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Dr. Pedram: Hi, everybody. Dr. Pedram Shojai from Well.org, here with Dr. Sara Gottfried.
Welcome back. Dr. Sara: Hi, everybody.
Dr. Pedram: Hey. Today, we are doing a Halloween [event talk 00:00:14]. In the next few weeks,
weíre going to have lots and lots and lots of sugar thrown at our children and into our
communities. Thatís going to create a big huge sugar rush and an immune system dilemma
thatís then going to probably send us to cold and flu season. We want to talk about
this Oreo cookie studies that has come out and all these stuff hitting the news right
now because we figured itís probably pretty appropriate for where weíre at in the season.
Dr. Sara: Yeah. Who canít resist talking about a study of Oreos. Oreos are like Americaís
favorite cookie. Iím super excited to take on sugar and take on Oreos today.
Dr. Pedram: Yeah, absolutely. Actually yesterday morning, I had Mark. Iím in here in our office
and weíre filming an interview with him for our next movie. It was great hanging out with
him and his entire platform is built on sugar being the devil and some very interesting
things he had to say. Iíll kind of channel his spirit into this conversation a little
bit too because Iím just kind of still basking in the sunshine of his brilliance.
Dr. Sara: Channel away. I love a good channeling of Mark Hyman. Iím very excited about that.
Dr. Pedram: Cool. Why donít we get into the study real quick and kind of just lay it out
for what we want to do. Do you want to take the rest on this one, just tell about what
they talked about and what they looked at in the study?
Dr. Sara: Sure. Iím going to give maybe the headlines and then if you want to get more
granular, you could do that. This is a study that was just published showing that sugar
lights up the addictive part of the brain. Thatís where you have your pleasure sensor.
This is added to a lot of other literature that we have showing the same thing. This
one happened to be in rats but itís really interesting because they looked at Oreos.
In fact they found that rats are similar to humans and that they like to eat the white
part first, the part in the middle thatís super rich in sugar.
They found that the sugar of Oreos lights up the part of the brain like crack does,
like ***, like morphine. Do you want to get more granular? I want to say first and
foremost Oreos are like crack. Dr. Pedram: Oreos are like crack Ö This is
the part that we have not looked at in enough detail as a society. Sugar has become a part
of our culture. It has become something that is just a foregone conclusion. You add sugar
to every meal. Weíre talking about hundreds of pounds of sugar compared to our Paleo ancestors
that we give very, very little sugar. It was a treat. The reason why we process sugar the
way we do as a species is because itís so rare in its natural occurrence in the world
out there when we used to forge for it, that when we got it was like sugar on top. It was
immediately be converted into fat and stored as energy for later because we hit the jackpot.
Energy isnít that easy to find out there for our hunter-gatherer ancestors.
Now, weíre going from very little sugar everyday to several hundred pounds a year. Whatís
happening is the system has absolutely no idea how to deal with it and itís storing
it as fat. As if thatís not bad enough with our diabesity crisis and all things that are
happening. Now, we are starting to look at these studies, these imaging of the brain
and weíre finding that itís 10 times as addictive as ***. That is just staggering.
Itís staggering to see this number, 10 times more addictive than ***.
If someone were to say offer *** to your child, you would call the cops. You would
basically stand in front of them and give your life to protect your child from this
drug pusher. However we are willingly going to Costco and Walmart and Target and buying
the sugar treats that our kids have been trained to ask for by their TV cartoons in the morning
in the commercials and loading them up in the shopping cart and sending the kids home
with this addictive crack *** substitute, which is not only making them obese but getting
them hooked on something thatís absolutely not good for them.
Dr. Sara: Beautifully stated sir. I donít have a ton to add for that particular piece.
I agree that this is the elephant in the room and we need to take it on. This is the big
food industry creating a bad neighborhood in our bodies. We have got to turn this around.
