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>> Good morning. I am--I'm a member of Baobab Humanity Initiative which is a local grassroots
humanitarian organization, a non-profit organization which focuses on education, cultural exchange
between cultural exchange between Western Africa and United States and Human Development
Projects. And this morning we are privilege to have with us Antonio Gutierrez from Northern
Togo. Originally, Antonio is from Spain where he studied history, philosophy, theology and
geography and he was a teacher for over ten years. And he has spent the past 20 years
in western Africa. He has devoted his life to the people there working with communities
who lack basic living supplies, the primary one being lack of access to clean water. He
is a living success story about how to empower impoverish people to work together to improve
their living conditions. He has--he has overcome political and cultural hurdles to accomplish
projects with far-reaching benefit for many people. He dresses like the people he lives
with. He speaks five languages and he's learning another. And he's adept at identifying viable
solutions to complex challenges. So with that, I would like to remind you that you may feel
free to ask questions during the talk, he'll be happy to answer them during the talk. And
after the talk anyone who would like to join him and a couple other employees for lunch
you are welcome to do so. And now I present, Antonio who will talk about "Thirst, how to
dig a well". >> GUTIERREZ: Okay. Thank you to you. And,
you know, for me speaking in different languages from time to time has really had--when I arrived
in here sometimes I have a hard time just to understanding the way you speak because
you speak very quickly. Anyway, I think have leapt from 10,000 years ago just to come to
this situation today and is not 10,000 years ago, no, its something that I'm living today,
but I'm living over there the same--the people use to live maybe 10,000 years ago in here,
you know. The difference is, is really important but for me what's happening. And--I went to
Africa and when you arrive there you realize that the way in which you think and the way
things are happening are not same the thing. Your reaction and the reaction of people is
not the same. Then, then you have to sit, you have to stay with them, and you can't
be as quickly as you are in here because usually you have a brand new formula when racing car
and they are on foot. Unless you are--your formula one racing car and work with them
you can do anything. Then the first thing you have to try to do is to try to understand
them, to comprehend why they do this and this and this and after you realize you can't work
with them. What I do I try to do just to see what they need, and after to answer to the
needs they can have. And not only is not possible you have to say I give you, I give. That doesn't
work. The way is you have a need we'll try to see it, we'll try to see together how we
can deal with this thing. It doesn't matter what, digging a well, building a school, building
a bridge or--it doesn't matter what. You have to stay with them and to make them conscious
that it is there problem not my problem. Then just to help them to grow in order to solve
their own problems. Well, there are so many images but, you know, when I arrived in here
I've signed something just saying you can use the images. They are so surprised when
I take an image and after I'm going to pass them with my computer, can you imagine the
only computer all around is mine. Can you image things like that? And--but what is the
problem? That people over there can't read or write. Then what can we do? You know they
are one end, the other end, maybe today we are going to be able to approach something
and try to help those people. Why, because I think many times we are thinking about ourselves
and we are not very conscious about how many things we can do for the others. And maybe
today I can be the voice of those who cannot say anything, who have no voice, just to speaking
to those who are in the other end. Well, to dig a well is something very important for
them. Can you imagine people walk three--for miles to look for water? Well, sorry I said
people, no, women. Women would walk--then when I went to, to do to dig a well, first
thing I say, "Everybody in the village has to be present" why? Nobody can tell me I don't
drink water, nobody can tell me I don't have to shower a day. Even--you know, a shower
is not is something like that, its bucket in a glass and you're going to pour water
but everybody needs to eat. And you know first thing what I do is a meeting, a meeting with
everybody, with everybody. How many times; one, two three--10 tens times till the moment
that I realized that they are ready to collaborate, that they have realize that they have that
its their problem, and after I try to look for the place. How do I do to look for the--the
place? Well if I tell you the reality I didn't want to believe it. I went to my country and
I spoke to somebody who is a very good person to look for water. And I told him "You know,
this year I have tribe in four different wells, I would have gone over thirty meters," thirty
meters is how many feet? >> A 100 feet only.
>> GUTIERREZ: A 100 feet and I didn't find water enough, he told me "Its up to you to
do it" I was so surprised that he repeat it "Its up to you to do it" well, I can tell
you today is up to me to do it. >> [LAUGH].
