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>WELCOME TO TIME FOR HOPE, A FAITH-BASED MENTAL HEALTH
PROGRAM. JOIN CERTIFIED CLINICAL MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELOR AND
CHRISTIAN PSYCHOTHERAPIST, DR. FREDA CREWS, AND HER GUESTS AS
THEY DISCUSS REAL-LIFE ISSUES AND OFFER EXPERT CLINICAL ADVICE
AND SOLID BIBLICAL APPLICATION FOR ANY AND ALL LIFE SITUATIONS.
NOW HERE'S YOUR HOST FOR TIME FOR HOPE, DR. FREDA CREWS.
>WELCOME TO TIME FOR HOPE AND THE SECOND WEEK WITH DR. GARY
OLIVER AS MY GUEST. DR. OLIVER IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE
CENTER FOR RELATIONSHIP ENRICHMENT AND PROFESSOR OF
PSYCHOLOGY AND PRACTICAL THEOLOGY AT JOHN BROWN
UNIVERSITY. HE IS THE AUTHOR OF MORE THAN 20 BOOKS PLUS MANY
PROFESSIONAL ARTICLES AND IS A MEMBER OF THE EXECUTIVE BOARD OF
THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF CHRISTIAN COUNSELORS. GARY HAS
AND IS CONTINUING TO SHARE WITH US HIS STORY OF PERSONALLY
SURVIVING CANCER 7 TIMES, LOSING HIS WIFE TO CANCER, A 23 YEAR
OLD SON IN A HUNTING ACCIDENT. IT IS A STORY OF GOD'S LOVE AND
SUSTAINING GRACE IN THE LIFE OF ONE OF HIS CHILDREN WHO HAS
REMAINED FAITHFUL THROUGH THE PAIN AND SUFFERING GOD HAS
ALLOWED HIM TO PASS THROUGH SO THAT HE CAN MINISTER TO OTHERS
FROM HIS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IN A POWERFUL WAY. AS WE HEAR WHERE
ALL OF THIS HAS BROUGHT DR. OLIVER TO WHERE HE IS TODAY -
STAY WITH US.
>GARY WHEN I STARTED OUT WITH THE FIRST WEEK AND INTRODUCING
YOU I SAID THAT WE WERE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT LESSONS THAT
YOU HAVE LEARNED AT THE DOORSTEP OF DEATH.
>THAT'S RIGHT.
>OKAY SO WE WANT TO IMMEDIATELY GET INTO SOME OF THESE LESSONS
THAT GOD HAS TAUGHT YOU THAT YOU HAVE LEARNED AND SO FORTH. I
WANT TO PREFACE THIS WITH SOME OF MY OWN TEACHINGS AND THINGS
THAT I HAVE SAID AND YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH MY TEACHING ON
SUFFERING AND PAIN AND CALLED IT A THEOLOGY OF PAIN AND
SUFFERING. AT THE TIME THAT I FIRST STARTED THAT WITH THE AACC
PEOPLE HAD NEVER EVEN THOUGHT ALONG THOSE LINES OR IT WAS NEW
AT THAT TIME BUT IT ISN'T NEW ANYMORE. ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE ARE
WRITING ABOUT LIFE AND THAT LIFE IS HARD.
>YES.
>WE WERE LED TO BELIEVE IF YOU BECAME A CHRISTIAN AND I CAN
REMEMBER WHEN I BECAME A CHRISTIAN I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS
GOING TO BE A BED OF ROSES AFTER THAT OKAY.
>IT'S JOY, JOY, JOY, JOY DOWN IN YOUR HEART.
>I LEARNED QUICKLY THAT WAS NOT TRUE AND BACK THEN THERE WAS NO
ONE TELLING ME WHAT TO DO OR HOW TO DO WHEN I LEARNED THAT TRUTH
SO THE LORD TAUGHT ME, THE HOLY SPIRIT TAUGHT ME OUT OF THE WORD
AND THROUGH LIFE EXPERIENCES AND SO FORTH. LIFE IS HARD AND TO
BELIEVE OTHERWISE IS TO BELIEVE A MYTH.
>THAT'S RIGHT.
