Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
let on the uh... phone it is always a pleasure to welcome back to this program
from the
great
hoover blog hullabaloo
the greatest over blogger digby
welcome to the program today
bank ran fry so then
and the alley
i wanted to talk it sometime this week uh... i wasn't is paying one to talk to
you before uh... the and as we we get closer to the of the holidays and the
uh... the fiscal cliff the fiscal clara biaz thirty bob whatever with anybody
has uh... branded a uh... out there
and
um...
then something really fascinating happened over the past week
e started and i think i notice that you had died flagged this clip
started at least personally from e with uh...
going on up with kristen sitting next to it that way i really had no idea who he
was
after the fact i googled him who talk about donahue peoples
more uh...
uh... committee for president obama big fundraiser for him
who was sort of
out of the blue
arguing
that
through simultaneously arguing that
a b on the merits the estate actually go away for civil rights reasons but that
it uh... that it dot that's the way it's going to go and then also arguing in a
very similar way that uh... the medicare age eligibility age probably have to go
up and not that he was sort of not arguing on the merits as soon as i tried
to question on the merits it was more about hey this is the political
realities that the situation
and
it became very transparent
that this guy was actually arguing the merits of these policies
what touching it in this notion of look we got to make a deal
told this is sort of words colin and this is this is all just physics and
there's nothing we can do about it
and then of course i googled a minute turns out to be one of the wealthiest
african-americans in the country
uh... not coincidentally
uh... and
this sort of a rough time with the same thing with as recline and jonathan chai
over the past week
well yes manning who have been coming on for a wilder
aaye alfalfa on
jim quite burn
uh...
also a great you know i don't have to produce uh... you know proposal by
bob corker
which came out maybe a week ago
and he's been reading the new you know
reasonable republican his you know if they are we meeting agreed and raise
taxes but that is what we need in return
and he set forth the idea of rating america rate along with a bunch of other
stuff and he was gone now and i think it's just a couple of days after you
were
on with this gentleman people
uh... ok and with jim climbing again part of how i agree with all of that
namaskar startled you-know-who wide way where that come from request any boyer
and some others that they've been out there staying there for a while as well
so this is in the ether
and it kind of iraq you give it a week when insurer
klein
well first jonathan st
uh... endorsed the idea uh... ed which he did two years ago also uh... in the
pages of the new republican which he
siddiqi indoors the idea on the merits set that um... the medicare rates should
write for you know for a good reading and people are living longer all the
usual bs
but enjoy reported that you know he but hearing from the white house that they
were open to the idea he defended absolutely he stands by his reporting on
that despite the fact that others or now fame line here in the opposite so that's
where the where that came from it seems to have there is no doubt in my mind is
that this is in the ether either at the trial balloon which is is certainly part
of all or
this is clearly where there's delis crystallizing around the idea of
slightly higher tax rates and by the way that
that tax rates
part of this discussion is that the tax return actually kanika hop reflective as
you know they want
uh... in exchange for raising the medicare uh... eligibility age though
staff that's where the voters
did this it is jack coming from in effect at this
and a guy it that you were on a show with on these two people
but he was also hearing that is just another an indication that this is part
of their uh...
you know part of part of the discussions among the insider and listen this is the
sort of the tricky part about this is that uh... when someone says i'm hearing
this
their there's really sir to reactions you can have right one is
um...
this is uh... it let's take the medicare eligibility age because
while uh... don't appreciate may have uh... uh...
argued in favor it on the merits a couple years ago
it is quite clear now and now he seems to be arguing it just because
he says the
relative value to the republicans in terms of their ability to sort of
died as well as a scalp
is greater than what he perceives the policy implications
uh... to be
which i think is also a weak argument in in a bit self but there seems to be
a surprising amount
of universal uh... agreement
that raising the medicare eligibility age
is
policy
from any standpoint
not only is it bad for the people who could
die
uh... because they don't have
um... a medicare eligibility um...
dishes it let's face it that way
but it also does not say you've
e money idiot costs more money in the end
uh...