In fact I would even like for us to talk about going rogue this Halloween. What are some
of the ways that we can go rogue? Before we do that, I want to also say that
even though this isnít rats, this has been demonstrated in humans as well. In fact there
was study earlier this year from David Ludwig at Harvard and his colleagues where he showed
that obese men, when you give them a milkshake that has a high amount of sugar compared to
a milkshake that has the same calories but a lower amount of sugar, the high-sugar milkshake
lights up the same part of the brain, the pleasure center, that place where addiction
happens. For those of you who are saying, ìYeah. Fine.
Iím not a rat.î Well it turns out that this is proven in humans as well and it also turns
out that our nervous system is kind of rat-like. Weíve got something like 70% homology with
rats. We want to pay attention to this. Dr. Pedram: Yeah, absolutely. People see that
and they say, ìWell this someone doesnít relate to me.î Itís kind of like saying,
ìSomeone in Africa is starving. That doesnít impact me.î The fact of the matter is we
are a global organism and people are people. We need to care for them. Weíre talking about
rats. Weíre talking about mammals. We are not, as much as we want to think so highly
of ourselves, we are not too far from these little folks in terms of biology, our physiology,
our neurology and the way our systems work. The reason we do it on rats is because we
canít do these studies on people ethically. However on the other side of the equation
and I donít know how else to say this than to kind of be somewhat flipping is we have
been rats in a very big industry-wide experiment where the scientists that have been hired
by these companies, the food companies the companies that are out there making the junk
food for our kids, these scientists will lay out a bunch of cookies on the table. Theyíll
wait for you to taste them and find the one you canít stop eating and theyíll say, ìAha!
We hit in. What do we put in there? Whatís the secret sauce? This ingredient right here,
this formula is working because this guy canít stop eating and thatís what we want.î These
things have been engineered and people will willingly show up and be test subjects in
these stuff because Lord knows we all got to make rent. People will show up and do this
stuff. A lot of times, I remember in UCLA, these
guys would show up and do all kinds of weird experiments and get college kids to volunteer
to be part of them because letís face it, college kids are broke. For a little bit of
money, human rats show up. They do these tests and these companies have really figured out
how to leverage our consciousness, how to leverage the way our brains work to make us
beg for more of those products. Whatís happening is now weíre seeing not only the addictive.
We talked about this I think in our last episode, just the compromise that happens to the immune
system that is creating all kinds of challenges for immunity and let alone the caloric storage
issues that end up around the hips, around waist that we call fat and the obesity crisis.
Do you have anything else to add to that because Iím about to turn a little turn here based
on what Ö Dr. Sara: Well, I always have things to add.
Let me just say a few things briefly. I want to like this to the immune system and also
to cortisol, the bad boyfriend hormone that I love to talk about. When you eat an Oreo
and your blood sugars spike and influence spikes, what happens is you also have cortisol
as part of that dance. If youíre a clinically stressed person and by the way, high cortisol
makes you crave sugar like crazy, you have this vicious cycle happening where you just
keep storing fat especially as your belly. I also wanted to say that for a lot of years,
decades really, people have dismissed the idea of food addiction or sugar addiction.
They said, ìWell, itís a behavior. Thatís a soft addiction. Itís not the same as a
hard addiction to *** or crack of heroine.î The truth is this study shows us that sugar
is a chemical. It is a hard addiction. Itís not just a behavioral addiction. I was hoping
we could also talk a little bit about some of the signs that you are sugar-addicted.
What was the turn you wanted to take, Pedram? Dr. Pedram: Yeah. Iím not going to take that
turn until we talk about these signs because Iím about to get crazy on you.
Dr. Sara: So exciting! Dr. Pedram: Letís jump into the signs.
Dr. Sara: Okay. I love the Mars and Venus thing that we did last time. I thought we
could just talk through some of the signs that youíre addicted to sugar and Iíll kick
off here. Dr. Pedram: Go ahead.
