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>>> PRESENTATION OF "DIALOGUE"
ON IDAHO PUBLIC TELEVISION IS
MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE
GENEROUS SUPPORT OF THE LAURA
MOORE CUNNINGHAM FOUNDATION,
COMMITTED TO FULFILLING THE
MOORE FAMILY'S LEGACY OF
BUILDING THE GREAT STATE OF
IDAHO.
>>> COMING UP, WHAT WOULD HAVE
HAPPEN FIRE DEPARTMENT THERE
WOULD HAVE BEEN A COMPETITION TO
DESIGN THE 9/11 MEMORIAL AND A
MUSLIM ARCHITECT HAD WON IT?
THAT'S THE PREMISE BEHIND AMY
WALDMAN'S FIRST NOVEL, "THE
SUBMISSION," AND IT'S AN INSTANT
BESTSELLER.
NEXT ON "DIALOGUE."
STAY TUNED.
♪♪
>>> HELLO, WELCOME TO
"DIALOGUE," I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN.
WHEN MY GUEST TODAY HAD AN IDEA
FOR HER FIRST BOOK, SHE
INITIALLY SHELVED IT.
BUT THE STORY JUST WOULDN'T
LEAVE HER ALONE.
SO AMY WALDMAN QUIT HER JOB AS A
REPORTER FOR THE "NEW YORK
TIMES" AND PUT HER THOUGHTS DOWN
ON PAPER.
EIGHT YEARS LATER THE RESULT WAS
"THE SUBMISSION," A NOVEL THAT
IMAGINES THE CONTROVERSY THAT
COULD ERUPT IF A MUSLIM
ARCHITECT WON THE COMPETITION TO
DESIGN THE 9/11 MEMORIAL IN NEW
YORK CITY.
IT WAS DESIGNED AROUND THE TIME
OF THE 10th ANNIVERSARY OF THE
TERRORIST ATTACKS AND QUICKLY
BECAME A BESTSELLER.
WALDMAN CRAFT AS STORY OF
INTRIGUE THAT'S AS MUCH A
COMMENTARY ON THE STATE OF
AMERICA'S DIALOGUE ON DEMOCRACY,
RELIGIOUS AND CLASS, AS IT IS
ABOUT A DESIGN COMPETITION.
I SPOKE WITH HER ABOUT HER BOOK
AT THE SUN VALLEY WRITERS'
CONFERENCE.
SINCE 1995, THE CONFERENCE HAS
BEEN BRINGING TOGETHER SOME OF
THE WORLD'S BEST AUTHORS TO
DISCUSS THEIR WORKS AND ISSUES
OF THE DAY.
I STARTED BY ASKING HOW SHE CAME
UP WITH THE IDEA FOR HER STORY.
>> FOR ME IT WAS IN LATE 2003
AND THE ACTUAL MEMORIAL
COMPETITION WAS GOING ON.
I WAS TALKING WITH A FRIEND BIT
AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE
COMPETITION.
SHE'S AN ARTIST AND WE STARTED
TALKING ABOUT THE PERSON WHO HAD
WON THE ANONYMOUS COMPETITION TO
DESIGN THE VIETNAM VETERANS
MEMORIAL.
ONE PIECE OF THAT WAS SHE WAS
ASIAN-AMERICAN AND SOME THOUGHT
THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THIS
MEMORIAL.
AS WE WERE TALKING I THOUGHT,
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF AN AMERICAN
MUSLIM WON THE BLIND COMPETITION
TO BUILD THE 9/11 MEMORIAL.
SOMEBODY SHOULD WRITE THAT.
I DIDN'T THINK IT SHOULD BE ME,
BUT IT REALLY STAYED WITH ME.
THEN I KEPT THINKING, I KNOW
SOMEBODY ELSE IS GOING TO DO IT.
BUT NOBODY DID.
>> WHAT FINALLY MADE YOU QUIT
YOUR REPORTING JOB AND GO FULL
BORE INTO THIS NOVEL?
>> PARTLILY, AS I SAID, THE IDEA
JUST DIDN'T GO AWAY, IT KIND OF
KEPT CIRCLING AROUND IN MY BRAIN
AND I SORT OF STARTED TO THINK,
I HAVE TO TRY THIS AT SOME
POINT.
THEN I WAS OH ON A FELLOWSHIP SO
I HAD A LITTLE BIT OF BREATHING
ROOM WHICH I DID NOT, IN MY JOB
AS A REPORTER.
