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>>> WELCOME BACK TO THIS "DIALOGUE" WEB EXTRA.
I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN.
HERE WITH ROBERT McNULTY, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT FOR
PARTNERS FOR LIVABLE COMMUNITIES, NONPROFIT THAT
BRINGS TOGETHER PUBLIC AND PRIVATE ENTITIES TO HELP
REVITALIZE COMMUNITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY AND EVEN THE WORLD.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
I WANTED TO TALK MORE ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS A MAJOR
INITIATIVE OF PARTNERS, AND IS SOMETHING CALLED AGING IN
PLACE.
>> YES.
>> DEFINE A LITTLE ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS.
>> WE ARE IN THIS COUNTRY, AND MANY OF THE COUNTRIES IN THE
WORLD, PARTICULARLY EUROPE AND FREQUENTLY THE HUB OF COKOREA,
JAPAN, CHINA, DEMOGRAPHIC CURVE, WHERE OLDER PEOPLE,
PEOPLE OVER 55, GROWING AT AN EXPONENTIAL RATE.
ANYONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN URBAN AFFAIRS OR COMMUNITY OR
DESIGNER PLANNING WILL VERY EASILY REALIZE THAT THE MOMENT
THAT YOU LOSE YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE, OR THE MOMENT YOU HAVE
A MOBILITY CHALLENGE, OR THE MOMENT YOU HAVE A BELOVED
FAMILY MEMBER DIE AND YOUR HOUSE IS TOO LARGE, WE WILL BE
CONFRONTED ON A GROWING SCALE WITH PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO EITHER
MOVE OR ADJUST TO A CHANGING CIRCUMSTANCE.
SO, WHAT WE -- AND AARP HAVE FOUND THAT 95% OF PEOPLE IN
THIS COUNTRY HAVE SAID THAT THEY WOULD PREFER TO STAY IN
THEIR OWN HOME, THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I HATE TO SAY
IT BUT DIE AT HOME AS OPPOSED TO MOVE TWO, THREE TIMES AND
PASS AWAY IN AN INTENSIVE CARE FACILITY, NURSING HOME.
IF MOST OF US WISH TO PASS AWAY AT HOME, WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO
RETHINK OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, OUR DESIGN, OUR TRANSPORTATION, OUR
SOCIAL SERVICES, OUR HEALTH CARE DELIVERY, SO THAT WE CAN
ONE, MODIFY OUR HOME TO STAY THERE, HAVE SERVICES COME TO
OUR HOME, THAT THE COMMUNITY LIKE A VILLAGE HELPS CARE FOR
US TO ALLOW THAT TO OCCUR, AND THAT OUR DELIVERY OF SYSTEM,
FINANCIAL SUPPORT FOR THE OLDER PERSON IS DECOUPLED FROM
NURSING HOMES AND COUPLED INTO PROVIDING IN-HOME CARE SO THAT
WE CAN ALL LIVE THE GOAL THAT WE WANT TO PASS AWAY QUIETLY IN
OUR BED WITH OUR FAMILY GATHERED AROUND US.
>> JUST YESTERDAY, I WAS TAKING A WALK.
A WOMAN HELD ME DOWN AND SHE SAID, SHE WAS -- SHE WAS A VERY
ELDERLY WOMAN AND SHE WAS ON THE SIDEWALK, YOU KNOW, SAYING
CAN YOU HELP ME OPEN THIS BOTTLE?
IT WAS ASPERCREAM -- SHE HAD TO GO OUTSIDE AND GET SOMEBODY TO
HELP HER OPEN IT UP.
A WHOLE BUNCH OF EMOTIONS CAME TO ME AT THAT TIME.
OTHER THINGS WAS SHE ALONE HAVING TO DEAL WITH.
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE ANSWERS, DO YOU THINK?
>> I DESCRIBED THE BROAD AGENDA.
IF WE ALL WANT TO SOMEHOW BE PART OF A COMMUNITY, STAY AS
LONG AS POSSIBLE IN OUR OLD HOME OR APARTMENT, THEN WE NEED
TO RETHINK DESIGN AND PLANNING, SOCIAL SERVICES AND COMMUNITY
AND RELATIONSHIPS TO ALLOW THAT TO OCCUR.
>> IF YOU ARE GOING TO CREATE DENSER HOUSING OR PODS OR
ANYTHING, SOMEBODY IS GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE AT SOME POINT TO
THAT TYPE OF HOUSE.