>THAT THERE ARE LESSONS THAT GOD WANTS US TO LEARN AND HE DEALS
WITH EACH PERSON DIFFERENTLY IN TEACHING THEM THE THINGS THAT HE
WANTS THEM TO KNOW AND USE AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH
THE LESSONS THAT GOD HAS TAUGHT YOU. YOU'RE USING THEM TO TEACH
OTHERS AND HELP OTHERS AND GIVE THEM HOPE WHEN LIFE IS SO HARD.
SO WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE LESSONS.
>WELL AND FREDA TO YOUR POINT I WENT THROUGH A BIBLE COLLEGE,
TWO SEMINARIES AND I NEVER REMEMBER HEARING ABOUT A
THEOLOGY OF LIVING AND DYING OF PAIN OF DIFFICULTY AND YET IT'S
ALL THROUGH SCRIPTURE. WHEN 3/4S OF THE SONGS ARE SONGS OF LAMENT
AND SO AS YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT WHAT 27 YEARS AGO I THINK SINCE
THAT TIME WE UNDERSTAND THAT A THEOLOGY OF LIVING INCLUDES A
THEOLOGY OF DYING BUT THAT LEADS TO LIVING AGAIN AN ETERNAL LIFE.
SO THIS IS GOOD NEWS. IT'S HARD NEWS, IT'S PAINFUL BUT IT'S GOOD
NEWS.
>FROM THE TIME THAT WE COME INTO THE WORLD WE KNOW THAT AS YOU
SAY AT THE END OF YOUR VIDEO ACTUALLY THAT I SAW AND IN
SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE WRITTEN THAT IT'S NOT IF I'M GOING TO
DIE. THE FACT IS WE'RE GOING TO DIE.
>OH YES. IN FACT IT'S NOT IF I'M GOING TO DIE IT'S GOING TO
HAPPEN. IT'S NOT HOW I'M GOING TO DIE I CAN'T CONTROL THAT ONE.
IT'S NOT WHEN I'M GOING TO DIE I CAN'T CONTROL THAT ONE EITHER.
IT'S NOT IF IT'S GOING TO BE HARD OR PAINFUL, IT PROBABLY
WILL BE HARD AND PAINFUL. BUT IT'S HOW CAN CHRIST BE MAGNIFIED
THROUGH MY LIFE. AS PAUL SAID WHERE DO I LIVE OR IF AND WHEN I
DIE. AND WHAT WE'VE FOUND SO FAR IN OUR LIVES BOTH HAVING BURIED
SPOUSES, LONG TERM SPOUSES, LOVED ONES IS THAT GOD IS
PRESENT AND HE'S FAITHFUL. AND SO SOME OF THE LESSONS I'VE
LEARNED WHICH IS WHAT YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE MOVING TO I THINK HAS
HELPED ME AND I KNOW HELPED YOU IN DIFFERENT WAYS NOT TO SURVIVE
HARD TIMES BUT ACTUALLY THRIVE.
>I LOVED IT WHEN I SAW YOU SAY THAT THAT WE'RE NOT TO SPEND OUR
LIFE AS A CHILD OF GOD STRIVING TO MAKE IT, STRIVING TO MAKE IT
THROUGH THIS HARD LIFE. BUT ACTUALLY AND I'VE TAUGHT THAT IN
A DIFFERENT WAY, THRIVING THROUGH IT. IT'S LIKE THE
BUTTERFLY, THE MONARCH BUTTERFLY AND I JUST SAW SOMETHING ABOUT
THAT BUTTERFLY JUST RECENTLY SURFACE BUT I USED IT BECAUSE OF
SOMETHING I READ ABOUT IT. THE MONARCH BUTTERFLY SOMEONE HAD
ONE THAT WAS GOING TO BE HATCHED OR COME OUT OF THE COCOON AND IT
WAS STRUGGLING AND STRUGGLING AND STRUGGLING AND THIS PERSON
THOUGHT THEY'D HELP IT ALONG SO THEY GOT SOME SCISSORS AND
SNIPPED THAT COCOON AND WHEN THAT BUTTERFLY EMERGED IT
COULDN'T FLY. WHY? BECAUSE IT WAS THAT NARROW PASSAGE COMING
OUT OF THE COCOON THAT PUSHED THE FLUID INTO THE WINGS SO THEY
COULD FLY. AND DOESN'T THAT MEASURE UP TO WHAT WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT? THESE NARROW PASSAGES ARE FOR A PURPOSE IN OUR LIFE OR GOD
WOULDN'T ALLOW IT.
