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>WELCOME TO TIME FOR HOPE, A FAITH BASED MENTAL HEALTH
PROGRAM. JOIN CERTIFIED CLINICAL MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELOR AND
CHRISTIAN PSYCHOTHERAPIST, DR. FREDA CREWS, AND HER GUESTS AS
THEY DISCUSS REAL-LIFE ISSUES AND OFFER EXPERT CLINICAL ADVICE
AND SOLID BIBLICAL APPLICATION FOR ANY AND ALL LIFE SITUATIONS.
NOW HERE'S YOUR HOST OF TIME FOR HOPE, DR. FREDA CREWS.
>THANKS FOR JOINING ME AND MY GUEST FOR TODAY AUTHOR,
CHRISTIAN APOLOGIST AND PRESIDENT OF THE CHRISTIAN
RESEARCH INSTITUTE HANK HANEGRAAFF. THROUGH HIS LIVE
CALL IN RADIO BROADCAST BIBLE ANSWER MAN HANK EQUIPS
CHRISTIANS TO READ THE BIBLE FOR ALL IT'S WORTH, ANSWERS
QUESTIONS ON THE BASIS OF CAREFUL RESEARCH AND SOUND
REASONING PLUS INTERVIEWS TODAY'S MOST SIGNIFICANT
LEADERS, APOLOGISTS AND THINKERS. I HAVE THE PRIVILEGE
TODAY AND NEXT WEEK OF DOING THE INTERVIEWING AS WE DISCUSS
HANK'S BOOK TITLED AFTERLIFE WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
HEAVEN THE HEREAFTER AND NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. I CAN ASSURE
YOU THAT YOU WILL WANT TO STAY WITH US.
>AND HANK IT'S GREAT HAVING YOU ON TIME FOR HOPE.
>WELL THANK YOU IT'S GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.
>ACTUALLY YOU'RE SO WELL-KNOWN UNTIL I'M WONDERING WHEN I ASKED
IF WE WERE GOING TO GET TO HAVE YOU ON TIME FOR HOPE, BUT IT'S A
GREAT PRIVILEGE.
>WELL IT'S REALLY NICE TO BE WITH YOU.
>AND IT'S ALSO GOOD THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO COME SO FAR.
>A FAIRLY SHORT DRIVE.
>YES SO MANY OF MY GUESTS HAVE TO COME FROM CALIFORNIA YOU KNOW
OTHER GREAT DISTANCES AND SO FORTH, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT DOWN THE
ROAD IN CHARLOTTE.
>INDEED.
>YES CHARLOTTE IS A GREAT CITY ISN'T IT?
>IT IS. I HAVE 12 CHILDREN AND WE HAVE ENJOYED RAISING OUR
CHILDREN IN CHARLOTTE OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.
>MY SON LOOKED UP SOME INFORMATION ON YOU YESTERDAY HE
WAS AT LUNCH AND NOTICED THAT YOU HAD I THINK IT WAS 10
CHILDREN THE LAST COUNT.
>WE HAVE 12 YES.
>YOU HAVE 12. WHAT ARE THEIR AGES?
>WHILE THE YOUNGEST IS 9 AND THE OLDEST IS 39.
>OOO THAT'S QUITE A RANGE, QUITE A RANGE. BUT ANYWAY AGAIN IT'S
GOOD TO HAVE YOU AND YOU'VE WRITTEN ON A VERY SOMBER
SOBERING SUBJECT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE WAY YOU START OFF THE
INTRODUCTION, SOMEDAY YOU WILL DIE. THEN WHAT? ISN'T IT FUNNY
THAT WE COME INTO THE WORLD AND THAT'S ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS
THAT WE BECOME CONSCIOUS OF?