>> AS AN EXAMPLE, I'M SURE IN MOST COMMUNITIES IN IDAHO, THE
SINGLE FAMILY, SINGLE HOUSE ZONING UNIT IS ENTRENCHED IN
PEOPLE'S BELIEF OF PROPERTY VALUES.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN DIMENSION OF PROPERTY.
ONLY ONE FAMILY CAN LIVE THERE.
YOU CANNOT MORE DENSELY DEVELOP THAT.
WELL, THE REALITY IS, THE LARGEST PRODUCERS OF HOUSING IN
AMERICA, DESIGNING WHAT THEY CALL A POD, THAT YOU CAN
INSTALL ON THE BACK YARD OF AN EXISTING HOUSE THAT WOULD ALLOW
AN ELDER FAMILY MEMBER, EITHER YOU WITH A CARE PROVIDER, OR
YOUR GRANDMOTHER, AUNT TO BE THERE AND HAVE AN INDEPENDENCE
BUT BE CONNECTED TO YOU BY 10 FEET AWAY SO THAT YOU HAVE AN
INNER DEPENDENCE.
UNDER MOST MUNICIPAL CODES, THAT IS AGAINST THE LAW NOW.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RE-EXAMINE, NOT BECAUSE WE WANT
TO TAKE AWAY PROPERTY RIGHTS, BUT RE-EXAMINE, BECAUSE I THINK
IT WILL INCREASE THE VALUE OF THE HOUSE IF THERE IS A EKS --
AUXILIARY HOUSING UNIT -- >> THEY PUT THEM ON WHEELS,
CONSIDERED TO BE MOBILE HOMES.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> ARE WE GOING TO SEE BACK TO A -- TO A COMMUNAL SETTING
WHERE ALL AGE GROUPS ARE GOING TO BE LIVING TOGETHER?
YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE DON'T HAVE FAMILIES THAT ARE GOING TO
TAKE CARE OF THEM.
MAYBE YOUNG PEOPLE -- >> THERE WILL BE MORE TYPES OF
HOUSING.
COOPERATIVE HOUSING, INNER GENERATIONAL HOUSING.
GROUP HOUSING.
DIVERSE HOUSING, AND DIVERSE MORTGAGE PRODUCTS --
>> IT HAS TO MAKE SENSE FINANCIALLY FOR THE BANKS,
LENDERS, AND DEVELOPERS TO DO THAT.
>> BANKS DO NOT HAVE LENDING MORTGAGE PACKAGES.
FANNIE MAE OR FREDDIE MAC DOES NOT HAVE A PORTFOLIO THAT THEY
CAN PURCHASE.
WE WILL HAVE TO CHANGE THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM, AND ZONING
SYSTEM.
KB HOMES, BEGINNING TO BE THE ONES THAT WANT TO CHANGE THE
SYSTEM -- >> SOME PEOPLE REALLY DON'T
LIKE THAT DENSE HOUSING.
THEY DON'T LIKE TO BE NEAR IT AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE
TO LIVE IN IT.
THEY DON'T LIKE TO HEAR NOISES FROM OTHER PEOPLE.
>> AND THEN THE OTHER OPTION IS TO DECOUPLE THE FEDERAL FUNDING
FOR MEDICAID FOR ELDERLY, INFIRM PEOPLE FROM A NURSING
HOME TO A DELIVERY OF SERVICES IN YOUR HOME.
IN SCANDINAVIA, EVERY SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRY, EVEN VERY
RURAL AREAS, IN-HOME HEALTH SUPPORT FOR AN OLDER PERSON.
THAT IS NOT SOCIALISM.
THAT IS JUST COMMON SENSE.
>> AND THEY DO HAVE, I'VE SEEN A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT COMMUNAL
HOUSING THERE, TOO, WHICH IS VERY INTERESTING.
>> YEAH.
SO TRANSPORTATION HAS TO CHANGE.
>> TRANSPORTATION IS HUGE.
>> IT HAS TO CHANGE.
>> WE DO HAVE VANS, NOT ALWAYS IN THE RURAL AREAS.
WE HAVE MEALS ON WHEELS.
>> AND WE HAVE STATE WAIVERS OF LIABILITY FOR VOLUNTEER DRIVERS
WORKING WITH INTERFAITH GROUPS USING CHURCH VEHICLES OF
TRANSPORTING PEOPLE BACK AND FORTH.