>AND GOD IS WITH US IN THE MIDST OF THEM.
>IN THE MIDST OF THEM.
>HERE ARE MY FOUR LESSONS OKAY. NOW THESE ARE SO SIMPLE THAT OUR
VIEWERS MIGHT SAY WELL THAT'S SIMPLE BUT YOU KNOW SOMETIMES
IT'S THE SIMPLE THINGS THAT MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE. THE FIRST
THING GOD TAUGHT ME IS TO CHOOSE TO SET MY MIND ON THINGS ABOVE
BECAUSE FEAR PARALYZES US, FEAR VICTIMIZES US, FEAR CONTROLS US.
AND IF I FOCUS ON MY FEAR THAT BECOMES MY REALITY. SO I DON'T
IGNORE MY FEAR BUT I CHOOSE TO SET MY MIND ON THINGS ABOVE.
EVERYTHING GOD THANK YOU THAT YOU ARE LORD. OKAY NUMBER TWO,
CHOOSE TO COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS AND BE THANKFUL. YOU KNOW WHAT
BEFORE CARRIE GOT CANCER I NEVER THANKED GOD FOR A HEALTHY
PANCREAS AND SHE HAD PANCREATIC CANCER. I NEVER THANKED GOD FOR
MY KIDNEYS, THAT I COULD SEE. BEFORE I LOST 80% OF MY TONGUE
THROUGH CANCER I DIDN'T REALLY THANK GOD FOR MY TONGUE. GOD
THANK YOU FOR MY TONGUE AND FOR MY PANCREAS AND FOR MY BLADDER
YOU KNOW. THAT SOUNDS SILLY. BUT THINK OF ALL WE HAVE TO BE
THANKFUL FOR THAT WE TAKE FOR GRANTED.
>BUT HE TELLS US IN EVERY SITUATION WE'RE TO GIVE THANKS.
IN EVERY SITUATION WE'RE TO GIVE THANKS.
>YES IN THE MIDST OF WHATEVER. IT'S AMAZING AND WE'VE TALKED
ABOUT THIS OVER THE YEARS THAT IN THE MIDST OF DARKNESS AND
DISCOURAGEMENT AND DESPAIR WHEN WE START TO COUNT OUR BLESSINGS
SOMETHING HAPPENS. GOD'S PRESENCE WHICH IS ALWAYS WITH US
THERE'S A POWER THAT INFUSES US AND THAT HELPS US TO REVIEW OUR
PERSPECTIVE. SO NUMBER ONE CHOOSE TO SET YOUR MIND ON
THINGS ABOVE. NUMBER TWO COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS AND NUMBER THREE,
THIS IS SO BASIC, CHOOSE TO CLAIM GOD'S PROMISES. IN LIFE
THERE ARE TWO PERSPECTIVES. I CAN HAVE A PROBLEM FOCUS. I CAN
FOCUS ON HOW TERRIBLE, AWFUL, HORRIBLE, TRAGIC AND NO ONE'S
BEEN WHAT I'VE BEEN THROUGH AND WHO HAS BURIED FOUR LOVED ONES
IN FOUR YEARS AND WHO HAS HAD CANCER SEVEN TIMES AND WHO HAS
BEEN TOLD YOU'LL NEVER SPEAK AGAIN? AND YOU KNOW I CAN FOCUS
ON THE PROBLEM OR I CAN ACKNOWLEDGE THE PROBLEM BUT
CHOOSE TO HAVE A PROMISE FOCUS. YES ALL THIS IS GOING ON. YES I
TALK FUNNY. THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE WATCHING KNOW THAT I TALK A BIT
DIFFERENT BUT THE PROMISE IS THAT WE ARE MORE THAN
CONQUERORS. THE PROMISE IS THAT MY GOD WILL SUPPLY ALL YOUR
NEEDS. THE PROMISE IS THAT HE'LL NEVER LEAVE US OR FORSAKE US.
