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[This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. Realtime Captioning Provided By: EfficiencyReporting.com]
>> SANDIE: Hello beautiful people here, my
name is Sandie Yi, I am one of the
committee members of CCAC. I want to give
thanks to our participants and panelists
and everybody who brought this event
together for us. Two -- thanks to Joe
Albritton and Mayor's of Office -- Office
of People With Disabilities for providing
the venue. Thank you to Equip for Equality
for the realtime captioning, Cathy Rajcan,
for reporting, and for Efficiency Reporting
for the realtime captioning. And for
Ferrara Bakery. So thank you everybody.
And I want to invite Joe here to say a few
words before we start today's event.
>> JOE: Good afternoon, everybody. As she
said, my name is Joe Albritton. On behalf
of the commissioner and family, I want to
welcome everyone to our field office at
MOPD. We're very pleased to be hosting
today's training that this is -- actually
this great training put together or series
of trainings that's put together by the
Chicago Cultural Accessibility Consortium.
Because most of the advocates here, feel
that people with disabilities are the same
right to access all the great cultural
activities that occur here in the City of
Chicago, and we applaud your efforts to
throw in -- I guess a theater term there --
we applaud your efforts to be more
inclusive in your programings for people
with disabilities. So like I said, there's
a lot of great resources in the room. We
encourage you to take advantage, ask a lot
of questions. And again, have a great day
of training. Thank you.
>> SANDIE: Before we start today's exciting
event, we are going to put everyone in to
work. So you have to do hard work. But
you also want to enjoy it. So our topic is
about people with mobility disabilities.
But we also want to remind you that
basically that includes everyone, you know,
looking at people's different ways of
moving their body and going to your work
venue and enjoying the cultural and arts
event that you provide. So think about
what's going on about your own body. Who
feels that I am 100 percent comfortable in
my own body? You don't have to answer out
loud. I don't want to embarrass you.
[Chuckling]
>> SANDIE: So we want -- we are going to do
a little exercise before we go into our
panel discussion. So I know that this is
an afternoon and some of you probably just
rushed from work and it's a lot of work
coming here. And you might be stressed out
from your work and all that. Or school or
whatever you have to take care of at home.
So think about like really pay attention to
yourself in the next like three to five
minutes and start to see like which part of
your body feels most tense. And which part
of your body needs a lot of care and
attention. And the exercise that we are
about to do is you know, really point out
the specific body parts that you feel like,
I really need to love it a lot, I need to
keep a lot of care and attention. So we are
going to do a little bit imaginary yoga.
Not everybody's good at yoga or any sports,
I know. I'm not either. But what I want
you to do is, you know, really identify the
body parts -- for example for me might be
my right shoulder. So I'm going to ask my
right shoulder to go as far as possible and
when you do that, you might want to think
about if there's this place that you really
love to go, but you cannot go right now.
Perhaps it's Hawaii, perhaps it's Mexico,
perhaps it's a spa treatment facility. So
think about a place that you really like to
go. And then take that body part with you
there. And depends on people's comfort
level, you don't have to really do this
like yoga thing like turn yourself upside
down, but try and stretch yourself as much
as possible. And then stretch to the other
opposite direction. Okay? Ready? And just a
little note. You can only do it very
softly. For example if some people feel
like oh, my gosh, I'm staring at the
computer screen forever. I want to roll my
eyes. Even though today's about rolling
red carpet for people. But let's begin
rolling your eyes, if you wish. And if you
feel like I want to stand up and do that,
we do have space around here. Okay? So
whenever you are ready, please begin loving
yourself by giving yourself a little yoga
in this room. Okay? Take your body to the
dream place that you wish to go. Okay. So
when you're ready, please find a partner
next to you. And find a way to say hi.
Let's welcome Jacqueline. [Applause]
>> JACLYN: Good afternoon, everybody. Thank
you so much. So that was kind of nice
little introduction, warm-up, thank you for
that, Sandie. What we're going to do now
is I'm going to give you a little bit of an
introduction. Let me show you our agenda
for the rest of your time here. So we are
into our welcomes and introductions. What
I'm going to do during the next five, ten
minutes is talk to you a little bit about
the audience that we're discussing today.
So we're focussing on visitors coming to
your institutions that have disabilities
that affect their mobility. And then we
are going to bring our panel up here, and
we're going to give them some guided
questions but also take a lot of questions
that you guys have. And then we are going
to have a little bit of time at the end,
hopefully we don't go too over, I know we
started a little late, and I appreciate
everyone's patience for that. We want to
save some time at the end so you can speak
with the panelists and also speak with each
other and get to know each other a little
bit. One thing that we always want to start
off with at our workshops is letting
everybody know that this is a safe pace and
that all of us are learning to get better
with accessibility and inclusion at our
institutions. And so I want to put that
out there that some of us may stumble over
things like correct verbiage and things
like that. So I want to make sure that
everybody knows this is a safe space and we
want everybody to learn and get better. So
we kind of want to lay that foundation for
you all. Okay. So like I said, I'm going
to talk a little about who this audience
is, just so everybody -- we're all on the
same page with who we're discussing today.
And so we're going to get a little bit of a
population overview. Looking across all
American population, there's an estimated
54 million Americans that have at least one
disability. That's a lot. 54 million. And
the year 2011 an estimated 12 percent of
noninstitutionalized male or female, all
races, ages, regardless of ethnicity, all
education levels reported a disability.
That's across all groups of people. 12
percent. Which is pretty high. And people
with disabilities constitute the nation's
largest minority group. And it's the only
group that any of us can become a member of
at any time. Which is kind of interesting
to think about. So we have a personal stake
in this. Even one of our staring committee
co-chairs had surgery recently. So she
knows what it's like to now have a
temporary disability. And she's been
giving us her input as we have been
planning for this workshop today. This is
something any of us can fall into as we
have an accident, generic difference, aging
can put us into this minority population.
As I mentioned, people with temporary
disabilities and -- actually this is
something that Lynn, one of our staring
committee folks, wanted us to stress that
just because somebody has a disability, it
may be a temporary disability or something
relatively new to them. As we -- as
cultural institutions, staff and
administrators, everyone isn't quite an
expert in their own disability. And one
last note here, as our baby boomer
population ages, more veterans return from
war, this number is going to double in the
next 20 years. That's really eye-opening
as we think about how many people are
coming to our institutions and who are we
working with, who are going to have
disabilities. To get a little bit more
specific, when we kind of break this out --
all these other statistics, the 54 million,
12 percent, we're looking across the board
at disabilities. So the highest category
within that, 7 percent reported an
ambulatory disability. That was in 2011.
That's 7 percent of -- let's see if I'm
getting it straight. Reported a
disability, reported it was ambulatory. So
looking a little more at ambulatory or
physical impairments and just trying to
figure out what that all entails, this is
the best definition that I found is a
pretty broad definition, a physical
impairment can be defined as a disabling
condition or other health impairment. That
requires adaptive equipment such as a cane,
crutches, wheelchair or scooter. Mobility
impairments may be part of an injury or
something that's congenital, people are
born with. And it's -- temporary
impairments like broken legs can also
result in mobility impairments. I also
want to point out what I was mentioning, a
safe space, another thing that is really
core to the CCAC is we're focussed on
meeting visitor needs. We do recognize and
appreciate that it's important for
institutions to consider the needs of
employees and artists coming to our spaces
and utilizing our spaces, working in our
spaces. But our conversation today, it may
kind of venture into that at some point.
But our focus will really be on the visitor
experience. I want to clarify that, that
throughout our whole conversation today
that's kind of where we're coming from is
how can we as employees of cultural
institutions, theater, art galleries, how
can we meet the needs of the visitors
coming in. Coming back to my transition --
that's kind of my transition into the
talking about a personal story. You are
free to laugh out loud at this really
cheesy picture. Where I'm wild at the zoo.
