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From The Out of Step Tool, it's TOOST Radio with a fresh perspective for people with disabilities.
TOOST radio is produced in kind by Entercom Radio Portland with special thanks to sound
engineer, Gary Bloxom. Our deep gratitude to you for this generous
donation making it possible to explore new opportunities, inspiring guests, helpful resources
and more. Now, your host Jerry Pattee.
Step into my life with TOOST members who invite you to learn about disability from the inside
out. Jerry: I introduce guest, Michael Weland,
member of The Out of Step Tool and publisher of News Bonners Ferry.
Welcome, Mike. Mike: Thanks for having me, Jerry.
Jerry: Could you share a little bit about your disability and how you acquired it?
Mike: Well, I had been out working all day, piling brush in April 2011 and came in to
watch the news and get some iced tea and got all settled in and reached over for my iced
tea and my left arm wouldn't work. I tried to get up and found out my left leg
wouldn't either. I went to the hospital and found out I had
a stroke. Jerry: Must have been very surprising.
Mike: Yeah, quite a wake up call! Jerry: Can you tell us about the work that
you do? Mike: Well, I've been in journalism probably
for about 30 years. About 4 years ago, it was 2010, 3 years ago,
I started an online newsbf.com and basically I was working for the county at the time,
but I didn't feel like the local news was getting covered enough so I launched the website
trying to bring back local news. After the stroke, I was down for about 3 weeks
in the hospital and when I got back, I decided I was going to keep it going.
I've been updating it one handed ever since. Jerry: That takes a lot of typing one handed.
I'm very familiar with that technique! Mike: Not as quick to learn.
Jerry: It is. With the electronic age now, so it's not a
published paper, it's an electronic version, is that right?
Mike: Yes, it is solely online. Jerry: That's great that we have the electronic
age especially for people with disabilities. Do you all your work from home then?
Mike: Yes. I sit here in my pajamas and type away.
Jerry: So, how is your disability, do you think, affected the way that you either produce
your paper, I know you've talked about one handed, but does it also affect the journalism?
Mike: It hasn't really affected the journalism, the reporting side of it.
I can't go out and cover the stories like I used to...covering wrecks and accidents
and things like that. But, I've found with the online media, when
there's a serious incident around, a lot of people have cell phones now and people tend
to send me in the pictures and information on what's going on.
So, even though I can't get out and do the coverage myself, I'm finding that I can get
a lot of information just from help from people. Jerry: So that really brings the community
together, I would imagine if they know you're the man in the know and you're the person
to contact. Mike: In addition to the website, I have a
Facebook page and email. So whenever there is something that breaks
like that, I put out notices through Facebook and on email so people with cell phones can
be alerted wherever they are right when it happens.
So, if there is a wreck in the county and traffic is tied up, I can let people know
before they get there so they'll be on the lookout for it.
Jerry: Very handy. And how frequently do you distribute?
Mike: I'm updating pretty much constantly. I occasionally take a day off to rest, but
usually I'm at it 7 days a week. Jerry: So a person could just log on daily
and check out the news? Mike: There's always something new.
Jerry: And I understand that you have a new goal in mind.
You're going to be moving? Mike: Well, my daughter up in Talkeetna Alaska
gave us a granddaughter last April. Now that I'm retired from work because of
my disability, my wife, Debbie, didn't see any reason why we can't just pack up and go
up there and spend some time with her. So we're going to be moving to Talkeetna,
Alaska. I'm already getting ready for it by launching
a new website on Thanksgiving day called newsmatsu.com So, I listen to the scanner online down here
and I'm pretty much able to keep the news covered up there as well.
Jerry: So, will you be covering news in 2 locations?
Mike: That's to be decided yet. I'm working on trying to sell newsbf, but
if it doesn't happen, then yes, I'll be covering both locations when we are up in Alaska just
like I am now. Jerry: Right, because remote is remote.
Whether you are in the same town or in a different state.
Mike: Yep, you can listen to the scanner traffic right online.
I've got two scanners going so. Jerry: It keeps you very busy!
So, do you have an inside story that you might tell that might be related to either your
disability or to the work that you do that might be surprising to our listeners?
Mike: I don't know if anything would be surprising, I think it's just perseverance.
The first couple days after the stroke, I was in complete shock and didn't know what
I'd do because I was strapped down in bed. The left side of me wouldn't work at all.
I didn't know whether I'd be able to continue with my job with the county, I was a zoning
administrator in Bonner County, Idaho for a little over 12 years.