THE PROMISE IS THAT HE'LL DO EXCEEDINGLY, ABUNDANTLY BEYOND
ALL WE ASK OR THINK. SO THOSE PROMISES FREDA ARE AMAZING AND
I'VE MEMORIZED THEM BUT SOMETIMES IN THE HARD TIMES WE
FORGET THEM.
>YES BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE OUR LIFE. I CAN REMEMBER IT'S PETER
THAT SAYS THAT THESE GREAT AND PRECIOUS PROMISES ARE GIVEN TO
US THAT WE MIGHT BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE LIFE. OH I LOVE THAT
PASSAGE.
>ISN'T THAT AMAZING?
>AND THAT SAME PASSAGE IS JUST WITHIN TWO VERSES I BELIEVE SAYS
THAT WE HAVE EVERY RESOURCE WE NEED FROM CHRIST TO LIVE THE
CHRISTIAN LIFE NO MATTER WHETHER IT'S IN PAIN OR WHETHER WE'RE
EXPERIENCING GREAT BLESSINGS OR WHATEVER THAT WE HAVE FOR LIFE
AND GODLINESS THAT WE HAVE THE RESOURCES.
>AND SATAN DOES NOT WANT US TO NOTICE THAT. HE WANTS US SO
FOCUSED ON OUR FEARS AND OUR PROBLEMS. HE WANTS THAT PROBLEM
FOCUS NOT THE PROMISE FOCUS. NUMBER FOUR CHOOSE TO OBEY AND
ACT ON WHAT YOU KNOW TO BE TRUE. IF GOD SAYS IT THEN I DON'T WAIT
UNTIL I FEEL LIKE PRAISING HIM. I DON'T WAIT UNTIL I FEEL
BETTER. YOU KNOW WHAT WHEN I WAS FIRST ASKED TO SPEAK AFTER MY
SURGERY AND I SOUNDED LIKE ELMER FUDD. I SOUNDED WORSE THAN I DO
NOW, I DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO
EMBARRASS MYSELF AND OTHERS. BUT GOD SAID GARY IF I CAN SPEAK
THROUGH BALAAM'S DONKEY.
>I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO USE HIM.
>I CAN SPEAK THROUGH YOU. AND OUR JOB IS TO STAND UP AND BE
FAITHFUL. AND NO MATTER WHAT OUR VIEWERS, NO MATTER WHAT YOU OR I
ARE GOING THROUGH WE CAN SET OUR MIND ON THINGS ABOVE, WE CAN
COUNT OUR BLESSINGS, WE CAN CLAIM GOD'S PROMISES AND WE CAN
STEP INTO IT. AND ONE OF THE LAST LESSONS IS IN SECOND
CORINTHIANS 12 WHERE PAUL TALKS ABOUT SOWING THE FLESH AND THEN
HE SAYS YOU KNOW I'VE LEARNED TO IN ALL THINGS GIVE THANKS FOR
POWER IS PERFECTED IN WEAKNESS. AND SOMEHOW WHEN WE'RE WEAK GOD
SHOWS UP IN SOME MIGHTY WAYS. WHEN I AM WEAK THEN I'M STRONG.
AND SO PAUL SAYS I'LL BRAG ABOUT MY WEAKNESSES SO WHILE I'M WEAK
PEOPLE CAN SEE THAT GOD IS FAITHFUL, GOD IS SOVEREIGN, GOD
IS TRUSTWORTHY.
>YES. YOU KNOW THEY BELIEVE THAT THE THORN IN PAUL'S FLESH WAS
STUTTERING. THAT HE WAS A STUTTERER AS IT WERE. WELL THEN
YOU MIGHT CAN IDENTIFY WITH PAUL IF THAT'S TRUE. OF COURSE WE
REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT THORN IN THE FLESH WAS DO WE?
>NO.
>BUT IT HAS BEEN THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.
