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[DC] I'm Deepak Chopra. You're watching One World with Deepak Chopra brought to you from
Deepak Home Base in New York City, and my very special guest today is Michael Lazerow. He's
known as a pioneer in the dotcom world, digital marketing, multimedia, founded and created
Buddymedia. That was your latest company? [ML] That was our latest, yeah.
[DC] And you had three other big enterprises like that before.
[ML] I did, yeah. I actually was trained as a journalist and thought I was gonna be a
journalist and realized really in 1996 that journalism as we know it is going away and
this thing called the internet has started. [DC] So what was your first company?
[ML] First company was called University Wire and I was a student in the Northwestern University
in Chicago. It was the only school I got into. The other ones didn't really want me.
[DC] I teach there, by the way. [ML] I know that. [DC] At the business school. [ML] And so I went to the journalism
school. I'd done high school newspaper and I created a company that connected 700 campus
newspapers together right as the internet was taking off. When I started at Northwestern,
there was no email. We now go to sleep with a phone in our hand, we wake up with two phones
in our hand. W live digitally. At the time... [DC] But then you know, didn't the bubble
also happen? The internet crisis and everything else of these start-ups.
[ML] Absolutely. 1996 was the year I graduated. That was the year that Netscape and all these
companies went public and then 2000, the good times ended. But issue was that people started
and continued to live digitally. So more and more people going online, transacting online,
making their life easier. [DC] So this first company, again, what was
it called? [ML] University Wire.
[DC] And that was a, kind of a, news service? [ML] It was news service now owned by CBS.
It was bought by CBS. And then we got into the golf business. Golf.com seemed like a
good name and we bought the golf.com URL from NBC sports and we grew that and sold that
to Time Warner and that was in 2005 and then this little thing called Facebook came along
and I was infatuated with Facebook. I was one of the first 2, 3, 4, 5 million people on Facebook
and I thought it was phenomenal. Men don't necessarily like to talk to each other on the phone. It was a great way to connect. I really fell in love
with that business and built the marketing business on the back of Facebook which was
Buddymedia. [DC] Okay, so that's how Buddymedia came.
It's a marketing, internet business. [ML]We help companies figure out how do they
connect with people on social media sites. You're so good at it, right? You put up content
and content is what glues you to everyone who loves you and every company needs to do that.
Every company needs to put out content that people care about. It isn't necessarily
about their company but about making their customers' lives better, the world better
and we help companies do that on Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and other platforms.
[DC]I'm still not clear. What is Twitter's revenue model? It's going public now. What's
their model? [ML]Right now, their model is advertising.
They have 250 million people who are addicted to Twitter. Some of them publish but more
of them use it as their daily newspaper, they're always on newspaper, it's coming in, their
friends, companies and news sources. [DC]So they're sponsored advertising?
[ML]So it's ads. You know, advertising is a business model that's held up for 500 years
and if you can amass an audience big enough, in this case, hundreds of millions, you will
find a way to make money. Whether it's a hundred billion dollar business like Facebook is today
or a ten billion dollar business, I don't know, but it is a business.
[DC]I read somewhere, that people are not so responsive to advertising as they are to
just word-of-mouth. Is that true? [ML]Absolutely, I mean, just walking here
today in New York City, how many ads did you see? You probably saw a thousand ads. You
walk about 10 miles a day in New York, so you'd probably see a 100,000 ads. W tune that off.
[DC]So what creates a successful internet marketing strategy?
[ML]The key to marketing, to media, to relationships is just content. It's just about how do you
put up content that people care about, that makes them laugh, that makes them feel and
makes their lives better because its utility information and we're in a world where the
content you get from the companies you like sometimes is better than the media companies.
You know, lot of the media companies, it's all reality TV and you know, stuff that is
just a formula that it's a race to the bottom where you have brands like Dove with their last
campaign about real beauty, right? Their insight was... [DC]Yes, that was an amazing campaign.