So I think I failed to introduce myself
properly when I first started because it's
been a little bit of a frantic time getting
organized today. But I work at Lincoln
park zoo in Chicago, in the education
department there. I recently last
September, I went to North Carolina to
visit a friend of mine. And she's -- said
that she grew up going to North Carolina
zoo and insisted that we go there. So I'm
obviously up at the top. My friend Mia is
at the bottom. She had her service dog
with her. And I want to share this story
because this is actually why I have become
interested in accessibility and improving
things at my institution because of the
great experiences I have with Mia. So a
lot that were positive, but also ones that
I just saw her getting frustrated and
angry. This visit to the zoo that I'm
going to show a couple pictures from, it
really opened my eyes to what it can be
like to visit a cultural space or a zoo
with -- in a wheelchair and also bringing a
service dog as well, which was a big deal
to bring to the zoo. So yeah, this really
helps encourage me to join the CCAC and
start to bring this as a top priority at
Lincoln Park zoo. As I was walking around
the zoo with Mia, we started taking
pictures of all the animals, we saw some
chimp babies, got a picture of them.
Seeing animals, that's what you're at the
zoo to do. What I quickly realized is that
Mia being in a wheelchair, she has a lower
visibility and also has her service dog
with her. And right away I noticed that
it's really difficult for her to see things
at the zoo. Everybody else is able to
squeeze up to the front of the viewing
area. It was hard for her to get in there.
As she's -- snuck in behind kids and they
saw her dog, what's the first thing they
wanted to do? Pet it. She's so cute,
adorable. A young lab. But Ari was
working. Every time I wanted to see
animals, everybody is turning to the dog
and distracting us from what we wanted to
do and see. I was kind of a creep because I
stopped taking pictures of the animals and
started taking pictures of Mia. Without
her knowing. I was behind her experiencing
everything that she was and paying
attention to it. So in addition to trying
to get close to the glass and see things,
it was also difficult for her at some spots
where most adults would be able to view
over the glass and take pictures without a
barrier. Mia, she went up the ramp and
climbed up over her chair. Probably doing
some things that were probably a little bit
unsafe. Sometimes people will try to make
accommodations or do things that are kind
of pushing beyond the bounds of what the
space was designed for. So Mia was getting
creative and Ari was hanging out there
patiently. Something that is unique to a
zoo and spot that has a living collection
is that animals can respond to you
differently for being in a wheelchair and
also for having a service animal. We saw
that there were these baby chimps that took
note of Mia and Ari right away. And they
got really interested in -- although that
was excited and helped us get awesome
pictures, this is Mia's shot of these chimp
babies that were hugging each other, very
adorable. But they came up close to the
glass, which was cool. We got the cool
pictures. But then that also meant that
the animals were reacting negatively to the
Doc and a lot of other people gather around
that area because they wanted to see the
chimpanzees up close. It was actually
probably a little dangerous for the chimps
as they were running themselves into the
window and getting a little bit excitable.
This is something that when I got to my
zoo, I was like I need to know our whole
service animal policy inside and out.
Because when I saw that I was afraid of the
safety of the animal and how all the guests
were seeing that and perceiving it. Kind
of a wake-up call, an interesting thing to
experience. And then we headed out. It was
a good visit to the zoo. For Mia, it was
any other visit to the zoo. But for me, I
work in an a zoo, I'm there every day. And
going to North Carolina zoo with her it
gave me a completely different perspective
that it's just not as easy as it is when
I'm going to the zoo. And so for her, she
goes to -- through those challenges a lot
and it's kind of -- she's always figuring
it out as she goes. Then kind of my story
-- I just wanted to share with you guys and
-- this is kind of also to introduce that I
feel like I'm very much a beginner when it
comes to accessibility and inclusion. When
I talked about this being a safe space, I
hope everybody will consider that for me as
well and not be judgmental if I am using
the wrong vocabulary or things like that,
because I want to learn more. We have an
awesome panel here today. They're going to
be talking more about their own experience
as some of the folks who use wheelchairs,
and also as folks that have worked in
cultural institutions or worked with
populations of people to be able to meet
their needs as visitors and employees and
things like that. And so I'm going to ask
you guys to come on up. We'll have our
panel set up at these tables. And we're
going to start introductions and then we're
going to go into a more formal discussion.
So you guys can come on up. We're borrowing
the space from the mayor's office, we've
had some technical difficulty the. And
we're going to have this microphone that
we're going to pass along the panel here.
So want to do what I can to help you guys
out. This might be kind of funny because
the microphone is wired. Anyway, we'll
figure it out as we go. Okay. So what I'm
going to do is I'm going to introduce one
panelist at a time. I'm going to read
their brief bio and pass the mic to them so
they can tell you about their personal
story and their experience that's relevant
to this discussion today. We'll kind of set
everybody up so you know who's in front of
you and why you should think they're
awesome and respect them and listen to
everything they have to say, we have a
captioner so she's getting every exact
word. And so, yeah, we can make sure that
everything's documented today. It's going
to be great. For starters I'm going to
introduce another member of the Chicago
Cultural Accessibility Consortium, Theresa
Pacione. Theresa has a long history as a
cultural administrator working with
Chicago's art and cultural disabilities.
And program director for Bodies of Work.
Over the years she has organized art
programs and awareness trainings for the
Evan Stan art council, Chicago children's
museum. Girl Scouts of Chicago, Chicago
Public Schools, as well as numerous
festivals including Bodies of Work
Festival, and the he have Evanston ethnic
arts festival. We'll have a few opening
words from you.
>> THERESA: Thank you. Thanks for coming
today. First day of spring, we made it
through. [Laughter]
>> THERESA: I hope. I hope. My remarks
today are going to be very practical. And
I've written them out so -- we're only
allowed five minutes, so I can stay within
the time limit I'm going to read, if you
don't mind. I know sometimes people can be
uncomfortable when they encounter someone
with a disability. Because they are unsure
about what to say or at what to do. More
often than not, to avoid feeling awkward
and possibly saying the wrong thing, they
end up saying nothing at all. You don't
need to feel awkward or be afraid that
you'll say something or do something wrong
if you just try to be welcoming and
informative. The conversation that you
could have can go something like this.
Hello, how are you today? Welcome to the
Museum of Contemporary Art. Are you here
for the performance this afternoon? Great.
There are several sections in the
auditorium that have wheelchair accessible
spaces. May I direct you to your seat? And
by the way, the accessible washrooms are
right down the hall on the right. All the
time directing most of this conversation to
the person in the wheelchair. People with
disabilities are just like everyone else.
We go to school, we get married, we work.
Have families, do laundry, grocery shop,
laugh, cry, pay taxes, get angry, have
prejudices, vote, plan, and dream. We go
to concerts, the symphony, the opera,
theater, and dance performances. And there
are some things you can do to help make a
visit to your venue a seamless experience
for a person with a disability, even before
we come through the door. You can start
with your website. Is it accessible? There
are organizations that will evaluate your
website's accessibility. I believe Great
Lakes ADA and the Chicago lighthouse are
two that do that. Does your website list
the accessibility features of your venue?
So I can look them up before I arrive. Put
a button with an access symbol in a
prominent place on your home page where I
can click for accessibility information.
Your website is a good place to note if you
have wheelchairs and other mobility aids
and services available, and if you offer
discounted tickets for persons with
disabilities and their companions. Access
features like restrooms, elevators, and
where the accessible exits, curb cuts,
parking and service dog relief areas are
things that you can indicate on a map and
have this map on your website. As well as
a printout that is a take away. And it's
really important that every member of your
staff is familiar with your policies and
services. And because of staff turnover,
it's important to have ongoing training to
inform new staff and keep current staff
updated. When I go to a venue that is
universally designed -- that means that
it's accessible for everybody -- I don't
feel disabled. It's only when I encounter
barriers that I do. Lowered counters at
the box office or the information desk and
the refreshment area are a good thing. So
are drinking fountains low enough for me to
reach. Are the elevators large enough to
accommodate me, my wheelchair and a
companion? Is the alarm button in the
emergency phone low enough? What about the
restrooms? Is the entry door light enough
for me to open independently? Does the door
to the accessible stall swing out? Is there
enough room to maneuver inside? Are there
grab bars and a raised commode? Is there
enough knee clearance under the sinks? Is
the mirror low enough for me to see myself?