>YES IT'S INCREDIBLE WHEN A WOMAN GIVES BIRTH SHE GIVES
BIRTH TO A BODY SOUL UNITY. SHE DOESN'T JUST GIVE BIRTH TO A
BODY BUT A BODY SOUL UNITY AND AT DEATH THERE'S AN UNNATURAL
RENDING OF BODY AND SOUL. THE BODY GOES BACK TO THE GROUND,
IT'S BURIED BUT THE SOUL ABSENT THE BODY IS PRESENT WITH THE
LORD AND JESUS GIVES A BEAUTIFUL PICTURE OF THAT IN LUKE CHAPTER
16 WHERE THERE IS A BEGGAR WHO DIES AND THE ANGELS CARRY HIM TO
ABRAHAM'S *** AND THEN THE TEXT TELLS US IN THE WORDS OF
JESUS THAT HE IS COMFORTED THERE. MY DAD DIED IN 1997 AND
THAT'S WHAT HE'S EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. HE'S ABSENT THE BODY,
HE'S PRESENT WITH THE LORD, HE'S ENJOYING FELLOWSHIP WITH THE ONE
WHO KNIT HIM TOGETHER IN HIS MOTHER'S WOMB. BUT THE GREATEST
OF ALL EVENTUALITIES IS GOING TO COME WHEN JESUS APPEARS THE
SECOND TIME AND THEN THE SOUL RETURNS TO THE BODY AND THE BODY
IS RESURRECTED IMMORTAL, IMPERISHABLE, INCORRUPTIBLE.
>THAT'S OUR HOPE ISN'T IT?
>IT IS AND YOU KNOW WE HAVE IN NATURE A BEAUTIFUL ANALOGY FOR
WHAT HAPPENS TO US. A BUTTERFLY ONCE IS A CATERPILLAR AND THEN
IT WEAVES A CHRYSALIS. A CHRYSALIS IS LIKE A CASKET AND
THERE ITS CONSTITUENT PARTS EVOLVE INTO A MYSTERIOUS
MOLECULAR MIXTURE AND OUT OF THAT MIXTURE COMES AN ALTOGETHER
OTHER BEING. IT'S THE SAME PHYSICALLY BUT IT'S DIFFERENT
ORGANIZATIONALLY AND THAT IS HOW IT WILL BE WITH US. THE DNA THAT
MAKES YOU YOU IS THE DNA THAT WILL MAKE YOU YOU FOR ALL
ETERNITY BUT THAT DNA WILL BE RESURRECTED IMMORTAL,
IMPERISHABLE, INCORRUPTIBLE. IT WILL BE CHANGED FIRST
CORINTHIANS 15 SAYS IN A MOMENT IN A TWINKLING OF AN EYE. SO THE
CHRISTIAN FAITH IS NOT PLATONIC IT'S VERY PHYSICAL. OUR HOPE IS
IN THE PHYSICAL RESURRECTION JUST AS CHRIST ROSE PHYSICALLY
WE TOO WILL RISE PHYSICALLY.
>I THOUGHT THAT WAS ONE OF THE BEST ANSWERS FROM THE ANSWER MAN
THAT I FOUND IN YOUR BOOK THAT I HAD OFTEN WONDERED ABOUT, ABOUT
GOD BRINGING THE BODY AND SOUL BACK TOGETHER. AND TO THINK OF
IT, ESPECIALLY WHEN A BODY HAS BEEN CREMATED OR SO FORTH, YOU
KNOW IT TAKES A LOT TO BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN AND WILL DO THAT.
BUT WHEN YOU BROUGHT IN ABOUT THAT DNA THEN IT MADE A LOT OF
SENSE THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH GOD ANYWAY BUT
FOR SOME REASON OR OTHER IT MADE MORE SENSE TO ME.
>YES IT'S THE BLUEPRINT AND SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT CREMATION
OR PEOPLE THAT HAVE DIED A LONG TIME AGO IT'S NOT THAT GOD
RECESSITATES EVERY ATOM IT'S THAT THERE'S CONTINUITY BETWEEN
THE BODY THAT WAS AND THE BODY THAT WILL BE. YOU SEE THE THING
ABOUT THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER FOR EXAMPLE; IT'S ALWAYS THE
MISSISSIPPI RIVER ALTHOUGH DIFFERENT WATER IS FLOWING
THROUGH IT THROUGH IN A CONTINUUM. BUT IT'S THE
MISSISSIPPI RIVER BECAUSE THERE'S CONTINUITY BETWEEN THE
RIVERBED AND THE WATER AND SO IT WILL BE WITH OUR BODIES. OUR
BODIES WILL BE RESURRECTED IN THE SENSE THAT THEY WILL BE WHAT
THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN IF SIN HAD NEVER ENTERED THE WORLD. SO
YOU'LL BE THE PERFECT YOU AND I'LL BE THE PERFECT ME WHICH IS
TO SAY OUR DNA WILL FORM TO COMPLETE PERFECTION AND ALWAYS
BE IN THAT STATE OF COMPLETE PERFECTION BECAUSE THERE'S NO
DEVOLUTION THAT TAKES PLACE WHEN THE CURSE IS REMOVED.
