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Today on inside the issues I speak with David Dewitt on
international law and governance hello and welcome to this week's edition of
inside the issues the CG online podcast I'm David Welch teacher
a global security at the office cool international affairs and professor
political science at the University Waterloo and
senior fellow here at CG every week we're pleased to welcome guests into the
studios here the centre for international governance innovation
talk about some timely and important item on the global agenda
and today i'm happy to welcome David Witt welcome
they went back thank you to the program david is the
vice president for programs here at the CG
and today we're going to do something a little bit different which is to talk
about CD in CDs programs but with reference specifically to
international legal issues and related items that are on
CG's research agenda in the occasion is the recent
announcement very exciting announcement the establishment CG's new
international law research program congratulations
and thank you I've had a lot of people contacting me about this in asking me
questions about its one trader many
who would like to know a little bit more about it so let's start there talk about
the new international our research program and
and can branch out to talk but some other issues sure apt
well this is a wonderful opportunity
matches for CG but we really see it has
an opportunity for Ontario dress Canada and hopefully as we
I develop and mature in this program to be resource that will be attractive to
colleagues is parties around the world its
unique because is a
freestanding program house with its easy this dedicated to
research and initially in three principal
areas international law and I'm
it affords us the opportunity to attract
experts from law schools
from the practice law in the private sector
and from the application in practice of law
in governments and international organizations
so the intense is to turn
this program into a resource to bring people here
and many of them full time some part-time
for extended periods will bring real expertise
we also through this program are
very fortunate to have the resources to provide up to
20 scholarships for graduate students on an annual basis
and again the students will be able to come for shorter or longer periods of
time
depending on what their needs are and what their programs allow this is not
a degree-granting program but we'll work in harmony and
in consultation and cooperation with universities
initially Ontario later elsewhere in Canada
and our intent is to be available to the international community
we do it this way because the program
is funded through the the largess the contribution
both I'm the founder
CG Jim Balsillie and a matching contribution
from the anterior government and really it is
linked with the interval notion
that international law rules
the procedures the norms that those rules and procedures
emulate enhance the opportunities
to undertake economic growth
improvement in quality of life pursuing the interests
citizens and their governments and that we need that expertise
here in Ontario to to drive change
and in the rest Canada and
the advice we've received in the work leading up to
creating this program was that as Canada's
economy expands as our population growth
as we face the challenge is an option is a globalization
these areas international law are increasingly important
yet can it is not have sufficient capacity
to meet these demands in and we like to be able to contribute to enhancing
Canadian Press
you mention that there will initially be three areas in particular yes
up three principal areas
areas are into international intellectual property law
international environmental a
law Andrew international are dealing with trade business
economic investment and CD has a number other programs are running that
sorta touch on these various issues
call economy program global security program do you imagine
this freestanding programs energizing with those as well
absolutely just as the global economy
program in the global security program and I work on
development interact and indeed our work on
Africa I am which has also been Pardesi G's place
interacts with these other streams so the international law program will be
a program with in CG and there will be
interactions is synergies across these different streams
we're already seeing that now I
we have launched about a year ago we launched the
research program on Internet Governance that has
attracted a great deal with two intention and major aspect to that
has to do with interlayer in international law
both a.m. and social
property but also
issues or enforcement cybersecurity
the global economy the Internet and all the demands that makes the international
legal community
and so we're seeing that is just one example love
the interactions between these different streams I think what is
what a special perhaps about the opportunity
with law is that
we doing this outside the sponsorship of a law school
I we're recognizing that law
enters into the lives love people in many different ways both public and
private
that Canada located in the international
trading world financial sector the politics and economics
globalization requires law I
and so we're hoping that
as a free-standing program within CG
this will attract participation by law schools by
back early from other parts I've universities that might recognize
law as a special part their own work I can imagine a fact remember
persons who teaches enough at least environmental studies
whose increasingly focusing on treaties and regulations that deal with
water quality or invasive species recognizing that
the creation the management the regulation afforded by treaties
and the challenges and enforcement the
the clash between international interest and national sovereignty rights
all address the concern if someone is a scholar environmental studies
but this person is unlikely that have gain that experience
that knowledge I from their own graduate