Will I be able to reach the soap and paper
towels dispenser easily? In the gallery in
the hallways, is the artwork and signage
viewable from a seated position? Is there
seating available in galleries and hallways
so that those who use crutches and walkers
can stop and rest? How about the money slot
in a vending machine? Is that low enough
for a person of short stature to reach? It
might be a good idea to get in a wheelchair
and -- or try using crutches to check these
things out for yourself. Start in the
parking lot and check the path to the
accessible entrance. Do you have a van
accessible self parking or valet parking?
Do the approach routes have level access or
curb cut? We are all looking for ways to
get people with disabilities into our
venues, but what about helping them get out
in the case of an emergency? Would your
staff know what to do? Do they have
written evacuation procedures for people
with disabilities? This training is also
available. I know this seems like a lot to
take in and try to accomplish all at once.
But in a short term, a welcoming and
informed staff is something you can start
with tomorrow. You will find it will go a
long way in making people with disabilities
feel welcomed and appreciated -- patrons in
your venue. Thank you. [Applause]
>> JACLYN: All right. Thank you, Theresa.
I'm going to go ahead and introduce our
next panelist, Gary Arnold. I'm going to
introduce you next. Gary is the public
relations coordinator for Access Living, a
nonresidential independent living center
for people with disabilities. He's the
president of the board of Little People of
America, a national membership organization
that offers support and resources for
people with short stature, serves on the
committee for the national disability
leadership alliance, a coalition of 14
disability-led membership organizations and
sits on the board for the community at
media workshop. As a writer he is a
regular contributor to street-wise and
Huffington Post. I'm going to pass it off
to you, Gary.
>> GARY: Thank you everyone for coming and
for inviting me to be a part of the panel.
I'm going to talk quickly about two of the
things that were mentioned in my
introduction. First of all Access Living.
I work there doing public relations work.
And Access Living is a service and advocacy
organization serving Chicago. People with
disabilities in Chicago. And not only are
we serving people with disabilities, but
the majority of the people who work there
are people with disabilities. Probably
about 70 percent of the staff are people
with disabilities. And many of whom are
people with mobility issues and
disabilities. And recently -- we have been
around since 1980, but within the past
eight years we've moved into a new building
which is actually designed by our board and
by staff members. And it's a building that
incorporates universal design as Theresa
touched on as well as green design. And as
Theresa said, with universal design, I
think some of you are aware, the goal is to
design spaces that work for everyone. And
when done right, what you're going to be
able to do is make doorways, entrances,
bath rooms, work spaces that are going to
work for everyone. One space that works
well for everyone rather than creating one
entrance for one group and another entrance
for -- for another group. What we found,
though, in the process is that -- you know,
we built the building specifically for
people with disabilities. But what we
found and others have found is that with
universal design, when done right, it makes
everyone's life ice easier, if you're
pregnant or just had a baby and you're
pushing a stroller around or went grocery
shopping and pushing a cart around,
universal design is going to make your life
easier. And so we have this great building,
it's a very cool place to work. One of the
intentions behind it was not just to build
something that was great for the staff at
Access Living to work, but our goal and my
goal as a public relations person is to
really raise awareness about universal
design and encourage everyone, when
designing new spaces, to implement
universal design. From what I understand,
that actually is happening and that -- in
the museum industry these days, universal
design has become popular. And I know I
speak for -- about Little People of
America, also. As mentioned, I'm the
president of the board of directors. LPA
is this national group with about 6500
members. And dwarfism is a very specific
disability diagnosis. And usually is easy
to think about people with dwarfism are
people who are shorter. But yet there's
200 different types of dwarfism and within
each of those different types, a disability
may be very different. So many people with
dwarfism end up having mobility issues and
some may end up using wheelchairs or
scooters. Or crutches. And when the I
shall -- one of the issues that we face in
the dwarfism community is similar to when
you have a disabilities intersect. What
may work best for someone who's blind isn't
necessarily going to work the best for
someone who's deaf or hard of hearing or
someone who uses a wheelchair. And we find
that argument where -- for me, the answer
just might be stools in strategic places
around an institution or around a home or
something. But that's not necessarily
going to work for someone who's using a
scooter or a wheelchair. That slows an
added challenge there. And a bathroom, I
think is a good example of some of the
challenges that are put forward. For -- if
you're talking people with dwarfism where
height is the major issue, you know, a
lower toilet is going to work. But that's
not necessarily going to work for someone
who uses a wheelchair who might need to
transfer. So an accessible stall typically
has a higher toilet. And that's not going
to work best for me. In fact, on the
subject of bathrooms, that's something that
-- you know, like where I work, there's
four different floors. And on the lowest
floor there's a bathroom with a very low
toilet. And I'll go -- right away, but I
don't want to speak for everyone. I think
a lot of people with disabilities, when
they find something that works, that they
like, people go out of the way for it.
They'll become like your most loyal
customer. It's not there anymore, but
there's a theater here in Chicago, the
Davis theater. It used to be my favorite
theater, not because of the movies they
play, but because they had this great couch
in the lobby area that was very low. And I
loved going there just so I could like hang
out on that coach. Because it's very
difficult to find a good couch if you're a
person with short stature. I can -- just to
kind of highlight the fact that, you know,
mobility issues and coming up with
solutions, accommodations, solutions are --
can be very challenging. We have a national
conference every year. And maybe about
2000 of our members attend the conference.
And as we've grown as an organization, and
as more people come to our conference, the
options we have in terms of hotels are --
have become very limited. There's only a
relative small number of hotels around the
entire country that can accommodate our
group. Just because of the size of it and
because of the vast differences in terms of
mobility, disability, mobility impairments
within the organization. And -- but just
keep in mind, when we do do these national
conferences -- it's a very social
conference. All kinds of stuff is planned
in terms of outings, to zoos, to museums
and to theaters and things like that. And
sometimes we've seen cities have really
made a great effort to prepare for us by --
we were in Dallas a couple years ago. And
the city took it upon itself to install
these kind of permanent stools in bathrooms
at public spaces around the city. So that
was very nice. And -- yeah. I don't --
that's what I wanted to say.
>> JACLYN: Thank you. I love that you just
said that when somebody finds something
that works for them, they keep going.
Because that's why I want all of our
cultural institutions in Chicago to be able
to be -- theaters and everything. Yeah,
that's great. So my next person I'm going
to introduce is Mike Ervin, he's a cultural
administrator at the Victory Gardens
theater, where he presents crip slam,
movies and other events that explore and
celebrate disability culture. He is the
director of Victory Gardens access project,
a recognized model outreach effort to
involve people with disabilities in all
aspects of theater on and off the stage.
It's a nationally recognized -- that's a
repeat sentence. Never mind that. Okay.
I'm going to come on over and let Mike say
a few words.
>> MIKE ERVIN: Hello, everybody.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello.
>> MIKE ERVIN: My name is Mike. And I am
director of The Access Project at Victory
Gardens, and I'll use my five minutes to
give you a brief history of that and just a
couple brief comments on what the word
welcome means. First of all, I'm an also
a playwright. And in the year 1990, Susan
Nussbaum, who you may know -- good things,
bad things, make sure you buy it and read
it. Susan Nussbaum's a local playwright
and we wrote a play in 1990 called the
plunky and spunky show produced at the
Overmains Theater. One of the founder of
the remains theater. Bill Peters, CSI
fame. Two years later, reader's Digest put
out a request for proposals for money to
make -- to have outreach to underserved
audiences. And they said, huh, we have all
those disabled people here a couple years
ago, why don't we put out a grant for that.