>BUT WE KNOW THAT PAUL HAD MAJOR DISCOURAGEMENTS.
>YES HAD MAJOR DISCOURAGEMENTS AND THEN HAD TO GO TO JAIL AND
SIT IN PRISON. BUT WHAT WOULD WE DO WITHOUT ALL HIS LETTERS THAT
WERE WRITTEN FROM PRISON?
>AMEN.
>YES SO IT'S JUST WONDERFUL WHEN YOU THINK OF HOW GOD WORKS AND
WHAT HE USES AND HOW HE GOES ABOUT. AS IF IT'S NOT A NEW PLAN
WITH HIM. I MEAN IT'S BEEN THERE FOR ETERNITY AND SO FORTH. BUT
THEY'RE TELLING ME IT'S TIME FOR A BREAK GARY AND WE WILL BE
RIGHT BACK.
>TWO PEOPLE CAN SUFFER FROM THE SAME ILLNESS, DISEASE OR
IMPAIRMENT AND SIMILAR AMOUNTS OF PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL PAIN
AND DISTRESS AND YET RESPOND VERY DIFFERENTLY. WHILE ONE
CHOOSES TO CONTINUE FINDING MEANING IN LIFE, THE OTHER
MERELY EXISTS DAY AFTER DAY. WHAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE? IT'S
ALL IN ONE'S ATTITUDE. WE CAN VIEW OURSELVES AS A VICTIM OF
OUR CIRCUMSTANCES, OR WE CAN CHOOSE A POSITIVE ATTITUDE -
EVEN VIEWING OUR ILLNESS, DISEASE OR IMPAIRMENT AS AN
OPPORTUNITY FOR PERSONAL AND SPIRITUAL GROWTH. A POSITIVE
ATTITUDE ALONE CANNOT CURE AN ILLNESS, DISEASE OR REPAIR AN
IMPAIRMENT, BUT IT CAN DETERMINE THE QUALITY OF LIFE WE
EXPERIENCE AS WE STRUGGLE WITH WHAT LIFE DEALS US. TO WIN OVER
A DEBILITATING ILLNESS SUCH AS CANCER WE MUST RESIST IT, TREAT
IT, AND EMBRACE IT ALL AT THE SAME TIME. NOW, YOU ARE PROBABLY
THINKING, DR. FREDA HAS LOST ME THIS TIME. AND AT FIRST THE IDEA
OF RESISTING AND EMBRACING AN ILLNESS, DISEASE OR IMPAIRMENT
DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. AN ILLNESS, DISEASE OR IMPAIRMENT CAN MAKE A
PERSON BITTER OR BETTER, AND WE CHOOSE WHICH IT WILL BE. OUR
ILLNESS DOESN'T MAKE THAT CHOICE FOR US, IF WE PASSIVELY ALLOW
ADVERSITY TO HAVE ITS WAY, WE WILL BECOME BITTER. SO, WE MUST
MAKE SURE THAT WE RESIST ITS POWER TO DO THAT TO US. AT THE
SAME TIME IF WE ACCEPT THE REALITY OF WHAT LIFE HAS DEALT
US AND GO WITH THE FLOW BY EDUCATING OURSELVES REGARDING
IT, DETERMINING WHAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE THE BEST OF OUR
SITUATION, AND ARE WILLING TO DO IT, WE WILL BECOME A BETTER
PERSON IN THE PROCESS. WHAT WE BELIEVE ABOUT PAIN AND ADVERSITY
SHAPES OUR ATTITUDE. THE BELIEF THAT SUFFERING IS WITHIN THE
PURPOSE OF THE CREATOR GOD FOR US (ROMANS 8: 28: HOLY BIBLE)
WILL TAKE OUR FOCUS OFF OURSELVES AND PUT US ON A SEARCH
FOR THE PLANS GOD HAS FOR US IN ALLOWING IT. IF YOU ARE A
BELIEVER, THIS INCLUDES GOD'S PLANS TO "PROSPER YOU AND NOT TO
HARM YOU, PLANS TO GIVE YOU A HOPE AND A FUTURE.'" (JER 29:11)
>IT'S ALWAYS GREAT HAVING YOU JOIN US ON TIME FOR HOPE. OUR
GUEST FOR TODAY IS DR. GARY OLIVER AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
