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[Deepak Chopra]I am Deepak Chopra, you are watching "One World" with Deepak Chopra, and
the programme is being brought to you from NASDAQ OMX market place in New York city.
My very special guest today is Nigel Barker, and you're from Srilanka in the sense.
[Nigel Barker] In the sense, absolutely- well my Mom is from Sri Lanka, and ah, I was brought
up with a lot of SriLankan values from her and my grandmother as well, who lived in the
house with us, and you know my father happens to be English & Irish, but he was born in
India. [DC] I see.
[NB] And ironically, both my parents were born in India, even though my Mom is Srilankan,
and they met in England 20 years later, where they'd find, when they were kids, they had
only grown up a street apart from each other. [DC] It's what we call synchronistic.
[NB] There we go, you know who is to know, you know? It was an interesting childhood,
growing up in England in the 70's, ah at a time, when there were very few mixed racial
marriages. And I think my parents had a very interesting philosophy on life, you know they
were very philanthropic, they brought the children in on everything.
[DC] What did you father do? [NB] My father was actually a financial consultant,
you know but ah he was a very religious man, going to church was a big part of his routine,
and multiple times during the week. But, I always remember growing up with them giving
us , his children -- I was 1 of 6 - to rally and raise money, with cans, to march, to save
the seals in the streets of London, go to the speakers corner and get on, I see my father
get on the soap box and talking about people's rights. So, I guess from a very young age,
I was activated. He taught me, along with my mother's encouragement, that you got to
speak up for the issues in the world, you know. That's what I certainly try to do, even
though I work in fashion and photography. [DC] How did you get there?
[NB] Well, I can blame my mother for this one. My mother happens to been a Miss Sri lanka.
[DC] Ohhh [NB] In 1967, and she brought over her family
from Sri Lanka to England, ahh through her modelling and acting, and became a bit of
a sensation for several years in England, and it's interesting for me how my Mom really
looked after my grandmother and my aunt. [DC] In England?
[NB] In England, she took care of the family before she married my father, and I, growing
up , got to see how she used the entertainment industry not just to glamorise her life, but
far from it. If anything, she used it to support her family & to make a better world for them..
and it was an interesting sort of, I guess, vision of that world for me cause you know,
it was almost through the reverse of glamorous. It was absolutely down to earth, and when
I was only 18 years old, she entered me into a competition called the "Clothes Show" in
England, one of the very first televised... [DC] As a model?
[NB] As a model, I would like to say I came kicking and screaming because I didn't want
to do it. Not a 100% true. I didn't win. I got in the final 3, and of course ironically
enough, I ended up becoming judge in a television show in America.
[DC] That's right. [NB] Instead, doing a 180, and you know.
[DC] America's next top model. [NB] I did that for 17 seasons, now I have
my own show "The Face" on Oxygen, which I am hosting with Naomi Campbell, so you know
my life has taken this very unusual.... [DC] And what is this show about?
[NB] It is a show similar to the voice, where we have 3 super model coaches-Naomi Campbell
being one of them, Lydia Hersten & V this season, for season 2 ,which we are about to
air in February of 2014, and they are mentors, super model mentors. They have handpicked
teams of models, and will teach them how they became so successful, and I host the show,
and my job is really to explain to the audience out there what's actually going on, what we
are seeing, to do a better translation, because you know, the fashion world could be a bit
confusing and fickle for people, when they are actually watching it's 'what is actually
happening, so I am bit of a super model whisperer as I'd like to say.
[DC] And what was the connection with Tyra Banks?
[NB] You know, Tyra had asked me to join her show as a photographer, just to do a shoot
for them. And it was very organic, and I did a photo shoot- they liked me on the show,
it was their season 2, end of season 1 I mean, and they said, "would you be interested in
taking a permanent role?" Back then, you know, it was a very small show, very small network,
I was new to the United States, so how can I make this splash?, how can I really rival
the big names in the business?, and I thought, you know I work on prime time TV , it is one
way of getting myself known to a larger audience. [DC] But how do you get on prime time TV?
[NB]She just, you know, she liked the sound of me, she liked, I guess, my clarity and
you know, I am very lucky. I think, something to be said being English on American television.
[DC] (chuckles) That's right. [NB] Every reality show has to have a dash
of English, it's like a cocktail mix. [DC] Including this Saturday Night, right?
[NB] Exactly, all of them. They pretend to be, but if they are not. So, I think we have
a way of making things sound as if they are important.
[DC] Impressive. [NB]And impressive, even though we are talking
absolute trash. [DC] Yes, most of the time. (laugh)
[NB] Thank you. I think. [DC] I grew up with that influence in my life
too. So you're not. Obviously, the show has been very successful, takes most of your time
does it? [NB] It takes certain amount of my time. I
think, one of the wonderful things about working on television like that, you know, doing a show
like Americas next top model and The Face is that we always have a global audience.