I SAID I'M GOING TRY IT.
ONCE YOU STARTED I WAS TOTALLY
HOOKED ON FICTION AND THAT'S ALL
I WANTED TO DO.
>> A LOT OF IT WAS IT CAME OUT
AROUND 9/11 AND THE 10th
ANNIVERSARY.
HE DON'T MENTION IT BY NAME IN
THE BOOK, YOU MENTION SOME
TOWERS.
IT'S ALL ILLUSORY, IT'S NOT
STATED IN THE BOOK.
>> THAT WAS VERY CONSCIOUS FOR A
COUPLE OF REASONS.
PARTLY I DIDN'T WANT TO BE BOUND
BY HISTORY.
I WANTED THE FREEDOM THAT IF I
WANTED TO GIVE NEW YORK A FEMALE
GOVERNOR FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH I
DID IN THE BOOK, I COULD DO
THAT.
SO IT WAS PARTLY THAT.
AND PARTLY ALSO WORDS LIKE 9/11
AND GROUND ZERO HAD BECOME A
SORT OF SHORTHAND WHERE YOU
ALMOST DON'T THINK ANYMORE WHEN
YOU HEAR THEM, OR YOU THINK TOO
MUCH ABOUT YOUR OWN EXPERIENCES.
IT BECOMES TO GROUNDED IN
REALITY AND I WAS TRYING TO USE
NEW WORLDS SO YOU FORGET SOME OF
THAT, ALTHOUGH THE BOOK IS SO
TIED TO IT.
IT SEEMED EASIER TO LEAVE IT
MORE ABSTRACT AND MORE
ENCOURAGING FOR THE READER'S
IMAGINATION, ANYWAY.
>> I WAS A REPORTER IN NEW YORK
FOR ABOUT SIX WEEKS IN THE
AFTERMATH OF 9/11.
IT WAS VERY HELPFUL, PARTLY JUST
TO SEE WHAT IT DID TO THE CITY,
TO HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OF THE
GRIEF, BOTH BY INTERVIEWING
FAMILY WHOSE HAD LOST PEOPLE BUT
ALSO JUST LIVING IN THE CITY.
SO I THINK I DIDN'T LATER, AS I
WAS DOING THE NOVEL GO AND SEEK
OUT FAMILY MEMBERS OR ANYTHING
LIKE THAT.
BUT I THINK HAVING THAT
EXPERIENCE REALLY HELPED IN
RECONSTRUCTING A LITTLE BIT WHAT
THAT PERIOD WAS LIKE.
>> YOU DID NOT INTERVIEW PEOPLE
FOR THIS, THAT WAS INTENTIONAL,
AS WELL?
>> I FELT LIKE I WAS START TO
CENSOR MYSELF IF I DID.
I DON'T FEEL RIGHT ASKING FOR
THE STORIES FOR A NOVEL.
SOMEHOW I WASN'T COMFORTABLE
DOING THAT.
ALSO I FELT LIKE I MIGHT
CONFERENCIERS MIGHT HAVE ONCE I
HAVE AN ACTUAL PERSON'S VOICE IN
MY HEAD, AND START THINKING AS
I'M TYPING, WOULD THEY LIKE
THIS, COULD THIS OFFEND THEM.
I DIDN'T WANT TO BE IN THAT
POSITION.
I JUST KEPT MY HEAD DOWN AT THE
COMPUTER AND KEPT WRITING.
>> TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT MORE
ABOUT THE MEMORIAL SCENE.
>> YOU KNOW, I HAD NOT THOUGHT A
GREAT DEAL ABOUT MEMORIALS UNTIL
I WROTE THIS NOVEL.
I SPENT A LOT OF TIME READING
ABOUT THEM, THINKING ABOUT THEM,
VISITING THEM WHEN I COULD, AND
READING ABOUT THE PROCESSES
LEADING UP TO THEM, WHICH IN
SOME WAYS WAS MORE INSTRUCTIVE
THAN LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL
DESIGNS.
IT SORT OF BECAME -- I BECAME
ENAMORED OF THE IDEA OF THE
PROCESS.
THE STORY IS BECAUSE THAT'S
WHERE, WHATEVER IT IS WE'RE
TRYING TO MEMORIALIZE, WHAT EVER
UNHEALED DIVISIONS AND PROBLEMS
THERE ARE, THAT WE ARE FORCED TO
CONFRONT THEM, AS WE DID WITH
THE VIETNAM MEMORIAL.
