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>> female announcer: This is a
production of WKNO-Memphis.
Production funding for "Behind
the Headlines" is made possible
in part by..
With the merger of the schools
dragging on, some call for a
special master to jump start the
process tonight on "Behind the
Headlines."
[instrumental music]
♪♪♪
>> Barnes: I'm Eric Barnes,
publisher of the Memphis Daily
News.
Thanks for joining us.
We are joined tonight to talk
about the schools and other
matters with Mike Ritz, chairman
of the County Commission.
Thank you for being here.
>> Ritz: Thank you.
>> Barnes: Also, Keith McDonald,
Mayor of Bartlett.
Thank you for joining us.
>> McDonald: It's good to be
with you.
>> Barnes: And Bill Dries,
reporter with the Memphis Daily
News.
We start with lots going on with
the schools but we'll start
with, um, the federal judge, um
Hardy Mays who is overseeing
this process at this point.
Uh, had a meeting with various
parties including County
Commission, the suburban mayors,
other folks and was by all
accounts pretty disappointed
with the lack of progress that's
been made by the, um, unified
school board and has talked
about a special master.
Someone who would come in and
sort of jokingly but maybe not
so jokingly referred to as a
king who could start making
decisions more quickly.
Let's start with you Chairman
Ritz.
Your take on that.
Is that a good move?
Is that where we need to go with
this process?
>> Ritz: I don't think there's
any question.
I really wish we had thought
about it earlier.
We hadn't thought about it in a
while.
But we did not meet with the
judge.
Our lawyers met with the judge
and it was pretty clear, I
think, that the purpose of the
meeting Monday morning really
didn't have anything to do with
the current dispute between us
and the suburbs.
It had to do with the judges
frustration with the school
board because he said, "I'm just
going to postpone the remaining
two issues," which he could have
done in a conference call.
>> Barnes: The remaining two
legal issues about the laws that
said ...
We can talk about those in a
minute.
>> Ritz: But the county school
board is not part of the dispute
between the county and the
suburbs right now.
They were invited.
When they were there, that said
everything.
He was there to..
>> Barnes: Right and when
they're invited, Mayor McDonald,
part of what maybe you all have
said, the suburbs said, form the
beginning is part of..
This is why you didn't want to
be in this situation because big
bureaucracies, folks on your
side of the table have said,
"Just don't make good decisions
that get disconnected."
And that seems to be what Hardy
Mays was responding to that the
special master.
Somebody's got to step in and
start moving more quickly
because the new school year is
right around the corner.
>> McDonald: Well, not only the
suburban but even the TPC said
early on, we want the special
master, someone who's involved
from the very beginning so that
they see it all the way through
'til whatever happens, happens.
And that was not done and I
think that was a mistake.
Um, now, I'm glad they're going
to remedy the mistake but even
with that, the period of time
left to choose a
superintendant..
And in my opinion, they already
have a very good person already
in place.
>> Barnes: John Aitken who is,
I'm assuming you're saying is,
who is, superintendant of the
county schools.
>> McDonald: Right. Uh, the need
to get someone in place ready to
go and move this thing forward.
because there's a lot.
There's a lot to the TPC plan.
There's a lot to trying to get
to the budget where it's
reasonable, you know.
We always expected that at least
the amount that the city of
Memphis was paying, that that
gap would continue to exist
because of the need to level up
in a number of these areas.
Now, my understanding of
legislation is they've got three
years to do that.
For whatever reason, they're
choosing to try to do all of
those in the first year.
I think that's a mistake and
hopefully, the special master
can help with that remedy to
say, "You know, some of these
things we'll do year one.
"Some of them, we'll do year
two.
"And then, we'll do the others
in year three."
That's a whole lot better, um,
pill to swallow.
And I think the Commisoner Ritz
will tell you, I don't believe
the votes are there to get any
more than just under 10 percent
increase.
And so, that's what they need to
be thinking about is okay, what
can we implement and then maybe
next year, stair-step it.
>> Barnes: We'll get in to some
budget details as we go on.
But still on this special master
just for a second, some of the
names have been thrown around.
Let me bring you in, Bill.
Just names that have been thrown
around by who, um, so far, who
could step in and be this
special master because it's not
necessarily a legal person it
needs.
It just needs to be someone who
can make decisions and report
back to the judge.
Is that correct?
>> Dries: Yeah and the judge has
indicated that it probably needs
to be someone who is familiar
with the work that's been done
so you don't have a learning
curve in all of this.
And some of the names that have
been suggested by the county
commission, the attorneys for
the County Commission as well as
the attorneys for the city of
Memphis and the City Council,
are three members of the
Transition Planning Commission,
Staley Cates.
