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let's talk to Dennis Campbell dennis is editor in chief UK progressive magazine
he also hosts worldview with Dennis Campbell on YouTube check it out you to
dot com slash world if you show
Dennis we've been talking about for days the detention for nine hours at Heathrow
Airport
%uh David Miranda who is of course the partner Glenn Greenwald
who is in turn the journalist responsible for
a reviewing in the guardian and washington Post
the leaks presented to him by Edward snowden so first let's start at the
beginning
what's the kinda legal justification under which Miranda was detained at
Heathrow
well as using his name is Miranda and we don't confuse anybody with the Miranda
rights that one as in the USA
here surrender was detained while he was in transit which is kind of interesting
because
other Russian government of course said that because that would Snowden was in
transit
he was not officially on the ground in in the country
they could not detain him in any way %uh if you look at your and he did not know
actually enter the United Kingdom in this is under
many established treaties but yet they decided to detain him and we have
something called the Terrorism Act 2000 up
I don't know that much about the act but I know that that is the basis upon which
they decided to detain and question him
and they can do this for up to nine hours without leveling a charge
and usually that gives the people an opportunity that are on the prosecution
side
to determine if there's probable cause and then to you know
actually go through the formal charging process %uh
it very much seems as though in them the use if this
particular statute was a complete perversion of justice there is
absolutely no call
for Miranda to be held only because he is the
partner Glenn Greenwald who happened to be the person to whom
and what's known gave the infamous leaks information and data
we've been talking a lot about this and I keep having a number of different
thoughts about it and I'm curious what your reaction would be to the kind of
hypothetical i posed on yesterday's show which is
we all understand that American and British intelligence agencies are in a
complete panic they weren't able
to get a hold of Edward snowden he now has a year of asylum in Russia
they're worried about what documents may still be kinda out there but yet
unreleased by media so there's this kind of panic and we kinda agree
that the detention have Miranda seemed pointless and it also seemed arbitrary
and it seemed almost like a revenge detention
however I want to pose a an alternative which I post yesterday to you
let's say that Glenn Greenwald had been in touch not with Edward snowden
up but with Osama bin Laden and I make the comparison not because I think the
two are equivalent but simply because they're both individuals wanted by
American and British authorities in that case
let's say we didn't know where bin Laden was we were looking for bin Laden
it was after 9/11 but before he was caught a and and killed
and Glenn Greenwald had interviewed bin Laden would have been reasonable then
would there be the same
outrage at stopping Glenn Greenwald partner because hey
he might know where Osama bin Laden its would it be the same or would there be a
different a standard applied
not a hundred percent sure david i mean it is a hypothetical and I think
probably
you know what you would see happen is that people would be a lot more
sympathetic to
that detention in the hopes of getting more information about
who was the world's greatest errors to the time I think the the problem we're
having right now is that
so many lives have been told that so many levels and so many laws have been
broken
by governments that so many levels that it is now
extraordinarily difficult to practice the arts and science and journalism
anywhere in this world I mean if you can be detained randomly it's no different
I in my opinion than being stopped and Friston New York Street
because black complexion happens to be a bit darker than yours
or you know there's a olov
up things that are being used to to detain
reporters to grab information from sources to tap them in so many ways I
wouldn't be surprised
at all if this conversation is appearing somewhere in langley and then being
stored somewhere
because there is that huge fear that information is going to be transmitted
doesn't make it right now I think that's the big issue and what we've seen happen
over the last several months is that there's been
more and more attention now paid to the point where even public opinion polls
are coming back saying
that you knows no snowden is not a terrorist he is indeed a whistleblower
compare and contrast that to when he first went missing
you know the oh my God my hair's on fire fear
up the United States government people now beginning to pay attention and
having a dialogue
I like an awful lot to what's happening in the fracking debate
you know for the longest time governments and an oil companies had
their way
now with what's been going on down and I'll come here in southeast England
other places the activists are starting to get the message
out I think once the message in the information come out
people conscience such as you are I the people that watch this program
sit there and say wait a minute something is not right why the
overreaction me Bradley Manning got 35 years in prison today whether you agree
or disagree with him
that's a huge overreach for what he did if you compare back
to the nineteen seventies when daniel ellsberg essentially the same thing with
a smaller amount of papers
well I tend to agree with you the problem I'm having is when I
say to myself what is the standard by which we decide
whether it is okay or not to stop the partner if someone because they may have
information that while we disagree
that it really would be critical to the safety of the United States
from the point of view of the united states they think that Edwards known as
a security risk and what I think back to Dennis is
immediately after 9/11 Patriot Act all sorts of laws
there was very little outrage some libertarians we're happy the occasional
liberal
but by and large we wanted to get the people who did that to the United States
and we were willing to accept much more now that we're further from that
it seems more distant and the feelings have changed but my concern is
should do the process it be dictated by how
recent the last act that that horrified us
happens to be what you know and and I would I would argue that that that the
Patriot Act and several these
other you know basically surrendering their liberties
happens in such a way that there was absolutely
I'll no discussion no debate and
nobody even knew what was in the Patriot Act until it was done
but could not be argued that it was because nobody really cared they heard
00 stuff to stop this from happening again that sounds good
yeah well that's that's the argument that is the standard fear-based argument
that is what people will do
to keep you afraid to keep you under their control me that's that's
the established fact you know no matter what incident no matter what war
situation you look at
if people are sewn with the idea of fear
and the possibility it can happen again they'll do anything I mean I've been
listening to commentators on the left
and I've been absolutely astounded that they think it's okay
to go after journalists to go after people like snowden to go after anybody
snow to break the law but he's not a traitor and he's not a hero
I think we need to get real clear on our definitions as thanks
there is so much gray in this entire situation
I'm not going to sit here in judge other him or the government or anything
else beyond what I just said here because it makes no sense to be doing
you know this black white left right judgment all the way
you know like lemmings over the edge of the cliff this is why we're seeing the
government about to shut down in your country
no question about it and as we know corporate media here does not really
like
debates in shades of gray they don't make for good rating so that also is
gonna tend to frame things
as black and white but it's a fascinating discussion Dennis Campbell
editor in chief love UK progressive magazine don't miss world view with
Dennis Campbell
YouTube dot com slash worldview show and we'll talk to Dennis next week after his
vacation Dennis thanks for being on today
a.m. thank you and best of luck with your move upcoming we're gonna miss
talking to you from that
causal spot there in massachusetts yes we will have a more news about the move
coming up soon we'll take a break and be back after this