And they did, and we got the money.
That's where the access project came from.
So when we designed it, we designed it to
be accessible both -- for the audience but
also onstage too. And later on we can get
a little bit about how we do that. But we
thought that usually when things are
accessible, people kind of -- disabled
folks as spectators and not participants.
And we didn't want to get caught in that
trap. So we -- back stage is all -- it's
supposed to be accessible according to the
ADA anyway, but a lot of times isn't
because ADA people still think we made the
theater accessible, back stage and all that
is not going to matter, they're not going
to use it anyway. That's why we did it.
Then remains went out of business in 1995.
And we switched the whole project over to
Victory Gardens. Among the reasons we went
there is because they had a very -- great
community -- they're not just a large
theater that puts on Tennessee Williams
plays and doesn't talk much to the people
who come. We talk a lot with our -- we
interact with our subscribers and our
guests. And also they do new work, which
is something that fit into what we're
doing. In terms of developing artists with
disabilities. And they're also committed
to diverse voices, which it's -- and
diverse audiences. All that seemed to fit.
They said welcome, and we started doing it
over there. And by the word welcome --
accessibility, we tell our staff, the word
welcome is what accessibility is. It's
making people feel welcome. And that takes
on a few forms. It starts with figuring
out what you have that is accessible, what
you have to offer. And either putting that
out there, if you have it, or develop it if
you don't. And it keeps -- the key to doing
it right is to always, always, always,
always, always consult with the people who
are going to be using it. If it's for deaf
people, consult with deaf people. If it's
for blind people, consult with blind
people, et cetera. When you don't do that,
it reminds me of that panel that I saw a
few years ago, it was about women, and it
was the republicans in the house. And it
was all men on it. [Chuckling]
>> MIKE ERVIN: Reminds me of that. Let's --
that's the key to doing that right, is to
always consult with people -- and
organization, yes. But beyond
organizations, with individuals. There are
certain blind people and certain deaf
people who come to our theater all the
time. And those are the ones that we would
consult with all along. And when you do --
when it is accessible to make it known. By
advertising or -- advertise pieces on
websites. Of course they should always be
accessible. And the ways that you're
advertising to everybody, like whenever we
put ads in the Tribune or whatever, we
always put symbols that -- symbols for all
the access services. And also specialized
media. Puts out newsletters for Access
Living a lot. We let Gary know whatever
we're doing so he can advertise to his
audience. It takes a bit of aggressive
marketing to reach the audience. Then when
they come, making sure that the staff knows
what to do and that they enjoy the
experience and will come back again. And
all that is how you make -- those to me are
the elements to make your welcome. We'll
get into later about the how to of that.
But I think that's what it's all about.
>> JACLYN: All right. Thank you, Mike. The
next panelist I'm going to introduce is Gus
Zografopoulos. Did I get it? More or less?
Okay. Gus is a Chicago business man in the
food service industry. He is a public
speaker involving corporation, nonprofit
organizations, associations and community
organizations. He is director of the
Z-life program at Open Doors organization.
He is a member of the Chicago park district
disability advisory board and helped
develop the beach walks for the Chicago
beaches. On the United Airlines advisory
board for accessible travel and also
involved with the Rehabilitation Institute
of Chicago's sports program and peer
visitor program. I'm going to come all the
way over there to you, Gus, and hand the
mic to you. Long cord.
>> GUS: Good afternoon. Thank you for
having me on the panel. I see familiar
faces. For the most part organizations
like this, it's a community of friends and
we've grown and worked on so many different
projects. You see new people, you say --
when Theresa asked me to be part of this,
absolutely, because it's the most critical
thing. As someone who's -- Greek and born
in Brazil, it's all about having fun
enjoying yourself. And culture is in the
crux of it. I was injured 18 years ago, so
at the age of 33, I had been already
involved with the theaters, going to the
symphony and I find myself using a
wheelchair. And sort of being in a new
world, so to speak. Where do I begin? Let
me tell you, 18 years ago there was no
Wi-Fi in hospitals. You literally had a
modem and if somebody sent you a
one-megabyte picture of everything you're
there half a day in your hospital room
waiting to download that. It is amazing
what is available today. The resources,
information. You're here today, you're
going to hear from us. Without a doubt,
the information that exists on the Internet
is amazing. Myself included, I Google
everything nowadays. People are telling me
wherever I go, and what I do -- the one
thing is about accessible -- we worked
hard. At Open Doors -- I was really
fortunate enough to be involved with the
rebuild Chicago, that's where I went for my
rehab. Along the way I got involved with
-- met director Eric Lit. And as a business
man I understood one thing, customer
service. And we had done a number of things
related to the travel industry, the
airlines, and we even asked people who
travel. And what would it take them to
travel one more time -- that's traveling
with disabilities, what would it take them
to travel one more time? You think all
lavatories, absolutely. Bigger seats. It
wasn't that. It was customer service. So I
was looking at the number, 54 million
people. How it's growing. Well, I always
use 57 million. I want -- went on my iPad,
we just grew in 15 minutes to --
[Laughter]
>> GUS: 2.7 million. Let me take you one
more number. As a business man I look at
numbers. Assume this person has one
friend, one family member -- just one --
now we're talking 114 million people who
are directly connected to disabilities.
That's a huge number. And when the airlines
-- and we did the market studies -- asked
how much travellers spent, all of a sudden
they said 13 and a half billion dollars.
And the numbers per year. All airlines
were interested. Everyone was interested.
But the one common thread, no matter what
tools you provide, is the person. And in
my experience, because I travel
internationally, I've gone to Greece, I'm
very excited -- the most exciting thing had
a that happened most recently is the
Paralympics being shown on NBC. We have
gold medalists in Chicago who won gold,
Paralympics who won, rather. And not one
moment ever shown -- the exciting part is
look at those -- I was watching the shows,
and I was emotional. But I saw the
companies that were behind them. And the
marketing. And everyone -- it is very much
become a -- we are now mainstream. And it's
very interesting, because my experience has
taken me so many places. You know, in 2004
I was part of the Paralympics in Athens.
But the fault of Greece is we didn't take
it to the next step: Marketing. No one --
even Greece don't even know that there's
accessibility going up the Acropolis. If
you were to go to the national department
of travel for Greece, it talks everything
about travel, not one element about
accessibility. So for -- of course we're
-- where do travellers go? Travellers with
disability are very savvy. 80 percent of
the individuals use the Internet to get on
and get information. So they have the
money, we have disposable income, where do
we go? The place that's accessible. When
you go to Europe, the top three nations,
England, France, Germany. Not Greece. I
wish it was Greece. And yet I'm working
with the Onassis Foundation, saying look,
all the money you're giving to the
cultures, that's wonderful. Make sure you
throw some money towards accessibility.
What good is the cards if we can't be
accessible? Generally take a lot of humor
aspect. You have to laugh when you have a
disability, if you can't laugh at thing,
it's oh, my goodness, this can't be. And I
have to say over the years, having been
around some wonderful friends that I --
that I have grown with now and --
disability community, we understand we come
through, and it's really challenging when
you're in restaurants that say we're access
many of. Like a magic word, wheelchair
accessible in every review. You seem to
get there and what were they talking about?
We worked on -- there's a guide. I don't
know if you have known. An easy access
guide. We don't print them anymore,
because funding from the state. However,
there was a website we do maintain. We use
400 individuals with disabilities to
actually go out and do the site inspection.
Which is very critical. And we're in
languages as well. It's interesting,
though, Open Doors -- I use it all the time
-- the appropriate language and using
people first. The one common thread -- I
will leave you with this because we have a
lot to do -- one priest once asked me, how
do I interact, when I meet someone with a
disability. I say you're the priest, why
are you asking me? You know all the
answers. I thought about it, it was real
simple. Just say hi. Be yourself, be
relaxed and just say hi. So you can walk
away today, I can tell you, if you take
back anything, we want people to be them
twelves. We'll talk more about things. I
have a lot of -- some materials to share
with you. And I have to say the most
important thing as -- to each, ask, listen
and learn. Ask how can I accommodate you,
how can I help you? If the answer is no,
I'm fine, that's okay. No is okay. Listen.