[ML]That was amazing. They realized that only 4% of all women globally think they're beautiful.
And as a company, Unilever, they said, "That's our mission. Our mission is to help
women feel better." They put on a video that was watched 200 million times. More that Gaga,
more that Bono, more than these rock stars, right? I love that. That's a soap company.
They clean your body, right? [DC]But in this case, they resurrected the
soul, in a sense. [ML]That's incredible. That's what marketing
is. Marketing is how do you just create content that people adore and in many ways, it's getting
out of your own way as a company. [DC]And digital marketing, in a sense, is
a global marketing. So you could have somebody in Asia market to an American audience, right?
[ML]Absolutely, that's the power of Facebook. So when we created Buddymedia, we had to have
offices in London, Singapore and San Francisco and all over the world because by the time
we sold the business to SalesForce, there were a billion people on Facebook. Now that
has never happened before. Newspaper, you have to go location by location buying it.
TV is a local business that you have to buy locally. All of a sudden you can show up and
publish content if you're a Unilever to a billion people [DC] Anywhere. [ML] And I think that that's what's
happening. Quality shines. So you looking at content that you're putting up, you're
looking at how you're engaging with the world and the reason people love it is just quality.
It shines like a pile of diamonds. Everything else is just explained away. So quality content,
quality engagement is how the world goes around. [DC]SalesForce now uses Buddymedia to do
marketing for themselves, or is actually a service to others? [ML]Yeah, so SalesForce was a client of Buddymedia
and as we grew, they decided that they wanted to get into the marketing business, about
a year ago they acquired Buddymedia. So Buddymedia's owned by salesforce.com. we use it internally
to grow our business. Its one of the fastest growing software company. You know Mark.
[DC] I know Mark, yeah. [ML] It's an organization with a real soul.
People really connect with not only Mark but the company. We now sell our software to
companies all over the world and we engage consumers all over the world with our marketing
business. [DC]What's the secret of digital marketing,
if there is one? [ML]There are really three parts of digital
marketing that have to work together and it's unique. There is a whole science part, right?
It's the clicks, conversions, it's all the data that is thrown. Number two, it's the
tools, so it's not only the data, how do you get the content out there? How do you publish
content to people globally? So if someone comes to a Facebook page, how do you make
sure its in their language? Someone comes to your website and you're a global brand
like Dove, how do you make sure that they can read it, that it makes sense to them?
And the third, and really it's the same as it's been around for 500 years, it's story telling.
[DC] Storytelling. [ML] When data meets the right tools, meets the right story, that's where the magic happens. That's
what happened with the Dove Sketches, Real Beauty campaign.
[DC]They say facts coupled with story gives soul to facts. Suddenly they're not dry any
more. There's a soul there. [ML] It used to be in journalism school, they
used to say, "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story".
[DC ]I see. [ML] But now the data and the facts kind of
drive stories. And the interesting thing is, it's not about the content that you put out
there, it's about how people react to it and so, content that people don't react to is
basically worthless content. And so, as I tell our clients all the time, it's very simple
-- do what's working and do more of it and if its not working, don't do it. And at the
end of the day, you have to pay more attention to how things are received than how you're
throwing. It's more about being the receiver and how things are caught, then the quarterback.
And that's hard. We're used to as media companies as one way, we're used to as advertisers.
We're just gonna shout as loud as we can and eventually it'll get through the thick skulls
of these mythical consumers. Now you have to pay attention because they're talking back.
[DC]And your message has to have some kind of emotional resonance. These people today
are very concerned about the environment, about society, about social justice etc. So
the story has to be about a bigger thing than just the product or the service, you think?
[ML]Totally, and then not only that the story has to be entertaining, or something people
care about, or so compelling a story that people pay for it because we're bombarded with information.