After I got out of the hospital, I found out I didn't have the stamina anymore, going into
the office every day and sit all day in an office and do the routine things I had to
do everyday. So, I was forced to retire from that.
But, keeping the news online in my own time and been able to have something to do has
probably kept me from being stir crazy. Jerry: Certainly.
Do you have sponsors for your site? Mike: We sell local ads, but mostly it's a
labour of love. I don't make a lot of money off of it.
I do have some very dedicated advertisers and it pays the bills.
Jerry: Have you considered if this sort of model that you have come up with might be
something that other people with disabilities who are limited, they work from home, even
people without disabilities might be able to duplicate?
Mike: Any journalistic experience in journalism or aspiration I think, if you've got the use
of one hand, you can do it! The news is out there, the web is a ideal
source of news. Back in the old days, in the 70s, you couldn't
get news except by fax or mailed in press release or by going out and getting it yourself.
Now, it just flows right into you, so basically I'm just a collection point.
Jerry: Do you have suggestions for how to network with people?
It sounds like you've built up quite a following. Does it start with family and friends?
MIke: Well, I was fortunate that I had the media contacts from all the years working
here in Bonner County. So, I just continued on that and built it
up even more by going online and getting senators, governors and all that kind of news that I
can pass along. But, basically, your local government agencies
usually have a place for press releases. Clubs and organizations are always putting
pieces so as you get out there and just start digging for it, you can certainly find plenty
of news. Jerry: And after a certain point, do you find
people are coming to you, they want to be advertisers?
Mike: Yes. I don't go out and sell myself. The advertisers I have, all approached me
and asked to advertise on the site. Compared to our local papers,I think the Bonners
Ferry Herald might have a circulation of 3,000 and I'm getting 18,000 hits a day!
Jerry: That's remarkable! MIke: And they come from all over the world,
so it's pretty amazing the reach it has. Jerry: Great, well I'd really like to thank
you for being on the show. Are there any comments that you'd like to
tell our listeners? Words of encouragement? Mike: If anybody has an idea, that this is
something you want to do, feel free to visit my site.
There's a link where you can contact me by email or by phone and I'd be happy to talk
to anybody who would like to do something like this.
I think it's the future as far as local media goes.
Jerry: Well thanks, Mike Weland for joining up today, member of The Out of Step Tool and
publisher of News Bonners Ferry. Be sure to check out MIke's profile on outofstep.com,
keyword News Bonners Ferry. The Out of Step Tool in an online marketplace
and platform for people with disabilities to sell products and offer services.
Go to outofstep.com and create your profile today.
Step up your knowledge with TOOST Radio as we tackle the tough questions about disabilities.
Jerry: The effectiveness of simulating the disability experience for people without disabilities
has long been a topic of debate. Yet these kinds of activities are quite common.
Simulation experiences include activities such as serving food while wearing a blindfold,
playing basketball in a wheelchair, speaking with a mouth filled with grapes or listening
with cotton in the ears. Participants report a wide range of thoughts
and feelings from these activities. Some feel empathy or respect, others think
activity participants miss the point. Are disability simulation activities effective?
Our survey shows 59% of respondents say yes and 41% say no.
To quote a post on a social media site,"I really dislike disability simulation exercises.
I'm not sure if I've ever done one, but I participated in several debriefs after the
exercise. Usually the participants are feeling overwhelmed at the obstacles and describe
people with disabilities as heroic or pitiful." Form your own opinion as you listen to what
today's guests have to say. Our first guest is JW Smith, associate professor
with The School of Communication Studies at Ohio University.
Welcome JW. JW: Thank you! How are you?
Jerry: Just fine, thanks. Could you share a bit about your disability
and your thoughts on simulation activities? JW: Born totally blind, well almost totally
blind. I could only see out of one eye when I was
born due to glaucoma. I had an accident at 3 and lost the use of
my so called good eye. But I don't remember being able to see anything
in those first 3 years, so basically blind since birth.
Born and raised in Chicago, Illinois. I went through public schools and I mention
that because I think it's probably a part of why I tend to lean toward, if done right,
effective simulations. So, it wasn't until I became a professor that
I even considered talking about or engaging in any of these activities.
Strangely enough, coming through public schools and even through college, I was never a part
of any such activities. Either in terms of overseeing them or participating
int them, so I find that interesting as I think about this.
Jerry: And what kind of activites do you do typically?
JW: I have done everything from the typical sort of sleep shade activity, driving around
town, doing basic daily tasks while using the sleep shades.