>BEAUTIFUL. IT MAKES ME THINK ABOUT THESE ABORTED BABIES AND
OF COURSE YOU HAD NOT TAKEN THAT UP IN YOUR BOOK BUT IF THEY'RE
THAT FAR ALONG AS IT WERE SOON AFTER THEY ARE CONCEIVED THEN
THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A SOUL THAT EXISTS FOREVER?
>YES ABSOLUTELY BECAUSE THE BABY ITSELF, A CONCEPTUS HAS FULL
PERSONHOOD FROM THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION. IT DOESN'T HAVE A
FULLY DEVELOPED PERSONALITY BUT IT HAS FULL PERSONHOOD. THAT
MEANS AGAIN WHEN A WOMAN GIVES BIRTH SHE DOESN'T GIVE BIRTH TO
ONLY A BODY BUT A BODY SOUL UNITY. SO WHAT HAPPENS THEN IS
THAT BODY SOUL UNITY WHICH DID NOT HAVE A TIME OF DEVELOPMENT
IN THIS TIME SPACE CONTINUUM WILL IN THE NEW HEAVENS AND THE
NEW EARTH DEVELOP TO WHAT THAT PERSON WOULD HAVE BEEN IF THEY
HADN'T BEEN ABORTED.
>I KNOW I LOST TWO BABIES AND SO I'LL BE SEEING TWO BABIES I'VE
NEVER SEEN WHEN I GET TO HEAVEN.
>ABSOLUTELY I MEAN THAT'S THE HOPE.
>WILL THEY BE ADULTS, CHILDREN?
>THEY WILL DEVELOP TO WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN HAD SIN NEVER
ENTERED THE WORLD SO THEY WILL DEVELOP TO THE FLOWER. YOU THINK
ABOUT A TULIP BULB AND THAT TULIP BULB OPENING UP TO
COMPLETE PERFECTION BUT NEVER DEVOLVING. THAT IS HOW IT WILL
BE WITH HUMANITY. ACCORDING TO A BIBLICAL WORLDVIEW WE ARE GOING
TO DEVELOP TO COMPLETE PERFECTION WITHOUT ANY
DEVOLUTION BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE IN THE NEW HEAVENS OR THE NEW
EARTH, WE DON'T HAVE THE SECOND LAW OF THERMAL DYNAMICS SO
THERE'S NOT ENTROPY, THERE'S NOT THE WINDING DOWN OR THE
DEVOLUTION OF THE BODY. YOU AND I ARE WEARING OUT. I MEAN THE
DEATH RATE IS ONE PER PERSON; WE'RE ALL GOING TO FACE IT. BUT
IN THE NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH WE WILL BE RESURRECTED
IMMORTAL, IMPERISHABLE, INCORRUPTIBLE VERY MUCH LIKE
JESUS CHRIST ROSE. JESUS CHRIST IS THE EARNEST OF OUR
RESURRECTION. IF WE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE TOMB WHEN HE ROSE
FROM THE DEAD WE WOULD HAVE SEEN DUST FLY OFF THE VERY SLAB ON
WHICH HE LAY. SO OUR BELIEF IN A BIBLICAL WORLDVIEW IS THE BODILY
RESURRECTION. BY THE WAY THAT'S WHY WE BURY AS OPPOSED TO
CREMATE. GOD CAN RAISE THE CREMATED BUT CREMATION DOESN'T
POINT TO RESURRECTION. BURIAL POINTS TO RESURRECTION. IT'S AN
OBJECT LESSON. SO GOD USES PHYSICALLY, EMPIRICALLY
PERCEPTIBLE EVENTS TO GIVE US A FORETASTE OF ETERNAL REALITIES.