>> GUTIERREZ: With this I try to look for water. This past season I marked 19 different
places and in all the 19 different places we found water. Funny. Yes but it's the reality.
I don't know how but I know that in here if I want to know where is the water you know
I just ask, "Is there a water in here?" All right, you know, then I try to say, "which
place is the water?" >> [INDISTINCT]
>> GUTIERREZ: Over there? I can go over there and I can find just the place. You know sometimes
you don't see it why because it's me who has the, the, the, the, the, the [SPEAKING IN
FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> A camera?
>> GUTIERREZ: Camera. Sorry. You know, I'm looking for the right word. And sometimes
it's me who takes the photograph, people over there can't--don't know how to, to take them.
Then, you know, what's the problem? If I look for a machine and I come and I do every, all
the work they are not conscious and they are going to be a little child that this asking
for, I don't it's the way. If they say like this is it, look we are--we have two hands
and we are going to work together is the way. You know how they're digging? I have marked
the place and little by little I do teams, why? I ask all the people just to come and
after women, no they are not going to do the work now. The women are going to work after.
Then men are going to be there. Young people who can work are going to be there in teams
to work. But old people are going to be there just to control. You know, something--that
unless you know what is happening over there, you are going to make many mistakes, unless
you stay with them. Unless, you live with them and if you know their language is, the
dress I'm wearing is something funny for you I think, but it is the way in which people
dress over there. Then if they see a white person dressing like this, they says, "Oh,
he is with us." It's the way, you have to please them. And it's the way to feel comfortable
with them. And it's the way in which they are going to accept you. If you speak their
language it's the most incredible thing. I remember once, I use to go to a village regularly
to pray. And one day an old person, an old man, while he has some--doing something and
asked me, "What do you do, in here? When you come here why do you come?" And I said, "I
come just to pray with people." And, you know, he told me, "I'm going to pray in order you
will be as old as I am." Are you surprised, but I realize when they--when a person say
something like this he is expecting an answer from me and I say, what can I answer? And
I say, "It's good. Well, I'm going to pray in order you will see me being as old as you
are." He was so please that they could understand that from that day on he didn't stay there,
if he sees me coming he was--just getting up and come and to say me hello. From then
on were very, very good friends. You know it's the way you have to deal with them, you
have to understand, to comprehend their way and then they are going to let you know how
you can work with them. I'm just speaking--and, you know, how they are digging. And how they
work by hand, why? Because machines are not there, that is not a possibility. If you do
something for them they are not going to be conscious, too aware that is their problem.
I usually go with a--with a bottle. And I say, "You have problems with water?" "Yes,
we have" I don't have problems you know, I have bottle in my car always. But it is not
just to disturb you it is just to let you know that in the same way that they have I
expect one day--you are going to be able to tell me we don't have problems with water
you know. And then I'm just thinking there several steps, the first one is to find water
to drink. But after is just to think how. If the rainy seasons is four months who working
for months can eat twelve? Then if I can find water enough just to do gardens and to grow
vegetables they are going to improve their foods and then things are going to be better.
You know, you are looking at these but I can tell you every detail even the name of this
people, how I have worked together with them, how I have meeting, I have meetings with them.
And you try to take all the things that had happening. You see where he is sleeping? Can
we do something like that? There are so many, so many funny different things that--but,
you know, you get used--you get use to them and they get use to you. For me, one day I
remember it was, it was really touching when I was with the--a group of leaders that everybody
could understand French and I'm working with them and I was telling them, "You know I don't
how to deal with you. I tried to do it this and this and this and this and I can't find
an answer. And, you know, I like you to," but, and in the same moment somebody told
to his neighbor in his language "This guy he loves us." I was so touched that they wouldn't
say a word, after they say "Go, go ahead," "No, it's okay." Today I've understood all
that I wanted. Why? Because I was just pushing them but they were telling me is not possible
for us to go quick just and I know I have to stay with them. I have to take my time
with them. Because usually they say, "You have the word but we have the time." Is different,
is a difference. And unless you try to come to them and to stay with them and to live
with them and sure love them. A good work is really hard to be done. This is the rainy
season finished and what a school, what happened? I went to a--to inaugurate a well, it is about
two miles away from here, what happened? 70 children that came I was, just saying them
hello because I try to make it adult conscious that what that that the important thing is
the children. They don't pay attention about the children. Then 70 children couldn't answer
to my greeting. I was so surprise that--what's happening? The nearest school is four miles
away. Who among you can walk four miles in the morning and four miles back in the evening?