What do they need? And learn. Apply it. So
those are simple. And talk about
experiences, and talk about where things
happen. It seems like I'm always taking a
path -- my father was in the hospital three
days, a stroke four years ago, he had to go
to the hospital the other day. I'm in the
hospital. Second floor, not one accessible
bathroom. Not one. Big hospital, mind
you. I had to go to the first floor. Third
floor. So I found -- every day, guess
where I'm going? First floor. But I made
sure, when I had the first chance to talk
to the advice president and the president,
I want them to know that it's not anymore
appropriate. Because sometimes they don't
-- if we say nothing, nothing will happen.
So we have good work ahead of you. A lot
of things have been done. And with United
Airlines, we get these airport projects and
take people with disabilities out from RIC
-- a great, a great program. You can have
is bringing -- going to therapeutic
department, rec departments, don't have the
funds, they could definitely use passes,
anything. Bring out those patients. Give
them exposure to your facility. They will
become your customers. They will bring in
more people. We have people that say I
don't want to take a plane going home. I'm
going by train, I'm going by bus. I say
you live in New York. You live in Florida.
California. They say, I just got injured,
there's no way. We bring them out to the
airport. We go through the process. TSA,
we get them in a seat, we show them what
it's about. We've had people go to the
counter and buy tickets to fly home. That's
the most exciting part. So thank you for
having me.
>> JACLYN: Thank you, Gus. And my one last
panelist I'll introduce, Carrie Sandahl.
An associate professor at the department of
disability and human development at
University of Illinois Chicago. Director
of Bodies of Work, and director of the
program of culture, arts and humanities,
research on the -- creation of disability
arts. Research and creative activity
focuses on disability and gender identities
in life performance, including theater,
life and performance art. Carrie?
>> CARRIE: Well low, everyone. Great to see
you out here today. I'm having some déjà vu
because last year we were planning our
justify norm muss Bodies of Work Festival,
and I was in your spot. It's nice to be not
the planner. To be a panelist. [Laughter]
>> CARRIE: I think it's great that there's
ongoing conversations about access and the
arts. And whatever cultural organization
you come from. But my perspective, I come
from multiple perspectives. Because I was
trained as a theater artist. So my
background is live performance. I have the
experience of being trained as an artist
and know what some of those barriers and
facilitators are to -- you know, back stage
spaces and -- I know we weren't going to
talk a lot about that today. But I have
that perspective from the artist side. And
then I have the planner side of me, which
is trying to plan large scale events for
people with disabilities. And encountering
a lot of different things that come up.
I've learned about that process. And also,
I have done some studies with Dr. Carol Gil
at UIC. And she's a psychologist by
training. She does more qualitative
research methods that I don't have as a
researcher. So I've partnered with her on
some studies for the national endowment for
the arts. And BSA art the, on arts careers
for people with disabilities. I learned a
lot from talking to artists all over the
country. With different types of
impairments, about their experiences. And
one of the reasons I say that is because
the people who are in your audiences now,
especially young people, are the future
artists. So when we were interviewing
people, one of the first things that we
learned about was that one of the barriers
to becoming an artist was not having access
to the arts when they were younger. So they
didn't have access to movie theaters or
didn't have access to theaters, they didn't
have access to museums. That was for a lot
of different reasons, financial,
transportation. Sometimes before the ADA,
the entire class would go on a field trip
but they didn't have an accessible bus, so
the disabled kids stayed behind. We had
tons of stories. When you're thinking
about losing your audience, think about
also the future artists who's out there,
who you know, may feel this -- being
welcome. They're not just -- they're part
of the community, right? And I think that's
really important. The other thing I wanted
to say is I think that the title of the
whole session today is kind of funny.
Because red carpets would be like the bane
of my existence. [Laughter]
>> CARRIE: Like a total trip hazard. I
would have to have it totally -- the stray
miscellaneous rugs, very dangerous for
those of us with mobility impairment the.
I thought that was kind of funny. So also
the other perspective that I'm coming from
is that -- I don't know, so I use crutches.
They're under the table. Sometimes I use
crutches. If I'm just walking over there,
I might not use them. Sometimes I use a
wheelchair. Sometimes I use nothing. And
some people are really confused by that.
Some people don't realize necessarily that
some of us use multiple aids or no aids.
So like oh, you can walk from here to
there, why are you using crutches?
Sometimes there's this air of suspicion
amongst those of us who use multiple forms
of mobility. If I'm using my chair and I
find myself in a cultural institution and
-- some people may have gone out of their
way to accommodate me as -- assuming that I
am kind of glued to my chair, that I go to
the bathroom and leave the chair outside to
walk in, they're like, what? They feel
tricked. [Chuckling]
>> CARRIE: I experienced that a lot, that
sometimes you're expected to say in a
certain kind of role -- stay in a role,
because disability is seen as something
fixed. And I have something that changes.
So sometimes I -- I think that -- have an
open mind to what the actual impairment is
or might be. It might not be what seems
apparent. So I guess that what's come up
already is the asking someone, you know, if
there's something that they need. Another
one is taking -- if there isn't something
someone needs, they'll tell you. But also
it might not always be what you expect is
needed. I'll give you a quick example. One
of the things that's most difficult for me,
especially when I -- using my crutches, is
standing in line. Really difficult for me.
It's very -- it's actually -- I have a lot
of pain issues with standing. So the
duration of time that I can stand in line
is very short. But when I'm in my
wheelchair, standing in line is very
comfortable. I can sit there all day. But
somehow when I'm in my wheelchair, people
are -- trip all over themselves to move me
to the front of line. But if I'm using my
crutches, then it's like I can stand. And
actually I'm a lot more -- have a lot more
impairment when I'm using my crutches than
when I'm in my wheelchair. So I have had a
lot of different arts venues -- it seems
there's something about the symbolism of
the wheelchair that kind of gets you moved
to the front of the line, when it actually
might be the person using the cane or
crutches, or you can tell from some other
difficulty walking or standing, who
actually needs the assistance more than the
person using the wheelchair. I always find
that interesting that when I'm in my chair,
I automatically kind of am assumed to need
more help than I do when I'm using my
crutches, when I actually do need more
help. I'm coming at it from all these
different perspectives. I'm excited to
share a lot of very specific information
for you along with the other panelists.
>> JACLYN: Thank you, Carrie. One thing
that I realize, we're getting to know our
panelists, they don't really know where you
guys come from. Now that you know their
expertise and experience, what I'd like to
do is a quick poll to find out what kind of
institutions you guys come from. That may
actually impact how they're answering our
questions from now on. So raise your hand
if you're from a zoo or aquarium. Okay.
Cool. Raise your hand if you're from
another type of museum or cultural
institution. What about from a theater? A
gallery? Anything I'm missing? Is anybody
here a student who doesn't -- yeah. Cool.
Life-long student. Anything else that I
missed, other categories?
>> Agency.
>> JACLYN: Agency? Okay. Cool. Maybe that
helps a little bit to see we have a broad
variety. Basically what I would expect,
having done -- this is our third Chicago
Cultural Accessibility Consortium workshop
now. One things that I want to point out
is that we are a little bit behind where I
thought I would be. But I also really want
to get into our questions and now that we
know where you guys are coming from, make
sure that our answers are applicable to you
guys and your work. What I want to do is
invite you guys, if you need to get up or
go to the bathroom or get water or cookies,
help yourself but we'll probably get into
-- over that time and get into the
networks. I think the value of the
conversation and getting to our questions
is more important than your noodling. I
want to take advantage of the expertise on
the panel here. I'm from a cultural
institution, from the zoo. I know a lot of
you guys are as well. I came up with
questions based on, you November, some
things that thought we should use to. I'm
auto going to use these questions, and
throw it out to the panel. Whoever wants
to answer it, can. If number of people
answer the same question. If anyone has
questions from the audience, I'm fine with
going off on tangents from you guys as
well. I may just try to kind of generally
keep us on base, though. So I'll try not
to be too rude and cut people off. I want
to make sure we get to a couple different
things that are relevant to our group here.