11 STATES HAVE PASSED A LAW THAT ALLOWS FOR COMPLETE, NO
LIABILITY OF VOLUNTEER DRIVERS WORKING WITH NONPROFIT OR
FAITH-BASED ORGANIZATIONS TO BE A TRANSPORTATION VOLUNTEER FOR
RURAL OR INNER CITY ELDERS.
MORE STATES NEED TO LOOK AT THAT TO GET MORE FAITH
CONGREGATIONS AND MORE VOLUNTEERS TO BE DRIVING
SUPPORT FOR PEOPLE DIALYSIS TO GOING TO AN ARTS PROGRAM.
>> WHAT ABOUT ROBOTS OUT INTO THE FUTURE?
YOU KNOW, CHECKING IN ON YOU, AND -- IT SOUNDS FAR-FETCHED.
BUT I KNOW THAT IN SOME ASIAN COUNTRIES, THEY ALREADY STARTED
TO LOOK AT -- >> TRUE.
YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TARGET.
I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU A SLIGHT U-TURN.
THE COFOUNDER OF AOL SERVES ON OUR AGING ADVISORY BODY.
HE SAID THE NUMBER ONE ADVANCEMENT OF
TELECOMMUNICATION FIRMS WILL BE MONITORS THAT WILL BE IN THE
HOME, ALLOW A DISTANT RELATIVE TO SEE WHETHER THEIR
GRANDMOTHER TURNED THE STOVE OFF, WHETHER SHE GOT OUT OF THE
BED.
WHETHER SHE IS TALKING AROUND THE APARTMENT AND WHETHER THEY
NEED TO CALL FOR ANY SUPPORT.
>> WHAT HER TEMPERATURE MIGHT BE.
>> EXACTLY.
SHE SAID THAT WILL BE THE GROWTH OF THE TELECOMMUNICATION
FIRMS, HUGE, NEW MARKET OF RELIANCE, MONITORING OF OLDER
PEOPLE FROM DISTANCE SO THAT RELATIVES CAN MONITOR THEIR
HEALTH AND WELL BEING.
HE IS INVESTING IN ALL OF THOSE START-UP FIRMS, HE SAID.
>> WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN THE MAIN PROGRAM, BUT ALSO THIS
IDEA FOR OLDER PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL COMPETENT, I GUESS IS THE
BEST WORD, THERE IS SOME EKS EXCITING IDEAS PLACING HOUSING
NEAR UNIVERSITIES, LIBRARIES, MAYBE EVEN IN A UNIVERSITY
SETTING, SO PEOPLE CAN GET THE LIFE-LONG LEARNING --
>> LIBRARY -- FOUR LIBRARY SYSTEMS LED BY ST. PAUL ARE
ACTUALLY BUILDING NOW LIBRARIES WITH ELDER AFFORDABLE HOUSING
AS PART OF THE LIBRARY.
ALTHOUGH HAVE TO DO IS WALK DOWNSTAIRS OR TAKE THE ELEVATOR
DOWN STAIRS.
THE MEALS ON WHEELS IS SERVING THE FOOD IN THE LIBRARY AND
INVITING EVERYONE IN THE LIBRARY TO SHARE A COMMON LUNCH
TOGETHER.
>> IT HAS BEEN MY SENSE, REINVENTION OF THE LIBRARY,
ALMOST LIKE -- >> IT IS.
>> FORCE THAT WE HAVE IN OUR COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.
NOT EVERYONE GOES TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS ANYMORE, BUT MOST
PEOPLE AT SOME POINT HAVE TOUCHED THE LIBRARY.
>> AND COMMUNITY COLLEGES, COLLEGES, UNIVERSITIES
INCREASINGLY ARE SAYING HOW CAN WE CREATE A HOUSING AGENDA ON
OR BY OUR CAMPUS OF INDEPENDENT LIVING, DEPENDENT LIVING,
SUPPORTIVE LIVING, HOSPICE USING OUR MEDICAL SCHOOL AS A
RESOURCE, AND -- >> TRAINING.
