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silhouettes talked about uh...
unlucky and uh...
just as a figure i mean this is a but what let me ask you this i mean
obviously
uh... i don't honestly don't know if there's any individual in the world at
this point
who knows as much about uh... uh... how he came to be
uh... assassinated
or were killed by the uh...
uh... the united states
um... immediately i mean i think you probably know
more about this in any time
what but why why do you
heat simple of this and what is it about what
that he is
telling of the
eight broader story
you know i i remember uh... actually remembered veenad wallach he uh... arm
television after nine eleven
and because at the at the time i was working for democracy now
as a producer and you know we were looking for
uh... you know in places that have on responded to the attacks and why we
never were able to book and the one of the people we're looking at what this
imam in virginia did anwar locket occurred about n_p_r_
and he was on p_b_s_ inhibin profiled in the washington post
for pizza bout ramadan and he was sort of being presented in the corporate
media
as um... at the go to him on the guy who would help
uh... they the american people understand the experience a muslim
americans in the aftermath of the attack friend uh... and that's why i he was
already a member knew we were that i totally forgot about him for years and
years and then
the um...
though for quick shooting happened
uh... where did all the time to open fire on his fellow soldiers as army
secada trip in november of two top of the night of fort worth texas
and all the stories are popping up about how hard while rocky
had been in email contact with him and was involved with the attack and when we
looked into that there turned out that yes indeed there in email contact but
the email tote bag that that have been really show that perhaps out of paper
just kind of a prophetic
uh... stalker
who would like asking a lockheed part of a wife and asked him all these questions
about jihad and a lockheed basically whatever sponding to limit all of the
cholesterol occupied or sunday at this point
a locket left united states he habit radicalized by watching the wars
in iraq afghanistan i would have to get out will grade one part of a little for
the treatment of muslims in the united states was already in a path to sort of
radical impatient
when he was in yemen where his ancestral roots argued or he was born in new
mexico but his family's originally from yemen
um... he was basically like bumping around trying to figure out what to do
with it like to be started
putting out by your tapes and dump and publishing blog and up
and united ticket had him arrested in the event of a kind of trumped up charge
of intervening a tribal dispute as put in prison for eighteen months seventeen
of them in solitary confinement
and we came out of prison
uh... you know what he was a very changed man and he the internet became
his mopped
and he developed a very vibrant online community and increasingly radical
radical radical
uh... i had the u_s_ words expanded and dumb and then the dollar fund shooting
happened a lot keeping that's brought up in it
i think it's it's it's quite possible occupied sweet nothing to do with
planning operation or encouraging it
but what he did but the next day he brought a block or two for the dollar
father the hero
and then a c_i_a_ had his blog shut down
and uh... i have a new outside set out to try to uh... to kill it and the first
time we know that the u_s_ tried to kill a lock you within
uh... december twenty four two thousand nine per day before the uh... the
so-called underwear bobek tried to bring down the plane over to play
and from that moment until photographer deeply felt eleven
when al waukee was killed
um... he was on the run adhering to talk with tried to kill them
and the reasons why i felt that they tend to go to the reason that i
became too invested in the story
because
the idea that you would
authorize the fascination of u_s_ citizen
on the basis of his admittedly atrocious reprehensible speech
uh... telex such as he replied for up to the society to be crossing and the fact
that only get its constituents six wilder members of congress
said anything about it
they tried to pass a bill
that's the conventional occupied simply said that perfect camp
extra traditionally killed american without due process all g_-twenty six
congress members five hundred twenty catholic you know where where the uh...
we're lucky party people back let me know complaining about on strike against
american uh... but the point is that his father there to be the the not so lucky
with you this upstanding amazing prominent
yemeni academic who was educated united states petted toward united states and
and that that family let me into their whole archive but i read
essays from various family members are to be able to interview female members
of our voice family kids sister his mother into other siblings
to be around their children to spend time with them in their home
antonio it's a story that represents so much of what happened how far
across the line we've gone
uh... under a popular democratic administration i think we're going to
look back here later in status as a turning point
the the mob that
the president you know if it's popular attractions that killed three u_s_
citizens um... to whom
were not even up to kill west which would clarify women coming up
grab the email beware the story so when you say what you were producer at
democracy known you were looking aunt uh...