LESSONS THAT HE HAS LEARNED WHILE GOING THROUGH CANCER SEVEN
TIMES. AND GARY YOU SAID IN SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE READ
AFTER THAT YOU HAVE GAINED NEW EYES AND NEW EARS AND A NEW
HEART AS A RESULT OF YOUR CANCER AND YOUR OTHER LOSSES THAT WE'VE
TALKED ABOUT. WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
>WELL IT'S AMAZING THAT PAIN AND LOSS SO OFTEN WE WANT TO JUST
GET THROUGH IT AND GET IT BEHIND US AND THAT MAKES SENSE BUT GOD
ALLOWS PROBLEMS INTO OUR LIVES NOT JUST SO THAT WE CAN GET
THROUGH IT BUT SO WE CAN GROW THROUGH IT. I CAN GET THROUGH IT
AND NOT LEARN ANYTHING OR I CAN GROW THROUGH IT. AND WHAT I'VE
FOUND FREDA IN MY EXPERIENCES WHICH I HAVEN'T WANTED, I DIDN'T
WANT STILL AFFECT ME IS THAT I SEE PEOPLE NOW IN DIFFERENT
WAYS. I SEE SITUATIONS; I HEAR CONVERSATIONS WITH DIFFERENT
EARS. I HAVE AN EMPATHY, A DEEPER COMPASSION THAN I EVER
HAD BEFORE. AND WE TALKED DURING THE BREAK THAT THE PROBLEMS OF
LIFE CAN MAKE US BITTER AND THAT'S WHAT SATAN WANTS. FOCUS
ON THE PROBLEMS, FOCUS ON THE LOSSES, IT'S NOT FAIR, IT'S NOT
RIGHT, OTHERS HAVE THINGS BETTER, WHY SHOULD THIS HAPPEN
TO YOU? OR NOT IGNORE THE PROBLEM BUT FOCUS ON THE
PROMISES AND GOD'S PRESENCE AND THAT HE IS FAITHFUL AND COUNT
OUR BLESSINGS. AND AS WE DO THAT ARE PROBLEMS TO REFINE US AND
MAKE US BETTER. SO I THINK I'VE GROWN EMOTIONALLY OKAY, I'M MORE
RESILIENT, I KNOW HOW TO HANDLE DEPTHS OF PAIN AND LOSS. I MEAN
I'VE BEEN AND YOU HAVE TOO WHERE IT WAS SO DARK, WHERE I COULDN'T
CRY ANYMORE TEARS. MY TEAR DUCTS WERE EMPTY AND YET I WAS STILL
SOBBING. BUT EMOTIONALLY I'M MORE RESILIENT, I'VE GROWN BY
GOD'S GRACE RELATIONALLY, I'VE LEARNED THE VALUE OF FRIENDSHIP,
I BETTER UNDERSTAND PRAYER AND I'VE GROWN SPIRITUALLY. WHAT I
DISCOVERED FREDA IS THAT AS CHRISTIANS IN THE WORLD WITHOUT
CHRIST YOU CAN HAVE SORROW OR JOY, YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH. BUT
FOR THOSE OF US WHO KNOW CHRIST WE CAN HAVE DEPTHS OF SORROW AND
LONELINESS AND DESPAIR AND RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT HAVE
SOVEREIGN JOY. THE FACT THAT I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS AND TO HEAR
CHRIST SAY I KNOW YOU'RE HURTING BUT TRUST ME I LOVE YOU, I'M
ENOUGH, I'LL NEVER LEAVE YOU OR FORSAKE YOU. AND WHILE WE'RE
ACHING AND WHILE WE'RE ALONE THERE'S A PEACE THAT YOU CAN'T
PUT WORDS TO AND YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
>YES AND YOU KNOW THERE ARE SCRIPTURES THAT SAY WE ARE TO
REJOICE WHEN WE'RE GOING THROUGH THESE HARD TIMES. AND YOU KNOW
WHAT I SAY ABOUT PAUL? SPEAK FOR YOURSELF. (LAUGHTER).