preparation their own research this might afford them an opportunity to do
just that
or their PhD students
one can imagine a student or faculty member doing graduate work
at a business school
without necessarily a la background but clearly whether it's
in economic regulations on
international tax law on and social property
a issues having to do with high-technology research development
the the opportunities a law
the requirements a law increase Lee penetrate into almost every sector
to prepare phrase what was said for a different issue
perhaps as too important to be left just two lawyers I
very good we're back again in a minute with David do it your watching or
listening to inside the issues the CG online podcast
look for us at CG online .org Facebook
on Twitter and on YouTube
welcome back so with the the new program is the idea that people will
up come with their own projects and propose their own projects to work on
or will there be projects here to which they can apply
and working group or some combination of those thats
a very important a question i'm glad you raised it because
i think is a mixture now will learn
over the initial couple years this program
but our expectation is that
the people who will be attracted would like to be able to take the time
use our resources to be able to participate in this
they will be attracted to it because the option is to explore important issues
that are
critical interest to them
and I would expect them more often than not
those will resonate with us because our documentation that's on the website
will will make it clear to anyone who take some time to look at it
the Ranger interest we are initially concerned with
and their their set forth in pretty broad in general terms
governance regulation effectiveness efficiency appropriateness
questions around innovation I
so it's going to really be up to those experts to calm with interesting and
exciting ideas that they want to
explore and in a sense sell those to us
at the same time we have our own ideas our own projects that are
evolving and the when I spoke up earlier incident governance is a good example
its office energy Norma's a real opportunity
so I expect that many of our projects will themselves be
the kinds of things that drop people to consider spending
six months or two years working
with us from their perspective law or their perspective
engaging international law up
so I would not presume that
it would be appropriate for I think tank to rule
anything out from the start but to really be a place
that contested ideas can be explored
that challenges can be engaged
and we're looking at this as a vehicle to provide
individuals with the chance to do
first-rate research that is explicitly policy-relevant
so we recognize that as an academic
discipline legal scholarship is terribly important as a foundation
CG's role in this is not directly to enhance
the core aspects up legal scholarship
it is to take the best legal knowledge that's available
push it to the boundaries explore new areas and keep asking a question
how does this apply to
or how all this impact the practice
with is the practice of engaging in tree making
or establishing new precedent or
fulfilling a legal obligation
or creating new legal regimes that may be required in areas that we've not yet
yet foreseen so I think we're going to have a healthy mix
what we might call curiosity and response to things that we're or
already doing and we have to be prepared to engage those who
who come to us to see how it works I guess
my last colonists they would be there
as a think tank unlike University
weeee one of our differences is that
we are interested in public policy impact
so we are interested in helping shape I'm
our research agenda and their losses things that people come
that we will say no to not because they're not worthy but because they
don't fit our needs
and we can only so much with the resources we have and so right now we
the
we have these three pillars but they're likely to in packaging ways
so for instance on on the area that deals with
business and trade and finance and
regulation well taxes not in that
in that title but I don't think go very far
unless you deal with the challenges around international tax arrangements
treaties regulations so it's likely that somewhere along the line
someone with an expertise in international tax is going to come
come to us least I hope so and I expect eventually it'll be in labor law
it may be in in employment standards because again
I love business differences it could be in terms of
questions love the different national standards up the right
love the public sector to intervene
in areas a public-private partnership am
sustainability issues if there's a
a major development that has economic that has environmental impact
and could be transparent re
these are all things that I think will need to be explored
so I expect healthy conversation will occur between CG
and experts in the field who both law schools in our practice anywhere and
government and international organizations and if we do our job well
within let's say three years launching
we should have a good representation from all those sectors
on our senior research staff
our fellows who are providing that opportunity
prove it will be back in a minute with David do it your watching or listening
to inside the issues the CG online podcast
look for a set CD online .org on Facebook
and Twitter and on YouTube sorry to ask you
technical questions about mechanics and eligibility but I'm sure a lot of the
viewers will have those on there were there is a
a mention a group of people wanted to apply together
as a as a blocking effect would you be open to that
and would there be any sweeter terms and conditions and constraints for example
would only people from Ontario initially be eligible to apply as a group or if
there were some
critical mass from Ontario but water too clever to say from United States or
somewhere else
I think we will definitely be open to
the kinda possibilities your division
play your question how quickly how soon
I'm I'm not certain I would think that