what you could respond on the merits or you can simply say like this is what i'm
hearing it's just heading that direction and maybe we should just get behind it
and so there's a question as to whether when someone is presenting that
whether they are actually
not arguing for
but just in the guise of this seems to be happening
no i dot certainly possible parent that feedback loop in the idea that well you
know this traders weapons station there's no stopping at any need to
defend feeling a lot any
fiscal cliff
discussions that
it's kind of the life of its content and and you know i a and the idea also that
is started just intrinsic to the idea of the you know quote negotiations
which in fact
there have to be some concession what's it going to be
and be democrats
we know that you know they're going to die on they've made that very very clear
they must have tax increases
and i think really got nothing from potentially any of them
says what their bottom line is in terms of what they're prepared to give up in
order to get that in fact the deal has seemed to me for many months
interpreting this you know to the point where my readers there ready to you kill
me
is that
you know that
the dated the entire deal has been structured around the idea that the
democratic victory is eight upon getting a hike in tax rates
and that is the essence of the victor if not you now protecting medicare and
medicaid it's not you know trying to it you know that the president termed it a
ballot which approach but the only thing he's been specific about has been the
tax hikes
that they have to go out for their wealthiest what equipment which i'm not
unhappy about i mean of course i think they should go out there doing very well
in this economy i don't think it will have
adverse effects on our economy generally speaking but that job but nonetheless i
think the only thing
to the democrats affect their bottom line is the also you know we bear we've
accepted that as well
there have to be a confession
the democratic are going to get their tax hike so what if the republicans
going to get out of this and i think nothing
now dot i dot i dot you know i'd i realized that that women should not let
up but known president won the election
on
leads
here's the other round is that
um if this is the hill that the democrats want to die on isn't easy way
uh... for them to actually not have to die on the cell
and that is absolutely absolutely
zero
need to do and mean every democrat in washington could say im going on
vacation for the next three weeks starting today
and when they come back they will have one
gift that you have to get this day do you need to do nothing
they can come back
forced the republicans to vote against uh... a tax cut
or 'em
anybody who is making or every dollar made under two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars
and and then did you know and of course republicans how could they vote against
that maybe they could but not that
an extreme
political cost to them
uh... one which would never ran dry to me because
on day one you suggested on day to you suggest that you keep suggesting it
every day
uh... so this is this is the this is a sort of the trek that's been set up here
it is that if this is the thing that's most important to them there's an easy
way to deal with it go on vacation
do-nothing spend the day in the next three weeks in the bahamas
are but i don't know where where people go on vacation
um...
but that's that's all they need to go
ab wire we should be
because you respect the entire argument
when they come back and you know the taxes have gone up everybody get to be a
tax cut her at that moment suddenly you know they can take and link arms and you
know strut around tangled accountant many taxes with the obama tax cuts
they're just you know did look what we've done for you now and of course
they have to sequester coming up and that's not you know that also is another
one like we're going to raise defense spending every carbon cap two jalan
melaka desperate an array of that we're going to be that that the other hand it
to recap the entire argument which was of course let you know the whole point
so
the idea that you know that you get a refund argument out there that going
over the cliff so-called cliff
will cause the market to be upset for five minutes and you know i suppose that
might happen but it hasn't happened up to now within any of the things though
you know i i think that that the market for a little less irrational
about this stephan people think so the the real the real leverage that the
republicans have because they have no leverage on the tax that
um... on the
do the raising of the tax because that's going to happen um... win fact we can
count on that happening if nobody does anything more that we can count on
having snow this year in winter hollow ring that getting a cold snap or just
about anything else there's nothing more
uh... definitive
then uh... those them getting those taxes the do real leverage seems to be
the debt ceiling
and
the other ones
supposedly from the administration in from the last
would be of course to avoid the sequester cuts on
uh... non discretionary spending
and to provide some measure of stimulus
or the economy
in the form specifically of things like extended unemployment benefit insurance
i mean a unemployment benefits
um... perhaps something to replace the so security uh... moratorium tax cut
some type of
uh... earned income uh... tax cut
uh... or just you good i guess if you when you are offer the uh...
