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>> ADVOCATES FOR ADDITIONAL EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION AND
FUNDING ARE CONTINUING TO PUSH A PROPOSAL THAT WOULD TAP MORE
REVENUE FROM THE LAND GRANT PERMANENT FUND, BUT NOW LAND
COMMISSIONER RAY POWELL IS FLOATING ANOTHER IDEA.
THE STATE SHOULD ACQUIRE MORE FEDERAL LAND AND DEVELOP IT.
MORE THAN 40% OF LAND IN NEW MEXICO IS OWNED BY THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT, AS A REMINDER. MR. POWELL'S IDEA IS TO CREATE
A NEW SUSTAINABLE FUNDING STREAM FOR ONLY CHILDHOOD
EDUCATION BY ACQUIRING SOME OF THE 1 MILLION ACRES DESIGNATED
AS DISPOSABLE LAND, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A SECOND, BY THE
FEDS AND FIND WAYS TO CREATE REVENUE.
HE PLANS TO PUSH THE IDEA IN THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION BUT
SOME CRITICS SAY IT IS UNREALISTIC AND COULD TAKE TOO
LONG TO GET THE RESULTS NEW MEXICO NEEDS RIGHT NOW.
JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THIS AND OTHER NEWS OF THE WEEK IS
ONE OF THE LINE REGULARS, ROB NIKOLEWSKI, THE NEW MEXICO
WATCHDOG, AND ANOTHER REGULAR, TOM GARRITY OF THE GARRITY
GROUP IS HERE AS WELL. RETURNING IS OUR REGULAR LAURA
SANCHEZ, CEO OF NEW MEXICO GREEN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.
AND WE'RE VERY PLEASED TO BRING BACK ANTOINETTE SEDILLO
LOPEZ, LAW PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO.
ROB, YOU WROTE ABOUT THIS IDEA THAT IS KIND OF GOING AROUND
THE WEST. WE'RE NOT THE ONLY STATE TO
THINK ABOUT IT. WE HAVE A LOT OF FEDERAL LAND,
SOMETHING COULD BE BETTER DONE WITH IT.
EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION IS THE GOAL AND THE MECHANISM
HERE IS TO DEVELOP LAND THAT IS CLOSE URBAN AREAS OR IF
THEY ARE NOT URBAN AREAS, DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH IT,
GRAZING, OIL AND GAS, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.
THE IDEA IS THIS COULD BRING A SEPARATE REVENUE SOURCE TO
SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, DOES THAT
STRIKE YOU AS A REASONABLE IDEA?
IS THERE ENOUGH MONEY FIRST OF ALL TO DO THIS?
>> I THINK WE SHOULD GIVE KUDOS TO MR. POWELL FOR COMING
UP WITH THIS IDEA BECAUSE IT IS AN IDEA THAT HAS BEEN
FLOATED AROUND. IN FACT, YVETTE HARRELL,
REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE ALAMOGORDO AREA BROUGHT IT
UP AND SHE CO-SPONSORED A BILL WITH RICHARD MARTINEZ,
DEMOCRAT, FROM THE ESPANOLA AREA.
I THINK IT IS DEFINITELY WORTH THINKING ABOUT AND DEFINITELY
WORTH DISCUSSING. NOW SOME OF THE CRITICS SAY,
THIS IS GOING TO TAKE -- THERE IS TOO MANY HURDLES IN FRONT
OF IT, BUT EVEN IF YOU WANTED TO TAP -- LET'S SAY YOU WANTED
TO TAP THE LAND GRANT PERMANENT FUND.
EVEN IF YOU DID THAT, THAT WOULD TAKE TIME.
YOU WOULD HAVE TO CLEAR A LOT OF HURDLES WITH THAT AS WELL.
I DON'T THINK ANYTHING IS WRONG WITH DISCUSSING THIS
ISSUE. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ARGUE
WHETHER OR NOT EARLY CHILDHOOD PLAN IS A GOOD ONE OR NOT BUT
AT LEAST IT IS SOMETHING THAT GETS US OFF THE DIME.