We're not in a world with information overload. I love that I can go to Google, type something
in and within four milliseconds get the world's information on any device. That is awesome,
right? But we have filter failure, we have the inability to filter it out and that's our brains
are so trained to filter everything out, you have to get through that filter, you have
to be something that looks like it's entertaining and makes you laugh, or makes you feel, or makes
your life better to utility and that's hard for a lot of companies that have believed
in just one way -- let's just shout from the top of the mountain until people hear us.
[DC]You know, our mantra for this show is entertainment, education, enlightenment. We
kind of cover all these three areas. [ML]And I don't think it's a coincidence that
people are receiving your content so well because it does many of the things a great
content does. [DC]What do you see as the future of digital
entertainment versus the traditional TV, cable or network. Where do you see this going with?
[ML]I think we're moving into a post-digital world. And the post-digital world, is one there is no "digital", everything's
digital, and digital is mobile. So 1 billion smart phones in the world today, by 2017, we're gonna have
5 billion, if you believe Gartner and some of the data. And that's how we live. They're with us 16 hours a day on average. It's how
we get information, it's how we interact, it's our life in one device. It's the dashboard
to our life. And as a company you have to realize that your customers are not sitting
in front of a computer, they're not sitting in their house. They can work anywhere, they
can play anywhere, they can be anywhere and be connected to their friends, to their work,
to their media, everything and you need to get onto that phone, and if you're not, you
don't exist for that customer. [DC] You know, I have been, for three decades almost,
interested in how your emotions in your mind influences your biology. I've been talking
about it for three decades, but now with the new bio-sensors, where you can, you know,
with a little patch this big measure heart rate, heart variability, blood pressure, skin
resistance, galvanic skin response, brain waves. You can actually make, with the right
algorithms, and I'm speaking theoretically at the moment because we're doing some of
that ourselves, but we haven't yet come out with a product. With the right algorithms,
you can correlate emotional states with biological states and you can pick up that on a smart
phone, wirelessly and transmit it to your cardiologist in La Jolla for example and get
an immediate read-out and then correlate that with body chemistry, cholesterol levels, stress
levels. So I think we're going to see an era of bio-regulation that will go way beyond
what we've ever seen before and this is gonna change the way we do medicine. Digital medicine
is the next frontier. And you could be in Ghana and have your cardiologist in California
giving you instant feedback. [ML] Totally. You know, I think we're in a world where connected toilets
are gonna be big. I joke all the time but its really not a joke, you know. The new Philips
toothbrush is connected to the network. It's a WiFi enabled tooth brush. So my son Cole, who's nine, says
that he brushed his teeth and I could look at my app, actually you didn't. you haven't
turned it on, right? And all of a sudden, you know, when your toilet's connected, your
toilet spots something that's abnormal. It goes right to your doctor and that is making
our life better. When I was kid, I should not be here, I was in cardiac failure and I
should've died several times. [DC]I was gonna get to that. I was gonna get to that.
[ML]Today if that happened. They're operating, before I'm born, they're putting sensors in,
I'm fully connected to the network. [DC] Even simple sensors that measure how much
you exercise, the quality of sleep you got, the amount of sleep, they have a dramatic
impact on how you change your behavior with the feedback.
[ML]The whole mind-body thing is never been more provable, right?
[DC]Yes, yes. Finally. [ML]You pioneered it. Many of us believed
in kind of... [DC] Intuitively [ML] Yeah, our gut. And now you see, your mind is attached and there's no argument which is exciting.
[DC] For me, it is very exciting that the age of the digital self, the quantified
self has arrived, finally. So tell me about, you know, are you comfortable talking about your medical problems as you
grew up and how that influenced you? [ML]Sure, you're a doctor, right? So I'm very
comfortable. [DC] I'm an internist. [ML] And this is just between us, and everyone out on the internet.
[DC] That's fine. There's nothing secret any more, as you know. [ML] As I know.
My story is very simple, I was born with a bad heart, I had congenital heart defect and I
was in heart failure. [DC]What, Ventricular Septal Defect?
[ML]Yeah, VSD, Ventricular Septal Defect, which is a hole in between two ventricles which isn't good.