With all that being said, my first
question is -- has to do with the way
people prepare before they even come to
your institution. I'm going to leave this
question to you guys, and whoever want toss
jump on it can. Meeting the needs of
visitors starts before they arrive at your
cultural institute. Which a few of you
mentioned. What are some of the ways we can
help visitors with mobility disabilities to
plan their visit and be prepared to
navigate our venues. Maybe we can give
more specific examples or recommendations.
Carrie Sandahl care want to go down the
line?
>> JACLYN: You can.
>> CARRIE: The website is really important.
Having information on the website, the --
one of the most important things for me is
information on parking. And not just is
there parking, is there not. But what is
the distance from the parking to the
accessible entrance. So I was at the Field
Museum and the accessible parking was
actually really quite a long distance to
the parking. And actually probably the not
accessible parking would have been closer
than the accessible parking. Actually
telling distance. Putting within walking
distance is not a very helpful comment. So
giving like actual distances is more
helpful. And maybe I didn't know where the
closest entrance was to the parking. So to
me that's important. Also -- another thing
I've encountered is sometimes if you want
accessible tickets for like -- if I'm
taking my wheelchair, sometimes you have to
call a different number. Say that there's
a ticketing system and -- I encountered
this when I went to the Chicago Theater to
Fresh Beat Band with my daughter. You had
to call a separate number and leave a
message and then get called back. It made
it really difficult. I didn't understand
why it -- I had to go through many -- more
step toss get tickets. That was
frustrating. And also when you're thinking
about access, sometimes people assume that
the wheelchair access is also the best form
of access for other people with mobility
impairments. So for instance I would much
rather go up four steps than walk on a long
ramp. So anyway, I guess it is like -- the
idea about kind of the toilet seat.
Sometimes what works best for people with
wheelchairs doesn't work best for other
people. For instance, I do a lot of travel.
And other people often are making my
travel arrangements for me. And they know
I have a disability and they might be
confused because they might see me using a
choir sometimes and sometimes not. They
might automatically book for me a room
that's wheelchair accessible. And I'll say
no, not the wheelchair access. Because
like for instance the first row of seats on
the air plane, the bulkhead, everybody
thinks I want. But I actually don't want
the leg room. Because I can't -- if I sit
back all the way in my seat, my legs
dangle. And so it cuts off the circulation
on the back of my knees. So when I'm on
the plane, first minute I can, I put my
backpack under my feet. So that I can get
the pressure off my legs. But then when
you're in the bulkhead seat they often
won't let you do that. So its actually
better for me to sit in a smaller seat. In
the wheelchair accessible hotel rooms, they
often don't have bath tubs. They'll have
showers. Roll-in showers. My pain issues,
I really would like to be able to take a
bath. Or the toilets are too high. So
anyways, it's asking I guess the specific
questions about what someone needs is
important. I learned this from Bodies of
Work Festival if you also provide
information about public transportation,
let people know the best route from the
public transportation spot to the venue. So
we had that difficulty with our festival.
We had one place where the route from the
bus stop to the gallery was right with
construction barriers and other
difficulties that we didn't consider. And
we heard from people. So the other thing is
-- oh, I encountered this. I went to
frontier grill the other day. They have
valet parking. A lot of you may have that
with your institutions. When I pulled up,
my car has pedal extenders. And most valet
Parkers are okay with that. They can still
drive the car. When they saw me, they said
do you have hand controls? And I said no, I
don't have controls. And they said good
because we're not allowed to park cars with
hand controls. So I think that's kind of
funny because I think you still can use the
pedals. What I learned from that was there
was no information on -- anywhere that said
if you had hand controls, they won't park
your car. And if you were relying on that,
it would be necessary. Also when you're
advertising your event, if it's a
time-pegged event like it's going to start
at this time and end at that time, make
sure you put that time and make sure you're
aware what that time is going to be.
Because people who arrange for para transit
sometimes have to plan their rides way in
advance. When the driver comes to pick
them up, they're not going to wait around.
If something is over, the para transit
driver will talk to the usher, and usher
will try to find the person who needs it.
Sometimes people say we don't know how long
it's going to go. Then it might be really
difficult then for someone who's trying to
arrange a ride. That is important. That
kind of information, specific information
about distances, time, what is and is not
available really helpful to know.
>> JACLYN: Does one more person want to
answer that question? If there's anything
--
>> MICHAEL: Like Gus said, people don't know
what people say they're accessible. When
they say they're accessible. I ask
specific questions. Some people,
accessible is about -- a flight of stairs
to get in here. So I always ask specific
questions. So know what it is. Know first
of all that you are accessible and the best
way to do that is to consult with people
who have mobility disabilities. Just
because you have a flatten trance or just
because you think you are, you may not be
as accessible as you thought. Or you could
be more accessible than you thought.
That's why it's good to ask. And then be
prepared to answer specific questions. If
you don't know the answer, be prepared to
find it out. And get back to the person.
We also offer discounts if it's for -- we
feel affordability is part of
accessibility. So we have no problem --
all you have to do is say I want the access
price. Even if you don't have a
disability, we're not going to make you
prove it. You get $20 tickets if you say
you want the access price. We think that's
part of making it accessible.
>> GUS: What's interesting is -- really
about the experience. But understand ADA
laws has a lot of elements about what you
must do and minimum and so forth and what
not. Assuming that I arrive with five
friends of mine, and we want to all sit
together -- this happened in Florida. I
went to a circus. 20 of my friends. We
just showed up. We were at a conference, we
went -- my friends say I know the clown in
the -- let's go, he knows my buddy. Let's
go down. 20 of us show up. And the
accessible spaces -- they only have one
person. I said excuse me, my friends are
willing to give up front row seats to sit
in the balcony with me. And your show's
only half full. What do you mean the ADA
law? You don't understand. It's the
experience of the friends and myself. So it
has occurred. There are a number of
favorite places to go. What I will tell
you, when you want sports and that, united
center, you call up, tells you how many
people will be with you? Four? We'll take
care of you. You can sit together. That
the most critical things. When you're
preparing, five of us. Where are we going
to put them? You want to try to get them as
close you can. And transportation,
thinking about the valet, you show up in a
lot of places, imagine your venue is in the
middle of the street and the valet person
has no clue in saying let me get you
through -- they don't know how to bump you.
There's no ram much to get you above. So
you got to go to the corner. Unless you're
athletic enough to jump over. But to get
to the corner -- you have to fight through
traffic to get to that corner. One of the
things that we do have now is -- in is with
benefit of -- with Open Doors, the open
taxis. For the first time we know -- it's
very challenging with PACE. Let me tell
you. I deal with my father. The day
before, 24 hours before, you got to be on
time. If you're not waiting five minutes
after they arrive, they can't take you.
However, you can wait an hour or two for
them and it's okay for them to be late.
Where's that freedom? Now you have a
resource. And that's having a taxi service
that is prompt and can provide you -- start
putting that into your information. Because
that will entice more people to come out to
your venues. Because transportation is the
key. Why would you come out? It takes
forever to get prepared. To get ready --
imagine for me to get ready when I'm
traveling -- the treater, I'm not going to
have a meal before -- I'm traveling, it's
24 hours. If I want to go to a theater or
show not knowing exactly where the venue is
going to be in terms of accessibility of
the restrooms and all that, I am
conservative. So those are components to
be aware of.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a question. On
the taxi service, is there special number?
>> GUS: Yes, there's a number. Want the
number now?