In my class, we deal with what I call the big 3, that is, blindness and visual impairment,
hearing impairment and deafness and mobility impairments.
So, the students have an opportunity to pick one of those to try to simulate.
These had been done over some time, so you've got a sense of the blindness or visual impairment
and the hearing impairment are often using ear plugs and sometimes even additional covering
and require them not to be able to speak as well for that period of time using their voices.
And then of course mobility impairments are arranged from wheelchairs to other modified
activities. Jerry: What would you say are the general
responses from students? JW: It's been my experience, for the most
part, that they tend to be fairly favorable. I chalked it up to hopefully the way that
I implement them and the things that I do to try and guide them throughout the experience.
I don't want to just put all these sleep shades and tell me what it was like.
I want to put a lot more activity, a lot of emphasis on it, a lot more energy into it
than that. Jerry: Well, now let's meet Dr. Susan Stuntzer.
She's an Out of Step member and the author of a book, "Living With A Disability: Finding
Peace Amidst The Storm". Welcome.
Susan: Thank you. Jerry: Susan, could you share a little about
your disability and your experience with simulation activities?
Susan: Sure, my situation is that I was 19 when I acquired this form of cord injury.
I broke my back at T-12 L-1 and on the other side of the rehabilitation process, I walk
with below the knee, ankle, foot orthotics. With disability simulation, most of my experience
was actually when I was an elementary teacher. My first profession was teaching elementary
school and so I had an opportunity to integrate a few exercises into the classroom and taught
a module at that time, in the mid 90s, called welcome to my world.
And so students had an opportunity to try out what it might be like to be in a wheelchair,
to not be able to see and then there was a hearing impairment one.
I think there were 4 total. In my present occupation, I haven't done it
so much, but I have had on a little different note, I do have my students in one of their
rehabilitation classes go to various businesses or public places within the community to see
how accessible it is and to report on their findings, to get an idea of how easy or inconvenient
this would be for someone with a disability. Just to give them an idea of some of the issues
and concerns and barriers that they sometimes encounter throughout the environment that
are often overlooked. Jerry: So, in your experience can you kind
of compare the reactions between elementary students children versus adults?
Susan: I think with children, at a younger age, they are very curious.
These are questions and experiences that they talked and haven't thought about it, so it's
more curiosity and as has already been mentioned, it was a favorable experience.
As students reach graduate school and adults, it gets more, it's also favorable but in a
way much more eye opening. Sometimes people are very surprised at what
they find because things may happen such as employees or personnel and some of the businesses
will approach them and want to know what they are doing.
So then people are kind of faced with those uncomfortable situations of how to educate
and explain what they are doing, but yet not offend somebody.
I think for adults, it's often very eye opening in what they find.
Jerry: Let me ask both of you two, I'll start with you JW, are there aspects of a life with
a disability that a person might not learn from simulation?
JW: Absolutely, sure. I mean as much of a real life experience as
I try to give them, there is just no way that they'll ever really get to know what it's
really like and I think that's because no matter what I do, I know and they know down
deep inside that they can take those sleep shades off anytime.
Or they can take those ear plugs out anytime. I think that's one real glaring and obvious
issue that can't be addressed. I don't know if anyone can really prepare
you for that. Jerry: And Susan, your thoughts? Are there
things that simulation just can't teach? Susan: The main point that I would comment
on would be just social interactions and experiences that take place.
JW: Yeah. Susan: You can maybe give an idea for a brief
moment in time what it's like physically or from a sensory perspective, but again its
time limited and it doesn't really give you the exposure of situations that come up that
might be repeated. Or it's not really enough time to help people
really understand what it's like when someone approaches you and maybe crosses a personal
boundary or asks something that you're not comfortable answering.
Jerry: So, it's those internal, those personal reactions that people have.
Susan: Right, that I think simulation is harder to capture.
Jerry: Alright, well I'd like to now introduce Jonathan Whiting.
He's the Director of Training and Evaluation at WebAim.
Welcome, Jonathan. Jonathan: Thank you, Jerry.
Just to introduce WebAIM a little bit, first off I want to mention that I do not have a
disability. So, my perspective is definitely not as rich
in that way. WebAIM is a web accessible training and consulting
group, a non-profit consulting group. Our focus is kind of as our name, WebAim,
suggests, web accessibility. So, that's the lens that I view things through
is how individuals with disabilities interact with web content and what developers and content
creators and others can do to make their content more rich and more accessible for users with
disabilities. I think one of the reasons that we were invited
to participate in this webcast is because we do have a few simulations that we host
on our own website for things like screen reader simulation and simulation for users
who maybe are dyslexic. We actually raised a tiny bit of controversy
a couple months ago. We updated our website, a very significant
update and as part of that we said did you know most of these simulations we have are
a decade old? We used shockwave and who uses shockwave anymore?
