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>>> Coming up next on "Arizona
Horizon," renowned physicist
Lawrence Krauss stops by for a
discussion on science news,
tonight he'll enlighten us on
dark matter, and hear how an ASU
research team is leading efforts
to increase the efficiency of
photovoltaic photocells, those
stories next on "Arizona
Horizon."
"Arizona Horizon" is made
possible by contributions from
the friends of eight, members of
your Arizona PBS station, thank
you.
>>> Good evening and welcome to
"Arizona Horizon."
I'm Ted Simons.
The state will receive 355,000,
as part of a national settlement
with google over alleged privacy
violations.
The settlement splits 17 million
between 37 states, and involves
allegations that google use an
advertising loophole to track
the online activities of
millions using web browsers, the
state attorney general's office
announced Arizona's portion of
the system.
No word on how the money will be
allocated.
>>> And southern Arizona
congressman Ron barber announce
he would be running for
re-election.
He expressed some hesitation
about another run but tells the
Arizona Capitol Times that he's
committed to keeping his seat in
Arizona's second congressional
district.
>> Lawrence Krauss joins us to
talk about the latest science
news.
Here to explain is Lawrence
Krauss.
And you are saying that this is
not necessarily a bad thing.
>> No news is good news.
>> Right.
>> As I was saying, although you
disagreed, sometimes it's better
to be right than sexy,
sometimes.
Because what's interesting, this
is one of the most important
mysteries around.
What's the stuff that dominates,
this and we think it's a new
particle, and there are these
detectors, and they are really
difficult experiments, because
they are looking for one event a
year, you know, with a very
small amount of energy to
deposit a detector because the
parcels don't interact and, and,
or with light, and I know you
will be talking about solar
energy later, but these
particles don't interact with
the sun, so on the whole, they
go through the Earth, without,
without interacting, and you
have to be sensitive, have
sensitive detectors.
The day after we had our last
meeting here, I guess, and I am
happy to say I guessed right,
they would not see anything, and
rarely will I guess on TV, but
the other observation, and there
have been some by groups in
Italy and other groups in the
United States, have all produced
one or two events, but the
radioactive backgrounds are all
over the place, and they just
didn't smell right.
If they had been right it would
have been astounding.
But, I think that it's, it's
really good that this
experiment, in the whole, has
shown that we don't have to
worry about those, we don't have
to invent baroque models to
explain the dark matter, and the
kind of dark matter that we
think is out there, is more
likely going to be harder to
find, and we'll discover it or
in fact, this detector, that
announce the negative results is
the first generation of the
whole new type of detector, I'm
involved in one collaboration,
and noble gases, which are pure
because noble gases don't
combine with any other element,
so you can get very low rates of
activity.
And those detectors are the new
generation of detectors, and
this one was small but they are
going to be built up to one to
ten tons, and will look and
maybe one of them will, will get
a signal that could be
confirmed.
>> So, this and reading about
this, it sounds like not only
did they find nothing but they
found clear nothing, which is
good thing because it means the
process seemed to work.
>> Exactly, when you are at the
edge, in fact, last time we
talked about this, the edge of
what you can detect, and when
you are at the edge of what you
can detect, you don't know if
it's significant, if you are
building a detector to detect
one event a year and you see
that, is it an accident or
radioactive background?
So, what this detector could do
was statistically show, with
very convincingly that they
ruled out all the other, other
observations, which were not
wrong.
But they were just bad
accidents.
They were just -- just
unfortunate occurrences
radioactivity or something.
>> So what does that mean about
dark matter theory in general?
>> Well, it means that we're
still -- that, that, that, well,
it means that we don't know what
it is, which is really the most
important thing it, means that
everything is up for grabs, and
we're virtually certain it's a
new type of particle, but it
does mean that, that the kind of
theories that may be tested at
the collider, will produce
events which would not have been
detectable in the current set of
detectors.
They are too low of a rate.
But, you will need the bigger
detectors if, all goes well,
these detectors and collider,
there is a race, whether we
produce dark matter with the
accelerators, or whether we
measure the matter from the
beginning time, and there is a
race.