offer the uh... the the package of tax cuts you could include that at that time
i don't see why you couldn't do that
um... you could also offered as part of the the tax cuts the unemployment
benefits
uh... so
you've got all that and in the only card at the republicans have
is to threaten to kill the economy again and i have to imagine
um... even though i don't put it past the republicans to to do it to vote
against the raising the debt ceiling
i have to imagine it's gonna commented even greater
uh... political all-cause than it did last time because one you don't have the
uh... the president
is not up for reelection so he can't sell for the implications of that
into we've already gone through this with the republicans
the fix that they wanted was the sequestered and now they don't even want
that
it seems to me
it's very hard to argue
that
there is a any reason for the democrats now to make a deal before january one
yet unico i mean i i i thought so for some time granite that feeling
issuing a sequester and although i think they are out there
and you know it would be very nice if we could tie all this happened and i feel
about the republicans come to the white house ok we understand the error of our
way for a lot of the election were changing completely we're going to be
good partners in the loyal opposition left-handed now
that's not happening and it's not going to happen elected stop pretending that's
going to happen
and moved beyond go ahead and reserve set that whole thing for that uh... that
tax cuts expire
and if republicans been tied to hold the debt ceiling hostage again
there have to come a point at which the democrats you know absolutely dayton now
we're not doing that specific because if they don't
this is national member and this will happen over and over and over again and
eric
you know i realized that they're trying to find legal weight for the president
to control the debt ceiling and all about that intel john bainer it's no
longer
um... speaker the house that's probably not going to happen so they think they
have to put it into this income political blank which is to say either
stop doing that
or you are going to hold you know be held responsible for the consequence
disappearing act otherwise but i think government is is
as encarta gridlock because that
let system or just go back a little bit is one of the things that supposedly
and uh... you know jonathan j_ doesn't make this argument
to explicitly
um... though he he
he
but he makes us are going to a certain extent he says
that the value
two democrats while you have
uh... the republicans sort of overpriced the value of
cutting medicare knowledge about the century privatizing
uh... the ages of sixty-five in sixty six
for people who are in medicare now
vp value to the democrats is that it will push for those people into opa
mckay
uh... presumably
and twenty fourteen and this is going to create an even stronger
more intimate support four o_ bomb a care because he's sixty five and sixty
six year olds
who basically been thrown over uh... the
uh... you know overboard
will be hanging on to obama care
as a life preserver literally um... in some instances
what's amazing about this argument is that
it's been shot down by a lot of other policy people
but for the obvious inconclusive obvious things that like
hey you know it's not quite clear what obama care is going to be
for at least five years because you have all these court cases
and you have all republican fed governors saying
we're not gonna pick up the slack with medicaid which is which would presumably
filled that gap
well yeah i need that
you know number one i mean that's just if absolutely abs
for to think that obama care is if in any position to be picking up the slack
on
that that particular population of of of of citizens because
it's not even in plain yet and and it's not just medicated balcony exchange if
you know a lot of the state to refuting the set those up info that will follow
the federal government we don't know how that's going to work
but nobody albina care doesn't really exist at the moment it's theoretical and
and a half allot things to workout it'd never even got to work at all you can't
take that particular population has sick people i've you know and older people
and and put them into something accomplished does indicate that chretien
in fact
it just it it it is and it to my god lied to me that when they were just a
couple years ago when we were debating whether or not to lower the medicare age
during the health care
uh... debate
and that came very close to christian lieberman put paradise on that but exact
that was actually a very furious discussion that within the health care
debate to lower it to be a two fifty five and now we're talking about
reconnecting enough that's insane
but what do you think that i think they can point to point out about that jeff
it give it a story of edgar
uh... sidebar but it is important
because the idea that help on the care that that medicare's going to morph into
obama care
is intrinsic
to to health care reform idea if they have many of the health care