You also have Christine Richards
who's the FedEx General Counsel.
And you have Barbara Prescott
who is the Chairwoman of the
Transition Planning Commission
and is a former school board
member.
And as well, George Brown, a
retired circuit court judge who
served on the Memphis City
school board as well.
So, those are some of the
suggestions the judge is
considering.
>> Barnes: And part of the
frustration is and I think I'm
going to turn to you,
Commissioner Ritz, is the lack
of decision making that you all
from a budget point of view, you
know.
What is this budget going to be?
What are they really spending?
Have they done the hard work, I
think, from your point of view
and other folks' point of view
of making cuts or consolidating
services?
And that's been the real
criticism is they haven't made
some of those really tough
decisions.
Just Thursday night there was a
vote, one of the controversial
votes to go to outsource
custodial services which has
taken, from a lot of people's
point of view, way too long to
get that point.
But even then, they voted to go
outsource but wouldn't pick a
contractor and defer that for
another week, two or three,
four.
They did so some changes to
benefits to reduce benefits, I
believe, to the city teachers
and so on to get it in line with
Shelby County.
But all these other hard
decisions like the
superintendant and so on aren't
happening.
From your point of view, is the
person sitting?
I mean, it's the whole
commission.
But you've got to fund this
school system and they're moving
very slowly, I assume from your
point of view, to make these
decision.
>> Ritz: Behind the scenes, I've
been meeting with Chairman Orgel
and Superintendant Aitken, the
interim, and Superintendant
Hopson for weeks and weeks
encouraging them to focus and
get down because my concern was,
as the mayor indicated is, to
find seven votes to provide them
financing this year is going to
be, uh, very difficult to get
over.
To have a 10 percent tax
increase was to be anything over
essentially 40 cents would
require nine votes.
And I don't know we ever get to
nine votes on anything at the
County Commission.
And for them to being
essentially what I've been
referring to for eight months a
train wreck of a budget to us
and that's what they have, 60
cent with $145 million.
But there isn't a snowball's
chance and for them.
You know, if they want to blame
it on the County Commission
because they don't have the
money, that's fine.
Most of the commissioners will
say we did our best and we'll
move on.
But they need to get right.
They need to make the decision
about the school maintenance.
They need to make the decision
about privatizing the best
drivers, you know, in the city.
Pardon me, in the county.
The superintendant decision, the
closing of the schools
decisions, those are the big
pricey issues.
And if they don't make them..
Let's put it this way.
They're going to have to make
those issues because anyway,
they're going to get the money
they want.
And they're going to have to
make those decisions plus a
bunch of more difficult
decisions.
And we've been telling them
there for a long time.
We got to remember, part of the
problem here was Doctor Cash.
I'll be quite frank about it.
He was opposing all the TPC
recommendations that had
anything to do with cost
savings.
>> Barnes: And that's the former
superintendent of the city
school side.
>> Ritz: And until he left,
which was just five or six weeks
ago, the administrations were in
total chaos.
They wouldn't say it publically
but they'll tell you, probably,
it was a mess.
And now it's much better because
Aitken is clearly the interim
superintendant.
Dorsey's sort of helping out.
>> Barnes: Clearly the interim
and has said that he's not
interested in the job in the
long term.
So, you have a more clear cut.
>> Ritz: Everybody's working
together now which is a big
difference.
It's only been going on for six
weeks.
>> Barnes: Right, right.
Let me ask you and then I'll get
to Bill has a question.
But from Bartlett's point of
view, your constituents, the
people in Bartlett.
You know, you hear about this
gap in funding and like you
said, you know, it was expected
that there would be something
around a $70 million gap which
was, you know, the city stepping
out.
$145 million, every one has said
that's dead on arrival.
But in your mind, are the people
of Bartlett ready to pay more
taxes for the schools system?
I mean, is that an inevitability
that you think the people in
Bartlett are ready to accept?
Or do they want the unified
school board to go back and keep
cutting until they live within
the money that's currently
available?
>> McDonald: Well, it depends on
which way you're talking about.
Obviously they've said, "We'll
spend more money if we have
local control" because they
passed the sales tax revenue in
order to do that on a local
level.
From the level of this unified
system, you know, they'd rather
not spend a whole not more until
they rake the ship.
You know, there's just not a lot
of confidence that they're doing
everything they can to make it
as lean as it needs to be at all
levels.
And so, I think there's a real
cynical view that, you know, we
just don't believe.
