Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
during these ben shapiro he's bright barton news editor at large also author
of the new book bullies how the left's culture of fear and intimidation
silences
america so that by side your recent appearance with piers morgan it was very
very entertaining i think you did way better than alex jones did
uh... i'm hoping though that we can have really kind of a productive conversation
and we have
uh... what were the same age we've similar backgrounds both have families
with ties to the holocaust and and peace in europe
politically we are very very different but that being said
i would love to see if we can get any kind of consensus on assuming that were
both kind of in good faith
really have the goal of reducing the number of people killed by guns in the
u_s_ which i believe that you do and i i know speaking for myself that i do
can we come to some kind of consensus about really what would help
putting aside whether those solutions would fall under democratic or
republican ideas so
but we have popescu
but let me start i think that is what do you think really is the cause of
gun violence in this country i mean is it
is it execution is it
the wrong people having guns is it too many guns is it not enough guns as some
people have said is that liberals i mean what is the problem
no on adding the problem is uh... is culture do you what what you see is a
vast where i d o uh...
differences become laws and got back to new hampshire has virtually no them
ozzie as well as the balance crime rate nation
uh... chicago obviously has tremendously heavy gun laws and has one of the
highest gun violence origination more people
were killed in chicago by handguns last year
i've never told in afghanistan among coalition troops last year so
yeah i think that
did the bottom line is this a comes down to culture and how do we inculcate a
culture that
and that billy u
takes violent seriously and uh... intakes gun ownership seriously and you
know that that may mean tailored solutions for
for different for different cultural backgrounds but it stated that seems to
me that the you will read the problem arising fastening allah's is we want but
the truth is this
young britain has a lot of gun laws on the books that five times are violent
crime rates out if we really want and not just
non-violence but
violence violence then that's gonna take adjusting culture more generally u_n_
deal would part of what you're saying i completely agree with him you look at
switzerland i think so it's a bit is a good example where we actually have
uh... uh... government provided guns with a lot of training
and uh... affords uh... people who live in switzerland the guns are then kept in
people's homes there's tons of guns in switzerland
but you don't actually
have of much gun crime at also i think the problem is that or not actually
against whether i'm for or against guns in the abstract i think is less relevant
for whatever reason
americans are committing
violence with guns and that's really i think the problem we have to focus on
right now
all americans i mean i think that we we have to distinguish between groups do
you say you know all of america has a gun violence problem but it's also not
true radiohead trooper monty not have it done by a his problem chicago does have
a gun violence problem
the washington d_c_ has a gun violence problem big a big cities
on that they're heavily populated
across the united states and they have much more of a gun problem then more
rural areas unit the gun ownership rate is higher in the rural areas so
we have to be looking at
solutions that will actually work in in the truth is that broadly tailored
selenium teenage possible is a different solution for chicago than there is for
for montana but i think they've been will we have to be as careful in
meticulous in crafting solutions we can so my concern when he said that before
was we may need to craft solutions that are tailored for each culture
it starts the border that could be interpreted as saying
it needs to be determined by race potentially i mean along what lines
explain more cuz i don't want you to be accused of that that's not what you mean
yeah i know this has nothing to do it race this has to do it
uh... profile ping really young men between the ages of all races between
the ages about sixteen twenty five
in on it into that most of the gun violence in this country
is committed by young men age sixteen to twenty five
uh... men who come from
predominantly single mother backgrounds uh... who have poor levels of education
uh... who grew up in poverty doesn't need those would be good weighing
factors mo we have to do is we have to create a culture
with strong miguel role models a culture where people have the opportunity to get
out of poverty on an accord sure honestly we need we need to jail more
criminals and in one of the one of the biggest problems that we see is that
if you keep criminals off the streets and they can't be out
committing crimes and she recidivism and and you know criminals committing
multiple crimes it'll take a look it up there for a second is that i'm glad
you're getting to the jail thing 'cause i think this is a big factor
specifically what types of of criminals do you want the jail cuz i actually
think that
a lot of the problem mate maybe you're talking about different criminals than
that i'm thinking of but i think the drug war is a big factor here i think
the fact that we have
uh... this criminalization of of even marijuana in many cases which is
creating dangerous situations if we had marijuana for example which i'm i'm
idon't i don't smoke we are not doubt that this is not a personal thing for me
but it's i think that if we eliminated the the entire culture that surrounded
by marijuana being something that's illegal
we would eliminate a ton of gun crime
uh... i mean i think i mean there any truth to that time and i'm actually very
torn on unglued marijuana legislation bs i i don't think that it's been affected
and i don't think that it's effectively enforce
i do tend to think of the folks who are committing criminal acts
will find air will find another market shall we say it with uh... with illegal
substances uh...