>YES THAT'S EASY FOR HIM TO SAY.
>YES IT'S EASY FOR HIM TO SAY REJOICE WHEN YOU'RE GOING
THROUGH IT. BUT YOU KNOW IN ROMANS HE TEACHES THREE THINGS
THAT ARE TO COME OUT OF OUR PAIN AND SUFFERING. PERSEVERANCE,
CHARACTER WHICH I CALL CHARACTEROLOGICAL CHANGES.
THAT'S CONFORMING US INTO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST AND HOPE. GARY
WHAT WOULD WE DO DURING THESE DARK TIMES WITHOUT HOPE?
>WELL AND THE AMAZING THING IS THAT AND AGAIN I KNOW THIS IS
WHERE YOU'RE AT, TODAY I'VE HAD PEOPLE SAY YOU KNOW DR. OLIVER
AFTER ALL YOU'VE GONE THROUGH DO YOU STILL FEEL THAT GOD'S A GOOD
GOD? IS YOUR FAITH STRONGER? I HAVE TODAY MORE AWARENESS FOR
GOD'S GOODNESS, GOD'S GRACE, HIS MERCY, HIS FAITHFULNESS, HIS
LOVING KINDNESS. I HAVE MORE AWARENESS OF GOD'S PROMISES AND
POWER THAN I EVER HAD BEFORE. AND THERE'S A SWEETNESS THAT
COMES IN YOUR WALK WITH THE LORD AS YOU'VE MOVED THROUGH PAIN AND
LOSS.
>WHEN WE LOOK BACK AT CHURCH HISTORY GARY ALL OF THE GREAT
HAD TO SUFFER. I MEAN LIKE JOHN BUNYAN HAD THAT AWFUL OCD THAT
HE HAD TO DEAL WITH. SPURGEON HAD TO DEAL WITH DEPRESSION.
MARTIN LUTHER HAD TO DEAL WITH DEPRESSION AND MANY PEOPLE DON'T
KNOW THIS ABOUT THESE GREATS AS WE REFER TO THEM IN THE CHURCH
THAT THEY PASSED THROUGH LIKE YOU HAVE THESE DARK PASSAGES AND
IT MADE THEM INTO THE GREATS THAT WE KNOW THEM TO BE. SO GOD
WAS DOING HIS WORK IN THEM. HE TAUGHT JOB A NEW TRUTH.
>YES.
>THROUGH HIS SUFFERING AND PAIN.
>AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN GOD WAS FAITHFUL, GOD WAS
FAITHFUL, GOD WAS FAITHFUL.
>NEVER LET THEM DOWN DID HE?
>NO AND THAT'S OUR EXPERIENCE.
>YES NEVER LET THEM DOWN AND HE'S NEVER LET ME DOWN AND HE'S
NEVER LET YOU DOWN. HE WILL NEVER LET US DOWN. HE SAYS HE
WON'T AND SO WE'RE GOING TO TRUST HIM AND THOSE SOVEREIGN
PROMISES.
>THAT'S RIGHT.
>AND GARY WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IS I'M GOING TO SHARE SOME
THINGS WITH MY VIEWERS AND TAKE THE SHOW OUT BUT WE WILL BE
SHOWING PART OF THAT VIDEO THAT I WATCHED LAST EVENING FOR OUR
VIEWERS. AND ALSO THEY CAN GET A COPY OF THAT. I'VE TALKED WITH
YOU ABOUT IT AND WE'RE ABLE TO SAY YOU KNOW IF YOU LIKE WHAT
YOU SEE, THIS PORTION OF IT, YOU CAN GET A COPY OF THE WHOLE
VIDEO AND IT'S YOUR STORY AT A CONFERENCE WHERE YOU WERE
PRESENTING. THANKS AGAIN FOR BEING ON TIME FOR HOPE GARY. AND
THEN I HAVE TO SHARE WITH YOU A PRAYER REQUEST.