>> WHICH WAS MODIFIED FOR PEOPLE
WHO FELT LIKE IT WAS TOO
ABSTRACT.
THERE'S A SCULPTURE THERE.
>> RIGHT, RIGHT.
>> SO A MEMORIAL TO TRY TO
SATISFY ALL THE DIFFERENT --
>> RIGHT, RIGHT.
BUT I THINK HISTORY OVER TIME
SINCE THEN HAS SHOWN THAT IT IS
REALLY HER MEMORIAL THAT SPEAKS
TO AN EMOTIONAL CONSENSUS WE
ALMOST DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD ABOUT
THE WAR.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S SO
POWERFUL ABOUT WHAT SHE DID,
FINDING THE LANGUAGE FOR THINGS
WE AGREED ON WITHOUT EVEN
KNOWING IT.
>> DIALOGUE THAT'S IN YOUR BOOK,
THE CHARACTERS, THE DIALOGUE,
AND THE SCENARIOS, WERE JUST --
I FOUND MYSELF NODDING AND
SAYING, WOW, THIS SEEMS EXACTLY
LIKE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED
AND DO HAPPEN.
>> RIGHT, UH-HUH.
>> I MEAN, REALLY YOU GOT TO THE
CRUX OF IT, I THINK.
SOME OF THAT WAS JUST IN YOUR
IMAGINATION.
SOME OF IT, WHEN THE PARK 51
CONTROVERSY ERECTED, WHICH FELT
EARLY SIMILAR TO YOUR BOOK WHEN
YOU WERE WRITING IT.
>> DEFINITELY.
I HAD FINISHED MY DRAFT, THE
PROPOSED COMMUNITY CENTER NEAR
GROUND ZERO, THE SORT OF
CONTROVERSY EXPLODES.
SUDDENLY I AM IN COMPETITION
WITH REALITY TRYING TO ACTUAL
CHANGE THINGS IN THE NOVEL,
PARTLY BECAUSE THEY WERE LINES
I'VE WRITTEN THAT NOW SOUNDED TO
A SIMILAR TO WHAT I WAS READING
IN THE NEWSPAPER.
LINES OF DIALOGUE MIRRORED EACH
OTHER SO CLOSELY, I CHANGED
THEM.
IT WAS WEIRD TO HAVE A TEMPLATE
OF WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
COMING TO LIFE BEFORE THEM.
IT OPENED UP MY IMAGINATION A
LITTLE BIT AND WAS VERY
INSTRUCTIVE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, NOT
THAT I WANTED TO COPY THE EVENTS
OF THAT, BUT UNDERSTANDING THE
MECHANICS OF HOW THESE THINGS
SORT OF SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL
AND THE ODD WAYS THAT THEY MOVE.
>> AND EVEN GOT VIOLENT
SOMETIMES.
DIDN'T YOU CHANGE YOUR BOOK A
LITTLE BIT TO REFLECT WHAT YOU
WERE SAYING IN DEBATE AT THE
CENTER?
THAT HADN'T BEEN PART OF YOUR
BOOK ORIGINALLY.
>> IT WAS JUST I THINK NARROWER
IN THE SENSE OF WHAT MIGHT
HAPPEN.
ALWAYS AS I WAS WRITING, I WAS
THINKING, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN?
YOUR DOING YOUR BEST TO TRY TO
FOUND THEORY A DARK ROOM, TRYING
TO FIGURE OUT THE DIMENSIONS.
SUDDENLY THE LIGHT WENT ON IN
THE ROOM AND, UH-OH, THIS IS
MUCH BIGGER THAN I REALIZED.
THERE WAS A SPECTER OF VIOLENCE
IN THE AIR, A MUSLIM TAXI DRIVER
WAS STABBED IN NEW YORK.
THAT GOT ME THINKING THAT
VIOLENCE COULD START TO COME
INTO THIS.
AND ALSO ONCE IT STARTS TO COME
IN, IT KEEPS REBOUNDING AND
REBOUNDING, DOESN'T STOP THERE
USUALLY.
>> YOU HAVE SIX MAIN CHARACTERS,
THEY ARE ALL VERY VISIBLY DRAWN,
FROM THE SECULAR MUSLIM WHO WINS
THE COMPETITION TO, THE WIDOW OF
A MAN KILLED TO ANOTHER WIDOW
WHO WAS AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT.