If we are lucky we may see it in
both places at the same time
confirming that it's there and
then we'll know the makeup of
90% of the mass of the universe,
and we'll have learned that 90%
of the mass of the University is
made of something different than
and I are made of, which is
amazing.
>> It is amazing.
And quickly, for reference
purposes here, we're talking
about possibly, we think that
these are subatomic parcels left
over?
It's like smoke going through a
screen door kind of thing?
>> You can call it that.
There are sub atomic particles,
and there are lots of them
around, called nutrinos.
There are 300 per cubic
centimeter but we have never
been able to detect them because
they interact.
We know they are there, but we
have not figure out a way to
detect them, so there is lots of
stuff, more are than meets the
eye, and that makes, makes the
world an exciting place.
>> And that means we have got to
keep looking.
All right.
Who is, who is, who is Craig
venter?
>> A very interesting scientist,
who happens to be on the
advisory board our origins
project, and will be here in
April when we have our big fifth
anniversary.
Just a tissue of.
>> He will demand to be on the
show.
>> He's very, very, iconic
classic scientist, but led, as
may remember, when they were
first sequencing the human
genome, the national institute
of health was doing it and
Frances Cohen says, the current
director of the institutes
health was lead that go effort,
and then this Renegade
individual said that I can do it
with my company, and I can
sequence the human genome as
fast, and in fact, Craig venter
did, and since he's proposed a,
a lot of interesting ideas.
Basically, doing synthetic
biology to build new organisms,
which might produce oil, and do
all sorts of things, but and he
does it in a very, very colorful
way.
He took his own sailboat around
the world, to, to look for new
organisms in the oceans which he
found and, and this week, he did
another, one might say media
show, but it's interesting, he
talked about, about basically,
teleporting life, and, but not
in the star trek way.
But, but, he argued that, for
example, on mars, we may have
devices which detect some kind
of life form, which detect that,
and, and event, you could build
something that would sequence
the DNA, if there was DNA of
that life form.
And as we can now sequence
things, that used to cost a
million dollars to sequence it,
now it cost $1,000 and you might
be able to do it in a short
time, and he said he would build
it here on Earth so he would not
have to have rocket ship
carrying it back.
He could transport the
information.
Which is, a very sensible thing,
and they have done that.
When, when their viruses, the
viruses, his team, earlier, last
year, are or the year before
when there was a virus strand
discovered, on the other side of
the Earth, they sequence the DNA
of that strand, and he built it,
and the laboratory built a, a, a
vaccine for that virus.
>> So it's like a biological fax
machine?
>> It is, and I mean, it sounds
good and the point is, it's not
that new, and it's package in a
way to make it sound exciting,
and name, to use, for an
exciting possibility, namely the
discovery of life elsewhere,
but, what it does point out, is
that, is that our ability to, to
both sequence viruses and, and
build them in the laboratory, is
interesting.
One of the things that he did
was, was, basically, build from
scratch, more or less, bimonthly
call bimonthly call, following
the, the sequence of DNA, and
build a Gene, insert it in a, in
a, in a organism where they
knocked out the other genes, and
the new organism grew.
>> Yes.
>> And so, basically, it's like
he created a new form of life,
not quite because he copied it,
but, the, the -- what we're
doing in synthetic biology is,
is amazing, and not what we are,
but he and other people are
doing, and he promotes it in a
very big way.
But, it really means our ability
to -- for example, he talked,
about in the same conference,
where he was talking about mars,
about, about faxing a vaccine at
home, basically, having --
because if we have genetic
sequencers, we could, basically,
send the instructions over the
internet, and have a tabletop
genetic sequencer attached to
the computer, and that could
read the instructions and
produce the DNA, and you could
have your own antibiotic, so you
would not have to go and buy t
may be able to build it, at
home.
>> But that's reality.
Let's get back to the
transporter, the converter.
Can you synthesize an entire
genome?
That seems like heavy stuff.
>> It's not clear you can do it
for a while, but, you know, just
think about what you could not
do -- the computation, it's,
it's -- it's very demanding, and
almost unfathomable, but, I
remember 40 years ago, 30 years
ago when I taught at Yale, I had
the largest hard drive at Yale.
And one gigabyte cost me
$25,000, and now I have, a key
card here that has ten gigabytes
for nothing.