walk uh... but i agree with that now that want to wear thoughtful believe
that it shouldn't happen until obama cared very well-established and then you
can and perhaps created medicare option within its so that people could buy in
there'd be a public option for everyone
but that always been part of it now what was interesting to me is over the
weekend i thought all the crisis in health care and a little kid for the
manhattan institute you know a conservative he was on mit romney team
he agrees with that he'd read the whole point of entitlement reform is twofold
uh... medicare into obama carefully you can see the outlines of that
and that etc and i think that those of us on the left here where arguing for
public option
we are set up to believe
pets obama care was going to eventually go the other way right can become a
single-payer a system of fronts or or at the very latest have a single-payer
uh... option inet and so that that kind of the underlying argument in this whole
thing going forward and people who at you know uh... uh... activist
c health-care activists
need to understand that but that's kind of the at steps that at the framework
that we're dealing with so that we just kind of step one in our long-term
process
of essentially privatizing more more of medicare
and making it in a
it basically turning it into no bomb a care is in uh... many respects when you
get aside from the the new regulations
uh... at least in terms of providing more
more access to health insurance becomes more of
a of formal of welfare in subsidies program
uh... where if you're certain percentage above poverty you get certain the
to certain subsidies now of course if there's a there's a bit of a hold
and we also know that if sixty five year olds in sixty six-year-old would have to
go into the private insurance market uh... even if they were to get subsidize
in some instances
their premiums that would
be extremely high intending heidi
uh... under obama care it would also create premium pressure for a
everybody's health insurance because you be adding
the sickest and all those people you can
do the insurance pool
exactly and in fact i don't know if people are coming out of time you know
sixty-five garden old
and i'm already um... looking you know when i do the calculations of my health
care which is the expense of the when you want to get into your fifties and
believe me that you can't even believe how high it goes
and it happens ghetto yearly basis here here here an unhealthy i don't have any
ongoing illnesses but
but one of the what i do the calculations for what's gonna happen for
me with with met with a bomb care
i'm not helped particularly biopharma care i mean i did get some of this
deregulation uh... benefits which is you know you get from
screening stopping you get
uh... you know pre-existing conditions and that sort of thing but it's far keep
removed
uh... under the calculations and that's probably not going to help me and aren't
far from being a rich person and that means that when i'm fifty four a sixty
five sixty-six sixty seventy
it's going to be even more expensive than it is right now and i will probably
still fall above the threshold or at the very end to the threshold
for thirteen economy for five fifty b_ thought to be
annexed marked smaller and heavy as you go up you can't get that when you're
getting up to maybe say forty thousand dollars in here which is in my view is
not
well thing
you're paying high premiums when your mileage and that is going to be refute
druggies sixty six in fifty seven-year-old into the next there
dealt a very high premiums are going to be paying and there'd be no middle-class
people are not talking about that you know the ultra rich they can pay for
their own health care i mean i'm talking about
now just average working today if you are probably lost their jobs on top of
it because they're you know they're all
though you know they tended to gary thank you thank you
all right so
tell me what you think the relevance of of them in if we just abolition that the
real leverage that the republicans have
and it seems like it but it's interesting to watch the sort of flow of
the narrative here that comes out of india we post absorbed and far too much
uh... political media think for
uh... people to sustain without uh... going slowly crazy
but um... the the narratives seem to be
maybe of
not this past week but the week before
that what it was starting to look like is that the republicans were
or in retreat on the tax uh... hikes and that they were going to create their
last stand at the debt as ceiling limit
the president came out or not the president but his spokesperson said
we're not going to you
used the fourteenth amendment uh... any power that is vested in the president of
the fourteenth amendment
uh... to circumvent congresses
approval
of the debt ceiling we're not going to use the platinum corinna
a mother trick which is uh... basically the treasury has it within its uh...
constitutional authority
to amidst aucoin is always is platinum for some reason uh... ye in any
denomination they want me to just deposit it in the the government's uh...