If they have to have five hour
meetings every time and, you
know, people are walking out and
yelling at each other instead of
just saying, "Look, these are
hard choices.
"Let's agree to disagree
agreeably."
Then, they're never going to get
where they need to in time to
educate the children.
And right now, they're going to
educate all the children.
So, you know, that was one of
the points that people like
Commissioner Ritz and others
said, "Well, come on.
"Just give us a year to try
this."
Well, they're not setting us up
for a very good year to be very
impressed.
>> Barnes: Yeah, yeah. Bill?
>> Dries: Mayor, on that note
there's a great deal of concern
among county school parents
about the staffing levels.
If the school board were to make
a decision to specifically fund
and keep the staffing levels
where the county schools ratios
are now, Commissioner Steve
Basar in particular has talked
about trying to work out
something where possible on a
one year basis some of the sales
tax revenue from the suburban
municipalities might be chipped
in to go toward that.
Is that something you're
agreeable to?
>> MsDonald: I haven't heard
anything from him about that.
So, you're telling me this right
now is the first I've heard of
that.
And I would need some time to
think about that.
I'm not sure.
You know, our folks, again,
voted for the sales tax revenue
on the basis of local control.
So, my knee-jerk reaction to the
first time I've heard this would
be, "I don't think so."
But again, this is the first I'm
hearing of that.
>> Dries: Commissioner Ritz,
what do you think about that?
Are there other revenue sources
whether it's the suburban sales
tax revenue or something else?
Are there other revenue sources
available beyond the property
tax?
>> Ritz: No, not locally.
You know, we tried our half cent
sales tax to try to get $30
million for the schools.
We have failed pretty badly and
there will be some more state
funding, slightly more.
We get a little more money from
the state.
And frankly, the state funding
has carried the school boards
for the last seven years.
They've received $120 million
more honors per year than they
were getting in 2005.
>> Dries: So, out of what you're
trying to do with the tax rate,
you're trying to make up revenue
lost in the reappraisal process
in which values have dropped.
What is the amount of a 9.9
percent property tax hike that
the schools could realistically
expect?
>> Ritz: It would take seven
votes to do 9.99 percent.
That would produce essentially
$64 million.
It's 40 cents and with the new
appraisal, we expect a million
six per penny.
So that's 64 million.
But the appraisal itself, the
reappraisal cost to the county
at the county level is going to
be right at 53 million.
So, there's only 11 million left
and we've got to take care of
help the sheriff provide the
security and the city schools
and that situation over at the
juvenile court.
There's probably, at the moment,
with a 9.99 percent property tax
increase, $5 million for
schools. Five.
>> Barnes: So, that's just a
striking number.
So, I'm going to try to repeat
it a little bit because it is.
You know, the reappraisal isn't
official on the property
reappraisal but it's pretty
good.
But overall on average, property
values, residential and
commercial, are going down five
percent.
Just all things being equal in
the county budget, 9.9 percent
property tax increase is
necessary just to keep things
equal.
Is that right?
>> Ritz: No, no.
It would take.
9.99 percent equates to the
place where if you go a
hundredth of a percent more, you
got to get nine votes.
>> Barnes: Right, right.
>> Ritz: So, we use that because
we think we've got seven or
eight votes for something.
But the problem is it takes 33
cents of the 40 just to take
care of the $53 million or the
reappraisal.
We've only got seven cents of
fudge before we need nine votes.
>> Barnes: So, thank you.
And so, to get, I mean, the 145
million, which no one really..
We kind of all assume to take
seriously.
But even if it comes, the
numbers through the fall were
more in the 70 million.
Where does that 70 million come
from?
>> Ritz: Well, if we were..
We've been using sixty between
Orgel and the two
superintendents.
From me saying that's an
absolute farthest we can go and
I don't know if we can get
there.
That would require the property
tax increase for Shelby County
to be 74 cents.
>> Barnes: Yeah.
>> Ritz: 74 cents.
That would give the schools
their $60 million dollars.
>> Barnes: What about we talked
a little bit before the show and
it's been mentioned elsewhere.
This goes back.
The city of Memphis still owes
Memphis City Schools some $60
million or something like that.
>> Ritz: That's about right.
>> Barnes: That money hadn't
been paid.
>> Ritz: No.
>> Barnes: Would that fill the
gap at least for one year?
>> Ritz: If the city would pay
it.
>> Barnes: From your point of
view..
I'm putting you on the spot.
>> Ritz: Frankly, I've been
doing a lot of thinking about
all these things.
That's a possible source of
revenue for the school system.
I think, frankly, the City
Council and the city mayor are
waiting for the Memphis City
School business school district
to go out of business.