EACH CHARACTER SEEMS TO
REPRESENT A DIFFERENT REACTION
AS TO HOW A MEMORIAL IS DESIGNED
AND THE WHAT IF MUSLIMS WERE
PICKED.
WAS THAT YOUR INTENTION TO, HAVE
EACH CHARACTER REPRESENT A
DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW?
>> IT WASN'T DIFFERENT POINTS OF
VIEW, I WANTED THEM TO REPRESENT
DIFFERENT EMOTIONAL
PERSPECTIVES, DIFFERENT CLASS
PERSPECTIVES.
I FELT LIKE THAT WAS ALWAYS AN
UNDERCURRENT IN THESE DEBATES
THAT DOESN'T GET SPOKEN OF BUT
IS OFTEN THERE AND I FELT WAS
THERE, EVEN AROUND THE 9/11
MEMORIAL SOMETIMES.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, FIGURING OUT
JUST IN A NOVEL YOU NEED A PLOT,
A NARRATIVE.
WHO WOULD BE DRIVING IT FORWARD?
YOU NEED THE CHAIRMAN OF THE
JURY, A JOURNALIST WHO'S KIND OF
COVERING AND ALSO INTERVIEWING A
LITTLE BIT.
SO IT WAS KIND OF A COMBINATION
OF THOSE THINGS.
IT WAS MY EXPERIENCE THAT THE
REPORTER AFTER 9/11 TO BE IN NEW
YORK AND OVERSEAS AND IN
AFGHANISTAN.
MY PERSPECTIVE WAS SHUTTLED FROM
POINT OF VIEW TO POINT OF VIEW
TO POINT OF VIEW, AND I REALLY
WANTED TO RECAPTURE THAT IN A
NOVEL SO YOU DON'T REALLY
CAPTURE IN ANY ONE PLACE.
YOU'VE SAID YOU DON'T REALLY
WANT PEOPLE TO RETHINK THEIR
POINTS OF VIEW AS THEY READ THIS
BOOK, AND COME UP WITH --
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN --
WHEN I WAS READING IT, YOU KNOW,
YOU MIGHT HAVE SYMPATHY FOR A
PARTICULAR CHARACTER.
AND THEN THE WAY YOU'VE WRITTEN
IT, IT'S GRAY.
>> YES, I WANTED GRAYNESS.
I DID.
I JUST DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE
EASY.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE THINK OR
THINK ABOUT, BUSY AS YOU MOVE
THROUGH THESE DIFFERENT
CHARACTERS YOU'RE CONSTANTLY
HAVING TO THINK ABOUT THINGS IN
DIFFERENT WAYS.
>> THE ARCHITECT, YOU KNOW, YOU
AUTOMATICALLY THINK, WELL, OF
COURSE, HE WON THE BLIND
COMPETITION.
HE'S NOT ALL THAT LIKEABLE AND A
LOT OF TIMES HE REMINDS ME AS
THE MOVABLE GRANITE OF A
MEMORIAL.
HE'S ASKED TO MODIFY HIS DESIGN,
EXPLAIN HIS DESIGN, IS IT A
GARDEN FOR MARTYRS.
THE MORE HE IS PUSHED THE MORE
HE CLOSES DOWN.
SO HE'S NOT -- YOU CAN'T SAY ONE
WAY OR THE OTHER, O THIS GUY'S
GREAT OR THERE'S NO HEROS
ORRVILLE 11, HERE.
>> AND YOU DON'T KNOW, IS IT
PRINCIPLE THAT HE'S REFUSING TO
ANSWER, IS IT AMBITION, IS HE
HIDING SOMETHING.
I WANTED THAT SORT OF FIR
POSSIBLE THERE FOR A LITTLE BIT.
>> HOW IMPORTANT TO YOU WAS THAT
IT M OH O WAS SECULAR, IN OTHER
WORDS, THAT HE WASN'T VERY
RELIGIOUS?
>> I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT,
AND PARTLY BECAUSE I WAS REALLY
INTERESTED IN THE IDEA OF
BUILDING THE STRUCTURE ON
IDENTITY, SORT OF DECIDING WHO
YOU ARE.