milwaukee as a guest it was because at that time he was almost like a in
ambassador that was sort of i mean uh...
in informal ambassador to
islam and to sort of doing on your show you eat your food today
and we're talking about uh... what happened in boston and people want to
put her down
understand if there if there's a motivation that have anything to do with
uh... you noted with terrorism or you know any kind of an islamist radical
group
he would have been the guy guy that they would have had on who would have
developed a method in boston and probably said you know let's not rush to
judgment where where they are but here at the start of players in the world and
because what i think the proper response to the maps if you were doing it a bit
on msnbc would've been c_n_n_ i was a different media culture of the best we
were looking for
the book people like that because we're looking for people who were affected
either because of
who they were religious leader at berkeley
um... or or just in truckee perspective in general are lucky with the kind of
corporate media embraced as
assertive expert on how certain communities were feeling and were
impacted by nine eleven right in some ways is pushed back to this notion of
like there's no way minds out there who are being yet
as who are being responsible
in silk uh...
i couldn't book and the people who put the pentagon
at the pentagon row rocky was invited after nine eleven fifty pentagon pool
luncheon
and actually gave a speech inside of the pentagon
and we we have the emails from the planning of that
and the pentagon officials
are paying back you know this is a fascinating guy if he's going to come in
and get a lecture about
the role of the top of the with the post nine eleven world and he also conducted
prayer service and inside of the capitol in congress so he was clearly viewed
in chambers of power even in the defense establishment in congress as someone who
with an acceptable part though
though the debate on united states for the discourse on on on what
our responses society should be to the attacks in fact you
uh... your reporting
you think that there may be some reason to believe that the f_b_i_
was leaning on him pretty heavily to be an informant
uh... or they had a already got what they were leaning out of a question for
you to go to work with them
you know i think it's the kind of the cockpit surrender people read the book i
got a guy try to break it down in a dip in the digestible way but
the short version of it is that
well lucky with the first starting opportunity mom he was living person
colorado imminent sandiego
and twenty eight oh he got bob stated not to be fixed
about solicitation of a *** charge
and a lock you can talk whenever the fed up about the
feds tried today and get in there to start informing on uh... members of his
mouth and and basically being a spy for them
you know he said that he he didn't want anything to do with them
and he gets busted out on similar charges a fed that also was trumped up
and uh... and and that they cut leaning on him
and admitting bc after nine eleven he was told that i think a dozen times by
the f_b_i_
and it could it turned out that a couple of the night eleven hijackers had
attended prayer services at his
mock-up at about eleven commission determined that there is no conclusive
evidence d_n_a_ actual dealings with them of any relevant but the but the
point of fabric clearly with the one that we had a lot of interaction with
the f_b_i_
uh... but also remit book about how
he was driven to a meeting
by the f_b_i_ uh...
uh... in performance
with a another
uh... sort of a radical uh... guy in virginia who was in the amount of
prominent lecturer
who ended up going to prison for being involved with it with something called
the paintball jihad conspirator he's got the religion the training to go and
fight
along for the taliban in afghanistan de la ke was driven to this meeting
with this guy couldn't by an f_b_i_ informant with a waiter gets convicted
comment sent to prison for life for allegedly being involved with this
paintball
uh... jihad
um... advice spoke to but i've talked to people who worked with the f_b_i_ at the
time um... who told me that they think that the f_b_i_ most certainly was
trying to cultivate m_f_n_ asset and and the question that i think you remain to
be seated
what would it be fought them
uh... what i do know that when you left the united states in two thousand two
uh... never to come back again
uh... he was under immense pressure from the f_b_i_ to cooperate in all sorts of
activities and i think the key
accommodation agreed with the fact that it is best for him to out out of her
grieved so will you know we may never told me the f_b_i_
and uh... and a dead man know about that
to london for some period of time he ends up in yemen he these imprisoning
him in the fourth eighteen months and you
your your reporting is basically concludes that
that is when he becomes
amma highly radicalized
uh... and academic head here a little bit but at one point he ends up in shah
blog which is sort of the um... yet
did it and and that's a around the tribal region where his family had come
from the s_ and in the yeah and and and at one point he
uh... when it becomes clear that the united states was essentially is that it
has it has an issue with him
um...