So, I think that it points out
that the possibilities are
amazing, and the idea of, of
DNA, as a software, as well as
hardware, namely that it's just
a genetic code, and if you could
reproduce the code, by, and get
the materials at the same time,
you could build new systems.
It's not quite teleporting, and
it's, it's -- but, it is,
nevertheless fascinating, and in
fact, what we'll do here in
April, I hope, is run a meeting
on redesigning humans.
>> That would be fantastic.
>> So it will be fascinating.
>> We need to get him on the
show.
>> Get rid of the back problems,
just redesign humans without
those problems.
>> I would like to redesign some
humans.
>>> The Kepler space telescopes,
I thought that this thing was
damaged and out there and
limping around.
And --
>> It's an amazing telescope
that has told us, it was
fountain in principle, 3,000
planets, and which is just
amazing because it's telling us
that, in principle, there could
be lots of planets around other
stars, some estimated
30 billion.
Namely Earth-like planets, in
our galaxy, which should mean,
that's obviously important for,
for knowing if we are alone from
the University.
But, unfortunately, it's become
hobble and, and, and --
>> What happened to it?
>> And what happened is that in
order to be able to -- what it
does, stare at lots stars.
Every night, in one region of
the galaxy, and they have to be
in exactly the same Mace because
every night it compares the
image of the next night versus
the first night and, and pixel
by pixel, looking to see if the
light in the star changes a bit,
if a small planet goes in front
of the star, and it's amazing
that it works.
But, in order for it to work, it
has to point incredibly
accurately and has to have the
gyros that keep it pointing in
the same direction.
Two of those have gone kaput.
So it can't continue to point
accurately bus because the
problem is, it gets its power
from solar panels.
And it's an angle to the sun,
and the pressure, the pressure
of, of the lights and the sun
keeps wanting to kick it off,
off its direction, and without
these extra wheels to keep it
there, it cannot look any more
at that region of the sky.
So, you might say darn, we just
throw it out, but it's this
incredible telescope.
It still works so maybe we can
use it for something else.
And the engineers have got a
neat idea, why don't we just
point it with its back to the
sun, so that the solar pressure
is, is displayed even on all the
panels.
And then the sun will,
basically, keep it pointing in
the same direction.
And now, of course, as it goes
around the sun, it will,
therefore, point in different
directions around the galaxy,
and so, it won't be looking at
that region, but it can do other
things.
It can look for, for other kind
planets, in other regions, or it
can look in distant galaxies,
sometimes the field of view will
be in different galaxies.
All it does is look for
variations in light.
So anything that produces
variation this is light will be
interesting.
One of them, for example, could
be new kinds of variable stars,
but also exploding stars in
other galaxies.
Or, planets around stars that it
happens to be pointing at for a
short time.
It has to be very close, so the
orbit would have to be days
rather than months.
>> I was going to say, how long
can it be in that one position?
It cannot be as stable as it
used to be.
>> That's why it can't look for
Earth like planet.
To find the Earth, you would
have to measure it over several
years because it takes years for
it to go around the sun.
What they would like to do is
look for planets that might be
habitable, or at least there can
be liquid water.
If the star is smaller, the
planet could orbit closer and
still be in the habitable zone,
and that orbit might just take
weeks, and they will be able to
move slowly enough that they
might be able to look at a
single region of the sky for a
period of weeks to see a planet
go around the stars.
>> Mentioned supernovas, can see
planets being born, all of this
stuff?
>> Exactly.
They are looking for changes in
life, so the regions of the
galaxy where stars are being
born now, the regions of other
galaxies where they are
exploding, and so they made all
sorts proposals to use this
telescope.
It's up there after all and now,
none of them -- it hasn't been
approved because it will still
take money to run this thing.
But, it would be a shame to take
this telescope that's out there,
and functional, and not say
well, ok, let's use it for a
different purpose.
That's what we do in science all
the time.
We build device and is say, it
turns out for some reason or
another, it does not work for
what we thought it was, but
let's find something out to use
it for, and that's --
>> And this space telescope,
this is really -- we have
learned a lot from this.
>> It told us more than we, in
all of history about the
possibility planets, and told us
more about the likelihood we're
not alone.
