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alan hoffman's with us he's one of the two authors of we're with nobody along
with michael rich eddie and are great to talk to you aline i looked at the book
it's it's really fascinating and we're with nobody comes from the question you
get after when you do opposition research
you show up out of court house arrest some other place and people asking who
are you with when you start asking them for documents and you say were with
nobody is that basically the backstory from that is the actor you know
everybody wants to know what you're up to
he walked in and some elected officials and everyone knows and you're asking for
is taxed history and this and that
and so that one uh... you know where where you're coming from and what you're
doing it but basically just being nosy that sometimes there are also trying to
throw some obstacles in your packet
when you say there was nobody
because you don't have to be with anybody
it pretty much is that a lot of questioning
so it'll give us a sense of how this works to do an opposition researcher is
usually hired by one candidate our party to find out information dirt so to speak
on either the candidates they're running against or on the other party is that
how it works somebody confidence as we need to hurt bond this other person
did you think it's very specific you know they're gonna it well i think
somebody's running for congress
they uh... they hara s basically to find that everything there is to know
about their opponent and usually about themselves as well because there's
somebody on the other side in the same thing we're doing
and they want to know what they're finding out how they might be attacked
so
but the another way that we're kind of with no one is that uh...
even though we generally work for democratic campaigns we have to be
completely objective in our assessments of these candidates and there's no room
for yes man in opposition research so we don't win any popularity contests one
week
come in and say this is what we found a new which in some cases is worse than
what we found on the other guy
but it's just sits necessary
are most do you find that most opposition researchers like you tend to
work for one party or or you know our son just kind of paid mercenaries
building up dirt on anybody
and help campaigns on either side of the they tend to be partisan
they tend to be partisan just because that's your network
and then you know i count
i'm a democrat
nine you know my that's that's usually lab how i'll vote but
but we have worked for public ans of when that we're working again sir public
complaints a republican primary will will work for a republican not very
often because
you don't have the same level of credibility informal suspicious of you
and so
primarily most people stay with one party but the truth is
who do the same thing if we were on the other side i mean our our work wouldn't
change it would just be who ended up getting our reports
so talk about showing up somewhere and the reaction from whoever you're talking
to being you know there was just somebody else you hear asking basically
the same question is that comment
it so i would say it's common it's happened many many times but
it's very terrible i think that our speakers we're you know
first of all you know that you're on the same trail you know you're drifting
through these little towns in
no one knows you're there
but then you realize that someone else there may be winnie reading in the
restaurant that night
you know the guy or the woman is that these are across the room yet and she's
years is there in the same day
and so uh... it's kind of exciting to us when we know that this is their their
competition is the is out there and inspires us i guess a little bit to work
a little harder
but uh... we've always wanted to just sit down and have a beer with the with
one of these people because
would just be interesting to hear you know if their experiences were the same
as ours
what type of stuff are usually looking for another words
you might go to a courthouse to see if there's arrest records are court
documentary looking for people's taxes to find
what exactly i mean what types of documents do you look for
well you know as we say in the book one of the uh... art are sort of ut
basic
theory is that no one is totally unless proven otherwise so
i mean and that's a negative view but that's the way we have to approach it
that you've got approved was that your worthy to lead
so we're looking for anything
indicates unfit instantly whether it's
you have a pager taxes
you do you have a
voted regularly which is surprisingly common
or you've been involved in a lawsuit that is is would indicate how you might
lee anything that that which held voters
what kind of a leader you would be so it really runs the gamut and but it all has
to be documented so it all has to be public record stalin ultimately
without giving any names what is the that the most incredible are shocking
thing you've uncovered that never made it out into mainstream media about a
candidate people might be familiar with something that just you found that you
you presented it
and and fortunately i guess from the point of view of the candidate never
made it out are there really intense things
yes absolutely we found
on one candidate uh... i've uh... had been uart allegations of child
molestation
and
you know we couldn't documented because the police records had disappeared but
we found that sort of an obscure newspaper article in which someone had
questioned him about it
never received any any any real attention in the media remarkably
and the police records have disappeared in both of the witnesses have been
murdered and we came this to her
archana did in he was like i want to have anything to do with this you know
and it never came out in the guideline
and another case while you know we that we finally got it
you know really don't go back
the into some more than maybe ten years and i can look at
when they were in high school you know everybody does things when they're in
high school and
and doesn't really matter now well occasionally it does and so we found
this one guy that had
uh... had thrown a pipe bomb at a homecoming float when he was in high
school well
that mattered still and so we
it unfortunately here's our car
fifteen and so we actually uh... we told him
but we've found a few other things that we found it
and he ended up another ex so
you know you found it pretty much all over the place while anything on rick
santorum you want to reveal
now we haven't done it sent or maybe you know it's interesting
may
you wonder is someone just holding back because he is the u_n_'s has really
done beliefs or it is eerily clean you know i had a because this is just in
this
opposition research free for all this this republican
presidential primary
and and he is i'd guess gotten off the lightest so far and you just wonder like
archit someone just holding on to the work is done done already
to just wanted to just holding it for the right moment or if there really is
nothing there
we're speaking of course with alan hoffman the book is we're with nobody
talk a little bit about of some of these of the couple different things from the
book i want to ask you about one strategy if employees tries to stifle
the request
you go silent and played down what does that say but etc that's one of michael
late-night partners favorite ploys stomped
basically you know that we watched them that down
ever civil servants everyday you know that and then trying to get records and
whether they just don't wanna worker going to help on whatever
they had all these colours where they can basically just sort of make you feel
like you're asking for something unreasonable and we've just found that
if you just stand that they say well you know this is going to be difficult to
find it in the archives it's gonna take
three days to to retrieve it it's going across the dark age this in that
and we just embarrasses
weight and then back to their own pay run their course and then they say are
you willing to do that and we say yes proceed
but you know we've just gotten cat
a little bit customs
two people trying to
toward us whether they're doing it because they're on the side of the
candidate were researching or just because they don't want to do the work
it doesn't make a difference was not leaving until we get it
and that was my last question for the documents you're usually looking for
sp are you actually entitled to these documents i mean what the letter of of
the law on a lot of the stuff does it depend on someone bending the rules to
give you the documents what what what's the big actually go status miller and
the law varies from state to state
but the basque majority up of documents are public records
you know in some states they won't let you look at for example somebody's voter
registration or they may not be when you look at
their their driver's license registration dairies but but but but
that's majority anyone can walk in there and ask for these records and get them
that's one of the beauties of living in america
i write the book is we're with nobody we've been speaking with alan hoffman i
recommend the book really a pleasure to speak with you allen
send it back to you