SO IN THE WAKE OF THE ATTACK IN
THE BOOK OR SEPTEMBER 11th IN
REALITY, FOR MANY MONTHS IT
DIDN'T MATTER HOW RELIGIOUS OR
PRACTICES YOU WERE, HOW EXTREME
OR NOT EXTREME YOU WERE, PEOPLE
SAW YOU THE SAME WAY.
I KIND OF WANTED THAT FOR HIM.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE'S
SECULAR.
PEOPLE REACT TO HIS NAME.
HE DOESN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HIS
OWN RELIGION.
PEOPLE RAISED IN THE WEST
WITHOUT 77 RELIGIOUS, HE'S ALSO
TRYING TO EXPECT A LITTLE BIT IN
THE COURSE OF THE APPRECIATION
OF THIS.
BUT THAT BEGINS TO CHANGE A
LITTLE BIT.
>> AND THE TITLE OF THE BOOK IS
REFLECTIVE OF THAT, I LIKE THE
TITLE, "THE SUBMISSION."
THE SUBMISSION BEING SUBMITTING
YOUR DESIGN TO THE CONTEST, BUT
ALSO SUBMISSION IN ISLAM.
>> TO THE WILL OF GOD.
>> AND THEN ALL THE CHARACTERS
HAVING TO DECIDE, OKAY, AM I
GOING TO SUBMIT, YEAH, YEAH.
>> BUT THAT WASN'T THE ORIGINAL
TITLE.
>> THE ORIGINAL TITLE WAS THE
GUARANTEE, WHICH HAS TO DO WITH
YOUR ATTRACTION TO GARDENS IN
AFGHANISTAN WHERE YOU VISITED.
>> UH-HUH, UH-HUH.
ONCE YOU STARTED TO THINK ABOUT
THE MEMORIAL DESIGN AND MAYBE
HAVING IT ISLAMIC, NOBODY KNOWS,
I HAVE VISIT ONE GARDEN IN KABUL
IN AFGHANISTAN, AND STARTED TO
RESEARCH A LOT OF OTHERS AND
ALSO THEIR HISTORY, WHICH IS
REALLY INTERESTING.
SORT OF STARTING THEIR DESIGN, I
KIND OF FOUR-SQUARED SCREAM
METRIC, PETITIONING BEGAN AS AN
AGRICULTURAL DESIGN FOR
IRRIGATION.
TYPICALLY IT COMES TO REPRESENT
PARADISE.
THIS IDEA OF MUTATING MEANINGS
OF THE FORM INTERESTED ME.
I CALLED IT THE GARDEN FOR A
LONG TIME BUT FELT IT DIDN'T
HAVE ENOUGH RESONANCE.
>> HOW IMPORTANT WAS TO IT PUT
THE I AM GRANT CHARACTER IN THE
BOOK A WOMAN, A WIDOW, HER
HUSBAND WHO WORKED IN THE TOWEL
WAS,.
>> WAS THAT A CHARACTER YOU
WANTED TO INCLUDE FOR A
PARTICULAR REASON?
>> I NOW EARLY ON I HAD READ
ACCOUNTS OF IMMIGRANTS WHO HAD
DIED, AND TO ME PART OF THE
NOVEL WAS SORT WHO HAVE GETS TO
MAKE DECISIONS, WHO HAS POWER.
AND THIS IDEA IN THE EARLY
PERIOD AFTER SEPTEMBER 11, I
FELT LIKE FAMILY MEMBERS WERE
TALKED ABOUT AS THIS SORT OF
MONOLITH, WHICH THEY NEVER WERE.
CERTAINLY AN I AM GRANT SO
REMOVE FROM THE IMAGE THAT WE
HAD OF MANY OF THE FAMILY
MEMBERS OF THOSE WHO DIED, AND
JUST AN OUTSIDER.
AND CLAIRE, THE WIDOW WHO SITS
ON THE JURY IS KIND OF AN
ULTIMATE INSIDER.
I WAS LOOKING AT THE
SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THEM, AND
THEY COULD NOT BE MOREIFFERENT
IN TERMS OF BACKGROUND,
ETHNICITY, FINANCIAL STATUS.
THEY ARE TWO WOMEN IN THE LAKE
OF MARRIAGES THAT LARGELY
DEFINED THEIR LIVES, WE'RE
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO THEY
ARE.
WITH THE SIX CHARACTERS, THERE
WERE A LOT OF PARALLELS WHERE
THEY WOULD SEEM LIKE I HAD
IMAGINED THEM AS SO DIFFERENT,
AND TWO-YEAR-OLDLY THESE KIND OF
INTERNAL CONVERGE GENSES.