that world we know that that will allow them
in dat their bats that there at their most marketable attributes which in this
case seems to be violence and
and uh... a legal activity and then they apply to some but the vast majority of
people who at least our purchasing marijuana
uh... maybe that apply to some of the dealers but you know a lot of these
gunfights that start from people buying drugs that'll go away i think
blow up most of them so i mean a lot of those gun sights they're starting from
buying drugs are the right people who are in a training when you're talking
about the norm marijuana user which is really what you're talking about here
uh... in drug dealers
are not folks who we need to find a way to let off the hook i think that drug
users may be and i know that's a that's a whole different discussion at
uh... they were talking about the government's sanctioning and regulating
those drug dealers right
i don't know what
and he made that the question is what happens in a drug dealer regularly
adam thing they're gonna come pharmacist so they'll back to the thing which is
which crew which criminals do you want to put in jail because i think jail
population been completely blown up as part of the problem here
on sat disagree i think the easiest way to keep criminals from committing crimes
not have been in the general population sup
anybody is convicted of a violent crime she spent a long and present out last
time i mean the state of california there's this crazy case that happened
uh... a few weeks back where that was let out of prison
uh... based on a an old *** long covered area
his original sentence for *** was three years in units insanity is serving three
years for a *** is craziness siri with that okay
it battle crime needs to be we we need more police force and you have your
police forces and we need a we need more police presence indian tribe mary as you
were to in order to really have
you know allow presence in in crime heavy neighborhoods
all of that happened as far as above the but what i like about the state and i
appreciate it was they were having
about discussion about the crime areas
where we're not having about discussion about
what has to happen if three hundred million americans in order to make sure
that we don't see any hook
we're having a special on having a hard at the folks who responsible for things
like sandy hook or like the gun violence in chicago and that area i and i got a
great with you having this conversation but i think if we are talking about gun
violence
we can't ignore
the specifics of guns so i would love to get you to comment on that a little bit
and i think we agree on one thing which is
uh... assault-weapons bans are not the solution particularly simply because of
the fact that it's mostly handguns when we talk about by the homicides over a
year
that are
uh... leading to death now u_s_ piers morgan why don't you just say you want a
ban all handguns
and he was reticent to do that and whatever reasons he had i don't know but
asking you when should anything happen with guns should there be more guns less
guns what do we do about the gun specifically
well organs in the hands of people who are responsible and less comes an act of
people are a responsible so that's why i said on the show and i'm in favor
background checks i have no problem with background checks in
i don't need a generally speaking i don't have a problem with the idea that
you have to be trained only done so you actually know what you do it that bad
and i don't but electing these are all things that i don't see as significantly
burdensome
uh... to to obtaining and i know i understand the argument of people i come
up with him and friends
uh... that
creating more barriers means that it's a longer time between when you can apply
for an eye when you when you can get in in many cases you don't have that much
time
on by the recipient let me stop there though
if you're really in a situation
we're having to wait but weaker to to get a gun
is specifically putting your life in danger
you should really be in touch with law enforcement i don't think that that's a
legitimate cook thing
uh... you know i i think there
let's go this way i think there are exceptions to that rule backing
generally that's correct i don't think law enforcement can can do everything
now so i'm
i'm more sympathetic to it than you are but i understand your argument and i i'd
sort of agree with that
okay so then let's get to the to the other aspect which is i think where you
started to lose some people when you were talking to piers morgan
is when we go into this issue of
to defend ourselves from uh... from the government which may become tyrannical
understand that in a theoretical world this is possible but i think you lose a
lot of people with when you go into that argument that doesn't appeal
to as many people as i've respect the second amendment
isleye agreed there but the problem is this
and this is this is really the fundamental issue this is why i went
there with peers
i think it is very very very important
that when we say that we support the second i know we understand why would
support it and people on the lab
any of that and doesn't have to upgrade issue but
folks are pro gun control
the they say they support the second member then they can explain why they
don't want a blanket gun ban he saw that with peers that he he wouldn't come out
in favor of a blanket handgun ban o every justification
if you use
four you know banning for example a ar-fifteens is doubly true with regard
handouts
on but he wasn't talking about that and so
you know what all i want from the left is a coat it like i don't live it and
the second amendment
i really do like i i do descended on the basis that the founders defended it
which is then on the population is the best guarantee against against tyranny
you know if you don't agree with that
then i think that it's it's important fern people it this a year seconds
manifest as second amendment
if you like the action now behind
and second i know why is it good for people to own guns because
internet in show after i left
imitated it if you had his druthers
he would get rid of all guns on american soil
yet the only thing is that the skull justice antonin scalia has set a lot of
the same things that piers morgan has has said i think that we get into what
we get a little modeled when we talk about
exactly what the founders intended because let's be honest everything was
very different when the founders wrote
that second amendment so i don't know that just saying
we have um... i don't i don't like the focus on the commas in the second
amendment assistant to speak
over i did not handle extraditing to the second amendment is largely about human
nature and the fact is that we have seen journey on american soil
i mean we had we had a hundred twenty thousand japanese folks who are in
prison during world war two reagent crimestoppers under tears
they had slavery in this country for for it