>AND I KNOW WHAT THAT FEELS LIKE AND GARY KNOWS WHAT THAT FEELS
LIKE AND HIS FAMILY THE TWO THAT ARE LEFT KNOWS WHAT THAT
EXHAUSTION FEELS LIKE, AND HIS PRESENT WIFE WOULD KNOW WHAT
THAT EXHAUSTION FEELS LIKE. SO WE CAN SHARE THAT WITH YOU. WE
HAVE TAKEN THIS PRAYER REQUEST TO OUR HEAVENLY FATHER. WE WILL
TAKE YOUR PRAYER REQUEST TO OUR HEAVENLY FATHER WHO SAYS HE
HEARS OUR PRAYERS WHEN WE PRAY IF YOU WILL SEND THEM OR CALL
THEM IN TO US. AND THEN I HAVE A NOTE OF ENCOURAGEMENT.
>NO GOD HAS DONE GREAT THINGS USING ME AS HIS INSTRUMENT.
THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND I APPRECIATE YOUR ADDING THAT. ONE
OF THE GREAT THINGS YOU CAN DO FOR ME IS PRAY FOR ME AND THIS
MINISTRY. I HAVE A GREAT STAFF BEHIND ME THAT HELPS PRODUCE
THIS SHOW AND WONDERFUL GUESTS SUCH AS DR. OLIVER COME IN AND
MAKE THIS SHOW WHAT IT IS BUT WE PRAISE GOD FOR IT. AND WE WOULD
ASK THAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER HELPING US WITH IT FINANCIALLY.
THAT'S BETWEEN YOU AND THE LORD AND I'LL LEAVE IT BETWEEN YOU
AND THE LORD. BUT I DO ASK THAT YOU ASK THE LORD ABOUT IT AND
PRAY ABOUT IT.
>PEOPLE WILL COME TO KNOW THE JOY OF GOD, DO NOT DENY THE
DARKNESS. THIS IS NOT ABOUT DENIAL. WE'RE NOT GOING TO LA LA
LAND AND SAY EVERYTHING'S FINE OKAY. IT'S ACKNOWLEDGING THE
REALITY OF WHEREVER WE'RE AT AND EMBRACING AND FACING OUR LOSSES
SOMETIMES WITH COURAGE, SOMETIMES BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE
ANY OTHER CHOICE. THEY CLAIM THAT THE LIGHT THAT SHINES IN
THE DARKNESS CAN BE TRUSTED MORE THAN THE DARKNESS ITSELF AND
THAT A LITTLE BIT OF LIGHT CAN DISPEL A LOT OF DARKNESS. THEY
POINT THESE FLASHES OF LIGHT HERE AND THERE AND REMIND EACH
OTHER THAT THEY REVEAL THE HIDDEN BUT VERY REAL PRESENCE OF
GOD. THERE ARE OTHERS WHO HAVE SUFFERED MUCH MORE THAN I HAVE.
THERE ARE OTHERS WHO HAVE HAD MORE LOSSES THAN I HAVE BUT I
DON'T KNOW MANY. AND AS I SAID THIS HAS BEEN KIND OF A LONG
WINTER SEASON. I'VE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT JOY. I LEARNED THAT IN
OUR WORLD JOY AND SORROW ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. YOU CAN'T
HAVE SORROW AND HAVE JOY AT THE SAME TIME OKAY. BUT I ALSO
LEARNED THAT IN GOD'S WORLD JOY AND SORROW DON'T EXCLUDE EACH
OTHER BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES WHEN I'VE BEEN SO AWARE OF
MY LOSSES AND FIGHTING FEAR, DEALING WITH DISCOURAGEMENT,
FIGHTING DEPRESSION, HAVING MUCH SORROW AND AT THE SAME TIME
BEING AWARE OF THAT SOVEREIGN JOY, EXPERIENCING PLEASURE AND
BEING AWARE OF GOD'S PRESENCE IN POWERFUL, MIGHTY ALMOST TANGIBLE
WAYS. SOVEREIGN JOY DOESN'T DESTROY OR ELIMINATE PAIN AND
SORROW. WE CAN BE SAD, WE CAN GRIEVE, WE CAN MOURN, WE CAN
HAVE PAIN BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO DETERMINE OUR REALITY AND THAT'S
A BIG DEAL.