effin within 6-8 months we've addressed
I'm a core mandate to create opportunity for Ontario
expertise up then I think we will be eager to open up the door
and in creating that a opportunity for Ontario expertise
if they have if an individual has a project
that draws on the expertise from colleagues in different parts the world
not just in different parts Canada
I think that would be open for conversation because thats
in the long term interest to all of us so
I don't think we're gonna be rigid on this I think we're going to a
address each proposal on its merits
will have conversations with the the individuals who are interested
we'll see where this might go it may well be that some things are the perfect
opportunity for start-up that we will be in the first year eighteen months
and others may be more appropriate to say you note about eighteen months to
two years
will be well placed because we'll have a core group
and then you'll fit in and bring value added to that core group
but it's too early to do this now I think those are the kinds of things that
we're gonna be like be learning as we go
and hopefully between those who advises
and the people who contact us were genuinely interested
the conversations will be healthy and very positive an open-ended
in we're looking at this entire package
as a long-term opportunity we have
resources for at least 10 years
again and so we have four to take our time but on the other hand
we all want to waste time to him now you mention student so I mention students
are are quite important
yes to this your speaking of doctoral students
to an academic program Rezai in law and
cognate right social saying we've talked about graduate students
I in the early conceptualization this program
it was principally perhaps even entirely law
and it was presumed it would be el amor PhD students in law
as many might know
but not everyone will realize you can pursue an lol
or a PhD in law without an undergraduate law degree
you don't have to be a lawyer and there are people on faculty
at law schools who don't have undergraduate la degrees no practice law
but our legal scholars
right I and just as I was
the referring earlier to option is for faculty
four dis to come who do not come out the disciplines
in law but see advantage to learning
law or may already have some large parties that they want to
pursue further our interest is attracting
exceptionally strong graduate students
likely the majority of them police initially will come from law faculties
but many other may come out have is the school's
schools international fares graduate diplomas
partners a political science or economics on
or one might imagine
even in the humanities because been social property
issues and digital media where
there's a lot of the interdisciplinary get going on so a PhD student in English
literature but it actually works
through the digital media process might have an interest in this
because I've intellectual property law related to
these new forms have a communication
now we're not a degree-granting program we don't give credit
but we do have this unique opportunity
a funding graduate students for shorter or longer periods of time
how can we make it attractive
we're really targeting graduate students who either at this
who are at this stage in their graduate work that they see advantage
and can afford terms a time to take maybe six months or take but take a year
away from their normal course of work
to do focus research being mentored by
a research fellow at CG in the law program
and in order to make this more attractive are intense
is to work with every university that is interested
to arrange a partnership
so that a stint calms and
would be supervised not only by
the person at CG but would be co supervised
by the person in his or her
program whether it's in law or a PhD program in about the big register
and so the work that would be done would be Co organized
Co reviewed Co assessed by the CG individual
and by the fact the member at the home university and then it's
really a relationship between the student and his or her home university
do they get credit for it to the diskette to the get
acknowledged
we're gonna be providing financial assistance that allows the student to
take some time
out up the normal graduate program if they wish to get credit for that effort
that's between the student and the University and we're happy to provide
the kinds I love credentialing in terms of
detailed critique at the paper proper report
proper assessment and our hope is that
our research fellows will collaborate
and cooperate with the faculty met member so this is a win-win for everyone
I think this is unique I don't know
anywhere else in Canada that this opportunity
is afforded and I would expect within a year to
this kind of opportunity will be available to any graduate student
weather in law or some other graduate faculty at any university in Canada
and depending on how that goes my hope is it will be available to students
outside of Canada
we're already getting expressions of interest
from Canadian graduate students abroad in I see no reason why
I'm in time and hopefully not very long
after we've launched all this I'm our program will be available to to those
students
again the evaluation will be done on
the merits of the proposal the ability
a CG to have the right person in place to
supervise and mentor that student and the cooperation that student supervisor
in agreement that students home program
that this is a worthwhile thing I dad one other point one of the reasons the
student might come here
rather than remaining I am in the law program or the PhD program political
science or environmental studies whatever it may be
is because the break they would get when they come here will be an opportunity
not only to do
one-on-one mentoring an intensive research project
that would contribute to their graduate degree
research but we have an explicit commitment
to do research that is both scholarly sound
but policy-relevant apply
and and that remains unusual within most graduate programs
so we want to ensure that people come through our