>> JACLYN: Do you have that handy? You have
a handout? He has a handout about the open
taxis at the end you can grab. I'd love to
take any questions you have specifically
about information you can provide before
somebody comes to your site. Kind of on
that topic, do you guys have any questions
for the panel? Otherwise I can jump to my
next question. I guess I'll do that. Let's
see. We'll go ahead and go in order. I
think this is a great one. One that a
couple of us were talking about earlier.
Many of our spaces in institutions are cash
strapped. How can we get the buy-in of
administrators or senior staff to put more
funds into creating accessible spaces?
>> GARY: I would say two things to that.
First of all, a number of people mentioned
in the disability community when you find
something that works, we keep going back.
And so if you're looking for incentive,
you're talking about one of the most loyal
customer base communities I think that
there may be. If you can set yourself apart
as being the accessible theater or
accessible museum, reputation will grow and
it may be worth it. But kind of straying
away from that a little bit, oftentimes we
ask questions about that -- about what can
we do to make our place more accessible.
Because so often accessibility is an
afterthought. And so I would kind of say,
yeah, maybe we can't always invest this
money, but every institution at some point
is going to go forward with new
construction or with additions or things
like that. And the key is to -- everything
you do, from this point forward, make sure
that accessibility is integrated into that.
And like when we're talking about
universal design, our architects give
people tours, one of the most common
questions they always get is doesn't this
cost a lot more to make it accessible for
everyone? It's not about necessarily doing
things differently or getting stuff that's
not available -- products that aren't
available, that are going to be more
expensive because they're custom made.
It's putting thought into it and designing
appropriately. And it's not going to cost
that much more if it's done at the front
end of things. It's key to integrate it
from day one from whatever you're doing
from this point forward, I think.
>> THERESA: Just a quick suggestion. Hire
somebody who has a disability. When I
first started working after I became
disabled, I was hired at the Evanston arts
council, located in the Noyes cultural arts
center. They had a ramp. I was able to
access the building, to first of all be
interviewed. I got the job. The first
thing I did when I got the job was I called
UI C, their assistive technology
department. And they had somebody come out
and do an assessment of the building.
Particularly the spaces where I was
working, so I can get in and out, et
cetera. And he did a beautiful write-up and
turned it in. And this was '94, which was
four years after the signing of the ADA.
The law was passed in '90 and then approved
in '92.
>> ROBIN: Implemented for employment.
>> THERESA: So I worked there for eight
years. And during that time tremendous
change took place. Because I was there.
Because I was -- they saw the day-to-day
need of a person who was using a
wheelchair. The ramp was certainly not to
code. That was replaced. And the funny
thing you mentioned about the distances, I
measured it one time. It was 300 feet from
the ramp to the parking lot. So I would
park my van and then have to go -- the
people less able to maneuver had to go the
longest distance to get into the building,
to have access into the building. So
finally they put in a lift and -- in the
entrance that was adjacent to the parking
lot. Bathrooms, suddenly got spruced up
and, you know, became very nice and very
accessible. Ultimately they put in an
elevator that reached all three floors. I
was only able to access the first floor. So
it was over an eight-year period. These
things can't happen overnight. But it was
-- so I say hire a person with a disability
and maybe things will start happening
faster.
>> GUS: We just talked about simple number.
57 million people. Plus one, 114 million.
But understand worldwide, 15 to 20 percent
of the population has a disability. And
what is accessible for one is accessible
for everyone. Let me tell you, in the
airports, most of those accessible stalls
are not frequented by those with
disabilities, but by a lot of people with
luggage and so forth. You have a lot of
elements that you can say it's accessible.
But individuals with disabilities have
disposable income. And just like myself, 33
years old, didn't have a disability. Was
not injured. Got hit by a car. All of a
sudden I have a knee -- and I continued to
be a businessman. I continued to spend
money. There's something symbolic. It
happens to restaurants when -- I had a --
several friends call me to go out for
dinner. To a restaurant. They said we'd
love for you to join us for dinner. At
such restaurant. What's great about this
restaurant? The food is great, the ambiance
is great. It has an accessible lavatory.
Not -- the restroom. I'm thinking that
restaurateur probably thought why did I
spend this money, I never see anybody in a
wheelchair to use this bathroom many and
their customers recognize that there's an
accessibility factor. I guarantee you my
friends will eat there more often, spend
more money, guarantee they will have an
enjoyable -- they know, if Gus comes here,
he can enjoy himself. So what may seem
like it's not being used, your donors, the
people who are buying your tickets,
recognize that while they're -- they're on
top of things. So the image you're
projecting is very critical as well.
Because when we do these programs at RIC,
getting tickets to the theaters and perhaps
museums, those donors that give all this
big money, when they hear the power of RIC
and all these other therapeutic rec
programs, they feel good about it. You may
not be making money on that particular
deal, but you're making money overall. So
when you're trying to convince people, it's
the image. You want to make sure that
you're in. And that's important.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: The first thing I did
was bring in the Great Lakes ADA to do
training and I made sure somebody from
every department was in attendance and we
videotaped it and shared it with those who
couldn't attend. And then I forwarded
lawsuits. Boy, that get --
>> CARRIE: You forwarded them?
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: The finding of lawsuits
from the ADA against the museum. Just to
make them aware. Sly, but it works.
[Chuckling]
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Getting their attention.
>> CARRIE: I was on the faculty of Florida
state University theater for several years.
This is how I worked with our team. We
had a program that's called the patrons
program. They would -- people who
regularly gave money to the theater, they
would get perks, like preshow discussions
and receptions. Often was receptions. And
I noticed that almost -- I would say most
of the patrons were people who were older,
seniors. And a lot of people had
disabilities. A lot of people were using
canes or walkers and such. These were the
people that they were also grooming to do
planned giving. Right? And so I was
thinking to the dean, look around, there's
no place for people to sit at this
reception because it's -- there's standing
only. Put some chairs down. But if -- a
few tables so people can sit down. Buffet
is the worst. For disabled people. If
you've got crutches and a cane and -- so
most of the people there -- the buffet was
difficult. They couldn't stand around with
a glass of wine and talk. These are the
people you want to stand around with a
glass of wine. Give them a couple of
glasses of wine, you know? [Chuckling]
>> CARRIE: You're talking about doing
planned giving. I had the Dean realize
that people when they get older, it's
generational too. The generation of people
who are getting very elderly now don't
always recognize that they have
disabilities. They don't identify as
having disabilities. They'll say I don't
walk so well. Or they -- they won't ask
for things because they don't know that
they can. They assume that it's not for
them anymore. Once we started making the
patrons events more accessible, then they
came. They gave more money. So that was --
sometimes you have to use the financial
argument and that was what worked for me,
anyway.
>> JACLYN: Want to add something?
>> MICHAEL: I had four points, but you gave
one of them. The bigger you are, the less
excuse you have. If we -- we spend about
$250 per server to accommodate people. If
a line person -- there is no way we can't
afford to spend $250 to make it accessible.
That's one thing. Number two is it doesn't
cost that much. We do -- what we do to
accommodate people in wheelchairs is --
costs nothing. They roll in, they sit
down. What we spend per show for blind and
deaf people is about anywhere from 1,000 to
1500 dollars. Might sound like a lot. But
in a big budget that's not very much.
Number three, sometimes you find sources of
funding that you would not have had before
if you weren't accessible. Places that
will give you money because you are
accessible. And you find new funding. But
even if you don't, we make it part of each
show. As much as we do lighting or sound.
And a budget for each show includes access.
And you wouldn't say we're going to do a
show with sound if we can find money for
sound. Or we're not going to have any
lighting for this show unless we find money
for lighting. When we find money, it goes
to that. And you get creative when your
budget says access is part of what you have
to raise money for. And whoever is raising
money, will -- also just as hard to raise
money for that as they will for money and
sound because they know the show doesn't go
on with it.