>BEAUTIFUL, JUST BEAUTIFUL AND PRODUCES SUCH JOY. AND I KNOW I
WAS REFLECTING SHORTLY AFTER MY HUSBAND'S DEATH AND I WAS
LOOKING OUT AT THE MOUNTAINS AND SITTING THERE REFLECTING AND
THINKING ABOUT WHERE HE WAS AND WHAT HE MIGHT BE DOING AND WHAT
LIFE WOULD BE LIKE WHERE HE IS AND YOU'VE ANSWERED A LOT OF
THAT IN YOUR BOOK BY THE WAY. BUT I WAS CARRIED AWAY WITH A
SENSE OF LOVE, JOY AND PEACE. THAT'S WHAT I CAME UP WITH. THAT
IF NOTHING ELSE HE WAS IN A PLACE WHERE HE WAS EXPERIENCING
LOVE, JOY AND PEACE. IT'S A STATE OF BEING NOT SO MUCH A
PLACE AND YOU KIND OF BRING THAT OUT IN YOUR BOOK. AREN'T I KIND
OF ON TARGET HERE?
>YES ABSOLUTELY BECAUSE THERE'S LIFE AFTER LIFE BUT THERE'S ALSO
LIFE AFTER LIFE AFTER LIFE. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS WHEN YOU
DIE NOW, SO MY DAD DIED IN 1997 AS A CLASSIC CASE IN POINT.
ABSENT FROM THE BODY PRESENT WITH THE LORD. BUT WHEN JESUS
APPEARS A SECOND TIME THEN HE WILL HAVE LIFE AFTER LIFE AFTER
LIFE. IN OTHER WORDS THE SOUL WILL THEN RETURN TO A
RESURRECTED BODY. BUT NOW HE IS EXPERIENCING FELLOWSHIP WITH THE
LORD WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE CREATED FOR. WHEN WE WERE
CREATED WE WERE CREATED WITH THE AMAGODAY OR THE IMAGE OF GOD
WHICH WAS TARNISHED IN THE FALL BUT IT WILL BE ABSOLUTELY
RESTORED IN THE FOREVER SO THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO ENJOY
FELLOWSHIP WITH THE LORD, THE VERY THING THAT WE WERE CREATED
FOR.
>ULTIMATELY THERE WILL BE THE BODY AND SOUL JOIN. BUT YOU'VE
GOT THIS INTERIM PERIOD WHERE I THINK IT'S NOWHERENESS YOU REFER
TO IT.
>A SOUL IS NONPHYSICAL SO IT DOESN'T HAVE EXTENSION IN SPACE.
IT DOESN'T HAVE AWARENESS BUT IT DOES HAVE AWARENESS SO IT IS
ENJOYING FELLOWSHIP WITH THE LORD BUT THAT SOUL ONE DAY WILL
BE RESTORED TO A PHYSICALLY RESURRECTED BODY. THAT'S THE
HOPE OF THE BELIEVER AS CHRIST ROSE WE TOO WILL RISE. THAT'S
WHAT ANIMATED CHRISTIANS TO BE ABLE TO TURN AN EMPIRE UPSIDE
DOWN. THEY KNEW THAT SOMEONE COULD KILL THEM PHYSICALLY BUT
THEY WOULD LIVE FOREVER.
>THE LORD SAID THAT HE SAID DON'T WORRY ABOUT THOSE THAT CAN
TAKE, DESTROY THE BODY. WORRY ABOUT THOSE THAT COULD DESTROY
THE SOUL.
>WELL THE BODY AND SOUL IN HELL YES.
>YES BOTH BODY AND SOUL IN HELL SO WHEN I THINK ABOUT THAT
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A TRANSITIONAL HEAVEN WHICH I'VE
ALWAYS BEEN TAUGHT ON AND IT'S STUCK IN MY BRAIN ABOUT IT BEING
PARADISE STUCK OFF SOMEWHERE AWAY FROM HEAVEN WHEREIN WE TAKE
ON A TEMPORARY BODY. I DON'T KNOW WHERE ALL OF THIS CAME
FROM. YOU TOOK THAT UP REALLY GOOD BY THE WAY. AND I'VE OFTEN
WONDERED ABOUT THAT YOU KNOW SO I THINK I'M BUYING INTO WHAT YOU
TEACH RATHER THAN WHAT I HAVE BEEN TAUGHT AND PROBABLY MOST OF
OUR VIEWERS HAVE BEEN TAUGHT. THEY SAY PAUL TAUGHT THAT WE
TAKE ON AN INTERIM BODY OF SOME KIND BETWEEN THE TIME WE DIE AND
THE TIME CHRIST RETURNS AND WRAPS EVERYTHING UP AND WE GET
OUR FOREVER BODY AND OUR BODY AND SOUL ARE REUNITED AND SO
FORTH. SO AGAIN I'VE UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IN YOUR BOOK.