We are in 160 countries; we have a weekly viewership of 100 million people watching
the show a week. It is the largest television export out of United States, even bigger than
Baywatch, Sesame Street- who knew, fashion would be so popular? It's made us household
names the world over. You know, I just jumped in my cab coming here today, and that guy
looks up and goes I recognize that voice, Nigel Barker, "My wife makes me watch you,"
and I was like, "It's okay your secrets safe with me." You know, but more importantly,
I think in having a show like this, and having that kind of global awareness, gives you the
opportunity to get a message out about a more important issue.
[DC] We will come to that in a moment, do you have a family?
[NB] I do, I do. [DC] Tell me about them.
[NB] I've got two beautiful little children, Jack and Jasmine, 7 & 4. It happens to be my wedding
anniversary today, 14 years. So, we are excited about that.
[DC] Congratulations. [NB] Thank you. My wife said to me, "You are
not to do anything today." And this interview came up. And she is like, "There is an interview,
and you don't need to do it, you can do something else." I am like, "well who, what is it about?"
She was like, "well it's with Deepak Chopra," and I was like, I immediately jumped up. I
said, "You got to be kidding me." You know I've been following him on twitter for years. You
are my go to. I look you up every morning, even when I am in the gym or on the way to
work. [DC] I think I tweet too much.
[NB] You don't, you tweet just, not enough, quite frankly. You know what i like about
your tweets specifically? [DC] Join me on twitter @DeepakChopra.
[NB] You do, because you are grounding, everyone else is very , seems like, I follow a lot
of people, but most people either get me riled up, irritated or you know, I just want to
tune out. With you I listen, I read, and I wait a second. I should take a moment, so
thank you for that. [DC] So, you have done so many things in the
fashion world, media, television but there is something more significant in your life,
which is the Helping with the Elizabeth Glaser Foundation.
[NB] I've been very lucky. Yes, exactly, I started, I actually discovered the Elizabeth Glaser Pediatric
AIDS Foundation for myself, you know, in 2008. [DC] Tell me about it.
[NB] You know, it was very organic, as someone who works on television, as a face that people recognize,
they have these incredible fund raisers called "A Time For Heroes" & "Kids For Kids"
they have in New York and Los Angeles. And they have various celebrities, and people from the media,
who help host these events, they run booths, it's a bit like a carnival- street carnival, and I was asked
to do one. I was asked to take photographs, and I thought absolutely, I loved to, and
I think working with children and paediatric aids, which is what Big Foundation does is
a very important issue, and you know I, sadly, I have many friends, and one in particular
friend, who died of AIDS, and I had seen him go through it, and it was devastating for
me and very tragic for everyone involved in his family, and any opportunity to give back
in that scenario, I thought for sure. I remember when I first did this, it was "Kids For Kids"
in New York [DC] When was this?
[NB] 2008, and I guess naively, because I had seen what everybody else had seen, as
far as films around AIDS and ***, and my friends who had died of ***, what they had gone through,
when I was at this event, I remember looking around and seeing --lots of Happy faces, beautiful
people, and I thought to myself, "Where is aids, where is ***?" And I remember speaking
to these 3 children, or young people, who were with me, a family who were there- and
I said where are the people with ***, why are they not here? And one girl went, I am
*** positive, and the other one said I am *** positive. Then, this family, a couple
said, we are both *** positive, but our baby is not, and I was like what? I just felt,
obviously rather silly, because I should have perhaps known that, but I didn't, and I realised
this is someone like myself who is educated, who does read newspapers, who does stay on
top of things, and I wasn't fully aware. Now, I know we don't tell people the good news,
we tell people the bad news, and I felt this was a very important message, so I set out
to create a film called "Generation Free," where I wanted to go to Africa where, one
of the countries, they are in 15 countries the Elizabeth Glaser Pediatrics AIDS Foundation,
we will call them EGPAF for now as it is a very large word. The EGPAF is in 15 countries,
with 6,800 locations, and we picked Tanzania to visit, this country, as it is a really.
They have done an incredible job in Tanzania dealing with *** and AIDs with the foundation,
and we wanted to spread the word that work can be done, basically, that children do not
need to be born *** positive, like this family with *** positive- mother and father, you
can have a *** negative baby, and I really didn't know that, the face of AIDS changed.
[DC] Elizabeth was one of my patients, many years ago.
[NB] I heard that, it is amazing. [DC] And she had a child, who died of AIDS,
and another child Jake, who is *** positive. [NB] And he is a great face for the foundation
as well, strong, healthy man, and it shows again how much the research the foundation has
done, and the work they have done, how affective it's been.
[DC] So the demographic here has changed, but you got to Africa it's still devastating
right? [NB] You're right. I mean, interestingly enough,
*** positive babies have pretty much been completely eradicated in the United States, not completely, but
a few hundred babies born, still too many, but the reality is that through the medicine and the
research, it's all been done, and one of the great things of this foundation is that..