>> TAKE THE URBAN PORTION FIRST OF THIS LAURA RATHER
THAN THE OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE.
LAS CRUCES WAS MENTIONED, NEAR SOCORRO WAS MENTIONED.
THERE WAS SOME OPPORTUNITIES THERE.
BUT WE HAVE AN INTERESTING EXAMPLE RIGHT SOUTH OF
ALBUQUERQUE WITH MESA DEL SOL WHICH WAS A PREVIOUS LAND
COMMISSIONER DEAL FOR US HERE, BUT THAT HASN'T QUITE WORKED
OUT QUITE WELL. SHOULD WE TAKE ANY CLUES FROM
MESA DEL SOL FROM MR. POWELL'S IDEA OR IS THAT A SEPARATE
DEAL ALTOGETHER? >> I THINK IT IS ONE OF THE
FIRST OF ITS KIND AND I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO LEARN FROM
THAT DEAL IN TERMS OF HOW IT HAS WORKED, BUT IT IS ALSO A
VERY YOUNG OPPORTUNITY, I THINK, ONE THAT IS STILL IN
DEVELOPMENT. I MEAN, MEANING THAT WE REALLY
HAVEN'T SEEN THE TOTAL EFFECTS OF IT.
I DON'T THINK, IN GENERAL, A LOT OF WHAT HAS BEEN PROMISED
AT MESA DEL SOL HAS NOT COME TO FRUITION YET, BUT WE HAVE
TO TAKE A WAIT AND SEE APPROACH TO SEE HOW THAT
TRANSLATES INTO ACTUAL BENEFIT FOR THE STATE, BUT WE CAN
PROBABLY SEE SIMILAR SITUATIONS COMING UP IN PLACES
LIKE LAS CRUCES OR SOCORRO IF WE HAVE THE SAME KIND OF
STRUCTURE TO A MESA DEL SOL. ONE OF THE CONCERNS FROM THE
STATE LAND OFFICE PERSPECTIVE, CURRENT STATE LAND
COMMISSIONER, IS THAT IT WAS A SWEETHEART DEAL THAT WAS PART
OF IT, BECAUSE IT WAS A LAND SWAP THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO MAKE
AS MUCH SENSE FOR THE STATE BENEFIT.
SO, THE LAND THAT WAS SWAPPED AND I THINK THAT IS AN ISSUE
THAT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER IN WHAT THE
COMMISSIONER IS SAYING, BECAUSE SOME OF IT COULD
INVOLVE LAND SWAPS WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
THERE IS A LOT OF LAND UNDER BLM CONTROL AND MANAGEMENT.
AND DISPOSABLE LAND WE HAVE TO BE CLEAR IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY
DON'T HAVE VALUE. IT MEANS THEY DON'T FIT THE
MISSION OF BLM AS AN AGENCY AND THE WORK THEY DO.
SOME OF THE LAND COULD BE DEVELOPED FOR RENEWABLE
ENERGY. A LOT OF RENEWABLE ENERGY
PROJECTS NEED A LARGE LAND FOOTPRINT.
COULD BE THAT POSSIBILITY OR GRAZING.
IT COULD BE GRAZING. IT COULD BE RECREATION.
THERE IS OTHER TYPES OF USES. SO, I THINK IT IS WORTH
LOOKING AT IT, BUT THE STATE LAND OFFICE DOESN'T
NECESSARILY HAVE A LOT OF APPRAISERS THAT ARE PART OF
THEIR -- THEY HAVE A LIMITED NUMBER OF STAFF SO I THINK
THAT IS A BIG CHALLENGE YOU HAVE TO OVERCOME.