>YES AND YOU HAVE TO TEST ALL THINGS IN LIGHT OF SCRIPTURE AND
HOLD FAST TO THE GOOD.
>YES HOLD FAST TO THE GOOD. THEY'RE TELLING ME IT'S TIME FOR
A BREAK AND WE'LL COME BACK AND PICK UP WITH SOME MORE OF THESE
ANSWERS FROM YOU. AND IT IS TIME FOR A BREAK AND WE'LL BE RIGHT
BACK.
>A PERSON DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN
HEAVEN. WHEN A LOVED ONE PASSES AWAY, MOST PEOPLE ASSUME THEY
HAVE GONE TO HEAVEN. OF COURSE, BELIEVING THAT THEY HAVE GONE TO
A BETTER PLACE HELPS EASE THE GRIEF OF LOSS. NEW YORK MAGAZINE
CONTRIBUTING EDITOR AND WASHINGTON POST RELIGION
REPORTER LISA MILLER, AUTHOR OF A BOOK TITLED: HEAVEN: OUR
ENDURING FASCINATION WITH THE AFTERLIFE BELIEVES THAT THE URGE
FOR HEAVEN IS UNIVERSAL AND THIS COMES FROM KNOWING THAT SOONER
OR LATER OUR LIFE WILL END. AND SHERWIN B. NULAND, AUTHOR OF HOW
WE DIE: REFLECTIONS ON LIFE'S FINAL CHAPTER, RELATES "SO
ESSENTIALLY WE HAVE TO CONVINCE OURSELVES THAT THERE IS AN
AFTERLIFE. EVEN THOSE OF US WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN ONE SNEAKINGLY
WISH THERE WAS ONE." ACCORDING TO A RECENT SURVEY BY THE TRUE
LIFE IN GOD FOUNDATION 80 PERCENT OF AMERICANS BELIEVE IN
HEAVEN. TO BELIEVE THERE IS A HEAVEN REQUIRES THAT WE BELIEVE
IN LIFE AFTER DEATH. ALSO, TO BELIEVE IN A LITERAL HEAVEN
REQUIRES BELIEVING IN A SUPREME BEING THAT HAS DESIGNED SUCH A
PLACE. I SUSPECT SOME PERSONS THAT BELIEVE IN HEAVEN HAVE NOT
THOUGHT MUCH ABOUT WHO CREATED SUCH A PLACE. ONCE THE REALITY
THAT HEAVEN DIDN'T BUILD ITSELF IS ACCEPTED THEN ONE MUST
CONFRONT THE QUESTION OF WHO DID PREPARE SUCH A PLACE FOR US TO
INHABIT AFTER THIS LIFE. THE HOLY BIBLE HAS THE ANSWER TO
THIS QUESTION. THE FIRST SCRIPTURE IN GENESIS, THE FIRST
BOOK OF THE BIBLE RECORDS, "IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE
HEAVENS AND THE EARTH." SO, IF GOD CREATED HEAVEN, THEN THAT
GIVES HIM THE RIGHT TO DECIDE HOW WE GET TO LIVE THERE WITH
HIM FOREVER - RIGHT? JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF THE CREATOR
GOD, KNEW A LOT ABOUT HEAVEN BECAUSE HE HAD LIVED THERE WITH
HIS FATHER FROM PAST ETERNITY. HE ALSO KNEW HOW WE CAN GO TO
HEAVEN, AND SHARED THIS INFORMATION WITH HIS FAITHFUL
DISCIPLES AS HE WAS PREPARING TO RETURN TO HIS HEAVENLY HOME. WE
READ IN THE GOSPEL OF JOHN, CHAPER 14:1-6, "'DO NOT LET YOUR
HEARTS BE TROUBLED. TRUST IN GOD, TRUST ALSO IN ME. IN MY
FATHER'S HOUSE ARE MANY ROOMS...I AM GOING THERE TO
PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU (DISCIPLES)..." DOUBTING THOMAS
"...SAID TO HIM, 'LORD, WE DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING, SO HOW
CAN WE KNOW THE WAY. JESUS ANSWERED, 'I AM THE WAY...'"