count when i can use that this is going to be
obey nurse problem but when you say it's painters problem it suddenly becomes all
of our problem there's no way digest
depict mainers problem
it seems we saw the next sort of twisted this which is
again that
the compromises that the administration has to make
give me your sense of of of of what's going on
with that allow is that the way that you would characterize the way this
argument's going
i think that exactly right when i mean one
in my view we need to be a two-step process we make a preliminary agreement
happened before january on the tax credits which
you know which one promised sheath maybe do medicare
and then i think that there's going to be a second
round at this
which will be around the dept feeling antiplatelet microphone belief if enough
people candy can disagree with that but i think the president still have in mind
to do with a great big deal
i think he still wants to do that and i think you keep this if they can take
care of you know it's like the rahman anybody seatbelt daredevil shock
doctrine the concept of don't let an opportunity go to waste to do all they
think the president has always wanted to do that and people argued that if they
are you know you'd expect to get something it from the time he came into
office and i think you want to do
eight big deal now it may have to be in q
part here
maybe even more they may have to take special security on could be taken that
off the table
more left
uh... that may have to be a third step on this but that's how i to be unfolding
and thought you know and left
and uh... you know that i would bet the wild card in hand earlier to get the
house and if there
bday conservatives in the house and i i get the feeling that they're you know
during the day gulf although uh... but if they don't
uh... then they may hold if tlf began and then there are the progressives in
the house and a fifty list too bad
uh... they might be the ones to hold it up on on the left and and and obama will
try and do some serious arm-twisting but i think that he has left
uh... clout they needed two years ago
i mean it's interesting because i think you know when you talk about this or the
outlines of how that two step process will go
and and mentioning that medicare will be dealt with later i mean this is the way
that you sorted a fuse the opposition to it right because
you you make a deal you make a deal ok quiz got there
the republicans to agree to raise taxes a little bit less than they would just
go up in a week anyways
uh... and in return we
are committed to doing something about medicare now it's very hard
or uh... people on the left arguable
you know again something that is so i was sort of like uh... uva a federal
but then two weeks later the argument you or the debt ceiling elbow week
weeded make a promise
to deal with medicare so we're locked into that ending so this is the way they
you do it i mean i i
every time i negotiate with my daughter this is what i did this because i know
i've got the upper hand in the ninth
just only is slightly uh... smarter than her will has a greater than
and others mars i can tell nash's always seven so into hold out hope are like a
republican exactly
and and this is the way that i do it you know i sort of drag your part of the way
and then i'd she forgets about where we started from
and i just reference to last a little deal that we made call you
over a a again to look at it
and um... huh
this is what is is makes me very nervous now
give your sense we have meant to closing
legacy i think so security has been at least pushed off the table of for the
time being
uh... we have nancy pelosi come up pretty strong saying that the medicare
raising the medicare eligibility age is a stupid idea
and then director
having appearance of this past weekend on one of the uh... weekend shows which
is in some ways being
how did as him coming out against the raising the medicare eligibility age two
but i i i think you made a point that he didn't really do
day i mean if interview which i hadn't
he had to come on in and then i went back in florida
windshield making contacted both played on a simple what are they going to do
with all these seniors fewer kicked off of medicare what will happen and we can
do you know when you're talking about that subject cranky ka
while no that isn't true mean even all the quake that make back from the
manhattan institute understood that week at the idea is to put those people under
obama care
so that you know that i don't know what that means i mean i have to be honest i
i i h
it may be needed nothing maybe *** durbin you know it's ka terribly
uninformed about these negotiations i doubt that compete at the front of them
but i think you know what do i know
but what i did various something there
that's very curious because they of course you know what the plan and and
intent idea that they're playing dumb about it makes me
realized
to me
and again regarded reading tea leaves
that sense to me that you gave definitely part of the negotiations the
fact that they thought sounded like idiots on that issue
i've made me realize that this is in play asides one of the explicit with
with this is the people in the stands
*** durbin is
not putting up a blanket uh...
opposition to the idea he simply saying like
there's a problem here and i don't know how we deal with that problem
and now the implication being that
well somebody came and he gave me a team
decent solution to that problem i could change my mind
he's saying listen what degree is arguing is that he's saying this with
full knowledge that there is a suppose it solution to this out there
and so he's inviting people to come to him
with this solution and and i think you know
this is the the thing that people have to understand as the way that that that
politicians work
they they allow them so they can set up a a promise that they know can be done
adele they set up a predicate here's the roadblock folks
and i'm just waiting for somebody to come and tell me how you get around this
robot hollow
that's convenient here comes that guy without route around the roadblock
so but let's talk also about the concept of a
uh... a trial balloon
and all in the concept of a
of of
in in context of this sort of hippie punching that is going on because
i want people really to understand and and and i ending than many people i
think you understand this but it but it but i wanna make sure that everybody
understands this that
the idea of of this concept of a trial balloon and what's posta happen
in what the people who favor the idea of the trial balloon
what they're doing to make sure that people don't uh... fire there slingshots
at that balloon in sync
right well you know manny eclectic everybody
you know defined it briefly a trial believe just within the next to the
negotiation when
someone put out the rumor that something is being considered
eat before that express purpose dot of gaining gauging reaction
and um...