eighty years after they have to be declaration of independence l
uh... you know i i think that it's
it's a mistake
to imagine a democracy that the best guarantee it really endangering the
second amendment so dot com is the second amendment very clear on why
experiment
it it says oh well-regulated militia being necessary to the preservation of
rick
estate and that's and that is the point the free state is the point is the u_n_
and welcome that question that evp three-person age sixty two forty five
nineteen u_s_ code will draw the line on what specifically in terms of arms and
weapons are are allowed in other words
my interpretation in this may be and this may be not nuanced enough i say if
it was really if we have been a kind of two options in my mind either
it applies
to the weapons that were available when the second amendment was written
their absolutely no restrictions in this goes to shoulder mounted are pgs n
everything and let me just finish my thought here
if we are able to draw a line somewhere
the lines that the n_r_a_ wants to draw are known
more or less legitimate than the lines president obama or dianne feinstein they
want to drop
with that and the reason i disagree with that is because i think you can draw
lines based on the principle now and then the second amendment was not
written for ma skits
it was it in and proof is in the pudding if they say if we if we're going to be
that literal about the uh... uh... about the second amendment and and in this
segment his arms dozens in moscow its uh... if we if we're going to assume
that adjustment stuff that happened at the time the piers morgan has a right to
be on t_v_ because there were no t_v_s in
in seventeen eighty nine
uh... end of the people of the press doesn't use a printing press so i mean
as long as we're gonna go there remains will go all the way and so then i will
be limited are pgs or nuclear arms those arms right
well they're they're not but actually did a if you look at the second
amendment the second amendment doesn't guarantee rates are warship
rate doesn't guarantee a right on it
uni even better hold on a second one of the maintenance of those who were
constitutionalist is that
the constitution only says what you can't do and the second amendment
doesn't say you can't own warship
no e correct
second-amendment
and better that that that is true the second than it does negative that right
so in other words if not actually wrong on that
it prevents the government
from infringing in it
areas where it says he can't in french
so it is so that is actually the this is this is the argument that bill of rights
at the time action a bill of rights a kind of different from the rest of the
constitution and that they car guy areas
but the government cannot go
that's why there is argument
app at the bill of rights to the constitution is a document
of negative liberties with the bill of rights is is also a document negative
liberties but a cars out actual spaces
where government can't go that's wide the any notices why there is the data
from the federalists and anti federalists yantai perilous said there's
no point to a bill of rights actually infringes our liberty
because it says the government that it can go all these other areas
the second amendment set when it says that you can be in the right-wing
keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
it also
it died as a first on second amendment
applies to give the federal government not to state
uh... bags in and that is a huge thing that has been overlooked in
constitutional history
uh... but even assuming that applies to the states
the fact is that the state has always had a man always did have the ability to
prevent private citizens running can and i mean there are the relies on the books
when the constitution was written in preventing people from owning certain
types of weapons argument you're making that was actually
that the second amendment does not prevent anybody from owning warships but
it's the state superseding vat bill of rights that that would propel loud and
to prevent someone from owning a warship it's getting a little modeled right
it is not going that's that's correct the second and it doesn't prevent you
from doing anything
and in the first amendment doesn't bring you from doing anything they were ok
with the state's drawing the lines on what guns you can have but not the
federal government
it is a restriction on government
brennan's second i mean is is not cream there's a restriction on individual it's
not a lot about what guns you can cannot alone it's restriction of what's taken
gail
elaine says that the state can do
is it says it isn't state is not allowed to infringe your right to bear arms now
the question becomes what is the definition are
straighten my analogy aa
i think most likely this is interesting because we could try go on twenty more
minutes and we pride wouldn't come to an agreement on this
but i think this is really we were doing fine agreeing on a lot of stuff until we
got to this and i think this is where a lot of people are are getting lost also
uh... i think
so it's very simple argument from our point of view and that is
the people if they have the right to bear arms arts pronounce your name
at goes for arms to prevent ciated that goes to the the diya all to limit of
that
is the arms necessary to prevent didn't basically condone any harm
that is necessary too
necessary
not running into to prevent tierney listening because in waco texas the win
waco texas
in waco texas the government use
tanks isn't it then reasonable to say people need tanks because they were used
in waco texas
businesses the balance that we draw
retina today this is true for all legislation totally subjective though
ben
i was injected the fact is that if you did you desire a population of rifles
there's no chance there could be a popular resistance to tear area
and i think you only give them rifles and the tanks roll out the rifles are
useless
for as it is just not rainier spoken seemed to veterans apple or college
uh... who told we've done studies
of what would happen case an armed inspection in united states of the
american population is on its own automatic rifles
he army cannot handle than alcott *** ever come to that point obviously i
don't think at that point now
but did but the argument that you need tanks are trees just journey
is not true and obviously the the menace
uh... to public safety provided
by tanks is significantly higher than the menace provided by semi-automatic
right
which as you said
is not really the main attn gun violence anyway
all right well i think on this issue i think it's a fascinating discussion
obviously were not going to agree but hopefully the audience will be able to
get some interesting stuff from this effort in this discussion
we've been speaking with ben shapiro bright barton news editor at large the
book is bullies how the left's culture of fear and intimidation silences
america
then really great to have you want a bill to have you back again