>> JACLYN: If you don't mind, I'm actually
go going to take a break from our questions
and open it up to the group. Because I bet
some of you have some burning questions,
hopefully. And we'll take ten minutes to
do Q and A. If you guys don't have other
questions, I can ask a couple of mine. But
we'll spend a little time doing open
discussion and try to end it about quarter
of 4:00. Questions from the audience here?
Burning questions. If you don't have any,
that's okay.
>> I work in the guest services staff at
Chicago Shakespeare. I think one of the
biggest barriers to our patrons with
disabilities is that PC language. If we
ask them specific questions, is that going
to be embarrassing for the person with
disability. So we don't ask those
questions if we see somebody with crutches
in line, would you like to move up to the
front to have a seat? How do we approach
that as -- the frontline staff to really
remove that barrier of that kind of
awkwardness?
>> CARRIE: As Theresa said in her opening
remarks, I think that if it's done matter
of factually, you know -- I would just --
I've been in many -- someone comes out and
says you know, I see -- would you like to
move to the front of line or is there
something I can do for you? I mean, I don't
know anybody who finds that offensive.
Because there's that necessary language you
have to use -- you don't have to say I see
you're all crippled you up there.
[Chuckling]
>> CARRIE: I think it's the
matter-of-factness that makes us come to
believe to get help. There was a situation
where I needed help. I went to a
consignment sale for a fund raiser for a
kids thing. They had not thought about
access at all. And I needed help carrying
the stuff that I had bought. I actually
spent a lot of money there -- to my car.
And I asked if there was somebody that
could help me. And they were frantic
because it was this big sale. And the
person just -- rolled their eyes like that.
And then she says, let me see. And so she
had me standing there waiting with a bag of
clothes. And then she was running around
trying to find someone who would help me.
In that amount of time she could have
helped me. So anyway, she finally finds
someone. And that woman says where are you
parked? And I was like, my -- and she said,
you should give me your bag. And so I said
you know what? I said I would rather have
no help than this kind of help. And I just
said I really don't want your help. And I
just took the stuff, the clothes myself.
It wounded my pride. And I thought I was
not going to go back to that sale. I knew
some board members and said you know what,
that was really -- I was really -- I was
really made to feel ashamed that I needed
help. So I want -- one of the things I had
on my list, is I know theaters get busy and
you're trying to seat everybody. As you
saw here, sometimes people with
disabilities take a little extra time. And
people get frustrated. If you know you
have a volunteer or an usher or someone who
could be called upon, an extra -- someone
around that you can ask to do something
like that. So I think that what was
happening was they didn't think of it, so
there was no one to help. So they had to
ask someone to leave their station where
they were checking the clothes out. To
come help. And then they got frustrated
with me. So I think that it's not so much
the words, it's the attitude. And then it
is also the -- if someone says oh, I'm
good. Then just, okay, great. Let us
know, though, if there is something that
you need. Fine. The worst irritating thing
has been if someone doesn't ask if you need
help and they might like -- like say that
I'm going down some stairs. And there's no
handrail -- which happens in a lot of
theaters. Sometimes usher or somebody will
hold on to you. I'm doing it to Gary right
now without his permission. [Chuckling]
>> CARRIE: Sometimes people will -- instead
of waiting to ask what you need, they'll
start to move you or grab you. Or they'll
push the other -- in wheelchairs, you both
have power chairs, you're a little more
intimidating. But if you have a manual
chair, someone will come up behind you and
start pushing you without your help. That
happens a lot.
>> MICHAEL: Start carrying you.
>> CARRIE: My fingers are then in the
spokes. I think someone pushes me, my
fingers can get caught in the spokes. I
think actually -- asking is the best thing.
And I really -- I think the impulse that
you're having is really great. And I know
that language can seem a barrier. If you
make it like nonchalant and go -- without
the paternalistic -- does that help, does
that make sense?
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yeah.
>> GARY: I think you can ask the question in
a way how can we make people with
disabilities feel comfortable? But also I
think it's -- it's the other side of coin
too. I think -- maybe Carrie's situation
might have been at the store being like --
the person was uncomfortable around
disability. I think we -- as an
institution, the goal would be to make the
staff comfortable around disability. And
one -- resource for that might be like a
disability awareness training. Or
something like that. There's plenty of
groups in Chicago that would be happy to do
that for free. So I think that might be
helpful. It's just making sure, you know,
staff is comfortable around disability and
they're comfortable treating people just
like people. Who happen to have
disabilities.
>> THERESA: Just a brief -- I was at an
event a couple weeks ago -- this is the
opposite side of it. And I rolled in. It
was at my church. Where I'm very
comfortable. But this was another group
that was using the building. And one of the
people standing there just came rushing to
me. What can I -- how can I help you?
Here, let me sign in for you. It was like
do I look helpless? Like -- you know. So
there's like the balance, you know. And I
think if you're natural and welcoming and
smile, say hi, and kind of wait. We're
pretty vocal when we want something.
[Chuckling]
>> GUS: What's interesting in a lot of
industries there's similar and common
threads. In the airline industry for
example the law says they cannot ask about
-- or ask what's your disability is. You
need something accessible. We've been --
we deal with all the airlines, with --
symposium. They all share similar aspects.
It comes down to the same thing that
you're confronted with. You can ask a
question, like you need accessible seating
to come to your theater or venue. How can
-- you need an assist? Can you transfer? By
asking -- create those points that when
you're selling them in terms of
reservation, you have sort of a cue of
asking questions. And at the same time I'm
always, always educating the disability
community to give the information. If
you're traveling, if you're going to a
theater, tell them what your needs are.
Shame on you, you're expecting them to know
about you, and yet how do they prepare for
you? Don't you want to have a good
experience? The more they know about you,
the chances are they're going to be
prepared. That's the other thing, once you
have that information, make it work.
Because nothing's more frustrating than
spending 10, 15 minutes providing all this
wonderful information and showing up to the
venue and not knowing about -- and I think
that's important. The staff -- going back
to what we've been saying here, is not only
being comfortable, know enough about your
facility. Know enough about the venue. I
was at a theater downtown, it was so
massive. It was intimidating. The moment
I walked in -- we've been waiting for you.
It felt like I was VIP. They -- because
they identified -- you know, granted we are
some -- in disabilities, but in those
moments or not, and they're visible, make
that -- we're ready for you. We can't wait
for you to enjoy this experience. So
preparedness is very key.
>> JACLYN: All right, guys. So we are
basically out of time as far as the formal
panel discussion goes. We just do still
have a little bit of time for networking
and hanging out in the space. And so I
want to invite you to speak with anyone --
anyone of the coordinators for the CCAC and
any of our panelists, as long as they have
a little bit of time to stick around. This
is a conversation that can keep going. I
feel bad we skipped a couple questions. I
think you guys provided an awesome overview
today. If you will join me in giving them
a round of applause. I really appreciate
them being here. [Applause]
>> JACLYN: Really appreciate all the
personal stories and all the expertise that
you guys shared. And I think we all got a
lot out of it. And hopefully we can
continue to reach out to different
audiences at our institutions and make them
more accessible. A quick announcement --
perfect. Thank you. Could I see that? So
our next workshop is coming up on April
25th. For providing services and
programming for guests who are blind or
have low vision. It will be held at Access
Living. Which is right about Chicago and
Dearbornish. Am I right? And so yeah, that
will be April 25th. At 3:00 to 5:00 p.m.
We have flyers at our check in table and a
bunch of other flyers and resources over
there. Be sure to check that out. If you
are not on our Facebook or our list serve,
please be sure to get in touch with us so
you can stay in touch on our next
workshops.
>> CARRIE: How long do we have this space
for now?
>> JACLYN: We have this space until -- do
you remember? I -- I think we have it --
>> THERESA: Have to be out of the building
by 4:30.
>> JACLYN: We are probably going to start
moving chairs in about 15 minutes. But we
have the space until 4:30. Which is 45
minutes. Thank you for asking that. Feel
free to take your time and come talk to our
panelists. Okay. That's it. Thank you
guys. [Applause]