you know either that or you know trying to push he narrative
in the press i think that's a big part of it
to try to come to expect in this particular thing prior to it actually
being an apt
you don't know where that is but blue you know one of the things that happened
in these trial balloons is that
uh... those of us to object
which were i can't enter our responsibility i don't know if they're
filling out medicare under in the room with painter and obama
but when i hear it uh... it might happen
i'm going to scream loudly and and perhaps somewhere it really
when opposition
because i think that that
event that you know i think carrying citizens someone who it had to do you
know feel like i have a personal as well as uh...
at the as yet personal particular uh... that i know i think we should jack and i
think that even if you grant
the democrats
you know to having our best interest at heart
eat fresh to object because they need to have the you know that uh... that the
backing
if they're trying to avoid doing something terrible they need to be able
to go to john bantu hey you know you got to keep party but look at that got all
these liberal too are losing their mind over the fact can't do it
so this is an important role that we play in this now
what happens on allison
unlike and uh... the on the right
where they kind of you know have a have built in respect for their base in maybe
a third of it you know
it gave me a walk very carefully when this happened on our flat you can hear
this
tremendous uh... prize from the contrast send me in the political establishment
trying to marginalized voices
like minor or your family or any other added to the fact here who are screaming
loudly intake out don't because really that's just crazy why are you doing that
you know you need to it
that you know just traffic administration ending
it whatever now you know my personal feeling is that these are not naive
people and that for the most part they're doing that because i think we're
trying to establish
and you know an acceptable compromise
and so i fight back *** that and perhaps i_q_ it in a in a somewhat read
fashion at times but i think it's important to ensure that people
understand that their affair
bear the consequences to floating i_d_f_ like that that are uh... unacceptable to
a large portion of the democratic party
well first let me say that uh... you're one of the most lay people in
uh... instant secondly the but what i really enjoy as
we watch this back-and-forth
lot of it is played out between like uh... day today in a jonathan shaped in
um... yourself
interns and
you see guys like a glazes and uh...
jonathan common at the new republic a serb weighing in on the on the on the
margins to this
and on list serves uh... across the
through the center center left
the spectrum
the uh... that my favorite is is that you've got
as a client and jonathan che reporting
reporting out right there just reporting
this is this is my favorite aspect of this and this is what we became so clear
to me when i was when we were to do and i i had that exchange with uh... donahue
uh... a people's
they they keep
jumping back and forth between reporting and advocating reporting and advocating
and like i'm not saying i'm in favor of this although i can see it's merits
i'm just reporting that the seems to be happening
uh... and at the same time they say
there are going to say like
what why are you reacting to this it's hasn't happened there's no reason to
believe it's happening you're crazy
to be screaming about something that hasn't happened although it's yes
inserted a reporter to but why are you getting so worked up about a reporter to
people should understand that these are different levels of arguing in favor of
that what happening
writing a simpler way of say arcadia and
arguing in favor of it the keeping their distance from cut that argument
and you know i mean if they are you know if we defeat the people who have to show
on t_v_ to will bring on advocate after advocate for a particular position
and then say well you know i'm not taking a profession i'm going well you
know you do book shallow angle scrapbooks brockamp landfill a different
position and then it happens all the time right
so you have taught you and your constantly kinda coming up against that
appear and outside
commentator someone who would have been part of the political establishment and
you know there is that there the whole kind of social aspect of this theirs
you have a friend that everybody there is this
cantina that makes it very difficult for people who live with the map
t_b_
uh... aggressive in this
situation which is why
i thought we had uh... department there
you know i don't i'd lived in l_a_ and i don't care
welfare but i think
and uh... you know it so i think that there is that's one of the values of
having outside uh... people cookin
in it sort of
brush up against that and you know push back on that program at nom nom literate
and i do my my sense is that this is the
perfect example of him because we were playing in what is a
i think a very unique uh...
to the following the re-election of president obama
which is in a very unique position in terms of being able to
to agitate for this stuff in in unshackled fashion because the funny
thing is is that
have this we have this
arguing and i think it could have played out in this way but let's say the same
argument the same debate played out in september
um...