is at the very least ameen
none of the charges that uh... president obama has talked about have been
substantiated in any way in any public forum they may may not be true
he was approached by by uh...
uh... yemenese
uh...
would basically say look
um...
what else tell us what they say to him at that point
in this wives
so um... rapidly underwear bomb plot happens uh... you know there are there
weren't all there will be preparations in the media becky
had not without a lockheed really deranged algerian kiddin inhibited met
with a lock you got a lot he gave his blessing and that uh...
and that a lot he was involved operationally with planning that mission
um... and n so in january of two thousand pound the washington post
reports that awak he had a couple of other americans are on a kill west being
operated by
tick tock him if he had a
epidemic issue correction to fifty eight that we don't have that are killer so
that i was just a thought that i had a meticulous
um... and uh... and so there
they're hunting a lackey down keep writing and shall blog he's moving from
house to house
the head of intelligent in yemen who the guy you know u_s_ back guy
comes to the how lucky family guy watching from a very prominent family
and you haven't had dumb an anti-war like his father
uh... established the school of agricultural engineering at university
of toronto i get multiple decrease from united statement has
you know very close long-time friends with
u_s_ i_d_ people and pittsburgh people
and they come to a make it work in a few if u
don't get a lot more to come back to carve out a couple of yemen and
basically let's put him
under house arrest animal treated while the americans are gonna kill them with
the drone
and um... and they start warning you know the family about that
and um... and in fact i think the first time that they felt that the family with
even before the madonna found thing it was then um... everythin may of two
thousand nine which uh... which sheila predates all of the stuff by month to
month so clearly they already been america try telling the anti government
we're gonna go after this guy so they try to get on why the surrender on march
such as father michael at the american tell me which way to put my bad
um... and out of the lack of recession that he had with his dad of anyone
full-blown underground
send up a
heater you took on another wife while he was underground that actually
their marriage was facilitated by the d_f_a_
uh... and that's a very long story but the short of that it that the t_i_a_a_
used it i'd danish
geog former jihad as turned informant
um... to facilitate finding away from our lucky and she was from croatia and
the woman herself didn't know that that she was being fed up she would she want
to go in marriott mara like you would like you know be dating for the few in
the chatter
and then sheet
if they've given luggage
with a tracking device in it
and oddity flight into thought i don't like you can't pick her up and they did
it's all of the luggage and all over things
and she disappears and and lived her life underground married to a bar lucky
for the ph facilitated a polygamous
uh... you know it lifestyle of uh... of anwar lucky now
the reason why
ask about where that that first instance where
uh... yemenese intel
intelligent basically big said you know you're gonna get killed we're talking
may two thousand nine now so
president obama everything happened president obama's been in it's in the is
before thing happens it's also
presumably
uh... we're talking about personal bomb has been in office now for four five
months ostensibly right with the the narrative we are to believe it is that
this structure in which you put an american or anybody on a akhil list
precedes the time that they're on the killers
writing a but we knew about it we didn't know
with that particular a topic it's reported that that the king of the
carriers articulate and generate twenty ten
um... but high i_q_ it could have been that he already with on the killers
prior to
president obama taking office
uh... you know i oh i don't know of any of any evidence that
president bush tried to kill a locking i do know that he was very much on their
radar and that john maker padre who was the director of national diligent
with instrumental in keeping anwar lock-in president was very angry when
the u_s_ released them so i think it's possible that they had determined that a
lot you needed to die
uh... when bush was still in office and that
it all baba
started to
intensify the focused on yemen and made a locking sort of target number one
uh... but i do know but i know for my reporting is true is that the emini
government which was quietly with u_s_
with telling a lucky family that he's going to kill but a drone if they didn't
bring him and and you know in in
made two thousand nine before the underwear bomber before amid all the
time
and before the washington post said that i walk you've had a killer stats that's
crucial
to understand a couple of things
one is that the whole narrative that we've been told about that they have
developed this uh... sort of legal framework is really done in retrospect
in other words after and and and and that i think is is is crucial
in addition also to understanding at the narrative that there was actually sort
of
a uh...
that the he was killed because he was a operational in some respects is also
pretty suspect