[DC] It's no longer a diagnosis, which says you are going to die, it used to be.
[NB] Absolutely, it is absolutely fixable and curable. When I first started, from 2008
to now - back then, a 1,000 babies are being born everyday *** positive in Sub Saharan
Africa, and the developing world. Now a few years later, since 2008 , we are now saying
700 babies are being born everyday *** positive. Even in that period of time, I am seeing the
statistics change by, you know, 30% and, in the US it has gone from a few percent to
virtually annihilated. So, we know we can make a difference. I think, it's amazing for
people to grab on to foundation that's doing work, that you feel the results, they're tangible.
Perhaps, in our life time, we can eradicate pediatric AIDS, which is extraordinary, which of course, those
babies, which do slip through, unfortunately, if they are not treated by the time they are
2 years old, they have a 50 % chance of dying. So it's very important that even babies that
get through them, and are born *** positive, they also get the treatment, and I think that's
why the foundation is so amazing, because they have such a global reach, and to talk about
the global reach when I was in Tanzania, I wanted to see how far their reach was. We
went to the Masai step, and we met with the nomadic tribes from Masai, I had to negotiate
with the witch doctors, and I had to negotiate with the tribe leaders, who absolutely said
there was no such thing as *** and AIDS. [DC] How did they interpret the illness?
[NB] Well, that is interesting. Well, we first had to have two interpreters, so one from
Masai to Swaheli, and Swaheli to English. So, it was a rather interesting conversation
all around. But, they interpreted it as spirits, and other kinds of sort of magic, strange
as it is the witch doctor had this sort of a horn, which had marbles and stones in it, which
he rolled around, threw them on the ground, you know, before even he'd talk to me.
[DC] But, it's a relatively new disease even there, you know in terms of..its only.
[NB] Oh ya, but its wiping them out. [DC] Yes.
[NB] Because of the way that they are organized, and the way they move around the country.
[DC] See, a lot of people who are listening to us, they don't know that much about AIDS.
It is a different demographic here, the way it is acquired here, used to be drugs, and
you know unsafe sex. What's the usual method of transmission over there?
[NB] I mean, I still think it's still sex, is the, you know, unsafe sex or safe sex. I mean,
a lot of these are also even married, I mean it's not, they don't even, they are *** positive,
and in certain cultures, and in certain areas it's not, you know being promiscuous, you
know is a sin so to speak. It's actually the way of the culture, and unfortunately, if you don't
realise what's happening, one person has *** in a situation like the Masai, where relationships
are not how we imagine them happens in the Western world, it can spread much more affirmly.
Unfortunately, because they do not believe, it is even real, it's hard to reach them.
[DC]So Nigel, I am a physician and you know, looked at this, where was this disease 50
years ago, or 20 years ago, 30 years ago, how did it suddenly surface on a global scale?
[NB] I mean, I think, I obviously don't have the answer to those sorts of questions.
[DC] It's kind of mysterious. [NB] But, it is very mysterious, but I think
the nature of it, the nature of how you can contract it, it's the nature of how we are
as a species, how we reproduce, so that being something every single one of us wants to
do, does, has done, it's no surprise. [DC] We are here because of it.
[NB] Because of it, so it's no surprise. It is going to spread like wild fire unless you
treat it, and I think that I actually met Masai women and nurses, who had been reached
by the organisation, by EGPAF, who had, bizarrely, amazingly enough, they had been taught the ways of how
to deliver babies safely, and originally when they were first taught, a lot of the actual
Masai women did not want to be treated by the modern ways, until they realised the
ones that took that risk, and were treated, had babies that survived, had a baby that
lived, had babies that did not have the mystery illness, and it shows that if you can reach
the Masai, then we can certainly reach people in the major cities all around the world,
and you can make a difference. [DC] The Elizabeth Glaser Foundation.
[NB] 25 years, 1988 when they first started.
[DC] 25 years, and everywhere in the world now- their focus mostly is on obviously pediatric
AIDS, right? [NB] The focus is on pediatric AIDS, but
they treat families. I mean, PMTCT, which is their 'Prevention To Mother To Child Transmission'
is the key for them. And of course, that's when the mother is pregnant and *** poistive
delivering the baby, making sure it's *** negative. That's their key focus, but of course
treating the whole family, because obviously the family is mother and father most of the times. Sometimes,
sadly, the father even will kick the wife out for being *** positive, when it's he who
gave it to her. You know getting tested, I think, is key, and obviously, advocating, educating people of what
the issue is key [DC] And your role now?
[NB] As an ambassador for them, I think really spreading the word and getting people to listen.