And we thought maybe we should just pull the plug on some of these simulations.
And there was quite a bit of pushback from our followers and people who use our site
and our resources. Probably, I would say that we had more complaints
just about removing the simulations than all other feedback and complaints and issues with
all of the other significant changes we made to our site.
So we decided to reintroduce them and so I don't know in terms of simulations, I think
some of the simulations that I use in training and in some of those things are a bit different
than some of the other simulations that other participants are speaking about because I
really think the purpose of the simulations we choose to use are to help developers especially
understand how the content is perceived or how users interact with content, those kinds
of things. So, while we don't necessarily use of the
more traditional simulations, like blindfolds or some of the lenses or goggles or those
kinds of things to help, they definitely are activities that we include in some trainings,
in most of our trainings. Things like navigating with the keyboard or
using a certain browser, add-ons or plug ins or those kinds of things to help simulate
some of the experiences of users with disabilities. On that way, we do use them.
I would say though that if we have a choice between taking an hour and using some simulations
or taking an hour and providing question answer with a user with a disability, having someone
in the room who can answer questions and demonstrate how they interact, we usually do choose the
latter. We think that's probably a more rich experience
for the majority of our attendees. Jerry: Could you give us an example of what
one of your simulations might look like? I imagine myself, I'm sitting at a computer,
I'm looking at the screen, I have a keyboard? Jonathon: Sure, there's a handful of simulations
that we have. The one, the screen reader simulation we have,
and that's one of our more popular simulations. Again though, it's quite dated.
Basically, it's just a simplified way for a user to learn some of the more basic screen
reader controls in a more safe, controlled environment.
In part, the reason that we developed that simulation so many years ago is because at
the time really there weren't any or very many good free screen readers out there.
And so most users to really experience a screen reader would have to either pay quite a bit
of money or download a demo that maybe they shouldn't be using for those purposes to experience
that. Screen readers have come a long way.
That is one simulation we have where you can download a little application and maybe learn
if you hit this key, this is what a screen reader would read, if you hit this key, this
is what your reader would read. Another simulation might give you an idea
of what a webpage might look like for users with certain visual disabilities, so say glaucoma
or diabetic retinopothy where there's definitey difficulty viewing the screen.
But that might vary, maybe for one user they have difficulty seeing, maybe it's peripheral
vision or maybe with the retinopothy, the speckled sort of difficulty that some users
may have. So there are simulations that are available
for that. I will say that as long as I'm mentioning
that kind, there actually is an extremely good extension available for the Chrome browser
called No Coffee. That's what the simulation is called.
It really does a very good job of providing some of those examples that a user can dial
up or down different filters that may affect the way that they can see the screen to help
them understand how different users might see those screens.
The most common and I think the most rich simulation I guess you could call it, that
we almost without fail will do is to have users interact with websites using just the
keyboard because many users with motor disabilities may or may not use traditional keyboards,
but they may use interact in ways where a computer treats it like a keyboard or some
kind of a switch device or those kinds of things that are a similar kind of interaction.
We'll take them to a difficult site, one we sometimes use is CNN where the user can't
see where they are because of that little, there's a little dotted outline that you can
usually find on links and that when you are navigating with a keyboard, but those are
missing and so they can't find where they are on the page.
There are hundreds of links on some pages and that frustration that they experience,
that they can understand this is how a user who may not be able to use a mouse will experience
this content and then direct them of course to a better example that's more useable so
they understand what a difference good design can make.
We've actually even tried that simulation a couple times where we asked a volunteer
to use a pair of chopsticks. We pull them out of the little paper wrapper
and ask them to use those just so they understand how a user with a mouth wander or that kind
of device may experience that same kind of thing which is extremely frustrating and difficult
for that participant. So those are a few examples.
Jerry: Certainly. Thank you. Joining us now is Paula Sotnik and she is
from the University of Massachusetts, Boston. Welcome, Paula
Paula: Hi there. Thank you and help to everybody. Just a little bit about myself...I am a person
with a disability. I have both professional and personal experience
with disability. Scoliosis that has actually now because of
age has progressed to kyphoscoliosis, it wouldn't be considered extremely severe, but enough
to create some issue. I've also had the great opportunity to direct
a training and technical assistance project over the last 12 years for all of the AmeriCorp,
Seniorcorp programs, a domestic national service programs in our states and territories.
