE SECOND TERM.
AS IF CONTINUING LOWER CRIME AND
PICKING UP THE GARBAGE AND SO ON
IS NOT THEIR OWN REWARD.
>> IS IT A JOURNALIST AFFECT TO
HAVE A DEBATE IN THIS ELECTION.
>> ARGUABLY BUT IT IS STILL A
GOOD THING TO HAVE.
A REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IS A VERY
CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLYWOMAN FROM
STATEN ISLAND.
SHE DIFFERS WITH THE MAYOR ON
MANY THINGS.
AND SHE DESERVES TO BE HEARD.
AND BO DIETL WILL BE THE TRUMP
OF THE DEBATE.
THE INSULT GUY.
AND I THINK WE'VE ALL HAD ENOUGH
OF THAT.
BUT MS. MALLIOTAKIS
AND THE MAYOR, THEY
HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS OF
GOVERNMENT'S ROLE AND WHETHER
HER FACTS ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT.
SHE TALKS ABOUT CRIME AS IF IT
IS OUT OF CONTROL WHEN THE
OPPOSITE IS SO.
BUT IN TERMS OF PHILOSOPHY, THEY
ARE QUITE DIFFERENT.
>> AND ANY DEBATE IS --
ESPECIALLY FOR -- DE BLASIO
NEEDED DEBATES AND MORE
COMPETITION.
THE ONE THING --
>> HE DID OR THE CITY DID.
>> DE BLASIO.
REALLY, HE'S -- HE'S GOING TO
WIN THIS WITH A WALK.
AND IT'S -- SHE'S THE ONLY ONE
WHO IS REALLY QUESTIONING HIM IN
AN APPROPRIATE WAY FOR THE
POLITICS OF THE RIGHT AND HE'S
DEFINITELY THE POLITICS OF THE
LEFT AND PEOPLE -- I DON'T KNOW
WHETHER PEOPLE WILL WATCH THIS,
BUT IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT
HE BE CHALLENGED.
>> AND BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
DAVID, YOU SAID THE BIG RACE, IF
THERE IS ANYTHING COMPETITIVE,
IS THE RACE FOR COUNCIL
SPEAKERSHIP AND THE PEOPLE
RUNNING ARE LIKELY TO RUN, WILL
IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE
POLITICALLY IN THE LIFE OF THE
CITY?
>> THAT IS AN INTERESTING
QUESTION.
CERTAINLY AT THIS POINT THEY ARE
NOT ARGUING ON THE BASIS OF
POLICY AT ALL.
THEY ARE ARGUING IT IS ALL ABOUT
WINNING OVER 50 OF YOUR FELLOW
MEMBERS IN THE CITY COUNCIL.
SO IT IS NOT VOTERS THAT VOTE
AND THAT IS ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS
AND ABOUT WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO
DO FOR ME DOWN THE ROAD.
IT IS POLITICS OUTSIDE.
ONE PERSON SAID IT IS NOT LIKE
PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IT BEING A
HIGH SCHOOL PROM, IT IS NOT LIKE
THAT.
IT IS PROM IF EVERY OTHER PERSON
IN YOUR TOWN IS ALSO TRYING TO
INFLUENCE WHO'S GOING TO WIN
THE HIGH SCHOOL PROM.
AND IT IS A -- IT IS NOT REALLY
ABOUT AT THE END OF THE DAY,
WHAT THE POLITICS WILL BE, THESE
ARE ALL ON A SPECTRUM OF
PROGRESSIVE ESSENTIALLY AND HOW
YOU CARRY YOURSELF AND WHAT KIND
OF LEADER YOU WILL BE AND THERE
ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT FEEL THAT
SOME OF THE CANDIDATES WOULDN'T
BE AS EFFECTIVE OR STRONG AND
STANDING UP TO THE MAYOR.
MIGHT BE TO CLOSE TO HIM AND AN
APPETITE FOR HAVING AN
INDEPENDENT COUNCIL AND WHETHER
THEY WANT IT TO BE THAT
ANTAGONISTIC, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT THERE IS A SPECTRUM OF
CANDIDATES THAT WOULD BE CLOSER
OR FURTHER AWAY FROM THE MAYOR
AND THAT IS THE BIG QUESTION.
>> COLUMBUS DAY COMING UP, HE
WILL NOT SAY WHAT HE IS DOING
WITH THE STATUE IN
COLUMBUS CIRCLE.
DO WE HAVE ANY HINT WHERE THE
PANEL IS GOING TO GO.
>> HE GAVE THEM 90 DAYS, THEY
WILL PASS THE ELECTION SO HE
COULD AVOID THAT AND STILL GET
CREDIT FOR HAVING STOOD UP
FOR WHATEVER.
I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND OF
THIS.
AND IT OPENS UP THE CAN OF
WORMS.
MANY HISTORICAL FIGURES IN THIS
CITY WERE FLAWED PEOPLE TO SAY
THE LEAST.
WHETHER IT WAS PETER STUYVESANT
WHO EXILED JEWS AND OTHER
RELIGIOUS MINORITIES.
EVEN FIORELLO LA GARDIA,
HAD PUT JAPENESE AMERICANS
UNDER HOUSE ARREST.
>> THANKS TO MY TIMES
COLLEAGUES.