[DC]So you had a surgery as child? [ML]I didn't because at the time they weren't
operating in this type of procedure, this type of issue. Luckily, it closed enough, I was asymptomatic. I was in
congestive heart failure at 18 months and then again soon thereafter, then when I was 19, I had an artificial valve
put in, and I had the VSD close, and then 8 days later it all stopped working and I had emergency valve replacement.
That was a process that 20 years earlier, I would not be here, right? And so the mind body thing
to me has always been a big part of everything, because you know, before the surgery, when I was 19, I was relatively
heart charging and neurotic, Jewish kid from DC...
[DC]Not withstanding all the problems you were had with your physical health, you
were still going... [ML]Yeah, I was still... I mean, you know, I remember when I was
18 months going into congestive heart failure, it wasn't until I stared death, I should've died
three or four times, but I stared death in the face, you know, zero blood pressure, I'm being wheeled
into surgery and they do an emergency, valve replacement, that kind of changes your perspective. It
connects your mind to your body, and it connects your reason for being becomes with kind of I'm playing with borrowed time.
This is, "I'm in over time. I shouldn't be here", it changes everything. A lot of the decisions I was making
before that was based on fear, fear of what my parents would say, fear of what other people
would say, fear of the boogieman and I think that's what led me... I went back to school
after having the surgery and that's when I started the first company. I'm alive, what
can go bad, it goes out of business, okay, I'm still alive. And that has lead to the idea...
[DC] I wish everybody lived like that. [ML] It is something that has been a passion of
mine, just kind of speaking to people about because fear is a very powerful de-motivator.
[DC]Fear and greed are the basis of every problem we have in the world right now.
[ML] And fear is, we all are born and built with this great intuition. How many of your friends have said,
"I shouldn't listen to my gut?" They don't, they say, "If I'd only listened to my gut
things would have been..." And that's that intuition, it is a spiritual intuition...
[DC]Well, we know actually now that when we say, "I had a gut feeling about such and such,"
your gut makes the same chemicals that your brain makes, but your gut cells haven't yet
learnt how to doubt their own thinking. [ML]The second you have a gut feeling or reaction,
the next 10 minutes is talking yourself out of it. We're the best, I think, of any species at talking
ourselves out of our intuition. [DC] You know, I once interviewed Mr Ibuka, who is the founder if Sony Corporation,
credited with creating the first quarter of a trillion dollars for Sony and I said, "What's
the secret of your success?". He says, "I have this herbal tea that I drink before I'm
going to make a deal. If it goes right through, I go for it. If it gives me indigestion, I
don't touch it." [ML]I would argue with the key to his success
was that the first product that Sony ever came out with was a rice cooker. I'm big, I've studied the history of innovation. So they created
a rice cooker and it was the best rice cooker in the history of rice cookers. If
they had just stayed with the rice cooker, it would have been maybe a million dollar
business, right? And that's a company that has never been afraid to reinvent themselves. Reinvent and reinvent.
And that takes getting over fear, being brave, and say this is where I think the world is
going, this is what we're gonna do. [DC]Yeah, he was great visionary and he was
very body oriented. [ML]He was incredible. It's a great story,
I love that story, I tell that story a lot. [DC]You also tell that story. So what is the
secret of your success? [ML] The secret of my success. Most of it is, I'm a very lucky person.
I married the first woman who loved me which is true, I say it as a joke, she fell in love
when I wasn't looking to get married. I was 22, we were young, she was also doing the
internet business. [DC]Love inspires us all.
[ML]And I think that has grounded me, we have done all our companies together, we have a
shared life. I think a lot of the luck is around being able to see the opportunity that
presents itself. Not all of us are born into a time where there are massive shifts in human
behavior. So the internet being commercialized while I was in college was kind of a lucky
thing, but then being able to see that that's gonna be big and I'm gonna pursue that or
seeing Facebook and saying, "I think this thing Facebook is gonna be big one day" and
I think it's that kind of time, we all are given breaks, as individuals, as business
people, as dating people, as parents, do we take advantage of those? Do we jump on those
opportunities? Do we maximize the opportunities or do we let them pass by? And if you let
them go, you only get a few of them. [DC]Good luck is opportunity meeting preparedness,
right? [ML]Absolutely.