I think it's an amazing device,
and we should celebrate it, and
it would be a shame to just turn
it off.
>> All right.
Well, it's good to hear from
you.
I am sorry that we had to start
with a negative story, but it
was --
>> It's not a negative story.
>> We turned it into positive.
>> Not seeing something directs
everything.
The University has to, got to
work on the Michaelson-Worley
experiment that did not see the
Earth moving around the sun when
it was measuring light.
That laid the basis for a
special relativity.
So, not seeing things in science
is sometimes very important.
It's just harder to get Congress
to pay for it and harder to say,
guess, what we did not see
anything, will you give us more
money?
>> Good to see again,
neighboring for joining us.
>> Thanks.
>>> Tonight's focus on Arizona
technology and innovation looks
at a national project to advance
the ability to convert sunlight
into electricity.
The project will be led by a
team of asu engineers.
And leading that team is Stuart
Bowden, who joins us now.
Good to have here.
>> Thank you very much.
>> And this is a national
project, solar cell efficiency,
what are we talking about?
>> Solar cells are great
technology.
You have this Crystal, and you
shine light on it and
electricity comes out.
It does not get simpler than
that, and one of the challenges
and one of the sort of, sort of
our job as a team, and that I'm
leading, is how do we maximize
the amount that we can get out
of that Crystal, so in the past,
the amount of electricity might
have been like curiosity,
something you might have seen in
children's toys, and but now,
it's a real industry.
And so, what is a really
interesting statistic, over the
last 30 years, the cost has come
down by a factor of 100, so it's
sort of unreal that we can put
it out, so in Arizona, in a lot
of places, it's cost effective,
so put it on the roof, and it
will be there for the life of
the system.
That is not true everywhere, so
it's sunny, and what we're
doing, we're going the extra,
the extra bit, which is, which
is taking the cost it takes
down, down by another factor of
two.
>> There increasing the capacity
and the efficiency to capture or
to, to store?
>> It's, it's to capture.
So, what we're doing is we're
increasing the efficiency of
when the sunlight comes in, and
how much comes out.
>> And how much will be stored
because, because it's a cloudy
day for the next week.
>> Right, always a cloudy day
and always a bit after
challenge.
>> Does this mean thinner cells?
Or what's the plan?
>> What we need here is, is we
sort of went back to, to the,
the fundamentals and we've been
making it the same way for the
last, for the last 20 years, and
we use a lot of technology,
which came from the integrated
circuit industry, computer
chips, and that's great, if you
are making chips because you can
make those expensive and, and
make lots of money and, and but,
the whole cost structure is
different, we need to make
things really cheap.
And so, what we need to do,
there is some processes that we
are seeing.
We are going to come up with a
new device design, new device
that will enable us to get
higher efficiency, but without
increasing the cost.
So, it's a, a higher efficiency
device, but, it's simpler to
make.
>> Is it, is it -- is it just a
new design without new
materials, or are the materials
involved?
>> It's, it's -- yes, it's --
what we're doing is, is we're
involving some new materials,
but, but the base technology
that we are using is
crystallized silicons, so the
panels you see, most of those, a
lot of those are made from
Crystal silicon so we're
combining that, really cheap
material, a really well-known
material, it's really stable, so
we are combining that, that with
some newer materials, so, we
sort of figure this is important
because, because we get the
stability, the known, the known
sort potential some of the
existing materials, but combine
that with new materials that
enable us to get the
performance.
>> So you are not reinventing
the wheel but making it more
efficient, more streamlined.
>> So the nice thing about this
is, is, you don't have to
restart everything, go right
back to, to how do you refined
silicon and how do come up with
the industry, it's a big, there
is a big industry for that and,
and what is actually nice about
this, is, is the way that we're
doing these new devices, we sort
of -- most, most semi-conductor
activity at the moment, it's
fabricated by either a diffusion
or a deposition and, and of the
materials and we found that that
was limiting the device
performance, and so with this
design, we're able to, we're
able to, as I said, when you
shine light on a Crystal, you
get the charges, electrons and
holes, and what we want to do is
get those out, and we are able
to pull the electrons out
without any losses.
And, and the jargon is we pull
them out.
