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FEMALE SPEAKER: The last panel will be
moderated by Serdar Kuzuloglu.
I'm sure it's going to be a very exciting and fun one.
An interesting one.
So my microphone is not on.
I'd like to invite Serhat Ozeren.
By the way, I'm going to be the moderator of the panel.
I'd like to invite Timur Sirt.
Faruk Eczacibasi, Mr. Eczacibasi.
And of course we have [INAUDIBLE]
Excuse me, I forgot you.
I'm very sorry.
A big hand for [INAUDIBLE], please.
[INAUDIBLE]
is here with his briefcase.
I'm very sorry about that.
He's here with documents, with digital documents.
I know it's a bit late to say welcome, but welcome.
Well, I condemn you because there's no microphone on
[INAUDIBLE].
So it's not only me.
Well, thank you very much again.
For those of you who are still with us,
there's is a big delay.
A slight delay.
It's half past 5:00 now, and according to the agenda I
have, we were supposed to start at quarter past 4:00.
They look like a choir.
A man's choir.
One day, we were at a university at another panel.
We were waiting for some people to come.
And I asked the dean, why don't we start?
Everybody's here.
And he said well, we always have a 15
minute academic delay.
And I think this is a digital delay.
Up to now, I was listening to all the panels and I said,
wow, I wish it's the end of internet so that we save
ourselves some trouble.
Because our internet experiences are very much
different than one another.
The reason why they accepted to sit in this panel was
because Google promised to make a doodle out of us.
So tomorrow when you type in Google on the homepage, you
will see our heads.
So I will represent the two O's of Google.
I'm going to moderate this panel just for watching the
time, because you cannot moderate these people.
They are very prominent people.
They will try to be very brief.
I'll try to be very brief.
It's my destiny, actually.
It's a Google event, but we are still doing
the Alta Vista structure.
We have a panel, panels follow one another, and people sit
next to each other.
It's very traditional.
But things will change.
But we will still be the ones that will talk.
We will try to be as interactive as possible.
I have my mobile phone with me, so I will
also follow the tweets.
If you have a question, not comment, I will
give you the floor.
So quite briefly, I have a small question to you.
Is it true to bring internet as an
excuse to all the problems?
Are we in a transition process?
What do you say, Timur?
There are a few questions that the journalists
are afraid to receive.
The first one is, is journalism dying?
Is internet dying, et cetera.
Nothing is a matter of life and death.
We always try to define things as black or white, or we are a
part of something or we are against something.
Instead of pointing at things and instead of focusing on the
things that we point, we look at index finger and we try to
deal with the index finger.
Not everyone tries to understand each other.
And you can also observe this when
people are asking questions.
They do not ask questions.
They try to express their own opinions, and they want other
people to accept their opinions without questioning.
But there are different people as well.
John was an example.
He inspired me in my own story as well.
In fact, when you look at all the individual stories, you
see many good examples of success.
And seeing those examples is an indication that this
country is doing something differently.
I hope that examples like John, examples like the
successful people we have today will become normal one
day in Turkey, and of course this will
be thanks to internet.
Everyone talks about ethics, but of course, you cannot fix
everything with law.
When you try to fix everything with law, and then you start
to bring some precautions and measures, things might get out
of control.
First of all, people should learn how to live together.
And people should learn how to use the internet collectively.
But I miss talking to Timur.
I remember the old days, we were also having similar
panels in [? technical ?]
chat [? based. ?]
Having nonregulated environments is a utopia.
And of course we cannot think of an environment like
internet which is not regulated, because it's
related to many people.
I'd like to ask a question to Serhat Ozeren.
He is the President of the Board of Internet Development.
Can you please inform us about all the regulations that have
been passed so far?
Are they appropriate?
Are they working well?
Are they operational?
And how are they used by the opinion of the leaders?
What do you mean by internet regulations?
All of them or those related to
security, privacy, et cetera?
Well, in general terms.
Or can you answer the following question?
Can we really regulate internet?
That's a very difficult area to regulate, that's true.
Because you have to pay attention to security,
privacy, and of course freedom should be at a
very maximum level.
And there's a thin line in between.
On which side I was standing?
We have to ask it to the public at large,
but what do you think?
According to my understanding, we are going through a
learning process.
The public is learning about internet, and the individuals
are also learning more about internet as the day goes by.
Internet has a history of 22 years.
OK, in 1960s there was ARPANET, but it was first used
22 years ago.
And Turkey was one of the first countries that started
using internet.
We're not latecomers.
But when you look at internet penetration, two years ago,
the number of subscribers in Turkey-- on broadband, I'm
talking about--
was around 9 million.
Just two years ago.
Now it's around 20 million.
And there's a fast development in Turkey.
Of course, fiber optical infrastructure has become
widespread in Turkey.
GSM connectivity has increased.
We all know that.
But these are physical transformations, and things
will get better.
Is everything comfortable now?
Is everything OK now?
Or are you OK with the developments?
I am.
Do you find it comfortable?
Are you really OK with the situation?
I'm not, actually.
Who's buzzing, by the way?