>> Barnes: That legal entity to
dissolve was part of this.
>> Ritz: When they go out of
business on the end of June,
they won't.
The people there, the money,
too, won't exist anymore.
>> Barnes: And if you heard
that..
I'm putting you on the spot,
too, about the city making that
payment.
I mean, is there any word?
Is there any movement within the
City Council?
Have you heard what Commissioner
Ritz just mentioned?
>> Dries: The only thing that
I've heard from the city front
is Mayor Wharton has said that
the city is considering some
kind of funding for security to
keep Memphis police officers in
the schools.
The problem with the $57 million
claim that we've heard so much
about is the city has other
counterclaims in court claiming
that they're owed a certain
amount by the city school system
for capital spending.
>> Barnes: Okay, okay.
Let's go back.
You mentioned local control,
Mayor McDonald.
There is a bill, a set of bills,
that Mark Norris, legislator
from Germantown-Collierville
area, um, has put forward to
allow to take the cap off of
special school districts in
Tennessee.
A lot of this was put in place,
I think, some 20-something years
ago.
This would be.
Take that cap off for the whole
state which is basically in my
layman's terms where the
previous Norris-Todd bill ran in
to trouble because the court
said, "Well, it's just targeting
Shelby County.
"It's not a state-wide law."
I assume you're in support of
that law.
If it got passed in this
legislative session, it wouldn't
go in to affect.
The soonest it would go in to
affect is 2014.
>> McDonald: Well, it could go
in to affect immediately as soon
as the governor signed it.
But the real effect is you
couldn't start the school system
on time.
So, you'd have to go to 2014.
And I just, with all due
respect, would say that it's the
municipal school district, not
the special school district
legislation.
There's a lot of confusion about
that.
Special school districts were
stopped back in the '80s.
The municipal schools were
stopped during the tiny town
legislation in the '90s.
That's when we got 1101, divided
up the counties and they said,
"You know, we're just going to
hold what we have right now."
So, for cities like Bartlett,
we've had it in our charter
since 1866 but never had our own
schools.
We had never taken that step.
But we had talked about it a
number of times.
And that caused the democrats in
control at that time some
heartburn that we might, in
fact, carry through with that.
And they put a ban on it which
they have the right to do.
They gave us the authority and
as a state, they have the right
to stop that authority.
But they also have the right to
give it back to us.
And that's what we're asking to
do is to say, "Okay, give us
back that authority we've had
since 1866."
>> Barnes: Right and thank you.
I get lost in the details on
some of the stuff.
I follow it pretty closely but
there are so many moving parts.
I've talked to folks in the
legislature.
They feel pretty comfortable,
pretty confident that they're
going to get this passed.
Is it, I mean, from some point
of view, is it maddening for you
that you all are going to get
dragged in, too?
Because you don't want to be
brought in to this.
Dragged in to this unified
school district.
You're frustrated by the way
it's playing out right now and
the funding situation and the
decision and lack of decision
making.
And then, you're going to
separate back out in a year.
I mean, does it seem like a lot
of wasted time, money and
resources?
Or is it just this is the hand
we've been dealt and you're
trying to do the best you can.
>> McDonald: Let me answer as a
mayor and then as a citizen.
>> Barnes: Okay.
>> McDonald: As a mayor, I fully
expected this to take a lot of
twists and turns.
And we won't be finished, you
know, when we do that.
Even though I don't believe the
County Commission has standing
to sue on the 14th amendment.
I don't think because until that
system exists, I don't think
that you can do that.
But somebody, I expect somebody
will be found to present that
14th amendment claim even if we
lift the ban.
So, I think we're not finished
with the courts even if we move
forward.
We may be finished with this
lawsuit with the courts.
But every municipality, uh,
would operate on the basis that
someone could come forward
claiming that this have a 14th
amendment effect and try to take
us to court.
So, as a mayor, I expect it-all
kinds of twists and turns.
We just want, also, at the same
time the municipal school
legislation is moving forward,
there's also charter school
legislation that we're also
interested in because if the,
uh, if the situation is that the
municipals for some reason don't
pass, the charter system that
would allow us to go to the
state rather than the LEA is
very interesting to us.
So, we have those things.
Now, as a citizen, you asked
about the costs.
You know, none of our citizens
like the fact that we're
spending this money.
Either the County Commission is
spending our money to sue us or
I'm spending our money to defend
ourselves against them.
None of our citizens are happy
about that.
And so, any additional cause for
attorneys getting more money is
frustrating as a citizen.
>> Barnes: Chairman, what about
that possibility?