Then what I would try to do is have meeting with the parents and just make them very conscious
that they have to send the children to school. And that's the beginning of a school. See--go
ahead, I think that there are--you know, what's that? I tried--over there. No desk, no tables
and no chairs, I tried to buy this wood is the place in which they are going to be able
to write. Because even if I can do it, it's not good for me to do everything, its the
parents who must try to do it. And sometimes I have to wait, I have to make them do the
effort just to do it. See this is the classroom. When--this past week I was just passing in
here in the school, the children were very, very afraid. But I told them--I told them,
see? It's the way. It is way in which I try to deal with them and let them know that it
is their problem and it is them who can go ahead with the situation. See the table, can
you imagine the benches over there? It's funny but it is where they have a concert and you
know--over there this is before the children started to school, the parents were there.
We had several general meetings. This is the projects just to construct our school over
there. Class school maybe about 300 children, it's not $1,100. How much is the school in
here? After this I have a project about building a high school because they are many primary
school but we want to go ahead. It's going to be hard but well, we're there and we tried
to do our best. And, you know, I'm not just thinking the first thing about money or how
can--but I just come in here and I realize that maybe some many, among you can help me
if you are able, I, I'll be very pleased. After the general meeting they were out you,
as you see everybody is happy. The rainy season is finished but--that's the parking lot. The only--have you seen,
the only car is mine. But my car is sure is not for me, it's just because they need the
things that I have and the car lets me, just to be in here today, in the morning and the
afternoon another place and, and be in the other--in other cities. I think you know that
very near to the, very close to the school, I tried to look for the well. You see here
when I was just ready to come somebody, the director of our school came with a letter.
Just to ask what to build--to dig a well in his school. But he told me the other five,
six schools around have the same problem, they have build the school but no water then
you know this past season I, I was digging with 19 wells in 19 different places specially
thinking about the problem women have because it is up to women just to bring water into
the house. But well, in the same situation that the 19 we have already done the about
150 more only in the part is where I am but isn't there are many of the possibilities.
And--this three young people are the teacher. What was the problem? That when I wanted to
start the school I realize that people over there speak the language and then I couldn't
find any teacher from their language, then this teachers that they are going to teach
in French had to take a month class about in how no teachers, just to stay with people,
just to try to understand or to hear what people speak. A month before they have started
with children at the school in order--just to understand something because I live and
experienced it and it was really hard, I remember one teacher came to me, to ask just to help
them with the well and then when we have arranging things I told him "We have to change--to call
a general meeting for the all the parents." And he was just asking "Where can I find somebody
to translate it?" and I told him "Myself I can" "You can speak the language very here?"
"Yes." and he was so surprise when I speaking to the people in their language and they could
answer, he couldn't--he couldn't imagine things like that. But, you know, for me is clear,
a key is going to open a door with the language you can open the heart of people. And the
effort you do just to learn the local language is, is really important. Can you imagine your
kids at a school like in here? You know how I've told you that I come from 10,000 years,
you know the difference and you see no books, no books is a very big problem. I was just
telling to the kids "How many books do you have?" you see no books only the little black
board in which they write with a piece of chalk but is the, the way is would you find
over there and this would usually do, there's not a soap in which you can buy you know we
are, we are a doing a black board, how do you do it, yes. You have to deal with the
things you have and you have to try to solve the problem you are going to find over there.