Was it you, Timur?
No.
Someone is blowing through the microphone.
I was just trying to find it.
Well, I don't believe that the definitions are made based on
recent regulations.
Yes, we can talk about it.
Let's make the definitions.
We have 20 years of history, but I think we're still using
the definitions of the old world.
And we are taking the measures in accordance with the
structures of the old world.
I think this is a big shortcoming.
Yes, we have internet.
Internet is developing at an incredible speed.
But the authorities or institutions have not been
established.
Or there are no efforts to establish such authorities to
provide self control in internet.
So do you have any recommendation to [INAUDIBLE]?
Yes, of course.
Self control mechanisms should be developed.
Civil society organizations or civil organizations should
establish internal mechanisms.
How to put it--
the institutions or organizations haven't been
authorized by the state, or they haven't been certified by
the state, should have self control mechanisms, I think.
In the previous panel, an example was given related to
pictures used by the online websites of the newspapers.
Of course, everything will change in time.
And being open to change is needed, but I think we cannot
be open to changes as much as we want.
We all have kids, don't we?
But Timur doesn't, because Timur is very young.
By the way, Timur is a very nice man.
We inform all the single girls about Timur.
That's why we are working on internet, to make this
information widespread.
I have two kids.
I'm the father of twins, and my children are growing up.
And of course, naturally they use technological instruments.
Internet can become a big source of concern for parents.
Because the ocean of internet, in which I find any
information, can be a nightmare for other parents.
Because they may not be aware of certain mechanisms or
certain measures that can be taken against children.
So in general terms, in your academic position, can you
draw a picture of the existent situation?
How will I do that?
OK, now let's take questions.
It's like a mosaic.
It's really complicated to make such a definition.
I'm a father of an 11-year-old girl.
We are among the power users of internet.
But of course you learn new things from your kids, and I
learn new things from my daughter every day.
We are a bunch of people here, but we're not that many, and
we try to understand the things here.
My daughter, for instance, she is always online, from evening
to morning.
And I'm always worried about her.
But newspapers, for instance, they try to compete online,
and that was a good example of competition.
Just before we came to the panel, I was checking the
internet to find a subject to talk about here.
I was tweeting all day long, and I saw myself in one of the
news reports of Hurriyet Online.
So even before I came to this panel, I came to this floor,
Hurriyet Online brought a news report about me.
And they talked about the things I said in this panel
before I did that, because they looked at my tweets.
[INAUDIBLE]
can tell us how he can benefit from the newspaper.
We talk about new media ethics.
What do the newspapers do?
The internet users over Google or over websites--
the newspapers do not want the internet users to receive
information from other sources.
They want the internet users only come to their websites,
and they try to compete.
So in ethical terms, in social terms, or in terms of teaching
the job of journalism, traditional newspapers do not
help the other types of websites.
Censorship or filtering, they should not be the focal
points, actually.
We should be doing right education, right training.
So training is important, you said.
But I want you to open a parenthesis here.
What do you mean by education?
There are two types of education.
The first one is the education of users for children at the
school age.
And those who are out of school should
be trained as well.
In 2004, I started teaching new media.
For 10 years, I've been telling the same thing.
And you do not address many people.
We don't have that many people in this room because it's a
very late hour.
The audience can be very crowded as well, but compared
to the population of the country, we're not much.
We're not many.
What I'm trying to say here is the state-- the government and
non-government organizations and every other [? actor ?]
related to internet--
if we delay things, if we only focus on our business, then we
won't have time for regulating [? Syria ?] or filling the
cultural gap.
In the US elections, national newspaper made very good news
a month ago.
The digital natives will be electing their first president
in 40 years' time.
It will take 40 years in the United States for the digital
natives to elect their President.
But it means that in other countries, it will take many
more years for digital natives to be doing similar things.
So in order to cover this gap, there
should be training programs.
And I'm not talking about 20, 30 people.
I'm talking about raising awareness among
35, 40 million people.
And we need a lot of trainers to do that.
So if you're talking about training or education
mobility, I agree with you.
It's necessary.
But it's a different utopia, don't you agree?
Well, we have to start from somewhere, but we cannot.
We do not.
There are many training programs delivered by the
[? government ?] organizations to families.
Isn't that so?
Yes, there are many efforts exerted.
How about interest?
There's a lot of interest among the society as well.
How many people did you reach, by the way?
Well, there are many different organizations organizing such
training programs.
Is there a survey about the target group or the number of
target groups?
Minister of National Education has programs.
There's the [? FATIH ?]
Program as well which is going to support that.
I think--
microphone, please.
We [? signed ?] a protocol with the Minister of National
Education from February to May for four months.
In every school, teachers that have been trained will deliver
training to students about how to use internet.
The Ministry of Family Affairs is conducting a similar
program as well.
I didn't have the opportunity to talk about this when I was
on the floor, but our institution has accepted to
become a member to safer internet program of the
European Union.
There's a membership fee of 600,000 Euros.
Our institution will pay that.
And the Turkish non-government organizations will be able to
propose projects to this fund.