>> Well, yeah, and when you are
pulling them out here, are you
pulling them -- is the
advancement, is it, are we
talking big-Time exponential
increase?
>> We don't need exponential
increase in this.
With this project we'll be
taking the systems from 20 to
25%, and you think, well, it's
not going to make much
difference, but, if you look at
the economics of it, if you are
at 15%, you just can't fill
them, so 20% is about, about
ways to stop making money and
25%, about, about making -- big
in-roads, what's, but what's
more interesting is that we know
through, through the similar
device designs, that we can get
up to 86%.
>> So that will be an enabling
technology, so that's kind of
the next project.
>> And indeed, it sounds like
the goal, as you referred to
earlier, making solar more
economically competitive.
And when does it become more
economic competitive?
>> That's a good question.
And, and it depends on who ask.
So, I've been in photovoltaic
since I was an undergraduate,
so, I've been working on it for
a while.
And if you work in this, you get
the question, do you have a TV
on the roof.
It's one of those things, like
most homeowners, have a few
things to deal with, and
plumbing, but, it's, it's just,
just last week, I finally signed
up for the photovoltaic, so, I
figure out the economics were
enough and I could justify it
enough for the family, it's
economics.
So, it's a ten-year payback,
which I was comfortable with,
and maybe a few people are
comfortable with, and what we
want to do is reduce that down,
so that everyone, it's a
no-brainer.
>> And talk quickly about
advancing the integration of
solar into the grid.
Where does that stand now?
What can be improved
technologically?
>> Yeah.
>> Or otherwise?
>> It's going to be, be a
challenge.
The industry is changing, and
any large industry that changes,
it's always going to cause some
disruptions.
The phone industry is probably
an example like to follow.
And they went from having a
fairly centralized fixed system,
and now, you have mobile phones
for everyone.
They are viewed with a
suspicion, you know, there is
the things, but now, they are
ubiquitous, and we can see this
happening with the electricity
grid, they are going from a
centralized system to more of a
cellular system, so the same
reason we call the mobile phone
system a cellular system, we'll
see that with photovoltaic and
will be tied into the smart grid
concept.
>> I feel like we're on the cusp
of advances, and enough to get
you involved to putting them on
the roof.
>> It's enough to get me to put
them on the roof.
My mom got there first.
>> Good for her, and before you
go, mit University in Australia,
Switzerland, and how did ASU get
involved in this?
>> ASU is the lead for this
project.
We started a center at, at ASU,
four years ago, and we built up
enough technology, we got a few
world records, and we have a
pilot line where we have the
students to combine, and make
solar cells and, and we just
went out there and attract the
other partners, and talked to
them, and said ok, what
technologies can you bring to
it, so, each partner brings the
technology, and the University
in Australia gets involved, part
my background and, and yes, so,
by bringing together the
technologies, and we find these
with photovoltaic, it's a
worldwide industry, you need
people to make a contribution.
>> Congratulations.
Good luck on the project.
And congratulations on the new
addition to the house.
>> Thank you very much.
>> Thank you.
>>> Thursday on "Arizona
Horizon," discussion on winter
air quality in Maricopa county,
and as the 50th anniversary of
the Kennedy assassination
approaches, we'll hear about
JFK's Arizona connections.
and 10:00 on the
next "Arizona Horizon."
That is it for now.
I'm Ted Simons.
Thank you very much for joining
us.
You have a great evening.
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And new technology to prevent
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On Nova.
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>> 1959 now, so, beginning of
the 1960s.
Chummy, my character has a baby,
a healthy baby boy, which is
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yummy chummy mummy, and
obviously and I have never told
anyone, who I [Inaudible], what
do you think but there is a
somebody.
Who is, who is my age and, and
it feels like it's from a
different era, and she broke up
her sentences and I thought oh,
I have got to go with that, and
it's for, thing to do, you can,
you can, you can get your
sentences out.
It's sort of very British.
I think it's a strange time,
trying to manage her colleagues
at work and her friends, so
busy, and she sudden,
[Inaudible], which is dynamic
for her because it was her
passion and her life and her
vacation.
So, there's a bit of change for
her, which you will be
witnessing, and we'll, we'll see
what happens.
>> Support for eight comes from
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