And prior to that, have always done some kind of training around disability inclusion.
I actually have pretty strong feelings against simulation.
Just to start out with, we start out with the definition of simulation.
If you look it up, it talks about an imitation, a sham, an assumption of false appearances,
the act of pretending and that's something I don't think we want to get into when we
talk about training. If we take a look at what the overall goal
is, what we're trying to do with training, I think it's that we're trying to increase
activity and increase awareness of how inaccessible the world might be.
The best way we have found to do that is to really spend time with people who have disabilities
either engaging them in the training activities as trainers.
We have trainers with and without disabilities as well as our audience with and without disabilities.
Because then you get the miriade of different perspectives from people with disabilities.
The other problem with simulated disabilities is that you get a very limited exposure or
experience. You have 5 people who use a wheelchair and
not one of those persons will be the same or experience the same.
Another issue, a problem with simulation of disability, is that it focuses on the disability
or the limitation. It doesn't focus on the person.
We think about person first language, we talk about the person as a person first, disability
second. Disability simulation really focuses on that
disability, the accommodations, alternative strategy, creative task mat, task matching
and a number of other qualities composing that total person is not considered.
And then one other issue, one other point I'd like to make is that actually if you take
a look at the literature and some of the research, there is a lot of research and literature
that talks about disability simulation not being effective.
That there's little evidence that exists that these exercises have any kind of positive
affect on either attitude or behavior. So those are some of the points that I'd like
to make in terms of why we shouldn't be using disability simulation.
Jerry: It sounds like it takes quite a bit of organization when you're talking about
bringing together, if you're going to have such an activity in an interaction with people
with disabilities, that sometimes finding the participants can be a challenge.
Paula: Well, it isn't for us because we are a disability organization first of all, but
we have partnered with a miriade of other disability organizations...independent living
centers, there's a variety of disability specific organizations that would love to participate
in any kind of training that people are doing. You talk to a lot of people with disabilities,
that I hang around with anyway and that this would be the mode that they prefer.
So basically, if you're not a disability organization, is to partner, identify and invite someone
from an independent living center to come in and talk about his/her disability or have
students go in and spend a day at a independent living center or another disability organization.
To really talk to people to see what their experience is and also see what people go
through in inaccessible worlds, so you're not actually experiencing it yourself because
that is so very limited and really false. Jerry: So you're observing the people, experiencing
it first hand? Paula: Yes, exactly.
As I had mentioned, we are trainers, are people with and without disabilites.
They train side by side, but also our audiences tend to also be inclusive and integrated so
that our classroom or trainee audience will be people with and without disabilities.
As trainers, we model good training and learning techniques that are accommodating and use
a lot of aspects of universal design. So that's another aspect that folks get to
see is that kind of positive side of accommodation and universal design which is a strategy that
is good for everybody, not just people with disabilities in our training.
Jerry: Let's ask JW, in your classes, do they tend to be mixed? Do you have people with
disabilities that also participate? JW: Obviously, in a main stream university,
we have very few people with disabilities, but I want to highlight a point, one way that
I think simulations can work is to have a person with a disability with that disability
to be a part of that process. So I'm always open to that.
Obviously, being a blind person myself, of course it is my experience, I understand it
is limited to my reality, is not everyone's reality.
Another point to make is that my friend said about 5 people using wheelchairs, the experience
won't be the same. Well, how about that?
It probably won't be! Jerry: Yes
JW: Because everybody is different and so I don't expect my blind experiences to be
like anyone else's blind experiences, but they are mine.
I do find that when I bring a person that has that disability and my approach is not
to focus on the limitations of the exercise, but to make it the most positive, enriching
experience possible, trying to address some of those fears and so I demonstrate to them
what it's like for me to go through a day. That it's not the end of the world if they
lose their sight. That with proper training and with proper
techniques and little things here and there, you can live a very productive life and I
demonstrate that and show them that so that the end result when we are done is, "Oh my
god, it's got to be so sad that if I lose my sight, it's the end of the world!", "No,
I just demonstrated to you as best I could and I'm a living example that that need not
be the case" Jerry: Yes. Let me ask for anyone, is there
a story you can think of where you've been a party to a simulation and you've seen a
definite effect, a student or participant is come back and said this has really made
a difference in my life and this is how? JW: I don't want to talk to much, so I'll
let my colleagues, but I could tell you a phenomenal story, but I'll let my colleagues
speak. Paula: I'll address that.