EVERYONE IS NOT GOING TO HEAVEN WHEN THEY DIE - ONLY THOSE WHOSE
PASSPORT IS STAMPED WITH THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST (ROM
9:25).
GUEST FOR TODAY IS HANK HANEGRAAFF AND WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT HIS BOOK AFTERLIFE. AND HANK YOU USED THE BUTTERFLY AS
AN ILLUSTRATION IN YOUR BOOK AND I'VE USED IT ACROSS THIS NATION
AS AN ILLUSTRATION ALSO BUT FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. I'VE
TAUGHT ON SUFFERING. I CALLED IT A THEOLOGY OF SUFFERING AND I
BELIEVE THE THREE THINGS THAT GOD HAS IN MIND WHEN HE ALLOWS
US TO GO THROUGH PERIODS OF PAIN AND SUFFERING AND AFFLICTION AND
TESTING AND SO FORTH ARE OUTLINED IN ROMANS 5: 3-5 AND SO
FORTH. BUT ANYWAY THERE IS THE STORY OF THE MONARCH BUTTERFLY
AND TO BE BORN OR TO COME OUT OF THAT COCOON THEY HAVE TO GO
THROUGH A VERY VERY VERY NARROW PASSAGE OKAY. AND SO SOME PEOPLE
WERE WATCHING THIS PROCESS AND THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO
FIND A WAY TO HELP THE BUTTERFLY OUT. AND SO THEY SLIT THE
PASSAGE AND LET THEM OUT EASIER AND THEY HAD NO WINGS TO FLY
BECAUSE THAT NARROW PASSAGE IS WHAT PUSHES THE FLUID INTO THEIR
WINGS THAT WILL ENABLE THEM TO FLY WHEN THEY EMERGE FROM THAT
COCOON. JUST LIKE WHEN WE GO THROUGH NARROW PASSAGES IN LIFE
GOD IS DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN OUR LIVES. IT'S PERFORMING A
PURPOSE. IT'S GROWING US IN HIM AS IT WERE WITH THAT
PERSEVERANCE, THOSE CHARACTEROLOGICAL CHANGES AND
THAT HOPE THAT WE'RE TOLD ABOUT IN ROMANS.
>YES THAT'S BEAUTIFUL. I MEAN THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SO FEW
PEOPLE GRASP. IT IS IN THE CAULDRON OF ADVERSITY AND PAIN
THAT GOD FORGES US INTO USABLE INSTRUMENTS FOR HIS KINGDOM. AND
THE BIBLE NEVER EXPLAINS WHY, IT DOESN'T ANSWER THE WHY QUESTION
BUT IT TEACHES US TO TRUST GOD IN THE MIDST OF OUR WILES. SO
YOU TALKED ABOUT LOSING YOUR HUSBAND. I LOST MY FATHER. WE
LOST A PRE-BORN CHILD. WE LOST A GRANDSON. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
THE DEATH AND THE HORROR OF DEATH AND SEPARATION YOU WANT TO
IMMEDIATELY ASK WHY DID THAT HAPPEN. BUT THE BIBLE AGAIN
DOESN'T ANSWER THE WHY QUESTION AS MUCH AS IT TEACHES US TO
TRUST GOD IN THE MIDST OF OUR WILES. EVEN IN PAIN AND
SUFFERING AS YOU POINT OUT SO ELOQUENTLY HAS A PURPOSE.
>AND JOB FINALLY LEARNED THAT ALTHOUGH HE TOOK HIS OWN TIME
AND HE HAD A HARD TIME WITH IT ALL TO START WITH. BUT IT SAYS
THE LATTER END WAS BETTER THAN THE BEGINNING AND THAT'S ALWAYS
GOOD TO REMEMBER ISN'T IT?