I mean, I've tried to frame this
question the same way.
I mean, there's this
possibility, some would say
likelihood, that by 2014 in
affect that the school systems
would be able to, the suburban
school systems will be able to
break off.
It would happen before 2014 but
class year 2014.
I mean, does it frustrate you as
a person in the middle of this
that, you know, all of this
time, money and resources will
have been wasted if they break
off again?
>> Ritz: Well, I guess you could
say in some respects it is
frustrating because frankly, the
rules keep changing.
Our friends in the suburbs seem
to find somebody to get the
changes made.
We're a creature of the state,
so is the city of Bartlett.
And if they want to keep
changing the rules, okay.
We've been playing by the rules.
Um, we've been asking the judge
to enforce the rules and that's
exactly what he did.
He came down pretty *** one
of the Norris-Todd bills.
So, um, it is frustrating but we
don't know what the new laws are
going to bring.
I know there's a lot of
bullishness on a part of some
but interestingly, the suburbs..
I said this publically in 2011,
early 2011.
The suburbs could have gone to
charter schools then, right
then.
Uh, charter schools..
The governor had just been
elected.
He was liberalizing, if you
will, the charter school
situation across the state.
It had already been announced.
He had already thrown his bills
in the office.
They could have start running
charter schools.
They could already be running
charter schools.
>> Dries: But you two were
talking about this for about
three months over a three month,
two months, six to eight week
period about this.
And you couldn't come to terms
on it.
So, are we talking about
restarting the talks?
>> McDonald: That's why I said
we need to have clear work with
the state because here locally,
we're going to be entangled in
this constant fight over us and
them.
And that's going to go on
forever, I think.
So, we're going to have to look
to somebody else to, uh, have a
say in this over, uh, the
ability for us as a charter
municipality to do what we
believe we have the right to do.
And so, if that is done through
charter schools, and what
commissioner Ritz says is true,
we could have done it but it's
cumbersome.
We'd have to do it.
We have 11 schools in Bartlett
and we would have had to go to
each school and had the parents
or the teachers of each school
pass by 60 percent.
We would have had to create a
charter managing organization.
And so, what we looked to do is
a true municipal charter
organization as a backup.
But let's be clear.
Our first choice is municipal
schools.
That's why we didn't.
Would we go through that
eventually if that was all that
was left to us?-absolutely.
I've said we've got a lot of
things left, a lot of avenues
left.
So, I don't worry when one door
closes.
That just means we go to one of
the others.
And we might have to go to
charter schools for a while and
then back to municipal schools
later because as the legislative
body changes, the ability to get
certain laws through change.
>> Dries: Mister Chairman, let
me talk about could have and
should have.
Uh, Might the charter school
option that you all were talking
about have worked if they had
been able to negotiate directly
with the school board?
>> Ritz: They have authority to
do that right now.
They could have done it in '11.
They could have done it where
they sat down with us in early
December.
And they could do it right now,
today.
>> Barnes: Let me ask you a
question, Chairman Ritz, as we
get to the last couple of
minutes to the show.
Um, let's play this with me for
a second.
Let's play it out and let's say
that one way or another, as
Mayor McDonald just said, that
they exit the unified school
board, the suburbs do.
Okay, and then it's pretty much
back to the same set of schools
that were the old Memphis school
system.
But now with the funding body
primarily, the city funding body
out, okay?
And you have a much bigger role
as, the County Commission does
because of this new school
district.
You are frustrated.
It's interesting to hear.
You're frustrated with some of
the moves of the suburbs.
You're also frustrated with the
moves of the school board, that
they're not moving fast enough
and so on.
So, do you see over the long-
term that what's left of the
city schools is going to be in
better shape or worse shape as a
result of this whole process?
>> Ritz: I don't know.
Uh, frankly, you sometimes
wonder what's going to survive
here.
As the mayor mentioned, there
are-
You and him both kind of use the
suburbs as one cohesive little
group of folks.
Quite frankly, they've got
considerably different resources
available and needs and
leadership issues.
And I don't see it all being
just a bed of roses out there.
There are differences between
the suburbs.
Two of the suburbs..
Well actually, three of the
suburbs don't have many
resources at all.
They don't have much property
tax.
They don't have much sales tax.
Arlington, if they were put in a
municipal school district in
place, would have an $8 property
tax increase.
>> Barnes: Yeah, a lot to sort
out.
We're running out of time today.
I want to thank you for being
here, Mayor McDonald.
Thank you for being here.
I appreciate the discussion.
Bill, thank you.
Thank you for joining us.
Join us again next week.
Goodnight.
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♪♪♪