I observed two sessions where participants were asked to put on blindfolds, tape their
ankles together and also wear ear plugs. They were asked to do various activities in
the room and these might have been just two incidents where I found they were not very
comfortable and not very positive. But it ended up being somewhat of an uncomfortable
parody, a lot of nervous laughter, some unintended joking that was happening with the audience.
Now, I don't think it's a blaming of the audience, I think it's just kind of a natural result
of a reaction of the audience when people are feeling uncomfortable with being asked
to do this all of a sudden. It really failed to accomplish the training
goal and it really promoted some false experiences, a little bit of pity and became somewhat of
a ludicrous activity. Jerry: And JW, do you have a positive experience?
JW: I had a student in my class last semester, a temporary abled bodied, went through the
class. She had some temporary issues before with
mobility issues, but during that class seemed to sort of your typical able bodied person.
She graduated from school. About 2 years later, I get a call from her
in the hospital after a terrible car accident. Long story short, she is now permanently using
that wheelchair now, but I remember that call so well and her talking about taking that
class, doing those exercises, I just don't know where I'd be if I hadn't had that experience
facing my life now. Now, she is a frequent visitor to my class
to talk about, I have sat just where you are sitting today and gone through many of these
experiences and now I'm in this chair for the rest of my life, let me give you the other
side of things. Jerry: Very interesting.
Let me ask, we've talked about the architectural barriers, we've talked about the technological
barriers that webbing seeks to mitigate, so are there other areas that as I alluded to
earlier, can't be taught with a simulation? How a person feels about themselves?
Their reactions to their disabilities or how they deal with reactions of others?
Is there ways to teach that? Susan: As I said earlier, I think with simulation,
it's difficult for people to get an idea of what may take place socially or in their interactions
with others, but I think part of that is because people may find at some point it challenging
or they may find it useful if they can learn how to read people's behaviors, non-verbal
interactions and what not. I think when people have disabilities, sometimes
that's an area that you may be told about briefly, but you're not really prepared for.
So as a simulation, what may be useful is some kind of role playing, giving scenarios,
helping people be in the moment and work through that to give them an idea of some of the things
to expect. Jerry: Right, they have to live it, basically.
Susan: Yeah, and so I think that is an area that is difficult to capture.
Jerry: Alright. Well, in our closing minutes here, does anyone
have a general comment that you'd like to make to anything that we've been discussing?
JW: This is JW. I just want to say that for a number of years,
I had some ambivalence and mixed emotion about this, but that has lessoned for me.
I'm firmly on the side of these, if done right, can work.
I think they have to be done right, seriously, as realistically as possible both with a pre
and post sort of debriefing section, structured as much as possible.
Jerry: Where the participants can really express what they've learned or further questions
maybe? JW: And what are the expectations here? What
are we trying to gain, what are we trying to accomplish?
Jerry: Alright. Susan, do you have any closing comments?
Susan: Well, I was listening as Paula was sharing and I think it's always important
for people to know that there are diverse experiences and perspectives and what I think
to have learned is that one thing that helps people become more comfortable is continuous
exposure to people with disability. And so, it may not be the first time or the
second or the third, that someone has a greater understanding, but through repetition and
familiarity people are able to see how diverse people are and then they come to a more realistic
understanding. Jerry: Alright and Jonathan, do you have comments
just for web developers of the world? Jonathan: This has been very enlightening
for me. I really appreciate being able to sit in on
this call. As I mentioned at the beginning, I some of
my experiences are a bit different, but I do think that simulations have their place
and some of the work that I spoke about because we're not just trying to teach maybe greater
empathy or understanding, but we are trying to help foster a skill set and it requires
an understanding of the experiences of individuals with disabilities, how can you create something
that is better, more accessible unless you kind of understand what those barriers will
be. We always start our workshop, by saying you
have to be careful not to categorize people by their disability, but you can categorize
the techniques that we're going to talk to you about by disability.
And that's a careful, it's a tricky kind of middle ground that you do have to walk, but
that's where I still see there being a place for some of these kind of simulations.
Jerry: And finallyPaula, do you have some closing comments for us?
Paula: I do and thank you for asking. I think if we're talking about disability
simulation, that is a person without a disability simulating someone who has a disability, there
are no right ways to do that. However, I do respect my colleagues opinions,
but I do offer a miriade of other alternative ways which include integration, includes inclusive
training activities, people with and without disabilities together to be able to increase
our sensitivity awareness of disability rather than using simulations.