>> OFFER AUDITING SPORTS, RECREATION, SO THAT WHEN THESE
WONDERFUL OLDER PEOPLE THAT COME TO LOVE OUR UNIVERSITY
PASS AWAY, THEY LEAVE MONEY TO OUR ENDOWMENT FUND, CLEMSON,
MICHIGAN STATE, BOWDOIN COLLEGE BUILDING HOUSING ON THEIR
CAMPUSESES FOR THE OLDER INDIVIDUAL.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT PAYING FOR THINGS.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE IN COMMUNITIES, PEOPLE HAVE RAISED THEIR
CHILDREN OR MAYBE NEVER HAD CHILDREN AND THEY'RE OLDER NOW
AND THEY ARE LIKE I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR ALL OF THESE THINGS.
>> YEAH.
>> AND ENGAGING THE RETIREE SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION IN
UNDERSTANDING -- THEY'RE WORRIED -- THEY'RE LIVING ON
LIMITED INCOMES.
WHEN BONDS GET PASSED TO DO THINGS, IT'S *** THEM.
>> THERE IS REALLY, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL TALKS ABOUT THE
BOOMERS AS IF THEY HAVE A LOT OF MONEY.
A LOT OF PEOPLE ON FIXED INCOMES THAT ARE POOR.
THE POOR ELDERLY AND MIDDLE CLASS ELDERLY AND WE WILL LEAVE
OUT THE VERY WEALTHY ELDERLY.
MIDDLE CLASS ELDERLY, COMPETED ON TO RETIRE AND MOVE TO -- TO
MOVE TO CHATTANOOGA OR MOVE TO SARASOTA, FLORIDA.
THEY'RE A VERY VALUABLE COMMODITY.
IT WILL CHANGE A RETAIL MIX DOWNTOWN.
IT WILL CHANGE THE PERCENT OF SHOPPING SERVICES, BUT
COMMUNITIES ARE ALREADY DOING STUDIES OF HOW THEY CAN
REPOPULATE WITH DIFFERENT TYPES OF STORES.
THEIR MAIN STREET THAT WILL APPEAL TO THE OLDER INDIVIDUAL,
AND THEY'RE COMPETING FIERCELY FOR THIS TYPE OF PERSON.
BUT NO ONE IS REALLY LOOKING AFTER THE OLDER, LOW-INCOME
INDIVIDUAL.
THAT IS WHERE I THINK UNITED WAY, VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA,
SALVATION ARMY, COMMUNITY PHILANTHROPY, HEALTH CARE
CONVERSION FOUNDATIONS, NEED TO ENSURE THIS IS NOT AN EQUITY
AGENDA, WE'RE BENEFITING THE MIDDLE CLASS, EDUCATED ELDER,
BUT FORGOTTEN, PUTTING UNDER THE CARPET THE LOW INCOME AND
NEEDY ELDER.
PARTICULARLY AS IMMIGRANTS BECOME A LARGER PART OF THE
POPULATION, THEIR OLDER PARENTS WILL BE HERE AND WE THEN WILL
HAVE A CULTURAL CHALLENGE OF HOW YOU, FOR EXAMPLE, WORKING
IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY -- >> MARYLAND.
>> MARYLAND, WITH A LARGE INDIAN POPULATION, AND THEY
FIND IT CULTURALLY EMBARRASSING TO ASK THE GOVERNMENT FOR ANY
SERVICES FOR THEIR ELDERLY MOTHER AND FATHER.
ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL.
YOU NEED TO ADAPT THE SUPPORT OF THE OLDER PERSON TO THE
CULTURE AND COMMUNITY'S NEED.
>> DIVISIVENESS THAT CAN HAPPEN BETWEEN GENERATIONS.
ONE GENERATION FEELS IT HAS DONE IT -- IT HAS MADE ITS
PAYMENT TO SOCIETY.
>> YES.
>> AND THEN IT IS BEING ASKED TO HELP SUPPORT BOND ISSUES AND
OTHER THINGS.
>> YES.
THAT HAS BECOME A MAJOR ISSUE IN ENGLAND.
MINISTER OF EDUCATION IN ENGLAND HAS WRITTEN A BOOK ON,
YOU KNOW, WILL THIS BE GENERATIONAL WARFARE?
BUT IN AMERICA, I HAVE NOT HEARD THAT THAT MUCH IN
AMERICA.
IT IS MORE COMMON IN EUROPE AND PARTICULARLY IN ENGLAND, THAT
THE -- >> WHAT IF YOU COULD MAYBE SHOW
AN OLDER POPULATION AN AREA THAT A SCHOOL BOND MIGHT ALSO
INCLUDE A WORKOUT CENTER FOR OLDER PEOPLE?