people like you are read the acts
by people who saw this is weakening the president
and it was you know and it's so we would be attacked by an entirely different
coord of people now
um... is which i don't see
happening to the same extent i mean
the we would be p-labeled i guess fire backers
which you know you know it was not a term i was even remotely aware of that i
think it was so i filled out for haiti's it said something that was in some way
critical of the president
and then all the sudden my twitter feed came up with all these terms that i was
like a
mattimoe dot wrong there
or prada molar primo probably handout you know that i hadn't heard any of
these before
and that seems to be of
it's early
you don't see that as much because i think there's an understanding ago carey
other prizes now elected he cannot be uh... un-elected and there's a a just a
to the extent that there is any uh...
elect moral implications to this it's all coming essentially from the house
and for the most part
they can't run on cutting medicare
they can plan on cutting social and economic
certificate can't right
i mean you know i think i mean this is a bizarre thing to me that that anyone
would think that that would be a
uh... you know a good thing to run on n_p_r_'s but you're right i gave it a
different if there is a different phenomenon happening here where back q
eight status quo
for obama was originally elected it wages
that the battle now teamster battle lines seems to be more uh... constant
rated on you know on the liberal progressive side
against a political establishment and that is let you know i think the
more
i think i should get that for the philanthropic alliance really are
it before they close personal loyalty and fear of romney and god knows what
else but now if they were talking about it the other fellas topical dividing
defied added really exists within the democratic party yes and i'm frankly i
uh... i mean this is one of the
this is
this was one of my affirmative arguments as to why you will
we want uh... president obama i mean aside from the implications of romney is
that
this makes it very very clear
uh... as to where these lines are drawn and it also i believe enhances in i
wanna get your take on this
uh... in hints is the power
of progressives
pushing back very strongly and i think it makes
frankly what you do
um... uh... that much more
important because is
it is
of boys out there when these trial balloons go up
this is a trial balloon for the left it's not for the right
and and uh... i don't think it's you know for the establishment of course
they want to cut so scattered medicare and social your t
is to see
help how much can we get away with it
and it's a moments like this
in particularly because we're talking about influence with with house members
uh... you know
we're actually like you know off thousand people in your district in ma
big difference if you're running for congress this is where i think our power
increases and our ability to scream and yell about stuff increases dramatically
yet even in terms of the precedent and people will disagree with that thank you
and i talked about that before
that that you know president obama is now a huge no longer going to bring for
anything ever in his life again so he is in the process of establishing his
legacy in them and that is going to depend in large part
on unfit liberal uh... and he he cannot he will never be extolled by the right
sit as a great president if that's what he cares about
uh... so at this point he has eight different
he had a different relationship with a says well if not quite
that came there he needs something from for months now in a way to that he
didn't know i don't know how powerful that is the maybe a dozen powerful it
all but i do think that exist
and as far as the house members are concerned that huge and that is the one
place
where the work that we've been doing over the past few years unabated in
working on the house of representatives many groups from credo to move on to my
group of america
we have been working very very hard to have an influence on the house
progressive crockett and i don't know if you've noticed but this time
you've got at the very least i mean it's not everything and i don't know how to
run these people are going to be
but you've got to tell us sent out there you've got robert hall the out there
you've got uh... you know gary members of the peter defazio metrics image of
the progressive caucus out there making the public argument for the progressive
side which is no cuts they are actually saying that next that's different than
it was last time i mean there were few but this kind of people much more
systematic uh... kind of program and they're out there doing that and all of
these people now nam believe me they do now
that if they vote against them
if they do there will be repercussions on the left and they have are much will
have a much more direct
and very clear
uh... implied defend then we do with the president frank stanton or even the
planet but amin so i think that the stakes were very much different than t
fact yes well they'd be as always uh... tremendous pleasure talking about this
stuff uh...
we will uh... we'll be back in touch of
hopefully nothing will happen ah... between now and january first
uh... but uh... but we shall see and then we will talk about uh...
and the implications of of what did happen or
of what we anticipate happening uh... soon enough
began the digby from the blog
hullabaloo acted these blog dot block spot dot com always a pleasure