This is a meeting with the--the one who are a leader of the parents. What do you have
to do, to choose those who can speak French, why? Because otherwise it's terrible that
you can't deal with them if they don't understand what you're speak. Over there is a French
speaking country and the official language is French. There are from time to time some
that can speak some English they have trouble maybe they have done many years, maybe Ghana
or maybe in Nigeria. But can you imagine that school? That's why I'm just thinking about
building a nice school. I have in here the project. Do you see the black board? Well
from time to time there are people that come around and visit and I use to take them you
know, see--in the beginning it was really funny because I use to arrive and say "Good
evening, how are you?" No answer, little by little you know when they start understanding
they are able just to raise their hands if they're, they're going to answer. The books
over there, the teacher's book and notebooks, okay and--see water? They come with water
from the house but from the house--sometimes they have walked three, four miles to look
for water. You know, different teachers in different classrooms and a ball. I was asking
the, the pupils in here you know what does mean to have a ball? The day I arrive with
that ball and everybody was passing like this yes touching the ball. It was for them--she
was--everybody was so pleased, so happy. Those books over there I was looking for they have
written in here, it is not allowed to be sold. Anyway I paid 1000 to 150 francs, it is about
three and a half dollars and three and half dollars is the salary their parents come and
in two, were in two days work. You think what's--what does it mean to have a book over there. A
lady asked me, "What can I do? How many books can I send?" If you want to send a container
maybe I can give one book, one book to each one of the thousand of pupils that we have
over there. They love to play--you know now, do you remember how in the beginning was green,
how--now everything is dry, how things--there are two seasons but during the rainy season
they work in the fields and you can go to, to because--see. Now [INDISTINCT], no possibility
just to go because you are going to have a problem anytime and I was just taking them
to the well and I was asking to the--to the people "What's that?" And I told them "That's
the school bus" how many people can go in? How many people can go in the school bus?
I remember once I took them you know the parents are really happy, we have finished the meeting.
See, even when they have nothing many times they're much more happy that we are having
so many things, why? Because I'm sure things don't make you happy and money is not the
most important thing, there are many more things, more important than money and having
things. Friendship is something that--and when you understand people he loves us is,
is really nice something like that, you know how many pupil, how many pupil can enter the
school bus? >> [LAUGH]
>> GUTIERREZ: About, about 30. And they are so happy, just to go in. In the same way the
time working with building the school, digging wells, I thought about the construction of
dam, why? Because when the rainy season arrives, the water comes but if you can stop it there
and not let the, the water would go, things are going to change and I'm thinking about
changing what--the way in which people live in is not just to bring them computer, a computer,
why? Because they can't use it. We have to go step by step and, yes, being with them
and know what they need. Because somebody came and told me, "I'm going to give you a
motor. He asked to bring the water from the well." I said, "No." "But, I give it to you.
It's free. It's a present." I don't want it. Why? Because the women that walk three, four
miles to look for water and have water in here are very happy with it. Then the moment
that the women are going to ask for it, I'm going to meet to them--I'm going to ask them,
"How much you are going to give me for it?" It doesn't matter. If they say five and it
is 5,000, it's not a problem. But is there collaboration in this--their situation? In
here, they have built a bridge and a bridge that, you know, has gone. And the best solution
should be is not to build only a bridge. Yes, to make a dam, in order water will stay there,
you know. And August the 15, I passed across this. This August the 15, I remember I passed
this bridge but after I think three different moments in which a heavy rain came then everything
went away. And I remember, it was an engineer who came over there and said, "This is a very
nice place because everything is to be done." You know, nothing has been done. And, you
know, this is the former bridge. The water has swept it away.
>> I have a question. >> GUTIERREZ: Yeah.
>> [INDISTINCT] So, a lot of these people that you live with do not have education and
yet you need them to do things that require quiet a bit of education. So, how do you find
people to do projects of this scale? How do you find people to build a bridge when that
requires engineering skills? >> GUTIERREZ: Well, you want to know, how
I can find people, yes, to do projects like this. Well, maybe you--yourself can find the
answer. Who has called me to get in here? He who has a followed the situation, you--I
just try to come in here to let people know what I need. And then if somebody wanted to
help me, I'm just happy to collaborate. I am ready and to do what they can do for me,
what--not only for me but what for the people over there.
>> Would they get involved in a project like this or...
>> GUTIERREZ: Unless they are not involved there's nothing to do. You know, we have,
yes, seen the bridge. It is a story that means that these are really the--there was a village
that was in two parts of the river. And then, there was a nonprofit organization that came
and said, "We are going to build you a bridge." And then they came and build a bridge. People
were very happy with the bridge. But, you know, the rainy season was a heavy one, and
then it came and took away the area that they have put, yes, around the bridge. And they
called to those who have built the bridge. You know, we have problems. We want you to
help us. They arrived, it's very easy. It's only up to you to put the area. I don't--they
haven't--they haven't thought about it, why? Because everything had been done for them.