Dr. Sara: One of the first signs is that the day comes to an end. Maybe youíre finished
with your work. Itís 6 PM. All you can think about is a glass of wine or a cocktail. Thatís
the classic sign of sugar addiction because alcohol, especially cocktails and wine, are
a bit like liquid sugar. There are some differences but thatís one of the signs I see like crack
does at people who are addicted to sugar. Dr. Pedram: All right. Volley. Back to Pedram.
I would say one of the signs is you have finished dinner and you cannot not have dessert, because
what happens is your insulin levels are way off. You have been sugar addicted for such
a long time that the body doesnít know how to compensate for a proper amount of sugar
versus a load that comes in. A lot of times this will happen after a carbohydrate-rich
meal but carbohydrates will lead to sugar and table sugar is added to so much of the
food that we eat that thatís one of the things that I always look for. Do you need a sweet
after meal? Then we are talking about insulin resistance and a whole other facet of this
sugar addiction but itís a big one. Dr. Sara: Thatís beautiful. In fact, I would
say itís the number one problem for people that I work with, that kind of sugar craving
right after a meal. I have some people who say, ìI hear jungle drums. Like I need to
get some chocolate in my mouth after a meal or I canít function or I have brain fog.î
I want to add in just a quick little science metric as another sign and that is we have
new evidence showing that if you have a fasting blood sugar that is greater than 86, thatís
a sign that you have insulin resistance and diabesity. Diabesity, Mark Hyman describes
so beautifully it affects one in two Americans. Itís that pre-diabetes and diabetes signs
of insulin resistance where your cells in your body become numb to insulin. You want
to have your fasting blood sugar between 70 and 85. You can also do a postprandial. You
want that to be less than 120. Dr. Pedram: Fantastic. A postprandial means
right after you ate. Itís once youíve eaten. Guys, thereís Hemoglobin A1C, thereís a
lot of things that we can look at right now to look at these predictors of this. As of
Eric Goldman yesterday, he wanted this but he coined from somebody and Iím ripping it
because I donít remember who he quoted it from but he said, ìItís not rocket surgery.î
Itís not rocket surgery. We know how to look at diabesity. We know the spectrum. We know
what is the likely indicator or the likely indicators are of how weíre going to get
in trouble here. We pretty much know who the culprits are in here. Sugar is like lined
up in that line up as a usual suspect and itís bad.
Before we leave this subject, one of the things, Iím going to flip the Mars and Venus on you
here. I get a lot of females patients with Candida problems. They have migraines when
theyíre not having sugar often enough and all that. That is also on the spectrum. If
youíre having yeast overgrowth, youíre having Candida problems and youíre getting these
migraines, you say, ìOh my god. I got to eat. My blood sugar just crashed.î Often
times they donít even recognized that itís blood sugar that crushes but itís this unstable
blood sugar issue that they have this yoyo with all day. A lot of times that has to deal
with sugar addiction and cravings and the system being read towards high-calorie , high-output
food that isnít really nourishing and is just keeping them in this. Itís just like
deficit spending. Itís just charging everything on the credit card to get through the day.
Dr. Sara: Beautiful. I love it when you flip the Mars and Venus. Iím so glad you brought
up Candida. Here I am the board-certified gynecologist not talking about Candida but
the truth is, there is such a long list of signs that you are a sugar addict or you have
some problems related to your blood sugar. In fact, maybe weíll do a future segment
specifically on that. Dr. Pedram: I think we should. I think thereís
enough people that suffer from this out there. I think between the two of us, we can have
a lot of fun. Weíve been just having so much fun without bringing our guest on yet. I canít
wait to Ö Dr. Sara: Yeah, where are those guests that
we keep talking about? Dr. Pedram: Weíre trying to figure it out.
By the way, for you guys, in the next few episodes of this, Iím actually going to be
up with Dr. Sara. Weíre going to record a number of these. I get to hang out with Sara
at her house and weíre going to film a number of these with some special guests and have
a lot of fun. Dr. Sara: There will be dancing.
Dr. Pedram: There will be dancing because weíre actually going to be in the same room.