And they can be financed.
So the non-government organizations can be financed
in their projects related to creating a safer internet
environment thanks to this fund.
We have heard many observations related to
present day, but what do you think about the future?
What kind of dreams do you have?
What can be done by us?
So let's share our [? reels. ?]
Well, for such training, we first have
to train the trainers.
Who's going to train the students?
That's the question which is being asked.
Many people answer this question as computer engineers
or computer technicians.
I think new media literacy or internet literacy should be
the keyword.
We have to separate the word "security" or "safety" from
this issue, and we have to focus on literacy.
I think if we can build the concept and perception
correctly, it will be the basis for training.
But I think we lack trainers.
So is there a group of trainers already?
I don't know.
There are 40 million people, let's say, as a target group
in Turkey to be trained.
But also under the age of 18, there are millions of
students and kids.
Who's going to train them?
I think this is the first question we should answer to
start such training mobility.
This is quite important.
And we have to define the concept
correctly at the beginning.
We're talking about new media and internet literacy.
The content of the training should be in
line with those concepts.
Otherwise, children will not be able to use internet.
We were in another panel in a high school, and the school
principal asked about future jobs.
And Serdar said, "***."
No, that's not what I meant.
I said, well, you think of internet as a
money generating device.
But if you want to earn a lot of money on internet, I said,
you can create a *** website.
That was a joke, of course.
Well, I will give you an example.
My nephew uses lots of abbreviations when he's
talking or when he's texting.
The abbreviation can later become a name for a newspaper
because it's so famous and it's used by everyone.
Our children, for instance, spend all their time in front
of their computers, and you can only see the face of your
child when he uploads a picture on Facebook and if
you're friends with him on Facebook.
You should not blame internet or you should not blame your
child here.
You should look at yourself and the way
you raise your child.
So the family is very important.
If the child keeps lying, it's the fault of the parent.
For instance, if in the United States you ban children under
the age of 13 from using internet, of course children
will continue connecting to internet, and they will lie to
their parents.
And the children will lie in Turkey as well if they're
banned from using the internet.
And of course they will continue to do so.
The traditional education system will continue in
internet teaching as well, but I think we should change
certain things here.
I think the states or the government, when reacting to
the developments on internet, can be really an amateur.
But it's normal, because internet is quite new.
As a journalist, I give examples from
the world of media.
There was a question related to the use of pictures online.
In fact, the newspapers use internet as a money generating
instrument.
They receive all the news from news agencies.
And they publish all kinds of news regardless of whether
they're right or wrong or correct or
incorrect on their websites.
And if the news agency publishes wrongful
information, then that wrongful information becomes
widespread.
Here, one day, I think newspapers will understand
that they are killing their own reputation.
Well, a small anecdote from my life as a journalist.
I started work in 1994, and I worked in
every field of media.
I'm trying to explain the perception of the newspapers
towards the use of internet.
I was the one who started user comments on the news of
Radikal online.
But we were the first ones to remove that application.
We were the first newspaper to start personalized use of
newspapers.
But we were the first one to remove that.
So all the initiatives that I triggered were removed.
Then I said goodbye to the newspaper.
Of course, it's hard to change your habits.
I have a question to follow [? Eczacibasi ?].
We talk about freedom of speech, freedom to be
informed, freedom to have access,
freedom to make a choice.
In fact, many problems develop from the
limitation of those problems.
And of course Turkey is not the only country who suffers
from such problems.
It's the global world, and every country tries to find
their own solutions.
What do you think of that?
I have to say a few words about the previous question.
You asked the question before, and you asked how many of us
have children.
And Timur is the only single one.
I'm sure I'll find a girlfriend for Timur today.
It's really interesting to observe the next generation.
We're talking about teaching here, or we're talking about
reflecting our opinions on students.
But there is a great difference between what we
present them and what we want them to learn.
A very typical example to me is reading a book.
We all want our children, kids, to read books.
But there are thousands of video games, millions of
websites, and hundreds of TV channels which can be an
alternative to reading.
I remember my childhood.
I'm quite senior when I compare my age to your age.
When I was 15 or 16, we didn't have any television sets in
Turkey, or only a few families had television sets.
And we didn't have TV channels.
There was only one TV channel which broadcast after 6:00 PM.
That was the only visual instrument.
And of course we had the theaters,
and we had some comics--
comic books.
Apart from that, we didn't have anything else providing
us visual content.
So we had to read books.
So you were reading books because you
didn't have any option.
Of course.
As a country we do not read.
But at the moment, young people have many different
alternatives to reading books.
You can push your kid to read a book, and your child can be
a good reader just because you want him to be.
20% of the world population can be good readers, actually.
But from 10 or 15 years from now on, the 10-year-olds or
15-year-olds will be working--
will be in the industry or in the business sector.
And 80% of them will be the ones that have been raised
with visual content.
Two generations before me, they used to cook chestnuts
and they used to tell stories to one another.
This was the evening entertainment for families.
We used to read books because cooking chestnuts did not mean
anything for us.
And we used to play on the street.
We used to play on the playground.