No, no, no, no. It's not the way. What you have to do is to involve them. For example,
in digging a well, you have seen in--for example, a dam. When you want to make a dam, what can
you do? For example, you need stone. You are going to organize everybody in the different
villages just to bring a stone. They are going to be very happy. Just saying, it is us who
have made it. Otherwise, if you bring the stones they are going to think, "Oh, a good
stone. I'm going to steal it and I'm going to take it away." No, no, it's not the way.
The way is just to let them participate, to involve them in the situation. When I make
a school the young people working are invited, yes, to say, "Once you have built your school
you are going to come here to learn, to read and write." It's your right because it's you
who have worked in here. Then, it's up to you to come. You know, unless they don't feel
that the thing is for them and that it is them who have participated, it's difficult.
And development is not to give a present. Development is to change mentally and to help
them to stand if they are---just letting, help them to stand. Okay. Thank you for your
question. You know, the effects of the heavy rain. It is--it arrives and it arrives. Water
is a problem that when they are constructing, they are not really conscious. Maybe we don't
have all the different possibilities that may happen. And when you see things in here
you can imagine that a heavy rain, the water maybe a 15 to 20 feet high. And it is a few
hours. But a few hours is enough just to sweep the different wells. I think things are really
different. For me, it really helps to imagine where I am. But the thing for you is really
difficult just to imagine where I am too over there. May--but maybe we can bring things
together to realize, you know. I went there just to visit the other place and I realized
that when a heavy rain came water has gone over the bridge. And see the holes that they
have they--when the water was going through and we were going to see the bridge and where
the water came--arrive. Here, you know. Do you realize that the water has gone over the
bridge? And two days ago things have gone. See, it is a how the bridge is now. They are
just trying to repair but the worst happened here. Election took place last Sunday. Then
because it was the period in which election were going to take place, even the president
came 500 miles away. He came over there and visit in a helicopter. I'm sure in for--a
year's time nothing will be done. then you have to go across the water and during the
rainy season, nothing to do. But if I am able to do something, the government and the authorities
are going to be very happy with the things you are going to do. Because they recognize
that you are with the population, that you are with people and that you try to help them.
For example, this year, I've just started in the little city where I am with a campaign
to a let people come to learn, to read and write. All the people that go to--you can
say a vocational school, but try to learn something for a vocational school. I have
spoken to all in the masters and they send the people who--the young people to the school.
He asked to learn, to read and write. I have about 500 in the city. But all around, well,
see, how many people are in the--in the school mission. And they are--they come with their
children. They are like this. Now, some of them are learning in the local language. Not
many. Because I prefer they to do the effort to learn French because is much more interesting
because when you are more in speaking French is the way, yes, to communicate with the other,
you know. That is a language called mobile. I'm learning it. I was really happy, yes,
to--when I went there to find the method, and even coming in here when I have a time--a
little time, I try to learn your [INDISTINCT] and the books that I was really like it that
I have from them. But in Mocali is me--well, not only me but the team that was really come
with me, that we have done this. And the dictionary, we have made it from Mocali-French and French-Mocali.
It is our group of that, and, you know, done--when you have done it and you realize that is the
way in which a tongue is a--a language is not going to be lost today. Is going to--they
have come to me with the number of those who want to learn, to go to school to learn, a--to
read and write, go ahead. See, in here which number--yeah? The total is 154--oh, 84. But
that was a group, and I have several groups. I think I will have about 500 coming to learn
to our school in the mission. Can you imagine? I am in here and I say, "Who can read?" Everybody
is--it's normal. Over there, I can say, "Who can read?" Many times it is only me who can
read. Can you imagine the difference? But for me, the importance thing is to realize.
What is my virtue and what is their fault? Why we are in here and we can read and write
and we can have so many things and why they are there and they come and they don't have
as many things as we have. And what can we do? Yes, to share. Yes, to share. What? Our
time, our possibilities, our money, our--yes, to be conscious that is not up to us, yes,
to run where. There were the two young men running like this, "Where are we going?" "I
don't know," said the other, and the other said, "Hurry up, we are going to be late."
Many times, we can have something like this, just to realize that people are, you know,
demitted. People need our help, and I've told you I want to be the voice of those who have
no voice. Over there is really funny. But that nobody can speak French. Only the teacher.