THERE IS SOME NEXUS BETWEEN WHAT THEY'RE PAYING FOR AND
WHAT THEY'RE GETTING?
A GOOD SCHOOL BOND, TURN THE SENIOR, COMMUNITY CENTER IN THE
SCHOOL AND MAKE IT A WIN-WIN.
THE PARKS BONDS WOULD BASICALLY -- PARKS CAN BE VERY
FRIENDLY TO THE OLDER PERSON IF THERE IS AN ARCHITECT,
LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT THAT WALKS THE GROUNDS WITH THEM TO ENSURE
THAT THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE ON THE SURFACE, ON THE WALKING,
AND PERHAPS EVEN IN CERTAIN TYPES OF THINGS.
SO, I THINK WE ALL NEED TO BE MORE CLEVER IN PACKAGING OUR
REFERENDUMS AND OUR BOND ISSUES TO ENSURE THERE IS SOMETHING
FOR EVERYONE.
BUT, REMEMBER, THAT IF EVERY JURISDICTION HAD YOUNG CHILDREN
IN SCHOOL IT WOULD BE BANKRUPT.
YOU NEED A CERTAIN EXTENT OF PEOPLE WITHOUT CHILDREN, OLDER
PEOPLE STILL PAYING TAXES SO THAT WE CAN SUPPORT THE SCHOOL
SYSTEM.
AT THE SAME TIME, YOU NEED TO HAVE AMENITIES FOR THE OLDER
PERSON FOR THE OLDER PERSON TO WANT TO STAY WITHIN THAT
COMMUNITY IF THEY ARE NOT RECEIVING ANY BENEFITS.
>> MAYBE WE WILL SEE COMMUNITIES WRITING A CHECK TO
PEOPLE OVER 65 TO COME LIVE THERE --
>> THE GOVERNOR OF GEORGIA, WHO IS NOT EXACTLY A LIBERAL, HE
SAID EVERY MISSISSIPPI TOWN -- SMALL TOWN WITH A NICE HISTORIC
CENTER, A LAKE WITH A BOAT DOCK, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO
ATTRACT THOSE RETIREES BECAUSE OUR HOUSING COST IS A LOT
CHEAPER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN AMERICA.
>> AS WE WRAP UP, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS BOOM THAT IS HAPPENING,
THE AGING BOOM, ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC?
IT SOUNDS LIKE ULTIMATELY THAT IS YOUR PERSONALITY STYLE, THAT
THESE THINGS CAN BE WORKED OUT OR DO YOU THINK WE'RE HEADED
FOR SOMETHING -- I MEAN, WE HEAR A LOT OF KA TRCATASTROPHKA TA --
>> WORKING WITH METLIFE, ASSOCIATION ON AGING, I'M
SEEING THE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO DO SOMETHING AS OPPOSED TO
PEOPLE WHO DON'T.
I'VE LIVED IN THE SAME HOUSE IN MARYLAND, SINCE 1970.
I'M 73.
I'M STILL WORKING.
I'M SORT OF VITAL AND I PLAN TO PASS AWAY IN BED IN MY HOME.
>> THAT WAS MY FINAL QUESTION --
>> I HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THIS SUCCEEDING.
>> HAVE YOU HAD TO MODIFY YOUR HOME AT ALL?
>> NO, BUT MY WIFE AND I ARE ABOUT TO PUT THOSE
MODIFICATIONS IN, IF WE ARE IN A WHEELCHAIR, WE CAN COME IN PR
THE BACK, BEDROOM ON THE GROUND FLOOR AND ENJOY HAVING OUR
NEIGHBORS OVER FOR DINNER.
>> THERE IS MORE INFORMATION ON YOUR AGING IN PLACE INITIATIVE
ON THE WEB SITE WHICH WE WILL LINK TO.
THANK YOU FOR STAYING TO TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE A LITTLE BIT
MORE IN THE WEB EXTRA.
>> THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY.
OBVIOUSLY IT MEANS SOMETHING TO ME.
>> ALL OF US ARE GOING TO GROW OLDER.
>> THE OTHER OPTION IS NOT ONE THAT YOU WISH TO HAVE --
>> IT CERTAINLY IS NOT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
YOU HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO ROBERT McNULTY, FOUNDER AND
PRESIDENT FOR PARTNERS FOR LIVABLE COMMUNITIES.
I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN.
THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN TO THIS "DIALOGUE" WEB EXTRA.