>> ONE MAN WAS ORIGINALLY A
WOMAN.
>> YES, A SEX CHANGE, YOU CAN DO
ANYTHING YOU WANT.
>> SHAWN, WHO'S BROTHER WAS
FIREFIGHTER WHO DIED, WAS
ORIGINALLY A WIDOW, AND THAT WAS
NOT WORKING, KNOTS NOT
INTERESTING TO ME AS WRITER, SO
I FELT WOULDN'T IN INTERESTING
TO ME AS A READER.
AND LOOSEY WAS MEANT TO BE A
MAN, AND BECAME SHAWN.
>> NOT THE FREEDOM YOU CAN'T
HAVE AS A JOURNALIST BUT YOU CAN
HAVE --
>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
>> BUT GOING BACK TO THE
BANGLADESHI WOMAN IN YOUR PIECE,
EVEN THOUGH SHE'S AN OUTSIDER,
ITS HER STORY AND I WON'T GIVE
IT AWAY.
BUT SHE DRAWS EVERYONE TOGETHER.
>> THAT'S A GREAT WAY TO PUT
THAT.
>> SHE PULLS EVERYONE TOGETHER.
>> AND TO ME, IN SOME WAYS THE
BOOK IS NOT ABOUT 9/11 AT ALL,
IT'S A NOVEL ABOUT AMERICA.
I THINK FOR A LOT OF AMERICA,
THAT'S WHAT THAT COUNTRY, WILL
IT HOLD UP TO OUR WELL,S AND
ILLUSIONS AND CERTAINLY WHAT SHE
IS TRYING TO WORK THROUGH.
I BELIEVE IN THIS PLACE, DON'T
DISAPPOINT ME.
IT WAS INTERESTING TO WRITE HER
CHARACTER, AS WELL, BECAUSE FOR
PART OF THE BOOK IT REALLY IS
INTERESTING, SHE DRAWS EVERYBODY
TOGETHER ULTIMATELY.
FOR SO MANY OF THE BOOK SHE'S IN
THE PAGES OUTSIDE THE MAIN
NARRATIVE ACTION.
YOU DON'T EXACTLY NOW WHY YOU'RE
READING ABOUT HER UNTIL IT ALL
COMES TOGETHER.
>> YOU HAVE A CHARACTER IN YOUR
BOOK WHO IS A REPORTER.
>> THIS BE CERTAINLY A RIPPED
FROM THE HEADLINES REPORTER.
SHE TAKES EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO
GET INFORMATION, NO MATTER HOW
UNETHICALLY SHE GETS IT.
WAS THIS IN ANY WAY A COMMENT
TEAR ON YOUR FORMER APPRECIATION
FESSION AND THINGS THAT ARE
GOING ON THAT ARE CHANGING?
>> I THINK WHEN THE BOOK FIRST
CAME OUT, I KEPT SAYING OF
COURSE NOT.
BUT I MUST HAVE BEEN COMMENTING
IN SOME WAY, OH OTHERWISE WHERE
DID I CONSTRUCT THE CHARACTER
THAT WAY?
BUT THIS WOMAN, ALYSSA, A
TABLOID WORKER IN NEW YORK, IN
GENERAL IN THE NOVEL I WAS VERY
INTERESTED IN THE PRESS OF THE
MEDIA, ALMOST AS A CHARACTER
ITSELF.
>> I'LL IT SHAPES THE NEWS AS
MUCH AS HE'S REPORTING IT.
SO PARTLY THROUGH HER I WAS JUST
TRYING TO EXPLODE SOME OF THAT.
BUT THIS IS NOT SYSTEM A THREE
MAKING IT IN SOME SORT OF WAY.
PERHAPS SOME AMBIVALENCE ABOUT
THE PROFESSION, AND ASKING
FAMILY MEMBERS WHAT IS IT LIKE
TO LOSE SOMEONE.
IT'S A DIFFICULT POSITION TO BE
IN.
I THINK I ALWAYS FELT SLIGHTLY
AMBIVALENT ABOUT THAT.
I FELT A LOT OF THAT IN NEW YORK
CITY NEWSROOMS.
I THINK I FIND HER MORE HUMAN IN
A WAY THAT SOME OF MY READERS V
PARTLY IN THAT SORT OF SCRAPPY
HUNGER AND AMBITION.