are program do have that sense
that what they're working on can make a difference in the public to me
a good be back one last time what they would do it your watching or listening
to inside the issues the CG online podcast
look for a set siege online .org on Facebook
on Twitter and on YouTube
welcome back so I'm as one of the attractions in this program is that
people who come into it
will be rubbing shoulders with people that they might not otherwise
rub shoulders with and and do so in a fairly intense way
so the against as part of the design is it that you're not only have academics
and students but you'll have practitioners and officials
exactly from there we've already
just few day since the public announcement reached out
to more than two dozen of Canada's leading law firms
that are recognized I'll
having experts
in their practices that covers so many areas that we're interested in
we've informed colleagues in provincial governments
in the federal government and we're reaching out to international
organizations
our hope is that with the first again I say
your day 18 months we will
be housing our program not only with people coming out to the academic
communities
but coming are the active practitioner world's so
one could imagine Department of Justice
but one could also imagine
that there are people dealing with seventies major legal
issues within the department for fares with the National Defence
with the end Environment Canada I am
in industry
at the provincial level as well in
all the sectors certainly international institutions
we've already had some on choir is a V interest
from people in the UN system I expect
it will broaden other areas and we're in touch with them
so again if this goes well and if we can help people a range reserve absence for
instance
from their current employment where they could come to CG for
up to three years
we have a full complement it should be a very healthy an exciting mix
have people from a number of different
professional areas all having in common
expertise in relevant areas international they will see be providing
publication support
for PBS we have in our a budget
not only opportunities to provide salaries for research fellows
scholarships for students but I'm to underwrite modest research projects
to assist in going out in securing external
of on financial support for research projects
and CG has an exceptionally strong public affairs
department which
handles everything from the kind of thing we're doing here
through print media and we
we publish high quality research papers
now we're now into book publishing
we have policy briefs we have a blog all these
vehicles all these instruments communication and dissemination
will be available to anyone affiliated with
this new CG program we have a peer review process
so that we can assure ourselves
and assure are readership that the materials that we send out are
high quality are recognized by between experts
as worthwhile so I think now
we're in a very good place not only to launch the program
but to see it sustain and grow and
to be tracked no reason I get questions about this program
is because people often have difficult time distinguishing CG from the boss Lee
school
which I was the former director up have you had conversations with the
current director boss is cool about opportunities to
synergize the new international research program with of the electorate
I have and when you were in that position I conversations with the UN
the anticipation for this program and I think there is a doozy SM
I 10 marvelous things that could have all
is that as we build with in CT our capacity
it could for the Balsillie School the opportunity to invite some these fellows
to teach a seminar to give lectures
to perhaps even have and check status so they could
Co supervise graduate students where the marvelous things for the bus silly
school
it will it could emerge as not only
one of Canada's premier schools international affairs
but unique in having a real capacity in
a range varies international law which
I'm a capacity which is sorely lacking in most
graduate schools international fares not just in Canada but in the United States
and overseas
so I'm hoping that through are very healthy partnership
with are two universities here inner-city Waterloo and Wilfrid Laurier
University
that as this program gets underway we will find
a lot of opportunities for cooperation and collaboration
to the benefit above all organizations amal animal its strength balsley school
on the research side as are topics such as international migration
and international human rights those are on the
immediate Lister the three areas that you're interested in concentrating on
but
down the road you could imagine I think these those are all imaginable
I'm I don't think those are the I mean I know those are the areas we're investing
in now
right but they're a magical especially if they merged organically out a
research projects
as I said you could start off in one that seems more
hard edge and suddenly you're into labor labor gets you into environmental
up Employment Standards a neck issue and human rights
I and you find when you speak to people who are really
on exceptionally good in their fields international law
they they may practice in what seems to be a relatively narrow area
but their breadth of knowledge is is even more
Press and they will therefore know how to make those connections
and that's will be looking for well it's an exciting opportunity not just for CG
but for
Canada and and the world and as you know I always been a supporter this idea and
it's just wonderful to see it
coming to fruition I imagine our viewers who watch this long
probably are seriously interested in finding out more information about the
program and the place to go is
WWW dot C G online done ***
and thank you for coming in and helping us understand this exciting venture
better and to our audience thanks for joining us and please join us again next
week
for another absurd inside the issues the CG online podcast
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