I thank you very much for asking. Jerry: Well, I thank Dr. JW Smith, Associate
Professor, School of Communication Studies, Ohio University and Dr. Susan Stuntzner, Out
of Step member, Author of "Living with a Disability: Finding Peace Amidst the Storm" and Jonathan
Whiting, Director of Training and Evaluation at WebAIM; and Paula Sotnik, University of
Massachusetts Boston. Thanks for being with us today.
Step into business with small business expert, Linda Jadwin, President of the Northwest Business
& Community Development Center as she helps you open the door to possibilities.
Today, Linda will be sharing some expert tips on how to develop a small business.
Welcome, Linda. Linda: Thanks so much for having me.
Jerry: Great. What are a few tips you have for our listeners who are interested in starting
a small business? Linda: Well, one of the things I would begin
with is to make sure that you're home life can support you going into your own business.
People don't realize how much time and effort it takes to really launch your own business.
So, you really need to decide how involved you can be with your business because a lot
of us now have older parents or younger children, so sometimes we have to remember that life
is going to happen. A lot of people forget that life is going
to get in the way. Jerry: It certainly does.
Linda: So, we try to help people plan their business maybe on 50 weeks out of the year
instead of 52 so if you do have an emergency, a shut down happens, that you're still a viable
business. We need you to think about how much do you
need to earn? How much does the business need to earn for
you personally? And then on top of that, you have to add the
expenses that go along with running that business. We want to know where you are in your life
cycle, with your family and how important is a vacation to you?
Once again, you've got to plan if you want to take a day off.
And then we want to know, is this your passion so that you can continue one because this
is like adopting a child out there. So you want to have a lot of passion, not
necessarily to we want you to be in love with your idea because then a lot of times you
may not listen to outside influence. But if you had the passion, then a barrier
won't usually stop you from moving your business forward.
Jerry: Oh yes. Linda: And then we want you to think about
what experience or training do you have on what your idea is?
A lot of small businesses comparle old work experience, volunteer experience into running
a business, but we like to see that you've experienced working in that small scale because
sometimes when you've got all the hats on it gets a lot more frustrating to try to be
the marketer, the bookkeeper and the CEO. Makes it a hard day sometimes.
Jerry: Right. Just getting the big picture. Linda: And one of the best advices for it
you want to start up, is who do you know? Jerry: Networking.
Linda: Everybody has a pretty strong circle of influence and that circle can expand and
be the drop of the pebble that expands your market.
So, do you know someone who may know someone who is a great commercial real estate agent
or insurance agent or an accountant or a lawyer because you're going to need to find those
people to be on your team at least in an advisory situation.
Do you know someone who is really good at doing social media?
Do you know someone else who might know some ins and outs of hiring a employee or networking
or doing something? So, really make a list of who do you really
know that you can count on to help you support your business so you're not doing this by
yourself? You need to understand, how comfortable are
you going to be at meeting new people? As soon as you say, I'm going to be my own
business, that means you now just became the representative.
So, what's going to be your introduction on "Hi, I have my own business" doesn't work
as well as like we say, we take the business from start up to success to significance so
people know that we're here to help a business move on, off stage from where their at.
So, you've got to have that pitch ready to go as you start walking out the door.
You've got to know, are you comfortable at communicating on the social media platforms
because they've changed the whole ballgame. They're great because they've save a lot of
people a lot of money because now there is a lot of free advertising, but then who are
your friends who are on there and are they the type of people that need to advertising
on your business website? So, you really have to think about that.
And then think about what other assets do you have besides maybe a home or a car or
your toys. Maybe you have assets that you know how to
do numbers. Do you have an asset that you know who to
meet people easily? There's a lot of different kinds of assets
that people don't realize that they have and it's a great thing just to make a list of
everything that you have going for you because those are things that we turn into positive
on a business plan. Jerry: Right, it's a lot of forethought.
Linda: The more that you plan, the better likelihood that you have with retaining your
business. Right now, we're experiencing that 49% fail
within 5 years, but 69% survive that first 2 years.
So between year 3 and 5 something really happens that 20% start to really go downhill.
So, we don't want to have that happen. And it 4 years, people are still in there
about 44%, at 7 years it's only 31%. So usually we can say for those people, 80%
of them do not have a business plan. It doesn't have to be formal.
People get scared when I say let's do a business plan because they are like "Oh, my gosh, I
have to write a high school novel." But what we want it to be is a working document
for you so that you have measurable goals so you know when you hit that first level
of customer service or you hit your break even point, so you know "I have to have 9
people spending $35 a day" in order for me to cover my bills.