>> FORMER LAND COMMISSIONER JIM BACA PUSHED BACK A LITTLE
BIT, NOT CRAZY ABOUT THE IDEA AND HE MENTIONED WATER, BUT AS
FAR AS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS CONCERNED, GET AWAY FROM EARLY
CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, BUT ONE HAS TO BEFORE THE OTHER.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TO GET THAT MONEY
TO PUT INTO EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION.
IT IS AN INTERESTING IDEA, THIS STUFF THAT ABUTS URBAN
AREAS; MANUFACTURING. WE MENTIONED THIS A COUPLE
WEEKS IN ANOTHER ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH HAVING LAND NEAR URBAN AREAS THAT
COULD BE GROWN INTO A MANUFACTURING AREA.
COULD BE AN INTERESTING IDEA. >> I THINK IT IS AN
INTERESTING IDEA AND WHAT HE IS DOING, OBVIOUSLY, IS NOT
GOING TO SOLVE ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS BUT PUT AN IDEA OUT
THERE THAT IS GOING TO TAKE QUITE A WHILE.
I DON'T SEE ANY MONEY COMING IN FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS, AND
THAT IS IF EVERYTHING HAPPENS THAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN
THIS PLAN. BECAUSE, AS I SAID BEFORE, I
AM INTRIGUED HE THINKS HE HAS THE POLITICAL SKILL TO PULL
THIS OFF, BECAUSE IT TAKES A LOT.
>> YOU NEED THE HELP OF THE DELEGATION.
>> NEEDS THE WORK OF THE LEGISLATION, COOPERATION FROM
THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND IT WOULD TAKE A LOT TO DO WHAT
THEY SUGGESTS AND THAT IS EXCITING BUT IT IS ALSO A
CHALLENGE. >> TOM, IT IS INTERESTING TO
ME THAT SOMEONE IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT SOMETHING FOR
EDUCATION THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THE PERMANENT FUND BECAUSE WE
SEE A POINT OF WRESTLE MONEY OUT OF THE PERMANENT FUND OR
NOT. NOW THE IDEA IS TO GO AROUND
IT. MY QUESTION THERE IS THAT A
VIABLE WAY -- WHY CAN'T WE MAKE OUR PUSH FOR THE
PERMANENT FUND OR THAT IS A DEAD DUCK AT THIS POINT?
>> THAT FIGHT WAS FOUGHT IN THE PAST AND, YOU KNOW, ALL
SIDES I THINK REALIZED THAT PERHAPS IT IS LIKE THE ISSUE
IN IMMIGRATION. YOU KEEP GOING BACK AND
EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT AND USING THE SAME STRATEGIES.
COMMISSIONER POWELL IS NOT TALKING ABOUT SLICING UP THE
PIE BUT GROWING THE PIE AND THE LONG TERM FORESIGHT IN
TRYING TO GET THIS DONE, WHETHER IT TAKES FIVE YEARS OR
10 YEARS, IS, I THINK, REALLY STRONG.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW WE NEVER KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN
AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. AND, SO, IF WE CAN ACTUALLY
TAKE CONTROL OF SOME OF THOSE LANDS IN THE STATE OF NEW
MEXICO, AND THEN USE THEM TO GENERATE SOME ESTIMATES AS LOW
AS 10 TO 20 MILLION, SOME ESTIMATES AS HIGH AS 50, THAT
IS POTENTIAL REVENUE THAT COULD HELP EDUCATION,
HEALTHCARE, TRANSPORTATION, WHATEVER THE PRIORITIES ARE 10
YEARS FROM NOW. I REALLY LIKE THE WHOLE
CONCEPT AS A WHOLE. TO TOUCH ON LAURA'S COMMENT,
MESA DEL SOL, RAY POWELL, JR. CAME UP WITH THE WHOLE CONCEPT
AND JIM BACA WAS IN AS LAND COMMISSIONER AND THEN PAT
LYONS AND THE CONCEPT OF MESA DEL SOL HAS CHANGED
TREMENDOUSLY FROM WHEN COMMISSIONER POWELL WAS IN
OFFICE, THE FIRST TIME. SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK HE WOULD
LOVE TO SEE IF HE COULD TURN BACK THE HANDS OF TIME, BUT HE
CAN'T. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD LOOK
AT MESA DEL SOL TODAY AND SAY IT WAS A SUCCESS OR FAILURE
BECAUSE IT CHANGED SO MUCH. >> LONG-TERM.