Weíre going to have a good time. One other thing, in a few minutes we have left, but
I really want to bring this up because this has been on my mind since I talked to Mark
yesterday is he had mentioned that a lot of these sugar thing was a product of the early
days of slavery. Because there was this sugar boom, we all of a sudden went over and by
ìweî we mean the original colonials here went over and started negotiating with people
in Africa, getting slaves, bringing them over to work these sugar plantations.
Sugar effectively created this ugly system of slavery and that left scars in our country
for generations after that. It became this thing that then became this polarization of
our society and just doing these yucky things. You look back at whatís happening now with
this addiction to sugar that weíre finding in the brain. Itís just like, ìOh my god.
The legacy of the slavery thing has just not even ended. Now we are a slave to this sugar
that brought us over slaves in this first place.î Itís just this whole really complicated
mess. I would like to put out there that this Halloween
what weíd like for you guys to do is break your slavery addiction to sugar. This stuff
is just horrible. The kids shouldnít be eating it. We really need to come up with other metrics
for establishing happiness on this holiday that is a ton of fun. The kids love it. You
play dress up but then you go out and bullying yourself. What do you say, doc?
Dr. Sara: Well, I havenít heard that connection to the slavery trade and this very shameful
time in our history here in the United States. Iím really grateful that you shared that
via Mark Hyman. What a sweetie pie! Dr. Pedram: Yeah, thanks Doc.
Dr. Sara: I love how much you just connected the dots for us and you said the sugar plantations,
they got staffed with these slaves that we had no business taking from Africa and how
we have embedded that. Weíve internalized the slavery to sugar. I really appreciate
that. I feel like sugar is the enemy. Weíve got to get really clear about how addictive
it is and how to go rogue. I was thinking just as we start to finish up here, we could
give some suggestions for how to go rogue this Halloween. What do you think?
Dr. Pedram: I love it. Letís do it, because you just canít tell people you canít do
things without telling them things to do in their stead. Letís start with maybe fruit.
I know itís not cool but the old fruit snack work really well. One year we even did raspberries
and blueberries and the kids just looked at us like we were on crack but you know what,
they were delicious and served its purpose. They came and they went and it was great.
Sometimes we even give toys instead, things that we find enriching instead of a candy
because a candy you eat, you get high and you crash, you get sick and itís over. The
toy is a gift that keeps on giving. Dr. Sara: I like that. I have to say though
weíre going to do a little point-counterpoint here. As a parent, except if that can be your
house, thereís no way I would take raspberries and blueberries from as stranger.
Dr. Pedram: I know. Dr. Sara: That being the case, Iím always
trying with my kids to figure out the sugar alternative. I like to give out tattoos, natural
tattoos. I like to give out other things besides candy. If I give something sweet, itís going
to be a really wholesome bar, something thatís gluten-free that doesnít have sugar, that
stabilizes blood sugar. Those are some of the things I tend to do. I also want to bring
up a JJ *** tip. I just got this from her. I kind of like it. She said, ìWhen youíre
buying your Halloween candy, if youíre going to dance with the devil, buy the candy that
you donít like because then it leads to you not going to be tempted to eat it.î Thatís
another tip for going rogue. Dr. Pedram: Thatís fun because the kids basically
have these as tradable commodities. If you give them stuff next year they might not even
come to your house. Dr. Sara: Well, we want to spread the message,
right? I mean another thing that I love in our community is that we have a local dentist
who gives money to kids who bring their bags of candy in. Usually it doesnít happen until
November 1st but I love that idea of preventing the cavities and teaching kids the importance
of limiting the amount of sugar they get. Dr. Pedram: I love that. The cost becomes
one of price. One year we messed around, we gave away these cheap but effective jump ropes
because we encourage the kids to do exercise and play. We found out that that was pretty
cool, little Frisbees. Again, itís just how much youíre willing to spend and all that
but maybe thatís weíll do together. Iíll go start finding cheap stuff that would make
things happy that you guys can replace with stuff. Maybe in our next show or something
weíll talk about it and figure that out, because I think itís time to really revolutionize
the way we look at this holiday and what weíre doing to our kids and really the mental slavery
that weíre becoming so aware of now through these FNRI studies that is just showing these
things that light up the brain like a Christmas tree. Guys, parents, this is not cool.