BUT ALSO SHE'S KIND OF A
DEMOCRAT WITH A LITTLE D, IN
THAT HAVE YOU THE ESTATE
KEEPERS, THE GENTLEMAN OF THE
JURY, HIS INITIAL INSTINCT IS TO
MAKE ANOTHER DECISION OR SUB
PRESS THAT INFORMATION.
SHE SAID, YOU DON'T GOAT MAKE
THAT DECISION, AND WE PUT IT OUT
THERE.
WE HAVE THE OLD DAYS OF THE ARE
IF THE NEW YORK TIMES WAS
DECIDING WHAT GLOS ON ON HIS
FRONT PAGES, AND THAT GOES ON
MORE AND MORE.
LOOK AT WIKILEAKS.
WHEN YOU THINK IT'S GOING HURT
OR HARM, THAT'S PARTLY WHAT I WI
WAS INTERESTED IN.
THERE'S A HARDENING THING THAT
HAPPENS WITH YOU.
I FELT THE IN MYSELF WHEN I WAS
A REPORTER OVERSEAS AND IN NEW
YORK.
I THINK THAT'S INEVITABLE,
BECAUSE YOU CANNOT FEEL DEEPLY
FOR EVERY SINGLE TRAGEDY OR
HORRIBLE THING YOU'RE REPORTING
ON.
BUT THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES TO
THAT, AS WELL, WHEN YOU STOP
FEELING MAYBE SOME OF THE
EMPATHY OR SENSITIVITIES OR
UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU MIGHT
HAVE BEFORE THE EXPERIENCES.
>> I'M WONDERING ABOUT STUDENTS
USING THIS BOOK, BECAUSE IT
SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE A REALLY
GOOD TOUCHSTONE FOR SOME ETHICAL
DISCUSSIONS ABOUT NOT JUST
MEMORIALS.
BUT AS YOU SAY, WHAT DOES IT
MEAN TO BE AN AMERICAN.
WE HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WHAT
DO WE DO WITH IT.
WE THINK WE HAVE A MERIT TOCKOC,
IS IT REALLY.
>> COMMUNITIES THAT ARE DOING
KIND OF COMMUNITY READS, QUITE A
FEW ACTUALLY, BUT THEN SCHOOLS
ARE ALSO STARTING TO WORK WITH
IT AND ADOPT IT.
I THINK FOR STUDENTS, YOU KNOW,
JUST HAVING TO SIT IN EACH
CARRIKER'S SHOES.
>> WHAT YOU DO IF THE CHAIR --
IF I WAS ON THE JURY.
>> SO DEFINITELY, I THINK A LOT
OF TEACHERS COULD BE THINKING
ABOUT THAT.
AND I THINK ALSO, SO MANY HIGH
SCHOOL STUDENTS, I NEVER THINK
ABOUT HOW OLD I AM, BUT THERE
ARE GENERATIONS COMING UP WHO
9/11 IS A PIECE OF HISTORY THAT
THEY HAVE TO LEARN ABOUT.
THERE ARE HISTORY BOOKS, AND
ENDLESS DOCUMENTATION OF WHAT
HAPPENED THAT DAY.
BUT IT SEEMS FOR YOUNGER PEOPLE,
INCLUDING PEOPLE IN THEIR 20s,
FRANKLY, DIDN'T REALLY -- OR
TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF WHAT THE
LAST DECADE WAS LIKE IN AMERICA.
THEY SEEM TO BE RESPONDING TO IT
WITH RESEARCH.
>> WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU TO
HAVE YOUR FIRST NOVEL RECEIVE
SUCH ACCLAIM, AND THEN HIT THE
PARK IN THE SENT OF WHETHER OR
NOT YOU WANTED TO BE ASSOCIATED
WITH PAR 51 AND THE CONTROVERSY.
WHAT HAS THIS ALL BEEN LIKE FOR
YOU?
>> I THINK IT'S FUNNY, THERE'S
STILL A PART OF ME THAT I GOT IT
PUBLISHED, ACTUALLY GOT IT
WRITTEN.
>> WITH TWINS.
>> YES, I HAVE TWINS.
SO IT'S BEEN GREAT, THE
REACTION.
AND JUST HEARING HOW READERS
READ THE BOOK, AND IN VERY
UNEXPECTED WAYS OFTEN.