They... >> [INDISTINCT] if you take a few questions
now and then we should wrap. >> GUTIERREZ: Yeah. Here? For me, it's not
a problem. I am speaking--I'm just speaking. Anyway, if you want to ask--because, you know,
I'm just showing you something, but maybe the question you are going to ask to me are
much more interesting because are words--the one--the things you want to know better than
the things I'm leaving. Anybody? Yeah. >> Does people have enough bikes to move around?
You said that bikes are their main vehicle. >> Do they have enough bicycles?
>> Can you repeat the question? >> GUTIERREZ: Yeah, he wants to know if they're--all
of them have bikes. Not even all. Not even all. Having a car in here is much more easy
than having a bicycle over there. Not everybody has a bicycle. Not everybody can afford it.
Something we can't imagine. The reality is there. Yes?
>> What do the people do during the dry season if there's no agriculture for them?
>> Gutierrez: Yeah. And there are two different seasons. The rainy season in which people
work like the animals. And during the dry season, nothing to do. Then is the problem.
What do they do during the dry season? I try to make them conscious how they have to work,
they have to prepare things, you know. Because, you know, the one who can't count one, two,
three many can't organize things, can--and what you have to do is just to help them to
organize things. How? Yes, sending them to school. One of the things I have done is planting
trees. In here, I can speak about--how do you say reforest--a...
>> Reforestation. >> GUTIERREZ: Reforestation is the word I
was looking for. Thank you. In here, I am telling you well, you know, these are--it's
coming quickly, then we have to plant trees. Yes, to stop--over there, that says nothing.
But when you say, "If you plant these trees, in three years time your are going to have
food, enough to eat," and those who can prevent, who can't count, can't organize things, and
when the crop has come, it doesn't matter if it is 10 or 20 or 50 sacks that have arrive,
they are going to finish it in four or five months, and the rest problems. Then what they
have tried to do is to put trees, cashew trees, that can feed them the moment that corn and
sorghum is going to lack. And especially, what would have I done? Yes, make things in
order women will realize how things are not very difficult. You see a cashew. I didn't
know anything about cashew trees. I didn't know anything about planting trees or about
digging wells. But what's happening? When I see that people have a problem I try to
be with them and to solve the problem with them. Then I try to be with them. You know,
they are throwing, yes, it--but that a kind of apple has nine times the vitamin C that
the oranges have. Then if you try it, the moment there is too--there are too many, you
can dry them. And after that's like a sweet for them. And then the women arrive to dry
it to put in a plastic bag, two, three months later, they can give them to the kids and
the kids are going to go to school, and they have found something to eat. So, and, you
know, I was thinking about a--sending them, yes, to sell and--but when I realized trade,
that's terrible. That's the sea and sharks, they are biting people. Then I just try to
tell them, "You know, you have things in here to eat, food enough. You don't have problems."
If you want to start with a trade, from time to time you see a [INDISTINCT] that says,
"I'm selling here, things coming from South America or Africa," is something very, very
dangerous and difficult. But at least for me, if they arrive to realize that things
can happen like that, because, you know, this is 600 francs, and they use to come from the
village with wood. Maybe, maybe over 100 pounds of wood and they are going to receive 300.
This is not heavy. You can come with this and you are going to find somebody to buy
it. It is the way. >> Okay, we should take a few more questions
and then [INDISTINCT] >> Yes?
>> GUTIERREZ: Any more question? I think you are surprised about something so different.
Can you imagine something like that? It is funny? Yes?
>> How do those people get the clothes, for example?
>> GUTIERREZ: The clothes? >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah, yeah--you know, this is the clothes--they usually use a bank holiday or maybe on Sunday.
But usually they can get second-hand clothes coming from Europe or coming from America,
and then they are going to buy it and they are going wear it. There are two different
ways in which they dress. The bank holiday, they are well-dressed and they--a work day
they usually--well, not everybody but--because some of them don't have even money to wear
clothes. I remember I was in charge of the prison. And at least on and at least 6 times
I could find clothes for all the 300 prisoners. I used to get a container and then from the
welfare in the--in my city they send me clothes just to give one to each one of those who
are in prison. >> We'd like to thank all of you for coming
today, and Antonio will be here for a few minutes after the talk, if you'd like to come
up and ask more questions. Also, we invite to join us for lunch today if you'd like to
do that. And we thank you on behalf Bail Bob Humanity Initiative for joining us today.
Thank you very much.