Because if you know it and you can measure it, it's a lot easier than "I'm going to have
great customer service." Jerry: And so if you do notice something that
isn't quite working out according to your plan, you're able to adjust that area of your
business. Linda: Right.
If you said "I"m going to try to have my Facebook page and that's how I'm going to generate
people to come in" and in your 3rd week, you only have 10 people that have liked you, something
is wrong with your Facebook page. And then you need to go in and adjust it.
And maybe you need to find something else that can get those results that you need.
You have to know your time and your money, to get a return on investment on both of them
in order for your business to succeed. Jerry: This sounds, too, like flexibility
is the key, that you're willing to make those changes when they need to be made.
Linda: Oh, so correct. That's why we hope that you have passion about
it and not in love with it. When you know how to something just this one
way, it's really hard to change midstream to still accomplish your goal.
But if you are open to other outside influences, you're open to being flexible, bending and
not breaking, then you have a much better change at succeeding.
Jerry: It sounds like it's really important to surround yourself with these advisors.
Linda: Oh, yeah. And there's a lot of advisors that are there
for free. The SBA, the Small Business Administration,
has a great networking tools out there that you can go on the sba.gov website and find
out local, free of charge counseling that's available to you.
A lot of the cities and counties also have people that can help you with economic development.
They are there to help people because they can give you traffic counts on a location
and what is the income at a 1/2 mile, mile and 5 miles away, so you can see at that location
that you're really looking at is available to support how many people need to come into
your business for you to break even and make a profit.
Jerry: That would be very good information. Linda: Oh, yeah.
And it's hard to find it all and people get inundated and overwhelmed by how many websites
you need to go through and how much homework you need to do.
But the more you do and the more you plan you business, the more successful you can
be. Jerry: Let me ask too. Many of our people
on our Out of Step website do of course have disabilities. Do you find that can be an advantage
in certain situation whether it be loans or? Linda: Yeah, it can be because there is some
additional forms of help because you have the department of vocational rehab that can
come in and help fund some things that you may need for your business.
Special wise for loan wise, not as much, There's not a set aside loan fund for that
unless they are military or a veteran because there is a patriot express loan fund that
is specifically for veterans. But we've helped a lot of people who are missing
a limb or have traumatic brain injury and our best advice to them is to bring their
spouse in so you have two sets of ears that you can really move forward and make it basically
a family event, to create a new business for you.
But I haven't had anyone held back because of a disability.
Jerry: That's excellent to know. Linda: There's a lot of franchises out there
that are done specifically to help those with disabilities.
So it's something to look at too, that you may need to buy or purchase a existing business
or franchise to really start you off in your business endeavor.
You have to know if you want to be retail or wholesale manufacturing or are you interested
in exporting? There's just so many things to think about.
My best advise is just to do a giant brain dump, get it out of your head, get it down
on paper and so see someone who can help you formulate it into a viable business.
Jerry: Well, that's great advise and I think it would take a lot of thought too as to whether
you're going to be the owner and manager, but to what extent you would be doing the
day to day activities of the business. Linda: Right. You need to decide what is going
to your role in the business? A lot of people are good at working with the
customers, but they find the bookwork to be the icky stuff.
So, if that's the icky stuff for you, then go and find someone who can do your bookkeeping
and have them teach you so you know what the numbers are telling you.
But then you need to have that full trust so that person is not going to walk away with
your profits, but help you grow your business. Everyone has strengths, so it's a really good
idea to sit down and say what am I really strong at, what do I really enjoy doing, what
do I see myself in the role in this business? So then if you know what you don't like to
do and who you don't want to work with, you can help plan for that.
Jerry: Very good advice! Well, we've reached the end of this segment of our broadcast today.
Would you like to come back and talk with us again sometime?
Linda: I would love to, anytime! Jerry: Great! Thanks, Linda and where can
we find out more information if we wanted to contact you?
Linda: You can email me at linda.pswbc@gmail.com or you can go to our website at www.pswbc.org
Jerry: Alright. Very good. Thanks for joining us today.
Linda: Thank you. Jerry: Thanks for tuning in to this week's
TOOST Radio to hear our guests and share their perspectives.
Be sure to email your thoughts and questions to radio@outofstep.com.
For The Out of Step Tool, I'm Jerry Pattee. Thank you for listening to The Out Of Step
Tool's TOOST Radio. Find past episodes and many more resources at www.outofstep.com,
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