[DC]So let me ask you a few questions that will go deeper into your soul, if you will.
Who are you? Who is Michael Lazerow? [ML]I am very lucky.
[DC]What have been the happiest moments of your life?
[ML]The happiest moments in my life are when my kids and my wife are laughing. When they're
laughing, there's nothing better. The world is in harmony. They're not always laughing,
that's the problem. Specially about 8 AM when I'm trying to get them out of the house to
go to school but that's always when I'm in balance.
[DC]What's our life purpose? [ML]I think my life purpose is to create and
I come from a long line of builders. My grandfather built low income housing in the Baltimore
area, my dad, my stepdad they were entrepreneurs. My mom is a public interest lobbyist trying
to change all of the social injustice in the world and I look at what I've done and what
will go down as my legacy. It is creating stuff and giving. Those go hand in hand.
[DC]What makes you unique? What are your unique skills and talents?
[ML]I think I've been able to embrace my inner weird. We all are individuals and we all are
born weird and then we have industrial complex to normalize people.
[DC]The hypnosis of social conditioning. [ML]And what happens is, we grade on a bell
curve, we say you are in the 50 percentile in height, and we try to put everyone into this normalize path and I was able very early to
realize I think a little differently, I don't see the world like everyone else and kind
of embrace that to do stuff I probably shouldn't have done. I shouldn't have created a company
in college, I shouldn't have married the first woman who loved me, I shouldn't have launched
something on the college network like Facebook. But being able to embrace that inner weird
has helped me a lot. [DC]What do you think is the secret for happy
relationships? [ML]Relationships aren't always easy. The
key is you have to know how to love and more importantly, you have to know how to fight.
You have to know how to have a disagreement between two thinking individuals and move
on. Otherwise, it's never gonna work. So I look at life as it's always good and bad.
[DC]Contained conflict, eh? [ML]There's always good and bad of everything.
I think how you deal with the ups is huge, but how you deal with the bad is even bigger.
[DC]So you used two words that I kind of relate to. Gratitude in a way for being polite in
a sense, the gift of life and other of course you've used the word love a few times. Do
you feel reverence, humility. Do you think there's some reason behind this mystery that
we call life? [ML]I believe that a lot of what we believe
and what we hope for and what we wish for and what we dream, that's the spirituality.
Spirituality comes from within and that feeling of what you believe, to me it doesn't matter
what it is, I believe in this inner drive to do good, to be ethical, to work hard and
give and that ultimately is what matters. So just because we cant prove that there is
a God, doesn't mean we shouldn't believe it. [DC]Or at least feel the sense of reverence
and humility. [ML]So as an American Jew, we have a civilization,
we have a homeland in Israel, it's important to me, my identity... [DC] Continuity of life [ML]My identity, as a spiritual person is,
it is religious, but it really comes from here, it doesn't come from anywhere outside.
I think that's what keeps me going forward and its about tradition, it's about, kind of, thanking
the past, my heroes, my grandfather who died at 96 years old and, the day he retired was the
day he died. He was washing his car. And so he idea that you can live a good live and
leave the word net positive on the idea of giving, you've given more than you've received
is pretty important. [DC]Remembering the past, enjoying the present,
imagining the future. [ML]And he used to say, "if you've got one
foot in the past and one in the present you're going to... One in the future, one in the past, you're gonna *** on the present". He used to say
that all the time. You gotta me present, but you also have to know where you came from
and know where you're going. [DC]Michael Lazerow, internet pioneer, entrepreneur,
businessman, spiritual being, thank you for being here.
[ML]Thank you. Appreciate that.