Dr. Sara: Itís not cool. We got a model, the Right Behavior for our Kids. I have to
say the jumping rope, I like that a lot better than the raspberries and the blueberries so
count me in. Weíre going to get some jump ropes thatís not going to disrupt your endocrine
system. Dr. Pedram: Totally. Good luck. Thatís the
problem, right? When you go out and get stuff thatís cheap, itís usually made in China.
If itís made in China, it usually polluted the river and already choked out some poor
Chinese citizen with its emission. This is the world we live in. Weíre trying to navigate
those waters and figure out the best way to do this for you guys. Weíre in your corner.
Weíre here to help. If you have questions wherever you are seeing this, consuming this,
shoot us your questions. Weíre here to support you and really look at what you can do because
look, this is just Dr. Sara and I hanging out talking about this, telling you guys the
science. Weíd love for you guys to come back with
ideas that you do for Halloween that are non-sugar solutions. Letís have a contest. Iíll give
our $400 package of our Vitality Challenge with Cleanse away to the winner of the contest
on our side. Just because I want to incentivize you guys to really kind of bring up some really
good ideas and letís come up with some stuff that can help us all as a community.
Dr. Sara: I love it. Okay. Iím going to throw in a copy of my book. Iíll also throw in
another program. Iím not sure what it is yet but I love how you just described that.
Oreos are crack. We got to turn this around We want to hear your ideas, not just for Halloween.
We want to hear those too but how do you navigate this problem with sugar? How do you navigate
this enemy that we are facing that is like crack?
Dr. Pedram: Thatís it. You guys send it. Letís regroup in a couple of weeks once Halloween
has come and gone. Letís look at the best ideas and whoever wins it, weíre happy to
have you on the show. Weíre happy to see through you to kind of talk about what that
is because what we really want to do is figure out solutions together because weíre all
in this together and weíre doing this for our childrenís children. Enough is enough
with this sugar slavery thing. We really got to do something about it. It starts right
here right now. Dr. Sara: Love it. Can I give one last tip?
Dr. Pedram: A hundred percent. Dr. Sara: Okay. Take some fiber on Halloween.
Before you head out trick or treating with your kids or by yourself, get a dose of fiber
somewhere around 5 grams. You just want to make sure that youíre not upping your fiber
too fast. Overall, women need 35 to 45 grams a day, men 40 to 50 but fiber will help you
stabilize your blood sugars so that the candy doesnít hit you as hard.
Dr. Pedram: Beautiful. I love it. If you can have some sort of healthy lipids, some sort
of good fat, avocados, something before then, you satiate your appetite so that way when
youíre hungry, youíre not taking down four Snickers bars just to get you through. Thereís
a lot of ways to deal with sugar cravings. Weíll talk about that in a future show as
well. Dr. Sara: All right. Thank you so much. Super
fun today. Dr. Pedram: Love it. Dr. Sara, I always love
chatting with you about this and Iím really excited to hear our audiencesí feedback on
what theyíre doing and letís get that out there guys. Letís do this together.
Dr. Sara: Thatís right. Iím going to give out Energy. I think that will fit with the
contest throw-down price that you just gave. Iím going to give them my $500 program on
Energy. Dr. Pedram: Love it! Woah! All right, you
guys. We both just laid out our big guns. We want the winner to really walk away winning
on this and with winning, not only winning these wonderful things that weíre offering
but you are winning by helping parents and people all around the world have better solutions
to keeping our kids and our families healthy. Dr. Sara: Right on. Thanks everybody. See
you next time. Dr. Pedram: Right on. Thanks. See you next
week. Dr. Sara: Talk about telomeres and what they
mean, why should we care about them, what do you think?
Dr. Pedram: A hundred percent. This stuff has been all over the news, all over the media
Ö