>OH ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT JOB, GOD THUNDERS
BACK THROUGH THE STORM AND SAYS TO JOB WHO IS ASKING THE WHY
QUESTION, YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW I CREATE A TINY DROP OF DEW.
HOW CAN YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE HEAVENLIES. AND SO THE
TAKE AWAY FROM ALL OF THAT IS JOB REPENTING AND RECOGNIZING
YES THOUGH YOU SLAY ME YET WILL I TRUST IN YOU.
>I THINK IT'S SO FUNNY. IN FACT I DID A PAPER, A COUNSELING
PAPER ON JOB AS I WAS DOING MY DOCTORATE AT TRINITY AND I HAD
DR. GLEASON ARCHER. CAN YOU IMAGINE HAVING HIM FOR A
PROFESSOR? AND HE GAVE ME GOOD MARKS BY THE WAY AND THEY SAID
YOU CAN'T GET GOOD GRADES FROM GLEASON HE'S TOO HARD AND THAT
SORT OF STUFF. BUT I CAME OUT OKAY WITH IT. BUT WHAT I GET A
CHUCKLE OUT OF JOB SAYING IF I COULD ONLY SPEAK TO YOU GOD, IF
I COULD ONLY SPEAK TO YOU I COULD GET THIS WHOLE MESS
STRAIGHTENED OUT YOU KNOW. THEN GOD SUDDENLY APPEARS. HE SAID
JOB WHEN DID I NEED YOU? YOU KNOW WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I MADE
THIS GREAT FISH IN THE OCEAN? WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I PUT THE
STARS IN THE SKY? WHERE WERE YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT IS IT THAT I
NEEDED YOU FOR JOB? AND THEN HE CHANGED IN HIS INTERACTION. BUT
HE DID TELL JOB EARLY ON WHICH I LIKED, HE SAID OKAY JOB HERE I
AM STAND UP AND TALK TO ME LIKE A MAN.
>YES.
>MAN-TO-MAN.
>YES, YES. YES THE BOOK OF JOB IS A WONDERFUL MICROCOSM OF LIFE
AND OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. I MEAN THE ULTIMATE THING THAT WE
ARE CREATED FOR IS TO RELATE TO THE ONE WHO LETS US KNOW THAT
THERE IS NOT A SINGLE HAIR THAT FALLS FROM OUR HEAD THAT HE
DOESN'T CARE ABOUT. SO HE'S INTIMATELY INVESTED IN EVERY
DETAIL OF OUR LIVES AND THE BEAUTIFUL STORY OF CHRISTIANITY
IS THAT CHRIST WOULD SUFFER MORE THAN ANY MAN WOULD IN THE
SUFFERINGS OF ALL OF HUMANITY COLLECTIVELY SO THAT WE COULD BE
RECONCILED TO OUR CREATOR NOT ONLY IN TIME BUT ALSO FOR ALL
ETERNITY.
>BEAUTIFUL JUST BEAUTIFUL AND SOMETIMES OVERWHELMING. IN MY
DEVOTIONALS AS I'M SPENDING TIME WITH THE LORD SOMETIMES I AM
JUST TOTALLY OVERWHELMED WITH THE SACRIFICE OF CHRIST. YOU
KNOW AND HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO DO IT FOR ME IF I HAD BEEN JUST THE
ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD THAT NEEDED IT IT WOULD'VE HAD TO BE
DONE FOR ME TO HAVE THE HOPE.
>IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE. IT'S ABOUT
GIVING US LIFE IN THE PRESENT. CHRIST CAME TO GIVE US LIFE AND
TO GIVE IT MORE ABUNDANTLY SO THAT WE CAN EXPERIENCE CHRIST
NOW. WE CAN EXPERIENCE LIFE. SO IT'S NOT JUST DOCTRINE THAT
MATTERS ITS LIFE AND DOCTRINE. THAT'S WHAT PAUL SAID TO
TIMOTHY; WATCH YOUR LIFE AND DOCTRINE CLOSELY. PERSEVERE IN
THEM BECAUSE IF YOU DO YOU'LL SAVE BOTH YOURSELF AND YOUR
HEIRS.