CLYDE HABERMAN AND ELEANOR
RANDOLPH AND J. DAVID GOODMAN
AND NIKITA STEWART FOR JOINING
US.
I'LL BE BACK WITH FINAL THOUGHTS
WHEN WE RETURN.
>>> ON JANUARY 23rd, 1911,
FITZHUGH GOLDSBORO, A 31 YEAR
OLD VIOLINIST FIRED SEVEN SHOTS
FROM HIS AUTOMATIC REVOLVER
NEAR GRAMERCY PARK. THE
FIRST SIX FATALLY WOUNDED THE
NOVELIST DAVID GRAHAM PHILLIPS,
AND THEN GOLDSBORO PUT
THE GUN TO HIS TEMPLE AND FIRED
ONCE.
THE DOUBLE SHOOTING WAS THE LEAD
ARTICLE IN THE NEXT DAY NEW YORK
TIMES.
GEORGE LE BRUN AN ASSISTANT TO
THE CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER
CONCLUDED THAT *** HAD BECOME
A PUBLIC HEALTH PROBLEM.
I REASON THAT THE TIME HAD COME
TO HAVE LEGISLATION PASSED THAT
WOULD PREVENT THE SALE OF
PISTOLS TO IRRESPONSIBLE
PERSONS.
IN THE VERNACULAR OF THE DAY,
HE WROTE, THERE OUGHT TO BE A
LAW. THE ***/ SUICIDE
INSPIRED STATE SENATOR
TIMOTHY SULLIVAN TO DEMAND
JUST SUCH A LAW.
A BAN ON CONCEALED WEAPONS.
THE GUN TOTER, THE TOUGH MAN,
SULLIVAN SAID, I DON'T WANT HIS
VOTE. BIG TIM'S
MOTIVES WERE SUSPECT.
WAS THE TAMMANY BOSS
SEEKING TO KEEP MORE
GUNS FROM HIS GANGSTER ALLIES?
HE WAS ALSO A QUINTESSENTIAL
PARTY HACK AND BACK THEN
THAT MEANT HE UNDERSTOOD GOOD
GOVERNMENT WAS GOOD POLITICS.
UPSTATE LEGISLATORS QUESTIONED
THE BAN'S IMPACT.
YOU CAN'T FORCE A BURGLAR TO GET
A LICENSE TO USE A GUN AN
UPSTATE SENATOR SAID.
HE WILL GET ONE FROM ANOTHER
STATE.
SULLIVAN INVOKED THE BIBLE.
IT SEEMS TO ME, HE SAID, THAT
THIS BILL WILL HELP ALONG
OBEDIENCE TO THE COMMANDMENT
THOU SHALL NOT KILL.
TODAY THE SULLIVAN LAW IS
STILL ON THE BOOKS BUT EVEN A
CENTURY AGO GEORGE LE BRUN
HAD WARNED THAT THE
BAN IS ONLY FULLY AFFECTIVE IF
WERE ADOPTED NATIONWIDE.
IT IS LIKE CORRUPTION IN ALBANY.
THE PROBLEM ISN'T WHAT IS
ALREADY ILLEGAL WHEN MORE NEW
YORKERS ARE LIKELY TO SHOOT
THEMSELVES THAN GET SHOT.
THE PROBLEM IS THE EXISTING
REGULATIONS THAT MAKE GUN AND
AMMUNITION PURCHASES LEGAL.
INSTEAD OF CLOSING LOOPHOLES,
CONGRESS IS CONSIDERING
LEGISLATION THAT WOULD LET
SOMEONE WITH A CONCEALED CARRY
PERMIT FROM THE STATE WITH
LOOSER REGULATIONS, NEVADA SAY,
TO LEGALLY CARRY HIS GUN IN
STATES WITH STRONGER REGULATIONS
LIKE NEW YORK.
SO MUCH FOR STATE'S RIGHTS.
AND FOR WHAT HAPPENS IN VEGAS,
STAYS IN VEGAS.
LE BRUN AND HIS CRITICS WERE
BOTH RIGHT.
TODAY MORE THAN EIGHT IN TEN OF
EVERY TRACED GUN USED TO COMMIT
A CRIME COMES TO NEW YORK FROM
ANOTHER STATE.
THE SULLIVAN LAW WAS NOT AUTHOR
DAVID GRAHAM PHILLIP'S ONLY
LEGACY.
HIS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING SO
ANGERED TEDDY ROOSEVELT THAT THE
PRESIDENT DENOUNCED PHILLIP'S
AND HIS FELLOW AGITATORS AS
QUOTE, MUCKRAKERS.
PHILLIPS' ARTICLES THAT VEX MOST
APPEARED UNDER THE HEADLINE THAT
IS NO LESS APT THAT THE CONGRESS
BEHOLDING TO THE GUN LOBBY.
IT WAS CALLED THE TREASON OF THE
SENATE. IT BEGAN THIS WAY.
IT IS A STRONG WORD BUT NOT TOO
STRONG TO CHARACTERIZE IN WHICH
THE SENATE IS THE EAGER AGENT
OF INTEREST AS HOSTILE TO THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE AS ANY INVADING
ARMY COULD BE.
FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES AND CUNY
TV, I'M SAM ROBERTS.
♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