THEY COME UP WITH
INTERPRETATIONS I DON'T THINK I
THOUGHT UP BUT WHEN THEY SAY IT,
IT MAKES SENT TO ME.
I MEAN, YES, PRAISE IS NICE AND
ALL THAT BUT THAT'S REALLY BEEN
THE MOST REWARDING PART OF IT.
>> DO YOU THINK THAT YOU'LL GO
BACK TO JOURNALISM, OR ARE YOU
ENAMERS ENOUGH WITH
NOVEL-WRITING THAT YOU'LL STICK
WITH THIS GENRE?
>> I THINK I'LL STICK WITH NOVEL
WRITING.
I WILL DO SOME JOURNALISM BUT I
REALLY -- MY BRAIN SORT OF
SHIFTED.
I USED TO CONSTANTLY BE THINKING
OF NEW IDEAS FOR JOURNALISTIC
STORIES.
NOW MY BRAIN IS SORT OF TURNING
IT INTO FICTION AND THINKING BIT
IN FICTIONAL TERMS.
I'M STILL ENGAGED WITH A LOT OF
THE SAME KINDS OF THINGS, BUT I
DON'T KNOW WHY I'VE GONE TO THE
DARK SIDE OR THE OTHER SIDE, AND
I THINK I'LL STAY THERE.
>> YOUR NEXT WORK WILL DRAW ON
YOUR LOVE OF AFGHANISTAN AND
YOUR VISITS THERE.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE ABOUT
THAT?
>> IT'S SORT OF I'LL LIKE THE
WAR WAS YOU WERE GOING TO SPEND
THE NEXT FEW YEARS TAKING
MULTIPLE TRIPS THERE, THE IDEA
OF BEING IN THE COUNTRY AND
STILL FASCINATED BY IT.
I FEEL THAT THE WAR HAS REALLY
BEEN INVISIBLE, ALMOST, IN SOME
WAYS, AND HAS NOT GOTTEN ENOUGH
ATTENTION.
AND CERTAINLY HAS BEEN NOT
EXPLORED VERY MUCH IN FICTION AT
ALL.
THAT'S PARTLY MY INTEREST.
JUST TRYING TO AGAIN UNDERSTAND
OUR PERSONS THERE.
I THINK I WANT TO WRITE FICTION
PARTLY ABOUT THE THINGS THAT
CONFUSED ME AND UNSETTLED ME.
PEOPLE OFTEN WANT TO YOU KNOW.
EVEN WITH "THE SUBMISSION" WHAT,
DID YOU THINK AND WHAT DID YOU
DEFINITE, AND IT'S A WAY TO
PRODUCE THINGS THESE, KNOWING
THAT.
THIS NOVEL,, TOO IS JUST A WAY
TO THINK ABOUT THE WAR.
>> DO YOU KNOW THE VOICE YET?
>> IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BE
STRUCTURED QUITE DIFFERENTLY.
IT'S PARTLY ABOUT A BOOK AND THE
POWER OF A BOOK.
AND IN A WEIRD WAY THE BOOK IS A
CHARACTER.
I FIRST SECTION WILL BE FROM THE
BOOK, AND OTHER SECTIONS WILL BE
FROM PEOPLE WHO WERE IN SOME WAY
INFLUENCED OR CHANGED THEIR
LIVES BECAUSE OF THIS BOOK.
>> GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
>> THANK YOU, I'LL LOOK FORWARD
TO READING IT.
I'LL LOOK FORWARD WITH INTEREST
TO GOING BACK TO THAT PART OF
THE WORLD.
>> YOU'VE BEEN LISTENING TO AMY
WALDMAN, THE AUTHOR OF "THE
SUBMISSION."
TO LEARN MORE ABOUT WALDMAN AND
HER WORK OR TO WATCH THE SHOW
AGAIN, GO TO IDAHOPTV.ORG AND
CLICK ON "DIALOGUE."
THAT'S ALSO WHERE YOU CAN WATCH
PAST CONVERSATIONS WITH AUTHORS
FROM THE CONFERENCE.
I'D LIKE TO THANK THE ORGANIZERS
OF SUN VALLEY WRITERS'
CONFERENCE FOR FINDING TIME FOR
AUTHOR INTERVIEWS.
I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN, THANK YOU
FOR TUNING IN.
♪♪
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MOORE CUNNINGHAM FOUNDATION,
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MOORE FAMILY'S LEGACY OF
BUILDING THE GREAT STATE OF
IDAHO.
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