>I LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU
ABOUT THAT. AFTER I FINISHED STUDYING AND PREPARING AND
READING YOUR BOOK AND THAT SORT OF STUFF I KIND OF THOUGHT YOU
KNOW WHY SHOULD WE EVER WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING? WHAT DOES IT
AMOUNT TO ANYWAY WHEN YOU KNOW EVERYTHING IS WRAPPED UP AND WE
GET TO BE WITH THE LORD FOREVER? SO WHAT IS LIFE ABOUT HANK?
>WELL LIFE IN THE PRESENT IS ABOUT EXPERIENCING GOD. IT IS
ABOUT EXERCISING THOSE DISCIPLINES THAT JESUS CHRIST
MODELED DURING HIS EARTHLY SOJOURN. THINK ABOUT THIS, DR.
LUKE SAYS THAT JESUS OFTEN WITHDREW TO LONELY PLACES AND
PRAYED. WHY DID HE DO THAT? BECAUSE HE TREASURED FELLOWSHIP
WITH HIS HEAVENLY FATHER AND IT'S THE VERY THING THAT YOU'RE
ALLUDING TO. WHEN YOU ARE HAVING YOUR DEVOTIONS YOU WERE IN AWE
EXPERIENCING CHRIST AND THAT IS ULTIMATELY THE END OF HUMANITY
TO EXPERIENCE OUR CREATOR.
>YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE STAYING WITH YOUR BOOK OR
NOT. WE'RE GETTING INTO SO MUCH BUT I'VE GOT TO SHARE SOME
THINGS WITH OUR VIEWERS BUT I WANT TO COME BACK, I WANT TO
COME BACK TO HEAVEN AND WE TALKED JUST BRIEFLY ABOUT WHERE
WE GO WHEN WE DIE. WE GO IMMEDIATELY, AND I WANT TO LEAVE
THIS THOUGHT FOR THIS WEEK WITH OUR VIEWERS. WE GO IMMEDIATELY
TO BE WITH THE LORD. IT'S JUST NOT IN HEAVEN IS IT?
>WELL HEAVEN IS BOTH A PERSON AND A PLACE. SO IT IS IN HEAVEN
IN THE SENSE THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING GOD BUT IN TERMS OF
THE RESTORED UNIVERSE THAT'S SOMETHING WE STILL LONG FOR AND
LOOK FORWARD TO.
>SO IS THIS A PLACE THOUGH IS IT A REAL PLACE THAT WE GO TO OR IS
IT A SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE?
>WELL DISEMBODIED THE SOUL IS WITH THE LORD AND SOULS DO NOT
HAVE AWARENESS BUT THEY HAVE AWARENESS SO THEY DON'T HAVE
EXTENSION IN SPACE BUT AS PAUL SAYS WE'RE IN A DISEMBODIED
STATE. ABSENT FROM THE BODY PRESENT WITH THE LORD AND WE'RE
AWAITING THE GREATEST OF EVENTUALITIES WHEN JESUS RETURNS
AND THE SOUL RETURNS TO THE BODY AND THEN WE WILL AGAIN BE NOT
ONLY WITH GOD IN THE SENSE OF A PERSON BUT THEN IN THE SENSE OF
A PLACE AS WELL.
>YOU ANSWERED THAT QUESTION RATHER WELL NOT KNOWING THAT I
WOULD ASK SUCH A QUESTION AS THAT SO I'M GOING TO TURN TO MY
VIEWERS AND THEN WE'LL DO A SECOND SHOW FOR NEXT WEEK FOR
THEM. AND I HAVE ONE THAT A VIEWER HAS WRITTEN.
> AND BE ASSURED WE HAVE PRAYED FOR YOU AND WE DO EVERYONE AND
EVERY PRAYER REQUEST THAT COMES IN TO TIME FOR HOPE. AND THEN I
HAVE A NOTE OF ENCOURAGEMENT.
>AND I GREATLY APPRECIATE THAT. THERE'S A LOT OF WORK. I HAVE A
GREAT STAFF AND THE LORD PROVIDES. SO I'M THANKFUL ALSO
FOR HAVING TIME FOR HOPE ON THE AIR.
> FOR A DONATION OF ANY AMOUNT, YOU CAN GET A COPY OF TODAY'S
BOOK. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON YOUR SCREEN. THANKS FOR WATCHING
TIME FOR HOPE. .