AS LAURA MENTIONED, THERE IS A PROCESS TO THIS WITH THE LAND
COMMISSIONER WANTING TO GO TO LEGISLATURE, ASK FOR SOME
MONEY TO DO A FEASIBILITY STUDY, A GOOD AMOUNT OF MONEY,
AS A MATTER OF FACT, TO LOOK AT THIS.
ANTOINETTE'S POINT THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BY FEBRUARY.
IT IS A LONG-TERM THING. >> REPRESENTATIVE HARRELL, WHO
HAD HER OWN PLAN FOR TRANSFERRING SOME OF THESE
PUBLIC LANDS, THAT IS WHAT SHE IS ASKING FOR AS WELL, A
STUDY COMMITTEE TO ASSESS THIS ISSUE OUT.
THERE IS SOME HISTORY HERE TOO, BECAUSE JUST ABOUT EVERY
STATE EAST OF THE MISSISSIPPI USED TO HAVE THESE SITUATIONS
WHERE YOU HAD LOTS OF FEDERAL TRACTS OF LAND BUT THEN
EVENTUALLY THEY REVERTED OVER TO THE STATES, BUT HERE WEST
OF THE MISSISSIPPI, WE HAVE LARGE TRACTS OF LAND AND THAT
REVERSION HAS NOT HAPPENED. AND IT IS NOT LIKE THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN OVERSEEING THIS LAND AND TAKING GREAT
CARE OF IT. A LOT OF IT IS LEFT TO GO TO
SEED. >> ONE THING I WILL ADD
THOUGH, IN NEW MEXICO, WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THIS IDEA, JUST AT
LEAST IN TERMS OF GROWING THE PIE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT IS
LOOKING AT WAYS TO HAVE BETTER USE OF THIS LAND THAN WHAT IS
CURRENTLY ON THE BLM'S AT LEAST OUTLOOK.
SO FOR THEM TO DISPOSE OF THESE LANDS MEANS BEING ABLE
TO MANAGE OTHER AREAS THEY HAVE THAT ARE PART OF THEIR
MISSION. AND WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
HOW TO MAKE ECONOMIC USE OF THIS LAND, WHICH COULD BRING
ADDITIONAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FOR THE LOCAL
MUNICIPALITIES AND THAT WOULD BE HUGE FOR SOME OF THESE
ECONOMIES, AND, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF TO GIVE A
LITTLE BIT OF THUMBS UP TO OUR FEDERAL DELEGATION WHO IS
GOING TO BE IMPORTANT TO THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION.
I AM GLAD THE COMMISSIONER IS WORKING CLOSELY WITH THEM BUT
JUST TODAY AT TAPING, THERE IS AN ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THE ORGAN
MOUNTAINS DESERT PEAKS COULD BE A NATIONAL MONUMENT.
THERE IS ACTUALLY A FEDERAL BILL THAT GOT DRAFTED AND
INTRODUCED TODAY BY BOTH SENATORS AND I KNOW THEY
WORKED WITH THE STATE LAND COMMISSION TO TRY TO FIGURE
OUT HOW THOSE LINES SHOULD BE DRAWN TO INCLUDE CERTAIN LAND
THAT COULD BE STATE OR FEDERAL AND THAT IS A HUGE PART OF
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FOR AREAS LIKE DONA ANA COUNTY.
>> I AGREE. THAT IS INTERESTING.
A LOT OF CONSTITUENTS TO BE DEALT WITH, VERY INTERESTING.
WE NEED TO MOVE ON. IN A MOMENT BACK TO TALK ABOUT
MAINSTREAM COMMUNITIES AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.