[DC] Globally? [NB] Globally, getting people to listen, and
understand, and there is so much stigma and discrimination still attached to it, that
getting tested, sometimes, people are scared to do that, because if they get tested, that
makes people think, "well are you potentially possible of having ***, are you that kind
of person?" I think world leaders... [DC] Stigma even to getting it tested.
[NB] Just to get it tested, because it suggests perhaps, you might be someone who, you know
is promiscuous, or might have had unsafe sex. It's amazing in certain cultures, where people
don't. I think it's amazing in Tanzania, where the First Lady and President got tested publicly
to say, "If we can get tested, you can get tested." And that was something they had worked
with us, with Elizabeth Glaser Pediatrics AIDS Foundation to do that, and it had a huge ricochet effect.
That country, as a result, is an incredible country in Africa for what they've done with
***, and you've seen number drop dramatically as a result.
[DC] So Nigel, just a few more questions. [NB] Of course.
[DC] Who are you? [NB] I'm just a man, to be honest I think,
I am just a guy. Obviously I am a photographer, and I work on television, and I've been very lucky,
but I am a very lucky man, who's married to a beautiful woman, whose got two wonderful
kids, and I think when you see the value of life, and you enjoy life yourself, all you
want to do is make sure it's as beautiful, as magical for your children, if not better.
But not just for your children, but for everyone's children. I see my kids in everyone's kids'
faces, and you go to Africa or you go to India or Sri Lanka, you see those kids, who don't
have what you have. They've got illnesses, they've got struggle, they've got famine,
they've got poverty, they've got lack of education. You think, "What can I do to remedy that?" And of course,
there are things that we can do, from my perspective, if I can use my photography and film making
skills to shine a spotlight on the story, I think it's invaluable, something I can do. The words are important
but a photograph, if someone can move them just by looking at them, and they realise
they need to do the right thing, I think I have achieved something.
[DC] So what would you say your life purpose is?
[NB] My life's purpose would be to probably make a difference, to live the best life I
can. I kind of believe that you only live once, live well, and if you live the right way the once
should be enough. [DC] Only live once in this shape and form.
[NB] Perhaps, perhaps. [DC] (Laughs) What, what inspires you every
day? [NB] I think I am inspired by life. I am someone
who is very passionate. I am not inspired by places, but by people. And it's,
I can be in the ugliest space potentially, what is ugly first of all, but what inspires me is someone's
reaction, someone's fight for life, someone's struggle. The fact that I can be in Haiti
right after the earthquake, or right after the food riots in 2008, and you see people
who have got absolutely nothing, but what sometimes they do have is a fight for life, they
have passion to save their family, to make a better world for themselves, and that for
me is enormously contagious, and I find that extraordinarily attractive and alluring, and
that is something for me tells a story of the human species. That is one of the reasons
we are enormously successful as a species, at the same time often time are our downfall.
[DC] Tell me about the most joyful moments of your life.
[NB] Tomorrow perhaps, I think it's yesterday, tomorrow, today. Everyday there are joyful moments.
[DC] You find joy? [NB] Always, always.I look for joy everywhere.
In my business, I work with all kinds of wonderful interesting people, but it's the real stories
I haven't heard before, the ability to perhaps capture that, and share that with other people.
If I can take a photograph of someone, and I'd love for you to be a subject of mine,
if I am able to tell a story where it isn't necessarily about being the most attractive picture,
but it's about being the most honest picture. That's what I am hoping to do, is capture a photograph of someone
where, someone like a friend of yours, or loved one of yours, look at it, and be like "That's
the Deepak that I know. That's the man." It's something in his eyes, the boundaries are
gone. [DC]We'll do it, so do you have any idea why
we exist? [NB] You know, it's a good question, obviously every
philosopher has pondered. I don't really know why we exist, but I realise that as we are
obviously here, we need to make most of our time here, otherwise what is it about? I love
that kind of Bob Marley expression, or verse that he uses that "Heaven is a place on earth."
So you should enjoy it right now, right here and right now.
[DC] And it is within us to upgrade this lunatic asylum that we are in.
[NB] That we seem to be a part of, no for sure. And I think people too, we are also
very down on things. Obviously, there is tragedy and disaster all over the world, but there
is tendency to only have a focus on the problem, and we don't spend enough time perhaps to
focusing on things which we have in life. We always want more, we always haven't got enough, and
I think it is extraordinary that when you do go to, perhaps, what we call third world
countries, where often times we condescend and think, "Oh they really need our help."
[DC] The white's says we are complex. [NB] You hear it too often, and you actually look
at them, they are in love with one another, they are quite happy with their field, with
their ploughing, eating the food from it, they don't need an iPad, or electronics, or
perhaps even electricity. [DC] Till we show them what it's like.
[NB] Until we show them what it's like, and then they get addicted to it. But all of that is
very interesting. [DC] Nigel Barker, thank you very much. [NB] Thank you very much, it is a pleasure.